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Issues with two PS4s running on the same network

B

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
So, here's the deal: I've been having lots of problems with PSN ever since my little brother got his own PS4 and we started running both our consoles under the same network.

I can only use Party Chat on my PS4 sporadically, and we have issues when trying to play games like Destiny together.

I already know that solutions like port forwarding, port triggering and DMZs won't do much.

I was wondering if there's anything I can try short of getting a brand new dedicated connection to one of the PS4s. Would setting static IP addresses to both consoles help in any way?

Thanks :p
 
G

Garrett Hawke

Member
I have this with my SO, made playing Destiny together a nightmare. It helped if one of us was wired and one was wireless, but it was still completely random and sometimes we just had to keep regrouping in party chat until it worked.
 
J

jellies_two

Member
It is probably a upnp conflict: one ps4 grabs ports the other one cannot.

If the function like voice chat uses fixed ports on your public ip you are out of luck. IPv6 would solve it. or get another ip from your isp.

Two ps4s can't play gta5 behind one ip for a similar reason. The network architecture has to be designed to allow it (multiple ports etc) from the start.
 
th4tguy

th4tguy

Member
There really isn't a good solution. Best I've ever been able to do is place one in dmz which gives it type 2 and the other type 3 connection. Short of calling your isp and getting a second dedicated ip, you can only hope to use a router that works better (still with faults) than what you have now.
You'll have this issue with any duplicate systems btw, not just ps4. I struggled hard with my 360s last gen.
 
S

Septimius

Junior Member
Piccoro said:
You should definitely try to put static IP addresses in both consoles.
Click to expand...

This won't do a thing. DHCP-negotionation is a protocol, and two PS4s won't do things differently than one PS4 and one iPhone on the same network.

Does your router have UPnP, OP?
 
L

Lucifon

Junior Member
We also had a nightmare with this, same with the 2 Xbone's in the house. Never really came to a solution. Living with another gamer is frustrating! Luckily for me he spends most his time watching Netflix (although not lucky for me it uses a crazy amount of bandwidth and has caused other networking headaches in terms of performance)
 
B

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
th4tguy said:
There really isn't a good solution. Best I've ever been able to do is place one in dmz which gives it type 2 and the other type 3 connection. Short of calling your isp and getting a second dedicated ip, you can only hope to use a router that works better (still with faults) than what you have now.
You'll have this issue with any duplicate systems btw, not just ps4. I struggled hard with my 360s last gen.
Click to expand...

We actually have two PS3s too and the only game I had any issues with back then was Bulletstorm. I completely understand that some systems and services simply aren't designed to be used like this, though :(

Septimius said:
This won't do a thing. DHCP-negotionation is a protocol, and two PS4s won't do things differently than one PS4 and one iPhone on the same network.

Does your router have UPnP, OP?
Click to expand...

I'm almost sure it does. Gonna check.

Edit: Yuppers.
 
D

DrROBschiz

Member
tapantaola said:
http://community.us.playstation.com...WORK-NEEDS-FIXED-ASAP-Confirmed/td-p/44774137

TL;DR: PS4 UPnP assigns all ports to one console, so a 2nd (or even a 3rd/4th) one is left with no ports.

The only solution is to assign them manually (9305-9308 range, one port per console).

Sony programmers must be really idiotic. :| Then again, Nintendo is even worse...
Click to expand...

Arent there routers available that automatically take care of managing multiple connections suceptible to this issue?
 
M

MikeHaggar

Member
th4tguy said:
There really isn't a good solution. Best I've ever been able to do is place one in dmz which gives it type 2 and the other type 3 connection. Short of calling your isp and getting a second dedicated ip, you can only hope to use a router that works better (still with faults) than what you have now.
You'll have this issue with any duplicate systems btw, not just ps4. I struggled hard with my 360s last gen.
Click to expand...

pretty much. my nephews run into the same problem all of the time. they just keep trying until it works.
 
L

Lalalandia

Member
tapantaola said:
http://community.us.playstation.com...WORK-NEEDS-FIXED-ASAP-Confirmed/td-p/44774137

TL;DR: PS4 UPnP assigns all ports to one console, so a 2nd (or even a 3rd/4th) one is left with no ports.

The only solution is to assign them manually (9305-9308 range, one port per console).

Sony programmers must be really idiotic. :| Then again, Nintendo is even worse...
Click to expand...

Hmmm isn't that the responsibility of the router's UPnP stack to sort out conflicts like these? If this is the case use static IPs to place 1 PS4 in the DMZ (ie outside the NAT) and allow the other to use DHCP and UPnP to cofigure itself.

Not what you want to hear but I've found ISP supplied modem/routers to be so god awful and rarely updated to be not worth the effort, buy your own router (ASUS have been making solid units for a while now) and disable everything on the ISP supplied unit (DHCP, NAT, etc just use it as a WAN modem for your own router). It solved all of my issues with router crashes, weird network issues, odd lag spikes and male pattern baldness (well not that last one ;) ).
 
N

Negotiator

Member
DrROBschiz said:
Arent there routers available that automatically take care of managing multiple connections suceptible to this issue?
Click to expand...
It's not a router issue. It's a PS4 OS issue (bad programming).

If one console needs ONE port, then why the hell do you give it FOUR ports?!

It's like having 4 apples and 4 children to feed. If you give all 4 apples to one kid, then guess what's gonna happen to the other 3?

Also, I don't understand why it's not possible to change game port assignments in the PS4 OS, just like we're able to change input button assignments for all games. Any ideas?
 
B

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
Lalalandia said:
Hmmm isn't that the responsibility of the router's UPnP stack to sort out conflicts like these? If this is the case use static IPs to place 1 PS4 in the DMZ (ie outside the NAT) and allow the other to use DHCP and UPnP to cofigure itself.

Not what you want to hear but I've found ISP supplied modem/routers to be so god awful and rarely updated to be not worth the effort, buy your own router (ASUS have been making solid units for a while now) and disable everything on the ISP supplied unit (DHCP, NAT, etc just use it as a WAN modem for your own router). It solved all of my issues with router crashes, weird network issues, odd lag spikes and male pattern baldness (well not that last one ;) ).
Click to expand...

I'd gladly pick up a new router and throw the one my ISP lent me away. Problem is: cable comes through the same router, and some of those who live with me still watch TV. I can't even put the router in bridge mode - that cuts the cable signal. It's a mess.

As I seem to be out of options, I'm just contemplating picking up a separate internet connection for myself.
 
K

Kor of Memory

Member
Had this problem forever with my wife and I and only got it figured out just recently.

First this you have to accept is you will never have a Type 1 NAT, just isn't going to happen.

I've found that if I added 1 PS4 to the DMZ, then the other PS4 had worse problems, constantly being dropped or kicked from games in Desitny.

Eventually, I got a really nice "gaming router". I tried to avoid it, but it claimed to be able to do everything I needed it to do. When I get home, I'll get the exact make/model for you if you want.

Anyway, I added that router to the DMZ of my modem, and both PS4s are plugged into the gaming router.

Basically, anytime you try to favor 1 PS4 over the other, you're going to screw over the other PS4. So you need them to both have the same setup. This means no port forwarding, basically.

If that isn't clear enough, let me know. I can draw out a network topography of our house, get you make/models of equipment, and share some config stuff.
 
N

Negotiator

Member
tapantaola said:
It's not a router issue. It's a PS4 OS issue (bad programming).

If one console needs ONE port, then why the hell do you give it FOUR ports?!

It's like having 4 apples and 4 children to feed. If you give all 4 apples to one kid, then guess what's gonna happen to the other 3?
Click to expand...
And here's what I'm talking about:

LP0AzVY.png


Thankfully, I only have one PS4 console (192.168.1.4), but it's still stupid/sloppy coding.
 
hikarutilmitt

hikarutilmitt

Member
With my house the living room PS4 and gaming room PS4 can communicate fine. The issue really is down to which ports are forwarded, which the PS4 can handle as it will check if any of the 4 ports are open and use the first it finds.

You can do one of three things:

1) have a newer router with plenty of memory and a decent CPU (ASUS RT-N66U, anyone?) and a new enough version of UPnP that it's no longer a major security hole and use UPnP. The PS4s will work out which ports they need and request them. Seriously.

2) do the above regardless of the router having a decent CPU and RAM, check which ports were assigned and assign each PS4 a static IP and then forward the ports they requested. This is still a preferable option to using UPnP as a whole.

3) just assign static IPs to each PS4 and assign one port to one and the other port to the other. More or less the same thing #2 does except you're just assigning and hoping it works.


I highly, highly, HIGHLY recommend setting up the static IPs in your router and letting the PS4 use DHCP to grab the IP, as it's bad practice to have the client specify its IP address. You should, at this point, see NAT Type 2 on both systems. The connection type doesn't really matter.


BONUS: if you're using an ASUS RT-N66U or the newer RT-AC66U, install Shibby's Tomato firmware fork. It's fantastic.


tapantaola said:
And here's what I'm talking about:

LP0AzVY.png


Thankfully, I only have one PS4 console (192.168.1.4), but it's still stupid/sloppy coding.
Click to expand...

Believe it or not, that's your router not giving up the port and basically telling the PS4 it's been taken since it was last used. If you turn off your PS4 and flush the UPnP assignments it should only take one port, again.
 
V

ViciousDS

Banned
its weird....because we run 4 PS4's on the weekend for raid activities in Destiny with 2 online players and have never had an issue with party chat....I don't get it.
 
N

Negotiator

Member
hikarutilmitt said:
Believe it or not, that's your router not giving up the port and basically telling the PS4 it's been taken since it was last used. If you turn off your PS4 and flush the UPnP assignments it should only take one port, again.
Click to expand...
Nope. It always does the same.

I guess you didn't read this link: http://community.us.playstation.com...WORK-NEEDS-FIXED-ASAP-Confirmed/td-p/44774137

My PS3 only uses one port (3658).

The PS4 OS is badly designed and I'm not just talking about ports.

Why is there no option to tell my PS4 to use one static port? uTorrent/Skype support that.
 
L

Lalalandia

Member
Brazil said:
I'd gladly pick up a new router and throw the one my ISP lent me away. Problem is: cable comes through the same router, and some of those who live with me still watch TV. I can't even put the router in bridge mode - that cuts the cable signal. It's a mess.

As I seem to be out of options, I'm just contemplating picking up a separate internet connection for myself.
Click to expand...

Wow that is just unutterably awful, a modem so borked it kills the tv signal in bridge mode? Pretty sure there's a UN tribunal for engineers who produce kit that bad.

If it's any help I got an Asus RT-N66U as it supports being flashed to Tomato whenever Asus get bored of updating the image. I've been using 'Tomato by Shibby' for a few years and it's a really nice distro helped keep my Linksys E3000 & WRT54GL relevant and safe for years, you can see the supported routers here (http://tomato.groov.pl/?page_id=69)

Shout out to Shibby, great firmware!

hikarutilmitt said:
BONUS: if you're using an ASUS RT-N66U or the newer RT-AC66U, install Shibby's Tomato firmware fork. It's fantastic.
Click to expand...

This person knows the score! :D
 
hikarutilmitt

hikarutilmitt

Member
tapantaola said:
Nope. It always does the same.

I guess you didn't read this link: http://community.us.playstation.com...WORK-NEEDS-FIXED-ASAP-Confirmed/td-p/44774137

My PS3 only uses one port (3658).

The PS4 OS is badly designed and I'm not just talking about ports.
Click to expand...

I actually read that very thread a while back when I got my second PS4 to make sure there weren't issues with it. Those issues seem to stem from specific games, as if you notice GTA5 for the OP was actually opening 2 ports. Destiny only opens the one.

My wife and I play on both PS4s at the same time, sometimes even on different games (though usually Destiny) and have never had issues with NAT restrictions.

I hate to say the solution is to get a better router, but sometimes it is and some people use REALLY terrible routers with little RAM and CPU that cannot handle many devices on a network. My old Buffalo router running openWRT had plenty and worked well for the most part. Once I updated to my ASUS it got better. Going by threads like that with people going all caps and screaming about fixing something isn't the best measure.
 
hikarutilmitt

hikarutilmitt

Member
Brazil said:
I'd gladly pick up a new router and throw the one my ISP lent me away. Problem is: cable comes through the same router, and some of those who live with me still watch TV. I can't even put the router in bridge mode - that cuts the cable signal. It's a mess.

As I seem to be out of options, I'm just contemplating picking up a separate internet connection for myself.
Click to expand...

I just saw this. Are you using Uverse by any chance?

EDIT: Dang it, double post. Sorry.
 
N

Negotiator

Member
hikarutilmitt said:
I actually read that very thread a while back when I got my second PS4 to make sure there weren't issues with it. Those issues seem to stem from specific games, as if you notice GTA5 for the OP was actually opening 2 ports. Destiny only opens the one.

My wife and I play on both PS4s at the same time, sometimes even on different games (though usually Destiny) and have never had issues with NAT restrictions.

I hate to say the solution is to get a better router, but sometimes it is and some people use REALLY terrible routers with little RAM and CPU that cannot handle many devices on a network. My old Buffalo router running openWRT had plenty and worked well for the most part. Once I updated to my ASUS it got better. Going by threads like that with people going all caps and screaming about fixing something isn't the best measure.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I could probably get a Cisco router, but the PS4 would still request many ports through UPnP, even though it only needs one.

So, why is there no option to tell my PS4 to use one static (configurable) port? uTorrent/Skype support that.

Why isn't it possible to change game port assignments in the PS4 OS, just like we're able to change input button assignments for all games?
 
C

c0de

Member
DrROBschiz said:
Arent there routers available that automatically take care of managing multiple connections suceptible to this issue?
Click to expand...

How would they do that? Usually people only have 1 external IP. If Sony wants to send packets back to you, they use your external IP, via a special port. How would they know if there are two consoles?
 
B

Brazil

Living in the shadow of Amaz
Some very helpful answers in this thread. Hopefully it helps others who come in here by chance through Google or something, haha.

hikarutilmitt said:
I just saw this. Are you using Uverse by any chance?

EDIT: Dang it, double post. Sorry.
Click to expand...

No. I'm using Vivo Fibra - it's a Brazilian ISP.
 
hikarutilmitt

hikarutilmitt

Member
Brazil said:
Some very helpful answers in this thread. Hopefully it helps others who come in here by chance through Google or something, haha.



No. I'm using Vivo Fibra - it's a Brazilian ISP.
Click to expand...

Do you happen to have a model number or info page for the router? I know it sounds crazy, but AT&T U-verse uses a similar setup for IPTV and some of the VIVO routers I'm seeing on Google look like they're made by the same manufacturer or at least operate similarly.

In the mean time, if your router has an option for DMZ or enabling an option for a single IP to have all ports forwarded to it, you could set your other router's IP to that and it doesn't need to be bridged, while the TV functions over IPTV would still work correctly through the VIVO router's firmware. This is how you generally have to do it with U-verse routers (gateways).

tapantaola said:
Yeah, I could probably get a Cisco router, but the PS4 would still request many ports through UPnP, even though it only needs one.

So, why is there no option to tell my PS4 to use one static (configurable) port? uTorrent/Skype support that.

Why isn't it possible to change game port assignments in the PS4 OS, just like we're able to change input button assignments for all games?
Click to expand...

To be fair, this actually looks like a per-game issue rather than an issue with the PS4 itself. It should be transparent but sometimes that's not the case. While I would, personally, support being able to specify which port the console is using via the OS and have the games read only that, it would take a system designed to be simpler to use and require that much more configuration than you already have. I'm with you, but I'm also with their design choice.

c0de said:
How would they do that? Usually people only have 1 external IP. If Sony wants to send packets back to you, they use your external IP, via a special port. How would they know if there are two consoles?
Click to expand...

That's what NATing through UPnP does. It's designed specifically for that. It's not technically the router choosing, since the PS4/360/Xbone/whatever using UPnP is sending a list of ports it wants, but the router is choosing from those and then saying "here you go, use this one" to the system.

This does make me want to try some of my other games with online functions and see if other ports open for them than just the one.
 
S

system11

Member
PizzaRollGoo said:
The sooner we move to IPv6 and away from NAT under IPv4, the sooner these type of issues will go away.
Click to expand...

This is the funniest joke I've seen in months.

When I got my first job somewhere nearly 20 years ago, IPV6 was was formalised and everyone expected to see widespread use within 5 years.

What everyone else said - not much you can do about this other than have two external IPs available. There are certain fixed ports, it's not even a range as people have suggested, it's a range and a scattering of others which are required to make all the parts of PSN work.
 
N

nismopower

Member
My solution was to put modem in bridged and check if u get 2 public ips. I get 2 ips from ziggo, so on 1 wan port is the router( netgear r7000) and the second wan port( are really lan ports but when modem is in bridged it becomes wan) i direclty connect my ps4. So they are not in same network anymore. I get a public ip on my ps4. And my brother has a private ip from the router (standard 192.168 etc) this way upnp works great for him. And my ps4 is getting all the ports without any nat intrusion( nat 1 in test network).
Vtw this problem was also there with 2 xbox 360s and will also be there with 2 xbox ones. Its an ipv4 problem. Ipv6 would be godsend!!
 
Grinchy

Grinchy

Banned
Brazil said:
I already know that solutions like port forwarding, port triggering and DMZs won't do much.
Click to expand...

Are you saying this because you've already tried all these things (and did them right)? Port triggering should be a nice option, since port forwarding and DMZ both specify a single IP address. Port triggering should allow port ranges to be open to both of your PS4s.
 
K

Kal_El

Member
Ok I've been having this issue or at least a similar one. I have 3 ps4 in my house all running off the wifi. The thing is my boys ps4s are running off the main wifi router and mine (on the other side of the house) is running off a repeater because the signal sucks without one.
Still sucks with it

Please speak to me like i'm an idiot because I am with these kinds of things.

How do I open DMZ or turn off uPNP or assign ports or forward ports etc to get the best connection possible or am I already screwed for having my ps4 so far away from the main router.

Thanks in advance
 
N

Negotiator

Member
hikarutilmitt said:
To be fair, this actually looks like a per-game issue rather than an issue with the PS4 itself. It should be transparent but sometimes that's not the case. While I would, personally, support being able to specify which port the console is using via the OS and have the games read only that, it would take a system designed to be simpler to use and require that much more configuration than you already have. I'm with you, but I'm also with their design choice.
Click to expand...
I think a "Port Assignments" section (like the Button Assignments one*) in the settings menu would make things simpler and more transparent than what we have.

* http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps4/settings/accessibility.html

There are a few games that allow you to change the port (Pro Evolution Soccer comes to mind), but I would prefer it if it was being handled by the OS (just like button assignments).
 
th4tguy

th4tguy

Member
tapantaola said:
http://community.us.playstation.com...WORK-NEEDS-FIXED-ASAP-Confirmed/td-p/44774137

TL;DR: PS4 UPnP assigns all ports to one console, so a 2nd (or even a 3rd/4th) one is left with no ports.

The only solution is to assign them manually (9305-9308 range, one port per console).

Sony programmers must be really idiotic. :| Then again, Nintendo is even worse...
Click to expand...

PS4 doesn't have UPnP, the router does. It's a process the router uses to allow multiple devices to use the same ports. Exactly what is happening here. If the router didn't have it, or uses it poorly, you get issues like what OP is having. Sony has nothing to do with this, unless they make the router. PSN uses specific ports, same as XBL, and Nintendo. You can manually port forward those ports to a specific device to insure that it will have access but if without solid upnp, a second system will struggle to get it's data from those ports as sometimes it just wont have access.
 
B

Blanquito

Member
Yeah, friend recently got a second PS4 for his house and hasn't had a problem with it. The router is pretty good and the ISP is great so I think that's what it comes down to.
 
th4tguy

th4tguy

Member
Brazil said:
I'd gladly pick up a new router and throw the one my ISP lent me away. Problem is: cable comes through the same router, and some of those who live with me still watch TV. I can't even put the router in bridge mode - that cuts the cable signal. It's a mess.

As I seem to be out of options, I'm just contemplating picking up a separate internet connection for myself.
Click to expand...

Putting it in bridge mode really shouldn't cut your cable. You should really contact your cable provider about that. Seems pretty crazy that you couldn't use your own equipment. What if you canceled your internet?
 
O

Omegabalmung9

Member
Blanquito said:
Yeah, friend recently got a second PS4 for his house and hasn't had a problem with it. The router is pretty good and the ISP is great so I think that's what it comes down to.
Click to expand...

Yeah I haven't ran to any problems yet. I have a launch PS4 while my brother bought his I think early this year so it could just come down to your ISP or router.
 
DC1

DC1

Member
ViciousDS said:
its weird....because we run 4 PS4's on the weekend for raid activities in Destiny with 2 online players and have never had an issue with party chat....I don't get it.
Click to expand...
Count me in the 'This is not happening to me ..but oh crap, I don't want it to' crowd.
 
th4tguy

th4tguy

Member
Persona7 said:
When you set up the connection try having one PS4 not use UPNP. I think it is the last option under custom setup.
Click to expand...

There is no setting for upnp within the PS4 network setup. It's a router setting and handled by the router. To not use upnp, you have to disable it in the router or place the PS4 in the dmz, putting it outside of any NAT/ UPNP type setup.
 
P

Persona7

Banned
th4tguy said:
There is no setting for upnp within the PS4 network setup. It's a router setting and handled by the router. To not use upnp, you have to disable it in the router or place the PS4 in the dmz, putting it outside of any NAT/ UPNP type setup.
Click to expand...

I specifically remember not allowing UPNP on my PS4...Maybe it was my PS3.
 
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