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It only delays: the frustrations of Sony's PS3 firmware
- Thread starter The Faceless Master
- Start date
The Faceless Master
Member
sometimes i didn't sleep, but i usually slept 4~5 hours a day back then.The Blue Jihad said:
Agent X
Member
I've got no complaints with the frequency of PS3 firmware updates. Also, as others have pointed out, it appears that Sony has changed their firmware patching system so that most updates will be smaller and quicker to download. I also don't find the firmware updates to be slow to download (though a couple of game patches have been slow).
The only complaint I really have for firmware updates is that they should only be mandatory if they're adding features or offering some other major changes. The last update (adding recommendations from PlayStation Store) was relatively minor and nonessential, so that should have been optional instead of mandatory. Sony has pushed out a few optional firmware updates in the past, so the precedent is already there.
The only complaint I really have for firmware updates is that they should only be mandatory if they're adding features or offering some other major changes. The last update (adding recommendations from PlayStation Store) was relatively minor and nonessential, so that should have been optional instead of mandatory. Sony has pushed out a few optional firmware updates in the past, so the precedent is already there.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
You're also describing most discussions on the Internet. :lolChrange said:
I hooked up my ipod touch today to my PC for updates after a couple weeks.
I had 26 things to update, with many apps in the hundreds of megs. I downloaded over 4gb total in updates since Apple designed a system that MAKES YOU DOWNLOAD THE ENTIRE APP AGAIN instead of just the update.
Should I live blog that too? This is arguably more absurd than the PS3 setup, yet people still deal with it. That is what I did. Downloaded, updated, and moved on.
I had 26 things to update, with many apps in the hundreds of megs. I downloaded over 4gb total in updates since Apple designed a system that MAKES YOU DOWNLOAD THE ENTIRE APP AGAIN instead of just the update.
Should I live blog that too? This is arguably more absurd than the PS3 setup, yet people still deal with it. That is what I did. Downloaded, updated, and moved on.
I think people need to separate net bandwidth from the equation. If you have any other system, be it iProduct, wii, 360 or whatever else that requires online updates - they are all on an equal footing when it comes to comparing them in the same house.
The problem with PSN and PS3 games is the frequency and nature of the update process. It is staggered, slower than its closest contemporary (360) due to file size + install step. If you have an insane connection pulling down a 150MB update or bigger may take you 2 minutes, but many people do not.
I find it quite irritating to start up a new game, install it, then find 300MB worth of patches in some cases as required before I can play it. Gran Turismo HD was a particularly evil example, as was everybody's golf.
Some games I just dont bother updating as a result, but heaven help me if I decide to play them online one time (I dread LBP update). 600MB worth of updates probably sit between me and a spur of the moment round of cartoon golf.
It's still non user friendly design to have that procedure. You could complain about it quite legitimately. It doesnt rate highly up there with the worst problems people can deal with, but when youre comparing tech products with other tech products - why not complain?
The problem with PSN and PS3 games is the frequency and nature of the update process. It is staggered, slower than its closest contemporary (360) due to file size + install step. If you have an insane connection pulling down a 150MB update or bigger may take you 2 minutes, but many people do not.
I find it quite irritating to start up a new game, install it, then find 300MB worth of patches in some cases as required before I can play it. Gran Turismo HD was a particularly evil example, as was everybody's golf.
Some games I just dont bother updating as a result, but heaven help me if I decide to play them online one time (I dread LBP update). 600MB worth of updates probably sit between me and a spur of the moment round of cartoon golf.
Mrbob said:
It's still non user friendly design to have that procedure. You could complain about it quite legitimately. It doesnt rate highly up there with the worst problems people can deal with, but when youre comparing tech products with other tech products - why not complain?
I agree both Apple and Sony need to fix some things. I saw John Davidson chime in again and it gets annoying to read his banter on the topic when his mighty Apple has a updating setup for apps which is beyond absurd. Yet I haven't seen him chime in on that topic at all, or I missed it.
The precedent is also there for firmware updates that do 'nothing' for the end user. I'm sure even smaller updates like the most recent one add stuff on the back end that's undisclosed tot he public. It'd be nice if they gave a more comprehensive list of changes, but it seems unlikely that will happen.Agent X said:
Lion Heart
Banned
10mbit connection, ps3 downloads everything at 1.2 mb/s EVERY time. Sure you have to install after...but thats normal. Just cause 360 has a great feature (no installs necessary) doesn't mean ps3s system is broken because is does shit the normal way.
onken
Member
Yeah the software updates suck, huge downloads usually just to include crappy DLC you're never going to buy. Always seem to take forever to download too, and I have a fibre connection.
Firmware updates though.. it never ceases to amaze me how pathetic some people can be. Seriously, people bitching like little girls because they have to wait a few minutes every couple of MONTHS, words fail me.
Firmware updates though.. it never ceases to amaze me how pathetic some people can be. Seriously, people bitching like little girls because they have to wait a few minutes every couple of MONTHS, words fail me.
Salacious Crumb
Junior Member
Lion Heart said:
Maybe PSN in Australia is shit, but I've got 15Mbit connection and PS3 downloads top out at 200kb/s at the best of times.
Lion Heart
Banned
So everything you own is broken? Dumbest thing I've ever heard.Relix said:
Salacious Crumb said:
That really sucks, don't know what to say. I guess the NA servers are better than Australias. Either that or some network settings are fucked.
Lion Heart said:
If something does improve on it yes it is broken. At least my way of thinking. Especially when the Xbox was released a year prior. Inexcusable. Hell I gotta update my PS3 and I don't want to. It's annoying. I work all day, come to have fun and I gotta waste 10+ minutes of my life for the thing to fucking update. That's broken and there's no way anyone can defend it.
And don't get me started on game updates. Ugh.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
The Faceless Master said:
What a tired meme. He posts a long, well thought out post and all you can be is a jerk?
Mrbob said:
You're missing a few key points:
a) I've never seen an App that forces you to update it before it can be used. It's a voluntary process, you can get to it when you get to it.
b) You can update all your Apps at once from iTunes, without needing the device. You can start it and go to sleep or whatever, and it doesn't interrupt your usage at all.
Those are pretty fucking big features.
That's dangerous. If your internet connection fails, then you're stuck with half-installed firmware. Also, consider that the firmware may affect how it downloads updates or connects to the internet. You really need to be doing just about nothing while the firmware is installing. Really, if it downloaded faster, it wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem.Lothars said:
I have much more of a beef with their game updates, though. It really should be updating your games in the background whenever it has time. You also should never have to update a game that you've just downloaded from PSN. The game download and update system is far, far worse than the one for firmware.
Relix said:
You guys realize MS is a software giant compared to Sony? Of course their OS is gonna be superior. You dont see "SonyOfficialOS" on a PC, right? VAIOs have MS OS for a reason.
Doesnt mean Sony should slack off on features but I suppose PS4 will have many improvements in the software/OS department while half assing them into PS3 now. Also I agree once a patch somes out for a game, the PSN file on the store should get updated so the next time someone buys/DL it, it will dl the whole thing already.
RedStep said:
Why would I not want the current update of a title? Also, you still need to transfer the information from your PC to your ipod touch after updating, so that takes more time. Still doesn't change the discussion the method for updating apps on itunes is stupid. Like I said, my comments were more aimed at Davidson bringing his tired schtick back. People living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
Chrange said:
fixed.
Agent X said:
THIS ALL DAY.
why can we not access PSN if we don't have some minor fix for "playback of certain xvid/divx files". if you need the update because you are having issues, you'll know to manually update. otherwise leave everyone else alone that just wants to get online and play games or download stuff. hell, even just sync their trophies.
EDIT: i understand that a lot of the reason the PSN isn't accessible without an update is due to security fixes, additions to the store itself, etc. but like i said before- until the update actually modifies any of that, don't force us to update. i don't mind updating as often as they release new firmware, but sometimes i come home from a long day and just want to hop online as soon as i jump into bed. i can set it to download that uncompressed audio through hdmi fix tomorrow.
I think the PS3 situation is unfortunate, and the process is crap and clearly markedly inferior to the major competitor in the space. But I do contend there are a few areas where I disagree:
On constancy: this isn't so much a problem for me anymore. Sony's slowed with the firmware updates significantly. It's not fair to say there is a new PS3 FW on any "constant" basis. The community (and the media) have been very loud about this and I think Sony has responded.
On the ease of updating apps through the app store: Geeze, I really wish the apps just downloaded their updates automatically. I have no idea why Apple does this.
On constancy: this isn't so much a problem for me anymore. Sony's slowed with the firmware updates significantly. It's not fair to say there is a new PS3 FW on any "constant" basis. The community (and the media) have been very loud about this and I think Sony has responded.
On the ease of updating apps through the app store: Geeze, I really wish the apps just downloaded their updates automatically. I have no idea why Apple does this.
Salacious Crumb
Junior Member
Cruzader said:
You know that tiny software company Valve? Yeah well they have this sort of shit sorted way better than Sony or MS. auto updates, no installs, games are fully up to date when you download them, cloud saves, many fast content servers all over the world, and you don't have to give valve any money to access it. The size of the company is no excuse.
I read this article not long after it was posted to Ars... and I totally agree.
The size of the updates is issue one. Issue two is that there must be issues with traffic to or from Sony's servers for some users or the PS3 doesn't play well with certain networks, and I'm betting it's probably the latter.
I keep meaning to try my PS3 wired, just to see if there's any difference, but PS3 updates are basically the slowest downloads in my house, period. I have a mid-range cable internet package on the best ISP in this part of Canada...
Anyhow, my gaming time is very scarce... so when updates chew up big chunks of it, it sucks.
Needless to say, this has been a long drumbeat from some gamers... if there is a network configuration issue, maybe a firmware upgrade could address that -- that would be one worth waiting for. If it is ISP related, maybe they should figure out what needs to be done to fix download speeds for the apparently large numbers of people who suffer slow download rates.
I wonder if it is overblown in general... and maybe it wouldn't be so bad if the downloads were faster. It still, obviously, wouldn't be quite so quick as the 360, but if updates took half the time, or preferably less, would they still bother me as much? Doubtful.
The size of the updates is issue one. Issue two is that there must be issues with traffic to or from Sony's servers for some users or the PS3 doesn't play well with certain networks, and I'm betting it's probably the latter.
I keep meaning to try my PS3 wired, just to see if there's any difference, but PS3 updates are basically the slowest downloads in my house, period. I have a mid-range cable internet package on the best ISP in this part of Canada...
Anyhow, my gaming time is very scarce... so when updates chew up big chunks of it, it sucks.
Needless to say, this has been a long drumbeat from some gamers... if there is a network configuration issue, maybe a firmware upgrade could address that -- that would be one worth waiting for. If it is ISP related, maybe they should figure out what needs to be done to fix download speeds for the apparently large numbers of people who suffer slow download rates.
I wonder if it is overblown in general... and maybe it wouldn't be so bad if the downloads were faster. It still, obviously, wouldn't be quite so quick as the 360, but if updates took half the time, or preferably less, would they still bother me as much? Doubtful.
Agent X
Member
Slavik81 said:
I totally agree. It doesn't make sense for someone to purchase a game that's been out for a number of months or years, and have to download 8 or 9 different updates for it.
Also, for downloadable games, they should do what Cruzader suggested, and update the executable for the game on the PS Store itself, rather than having the user download the game and then download one or more patches afterward. I've seen situations (example: Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix) where I downloaded the game, and then had to download a "patch" (in actuality, a whole new executable) which was the same size as the game itself.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
one thing i forgot to mention, specifically about COMCAST INTERNET is that the DNS servers are absolute horseshit. everything performed mediocre except my PS3/PSP, which could barely even connect to the network.
changed my DNS settings to the OpenDNS servers and everything has been super fast on my PC and 'back to normal' on my PS3/PSP. so if anyone has switched ISP's lately and are suddenly getting crap rates on their Sony devices, it's worth a try.
as someone mentioned before, and i also didn't think about, location relative to the PSN servers could also be a factor. changing those DNS servers supposedly helps with that a little.
changed my DNS settings to the OpenDNS servers and everything has been super fast on my PC and 'back to normal' on my PS3/PSP. so if anyone has switched ISP's lately and are suddenly getting crap rates on their Sony devices, it's worth a try.
as someone mentioned before, and i also didn't think about, location relative to the PSN servers could also be a factor. changing those DNS servers supposedly helps with that a little.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
I've never had a problem with the firmware at all but the game patches are severely broken on PS3. It should never take over an hour to patch a game no matter what. Shit, game patches shouldn't take longer than a few minutes at MAX.
Barkley's Justice
Member
the problem is the ps3 was designed to be like a pc. that was kutaragi's vision. or more to the point: to dethrone the pc. unfortunately, the ps3's file system and os mimicks that of a pc's: it downloads the updates, extracts them, installs them, reboots...so silly.
also, sony's hardware guys should not design its software systems. here's my crib sheet, m'k?
sony: awesome hardware, poor software interface and os systems
apple: awesome industrial design, awesome software, poor hardware manufacturing (all my apple products have broken to some degree)
microsoft: awesome software, shitty hardware
and those. are. the breaks! break it up, break it up, break it up! break down!
also, sony's hardware guys should not design its software systems. here's my crib sheet, m'k?
sony: awesome hardware, poor software interface and os systems
apple: awesome industrial design, awesome software, poor hardware manufacturing (all my apple products have broken to some degree)
microsoft: awesome software, shitty hardware
and those. are. the breaks! break it up, break it up, break it up! break down!
jetsetfluken
Member
Of all little things to complain about that's lacking in the firmware, THAT'S what they complain about? Pulling the old "patches/FW updates take too long" excuse?
It's been clear to me that the ones who whine about that thing among everything else don't use their PS3 daily enough to notice anything else, and are the types who only power the console on every few months.
It's been clear to me that the ones who whine about that thing among everything else don't use their PS3 daily enough to notice anything else, and are the types who only power the console on every few months.
entremet
Member
You don't see the difference. When you plug in your iPhone you are most likely not using it. It's getting charged. However, when you load a PS3 game, usually that's what you want to do, play the game. It can be annoying. Unlike a PC, I treat my PS3 as a single use game machine. When I turn it on, I want to play the games as fast possible, no delays. It wouldn't be too bad if most games allowed background updating, but they don't.Mrbob said:
But, I agree, they both suck.
Why are some of you guys so defensive about other user's annoyances? Can't we complain about products we've purchased and spent our hard earned money on? Some of you guys are ridiculous. (Not you, but the responses in this thread).
Len Dontree
Animator. Respect knuckles.
jetsetfluken said:
The clunkiness and obtuse multi-step-confirmation-of-every-little-action of the PS3 and PSN interfaces are precisely why I, personally, turn it on far less than my 360 or PC (thankyouSteam!) for gaming fun times (in addition to the comparitively slow actual DL speeds and lack of standardized demos). I honestly get the feeling sometimes that Sony doesn't want me as a customer. :/
Not much for me to say that hasn't already been said, but I will chime in on the Apple bullshit: I have to download 3GB to 4GB every time Apple updates their SDK, including beta versions, because Apple doesn't understand the concept of patches. For a colleague of mine who lives in the countryside, 3GB is half of his monthly bandwidth.
Edit: Actually, I do have something to gripe about. As much as I hate Apple's "update" process, at least when you download an app for the first time, it gives you the latest version. When I download a game for the first time on PSN, why do I subsequently have to download and install patches as well? Why can't the download already have been patched?
Edit: Actually, I do have something to gripe about. As much as I hate Apple's "update" process, at least when you download an app for the first time, it gives you the latest version. When I download a game for the first time on PSN, why do I subsequently have to download and install patches as well? Why can't the download already have been patched?
StreetDisciple
Member
As far as firmware updates, for me, yes it's kind of slow. Does it bother me at all...not really. I personally solved this issue by downloading the firmware update off the blog or even on GAF (when someone post it) to my jump drive, then installing it to my PS3. It may be an extra step but it works so much better for me since I have to update multiple PS3's.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
The Faceless Master said:
Listening to bombcast and vinny was saying it took him an hour to patch (probably exaggerated but still...)
entrement said:
Your right some of the responses are ridiculous and people do have a right to complain but I think some of the more ridiculous responses are the complainers and I think it's a exactly the same type of thing between apple and Sony but Sony gets Criticized and apple doesn't.
the ps3 definitely needs to improve in the aspect of firmware and updates.
All this talk about Apple reminded me of something.
When I got sick of churning and burning through cheap Linksys and Dlink routers because they wouldn't play nice with X piece of networked hardware, I got fed up and threw down for the best wireless router I could afford: an Apple Airport Extreme.
You know what happened? Not only did all my networked shit play nicely together for the first time ever, but my PSN speeds tripled. Unfortunately, this came AFTER my earlier stated incident with the Chipmunk blu ray and Easter morning. :lol
But, it could very well be that the PS3s, at least the fatties (mine is a 40 gig), are less tolerant of substandard routers. I've always run mine wired, FWIW.
When I got sick of churning and burning through cheap Linksys and Dlink routers because they wouldn't play nice with X piece of networked hardware, I got fed up and threw down for the best wireless router I could afford: an Apple Airport Extreme.
You know what happened? Not only did all my networked shit play nicely together for the first time ever, but my PSN speeds tripled. Unfortunately, this came AFTER my earlier stated incident with the Chipmunk blu ray and Easter morning. :lol
But, it could very well be that the PS3s, at least the fatties (mine is a 40 gig), are less tolerant of substandard routers. I've always run mine wired, FWIW.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Mrbob said:
To be fair, it's mainly just a pain on PC. On my Mac the updates are relatively quick & painless, they just kind of go on in the background for a minute or two while you go on with your life. On my work PC it seems to go on for hours, to the point where I never update.
I kind of suspect this is deliberate on Apple's part, similar to the way Hotmail hates Safari.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
LiveFromKyoto said:
As a Mac user I was wondering what he was talking about since updates are super fast and easy every time I do them.