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Is there a statute of limitations on spoilers?

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One problem with spoiler culture is that some people only consume products made within their lifetimes that take less that 220 minutes to consume, and lack the perspective to see how knowing what is going to happen while you go through 1500 pages may be annoying. So we make rules for summer blockbusters and assume they can apply to more than that.
 

Pluto

Member
we had this same thread when the hobbit movies were coming out. Martin Freeman spoiled the ending in an interview which he thought was fair game since the books are so old.
He was right, the book was 85 years old when the first Hobbit movie was released, it doesn't matter if the movies bring in new audiences, the story itself is old as fuck and those who don't know it by now obviously don't care that much about it.

Sorry OP but your goof was the timing of the remaster. Sure people should expect spoilers to be discussed after a reasonable time but they also, reasonably, expect you to move back into avoiding spoilers during period of re-release.
I disagree, just because something is re-released or remade doesn't mean it's not an old story. I don't think going into a thread about the re-release and talking about the ending is fair but generally spoiler rules shouldn't apply.
 

EGM1966

Member
He was right, the book was 85 years old when the first Hobbit movie was released, it doesn't matter if the movies bring in new audiences, the story itself is old as fuck and those who don't know it by now obviously don't care that much about it.


I disagree, just because something is re-released or remade doesn't mean it's not an old story. I don't think going into a thread about the re-release and talking about the ending is fair but generally spoiler rules shouldn't apply.

Of course you can disagree. You're still gonna get chewed out about it no matter how old it is. When the context is people are paying money right now they're going to treat it as a new purchase no matter how old the content.

If someone buys an old classic film on BR they don't know the plot of and I go "hey that's a great classic I love..." and then spoil the ending they're not going to be happy.

Sorry but disagreeing when the facts are obvious doesn't change anything.

Sure you could argue they should avoid spoilers then, and I'd somewhat agree, but there's no clear guidance on this so its fair to assume everyone should be sensitive.

You just want a definite "I did no wrong" and that's not the case.
 

Moonkid

Member
No. There is plenty of old media I haven't got around to consuming yet. I don't want to know any details of Anna Karenina, 12 Angry Men or Planescape: Torment.
Pretty much. And like Correctomundo illustrated, it's up to context. The age of something always struck me as an arbitrary metric when it comes to spoilers. It's not irrelevant altogether, but there are other factors to keep in mind beforehand.
 

danm999

Member
There has to be a balance.

Obviously be mindful of spoiling people. Don't try and do it on purpose and try to communicate meaning in a way that at least gives people the ability to opt out if they haven't consumed a piece of media yet and intend to (like maybe not in a thread title for instance).

On the other hand, policing yourself like that everywhere, all the time, in a way that both protects people from spoilers and also allows you to convey meaning is extremely difficult and maybe people should accept if they wait almost a decade to try something out they can't be that indignant. The Hobbit example with Martin Freeman jumps to mind.
 
You know what is weird? Spoilers for media based on real life events. As someone who watched Rush with a person who did not know who Niki Lauda was I find the topic rather interesting, because I know she experience an additional level of enjoyment that I could only try to imagine at the moment.
 

kaizoku

I'm not as deluded as I make myself out to be
Why should there be? Everyone who comes to an experience should ideally be able to experience it as if you did your first time.

Some spoilers transcend media and become pop culture phenomenons that you cant avoid.

But I read LOTR with no idea what was gonna happen, who would live or die, and it was brilliant. Just think if none of us had that chance cos it was too old. If someone told you the ending you'd be like..oh....no point trawling through 3 giant books for it then.
 
It doesn't matter to me, actually. I mean, one of my many pastimes when I'm bored is look up plots of games I haven't played, like Final Fantasy 7. Yes yes, it's terrible and I should turn in my gamer card, but eh. I forget anyways about the details so it's no biggie.
 

Boney

Banned
Spoilers in a title of a thread is a dick move no matter what. It can easily be worked around and the reader will have a choice on going into the thread or not.

So yeah dick move
 

MattKeil

BIGTIME TV MOGUL #2
No. There is plenty of old media I haven't got around to consuming yet. I don't want to know any details of Anna Karenina, 12 Angry Men or Planescape: Torment.

That is nobody's problem but your own. Sure, if someone finds out you want to read something and just tells you the big twist, that's a dick move, but at the same time I am routinely amazed at how many people who want to know Absolutely Nothing™ about something pop up in every damn thread about that something they can click on.
 

kaizoku

I'm not as deluded as I make myself out to be
He was right, the book was 85 years old when the first Hobbit movie was released, it doesn't matter if the movies bring in new audiences, the story itself is old as fuck and those who don't know it by now obviously don't care that much about it.


I disagree, just because something is re-released or remade doesn't mean it's not an old story. I don't think going into a thread about the re-release and talking about the ending is fair but generally spoiler rules shouldn't apply.

What? Literally everything you've ever consumed had a first time. I'm assuming you read The Hobbit sometime in the past 15-30 years (and didnt get spoiled beforehand). Someone's 30 years ago is no different to someone else's 3 days ago.

If spoilers were just out there for the past 65 years your first experience of the hobbit wouldve been different.
 

Hazmat

Member
Spoilers in a title of a thread is a dick move no matter what. It can easily be worked around and the reader will have a choice on going into the thread or not.

So yeah dick move

Yeah, spoilers in a thread title are a pretty bad idea no matter how old they are. If there was an unrelated conversation and the OP dropped a Bioshock spoiler in it then he has a leg to stand on. Having a forum thread title drop a spoiler for a game that just got a remaster is not cool. Remasters get released because most people won't go back and play old games, so there are lots of new players.
 

MattKeil

BIGTIME TV MOGUL #2
Spoilers for the Hobbit have been "just out there." Hell, you already know Bilbo makes it back home in the end just because he's around in LotR, and even if you didn't see LotR, he's running around as an old version of himself at the very beginning of the first movie.

Some things are just cultural touchstones. Nobody on the planet needs to check themselves before making a "Luke, I am your father" reference. BioShock isn't in that weight class from a pop culture standpoint, but in gaming itself, I have no idea how someone even mildly plugged into the culture would have avoided the major plot points over the last 9 years. It would be like managing to avoid cake jokes related to Portal.

That said, putting it in the title? Bad form, at the very least.
 
Well, Bioshock just got an HD remaster so it's reasonable to assume a lot of people will be experiencing it for the first time, so I can understand someone being pissed off at that. Plus, putting the spoiler in the topic title is always a dick move, because it gives people no way to avoid accidentally reading it even if they don't want to. So sorry OP, but I think you're absolutely in the wrong here.
 

RibMan

Member
I just got chewed out on another site (won't say which)
it was reddit
over posting spoilers in the topic title about the original Bioshock, a fucking 9 year old game. I'll be first the first to say I don't like spoilers, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect this kind of thing to be relaxed after at least a year. Hell, with something big like The Force Awakens, I think six months is more than reasonable. If you haven't played the game by now, I don't give a shit. I'm going to talk about it, and I'm not going to tip toe around late comers.

I agree that at times, it sucks to have to tip toe around stuff that came out a long time ago. However, I think it's reasonable to just put the word "Spoiler" or "Possible spoilers" in the title.

I guess what I'm saying is, if you let people know that there will be spoilers, then they can't get upset when you spoil something. I think it's less about trying to please the few, and more about just letting people know in advance that you're going to talk about something in great detail.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
The funniest thing about spoiler police is when they spoil things by revealing something is a spoiler with their complaint.

And comparing Bioshock to Citizen Kane of all things is lolworthy.
 

Bishop89

Member
That is nobody's problem but your own. Sure, if someone finds out you want to read something and just tells you the big twist, that's a dick move, but at the same time I am routinely amazed at how many people who want to know Absolutely Nothing™ about something pop up in every damn thread about that something they can click on.

this drives me nuts
 

danm999

Member
What? Literally everything you've ever consumed had a first time. I'm assuming you read The Hobbit sometime in the past 15-30 years (and didnt get spoiled beforehand). Someone's 30 years ago is no different to someone else's 3 days ago.

If spoilers were just out there for the past 65 years your first experience of the hobbit wouldve been different.

You know, they really have been given Lord of the Rings was written 62 years ago. Lots of people in the past 15-30 years would no doubt have been spoilered on the events of the Hobbit by the much more prominent Lord of the Rings books and films.

It's sort of why the expectation everybody be kept safe from spoilers naturally dies at a certain point. Sequels happen. Satire and humour happens. Homage and ripoffs happen. Reboots happen.

The zeitgeist of 1937 and 2016 are vastly different. Yeah it'd be nice if we could sequester information like that but expecting the particulars of one of the seminal fantasy stories to be kept sancrosanct forever is just not feasible.
 

Cindres

Vied for a tag related to cocks, so here it is.
Normally I'd probably agree with you but not in this case, it's been said but the game just got a re release so obviously there are going to be first timers to it, spoiler tag things or don't post spoilers.
 

Pluto

Member
What? Literally everything you've ever consumed had a first time. I'm assuming you read The Hobbit sometime in the past 15-30 years (and didnt get spoiled beforehand).
Actually, I did get spoiled, I read Lord of the Rings first. So I knew how Bilbo got the ring (more or less) and that he survived his adventure and returned home. If I had been spoiled more, then so what? The novels were already decades old and I cannot and will not expect that people don't talk about old stories just because dorky 16 year old me hasn't read them yet.

Of course no one should spoil people on purpose, if I know someone's reading The Hobbit for the first time I won't tell but if I talk about the hobbit with someone else don't expect time to hold back.

I talked to a friend about Game of Thrones some time ago and a woman at another table started complaining that we had spoiled her as if I cared. It's not my problem if she listens in on other people's conversations.

Of course some people will experience something for the first time all the time. But with that line of thinking we could never openly talk about anything.
 

Ishan

Junior Member
Discussion is one thing, but the OP put the spoiler in the thread subject line on a group that might just be attracting a bunch of new users because of a release of a game that's nine years old. I doubt anyone would bust too many guts if he mentioned it in an overall discussion of the game or anything, but the place for dropping spoilers isn't in the one field of a forum post which is openly exposed to casual users.

(And, as a gaming forum, I seriously think people are overestimating the reach that any of the events in Bioshock have had in a broader cultural sense. It's not actually that well known a thing)

Yes makes sense I'm not a regular reditter so I assume of this was one of the hot topics which floats to the topic I can completely
Get how a spoiler comment can affect new ppl

One problem with spoiler culture is that some people only consume products made within their lifetimes that take less that 220 minutes to consume, and lack the perspective to see how knowing what is going to happen while you go through 1500 pages may be annoying. So we make rules for summer blockbusters and assume they can apply to more than that.

(Dude reason as person above you're sounding more and more elitist)

You know what is weird? Spoilers for media based on real life events. As someone who watched Rush with a person who did not know who Niki Lauda was I find the topic rather interesting, because I know she experience an additional level of enjoyment that I could only try to imagine at the moment.

That movie is about competition and the differing approaches to it not lauda . You can do just as well substitute senna Schumacher with actually higher stakes frankly. The movie is a work of reality plus fiction anyway .
 

-Silver-

Member
Context is quite important. If someone mentions they are a first time player, and their asking for advice, you should avoid spoilers if possible. However, if you're discussing with someone in general and someone jumps in to listen and is still hanging around after they realise what you're talking about, why doe it matter?
 

ghostjoke

Banned
Considering the remaster just came out, causing a surge of interest of newcomers, you deserve a good chewing out. And your last line sounds incredibly self-centred, as if everyone should have the exact same experiences and it's their fault they haven't gotten round to something. Normally I wouldn't care too much, but your attitude towards this is deserving a a verbal smack. Have some common courtesy, it's not that hard to add a spoiler warning.

I say spoilers are more like how trademarks can become generic. It's not a specific period of time, so much as a general acceptance by the general public consciousness*. Easy cheat sheet would be to see if it was joked about directly in The Simpsons or other major comedies. The spoiler you referenced is one known mostly to people who played through the game and learnt it by playing through the game. It's laughable that you think it's on par with the other two. Side note, I somehow did get to Citizen Kane without any knowledge (even with watching The Simpsons' episode) and while it wasn't the deciding factor my adoration of the film, it was a nice little conclusion that I wouldn't want to take from anyone else if I could help it.

*not everything in a piece of media is a spoiler, but it's not that hard to infer what is and isn't, eg random sword in Dark Souls, not a spoiler, sword named after important character, likely a spoiler to a certain boss or piece of lore, so take the extra second to tag it. I also don't get people who hover around threads of things they're currently going through - you're on the fastlane to spoilers at this point. And spoilers shouldn't ruin a piece a media, but they can damper the enjoyment of them.
 

Tapejara

Member
Over the years I've started to care less and less about spoilers, but my personal rule is to spoiler tag just about everything (excluding the obvious ones like "I Am Your Father"). There's a lot of media out there to consume, and not everyone has the time to do so. Spoiler tagging takes like two seconds and can save a lot of headaches.

This obviously only applies to conversations that take place on forums.
 

Gotchaye

Member
I probably wouldn't have put the spoiler in the title, especially given that there's a recent re-release.

The fact that
Fontaine is still alive
is practically as well known as "I am you father" or "it was his sled".....I'm not going to win this argument am I?

Far fewer people have even heard of Bioshock than can quote "I am your father". I've played some of Bioshock and pay a lot more attention than most people to gaming stuff and I have no idea who that character is.
 

MrBadger

Member
Yeah I don't think any video game stories are on the same level as Star Wars, or even more recent things like Breaking Bad. Unless we're talking about stuff like "Bowser kidnaps the princess". I've not played the first Bioshock and have no interest in playing it or dodging spoilers and the tagged spoiler meant nothing to me.
 

cwmartin

Member
You're probably spoiling the game for kids that were too young to play the original game when it came out. So yeah your a dick
 

Triteon

Member
I dont know why spoilers are such a big deal. I personally can't think of something i felt was ruined because i knew the plot points before i watched/played/read it.

Even things that are twist heavy like fight club which i knew well about well in advance before i were/are still great.

Most good media deals with themes that are worthy of discussion. Bioshocks twist like a lot of good twists is about more than a shock and it should be fine to discuss. Id even go do far to say that its best to discuss this stuff as close to the release as possible for maximum zeitgest impact.

But dont be a dick. If someone tells you they are planning on watching fight club this weekend you dont drop the twist on them for kicks. But if your just talking about say, brad pitt movies and fight club comes up then i think its fine to discuss the plot points of the film, even if someone overhears.

I think the onus is on those who want spoiler free media to put themselves on lockdown. They especially shouldnt go into forums on the subject they are avoiding or partake in conversations that will upset them.
 
You were in the wrong, OP.

The age of material is irrelevant to your ability to diminish suspense, which is the foundation of good storytelling. If people already know what's coming then not only will they likely enjoy it less, they may be more critical of it for not matching expectations you may have built up for him.

Common sense and courtesy go a long way in avoiding diminishing other people's experiences. Simply asking if they've completed something or how far they've gotten helps, and when in doubt just use spoiler tags.
 
What does the age of anything matter? If you are reading for the first time an sherlock holmes book and I spoil the ending
the butler did it
, that should be ok since the book has existed for over a hundred years? how does that make any sense?
 

Fury451

Banned
The remaster did just get released a week ago and that would mean there are many newcomers to the franchise.

This kind of stuff isn't fair though- the twist to System Shock 2 and Bioshock have been brought up in nearly every article discussing the games since the near decade and longer time they've existed now.

Having to micromanage when you have to put spoilers on again because of a re-release or whatever isn't really a fair expectation.

I guess I would say do your best when you can, but people have unreasonable expectations of staying uninformed after something hits the market and becomes famous.
 

Spyware

Member
I'm fascinated that every thread about this always move the topic from "I spoiled a thing openly" to "spoilerphobes are seeking out spoilers and then complaining".
In a thread about putting spoilers in the TITLE people are still coming in and complaining about how folk come into threads where spoilers might be discussed. Did you miss the title thing? The title of a thread in a forum where people that bought the remaster just some day ago might look for info about something.

I also can't figure out how you can call not naming a spoiler in the title "tip-toeing". Just write "I wanna discuss a late game spoiler" and then you can write whatever you want in your post. If people then complain you don't have to care, you gave them a fair warning.
 
I personally give it a month for the "don't say shit" phase to end, and a year for the "tiptoe around it in conversation" phase. After that, it's fair game and honestly if you REALLY cared you would have seen it by then. I'll make exceptions for younger people or people who make it known they are currently in the process (i.e. spoiling later seasons or books when they are working on it) but anyone who gets mad because I casually mentioned the ending to Fight Club or something? Get out of here with that.
 

Alienous

Member
I think it's pretty simple - don't talk openly about spoiler things. 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, a year, it doesn't matter, just pick a different topic (there are plenty).

Otherwise, if you're going to talk spoilers, preface your conversation by saying so.
 

Alienous

Member
The same week something is released. Spoiler culture is shit. Your whole enjoyment of something shouldn't rely on a twist or reveal.

Nor should it rely on someone taking authority over a story moment because they saw it first. "Hey, did you know tha-" shut up. Either I've seen it, I haven't, or I don't care. In all three cases, if you're so lacking in topics to discuss that you need to pilfer a spoilerly section from something you've seen as a conversation catalyst, at least preface your unoriginality and laziness with a "You don't mind if I spoil something in X, do you?".
 

MikeDip

God bless all my old friends/And god bless me too, why pretend?
If you actually want a time limit for your answer, it should be 10 years, with the clause that the time resets whenever a remaster or something similar comes out.
 

RionaaM

Unconfirmed Member
I don't think so, no. Not everyone has consumed the same media as you. No matter the reason, there's a chance they may want to do so in the future, so by spoiling them you'd be potentially ruining their experience. This is common courtesy. You don't lose anything by using spoiler tags or writing considerate thread titles, and the other person gets to avoid reading an undesired story point about some piece of media they haven't consumed yet.

There are times when this isn't the case, and that's when specific spoilers become part of pop culture, like some Star Wars or Final Fantasy VII ones did. But that should be the exception, not the rule.
 

zoukka

Member
Couple of years. A year minimum.

But you should always use spoiler tags when discussing any important plot point in any piece of medium really. Don't be an asshat.
 

Bubba T

Member
If you actually want a time limit for your answer, it should be 10 years, with the clause that the time resets whenever a remaster or something similar comes out.

So I can freely talk spoilers without a preface on Sonic 06 in a couple months? Sweet.
 
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