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It's sad that Hack and slash genre is dying

Slamtastic said:
Character Action
Devil May Cry
Bayonetta
Ninja Gaiden
Revengeance
Darksiders 2

Hack and Slash
Dynasty Warriors
God of War
Sengoku Basara
Castelvania LoS
Onechanbara
Ryse
Dante's Inferno

Solved,
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Or not, because Hack 'n Slash is already a genre that in fact has nothing to do with this one. Try, "Beat 'Em Up" as these games are for all intents and purposes the 3D realization of the side-scrolling beat 'em up genre.

Also not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that DMC/Bayonetta and God of War/Dante's Inferno are in different genres. They might be different levels of competence displayed within the same genre, but they're very much the same types of games.
 
Christhor said:
What's an NJ?
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New Jersey
drproton said:
I'd Split it up like this:

Character Action
Devil May Cry
Bayonetta
Ninja Gaiden
Revengeance
Darksiders 2
God of War
Castelvania LoS
Onechanbara
Ryse
Dante's Inferno

Musou
Dynasty Warriors
Sengoku Basara

Hack-and-Slash
Diablo
Path of Exile
Gauntlet
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Musou counts as hack and slash. It's the closest thing we have to the old school beat'em up/hack and slash games of the 2D generations. I really wish this genre would come back and get the AAA treatment.
 
Imperfected said:
Try, "Beat 'Em Up" as these games are for all intents and purposes the 3D realization of the side-scrolling beat 'em up genre.
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Not in the slightest.

The 3D realization of Beat 'Em Ups are Brawlers (The Warriors, Final Fight Streetwise) or God Hand, which I would classify with classic DMC and Bayo as an Action or Character Action game due to depth and quality.
 
conman said:
BIG difference between "character action" and "hack and slash."

And in answer to the question you meant to ask, the character action genre is dying along with most other Japan-centric genres and for most of the same reasons. And, yes, they are actually called "character action" games, despite the naysayers in this thread. Genre names don't have to make logical sense. They're just short-hand, agreed-upon terms for related games, just like any other genres in other mediums. Doesn't matter if they're arbitrary terms or not.
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But "Character Action" is not an agreed upon term. Going by your own definition, it's not its own genre.
 
One of the big problems with the genre is that games have a hard time differentiating it self from other games. No one wants to hear that their combat is like god of war. They mainly have game play that is too repetitive for most. Every dynasty warrior video I have ever watched including the Gundam ones(the ones I was the most interested in) looked fun for maybe a few hours at best.

A variation of the gameplay or more set piece moments is what makes some of those games great. Sadly those are few and far between.
 
Slamtastic said:
Not in the slightest.

The 3D realization of Beat 'Em Ups are Brawlers (The Warriors) or Godhand, which I would classify with classic DMC and Bayo as an Action or Character Action game due to depth and quality.
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As a general rule, classifying genre based on quality is an incredibly stupid idea.

Edit: To clarify somewhat, the fact that Dante's Inferno is a bad game doesn't change the type of game it is. The game they designed was very much intended to be within the same genre as Devil May Cry or Bayonetta. The fact they did a poor job of making a game of that genre doesn't somehow magically make it an entirely different type of game. It's not like they fucked up so hard they ended up with Tetris.
 
vocab said:
One of the big problems with the genre is that games have a hard time differentiating it self from other games. No one wants to hear that their combat is like god of war. They mainly have game play that is too repetitive for most. Every dynasty warrior video I have ever watched including the Gundam ones(the ones I was the most interested in) looked fun for maybe a few hours before it felt like a chore.

A variation of the gameplay or more set piece moments is what some of those games great.
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If you're a true OG beat'em up fan, Dynasty Warriors should be one of your favorite series.
 
Since the first Devil May Cry labeled itself as Stylish Action, this is what me and my friends have always called those games. Didn't the term take off then?
 
Christhor said:
But "Character Action" is not an agreed upon term. Going by your own definition, it's not its own genre.
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If you want to get technical, "video games" are a genre. "Character action" is a sub-genre. But I'd say it is an agreed upon term, it's just that a lot of folks in this forum are a lot younger than some of the rest of us who keep the old ways and terms going. ;)

GuardianE said:
"Character Action" is quickly gaining traction. I wouldn't be surprised if it's here to stay.
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Again, nothing new about it. It's been around for a good long while. At least as far back as the PS2 days. And like most sub-genre designations, it probably originated with marketing folks and spread from there.
 
Silky said:
DMC isn't dead. Just dormant.
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Someone doesn't know Capcom ^_- they like to do what does not make sense... there's a good chance we won't see a mainstream DMC for PS4/Xbone. There's about a 40% chance we'll see one for the iPhone though!
 
GuardianE said:
"Character Action" is quickly gaining traction. I wouldn't be surprised if it's here to stay.
Click to expand...

Maybe amongst a niche group of people, but not for the average consumer. Then again, the games that people describe to be in this genre are horribly niche anyway.
 
It's pretty much a dead genre because nobody wants to fund a game unless it has the potential to make codbux these days (so even if one were to get made, it'd be dumbed down like DmC or a GoW clone). Also take a look at the short list of competent developers: Platinum's going to run out of publishers to fund their bombs sooner or later (and the Kamiya/Mikami games are the only ones that are really great anyway), Ninja Gaiden has been shit since the core of TN left in 2008, Sega's never going fund anything but sequels to popular franchises (so no Shinobi or an interesting new series), and Valhalla's never going to release anything. At least Capcom will probably make DMC5 some day.
 
Josephl64 said:
musou is like a niche in a niche, also despite how much I love them...their overall trend of sales dropping ever since DW4(DW&SW) has me wary for the future
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Yeah, it is a bit disheartening to see that as a fan of many of the games Omega Force and Koei puts out there. There are just so many factors though: home consoles being less popular in Japan now and mobile/handhelds taking over, fatigue from a long generation, many of the games being fundamentally very similar to each other, etc.
 
When I think "hack and slash", I think Gauntlet. I would go with "3d brawler" or "3d combo brawler" for games like Ninja Gaiden, DmC, God of War, etc. I don't think either genre is dying at all, to be honest.
 
GuardianE said:
You don't need a AAA budget to make a good action game.

I'd love for them to have all the money they want because it's pretty much my favorite genre of games, but that's unlikely.
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I never said Triple AAA budget, I dont thnk DMC4 happened on some re6 budget shit, I just want a more completely finished DMC4.

There are some games series who could break off in to more action-ey territory, and get a butt load of money. One Day ONE DAY sonic team will actually figure it out, and there will be an explosion in their studio when they do. And then they shall break open a glass case with two guns and a sword and then they will give it to

This Guy
<<<

and then angels shall descend from on high to everyone who care's house and present them this game.

" here is the cartooney angst DMC game you wanted instead of the super angsy jank mess you got in 2005. Give 40 dollars"

and then we will WE WILL give it 40 bucks, and then We will put it in our consoles.
Except the wii u
. AND IT WILL BE GOOD. And Sega will have done the good thing, they will have done the done good thing.

And then I will be happy.


...


Anyways I think that theming has a lot to do this, while on the RPG side of the spectrum ( though at higher levels, especially in two , KH gets on the DMC side of the spectrum ) KH games seem to do ok. And FF 15 looks like Final Fantasy: Kingdom May Cry; San Andreas. So maybe Stylish action game devs just need to create a great world and theme, and the game will sell its self.
 
Slamtastic said:
Technicality then?
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Maybe, though it's really a thorny path. I mean, is the original (non-MK9) Mortal Kombat not a fighting game because it's basically garbage on a technical level compared to highly technical fighters? (I've seen people make the argument, though it's a bit of a weird one to pitch, especially when a lot of the "technical" elements of Street Fighter were originally bugs and not intended features.)

I would personally say "no", because there's no indication that Lords of Shadow or Dante's Inferno weren't supposed to be as technically deep as Bayonetta, it's simply a problem of the developers not having the experience or time to carry through on that intention.

By comparison, I can agree with Dynasty Warriors being a different genre because it was clearly never intended to have much in the way of technical depth. I don't think Dante's Inferno was supposed to be a button-mashing mess, it just suffers from some combination of poor design and lack of testing.
 
Wonko_C said:
Since the first Devil May Cry labeled itself as Stylish Action, this is what me and my friends have always called those games. Didn't the term take off then?
Click to expand...
Showing off and being stylish is what DMC combat is all about, hence the term. Ninja Gaiden is skill based like DMC, but Ryu doesn't have a stylish kind of attitude or fighting style, so the label wouldn't fit. It obviously wouldn't work with God of War since Kratos is a brute. etc.

You could probably call Bayonetta stylish action.
 
4 more days till this is out.... Can't wait!
Yes Musou games are not selling well, but they're great fun and still popular enough to get bundles like this!

PS4_PIAS-05001A_1.jpg


I agree with the above comments that split hack and slash into two or three categories. There are some categories that are still popular and others which are not as popular.
 
I love character action games. It's my favorite console genre, and pretty much dictates my choice of consoles. So right now, I have a WiiU for W101 and soon Bayo2. Waiting to see what the genre has to offer on the other systems before I even consider them.
 
Stumpokapow said:
When I think "hack and slash", I think Gauntlet. I would go with "3d brawler" or "3d combo brawler" for games like Ninja Gaiden, DmC, God of War, etc. I don't think either genre is dying at all, to be honest.
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I gotta agree.

I don't think there were too many games like that in the first place, well good ones.
 
Not worth bringing up anymore:

Ninja Gaiden

Likely to come back at some point:

Devil May Cry

Very likely - if not inevitable - to come back at some point:

Metal Gear Rising
God of War



Then there is Bayonetta 2 still to come.

I think we'll still have our big players this new generation just like we did before, only without Ninja Gaiden unless a miracle happens (there is Yaiba but less said about that the better). I know people want Darksiders to return so all in all, I don't think these types of games are dying - more that we've yet to hear on the established stuff returning due to the generation transition. I can't see any of the unannounced stuff not coming back tbh.

These are my favourite kind of games as well so this is probably just the optimistic side of me.
 
BadAss2961 said:
Showing off and being stylish is what DMC combat is all about, hence the term. Ninja Gaiden is skill based like DMC, but Ryu doesn't have a stylish kind of attitude or fighting style, so the label wouldn't fit. It obviously wouldn't work with God of War since Kratos is a brute. etc.

You could probably call Bayonetta stylish action.
Click to expand...

I don't think the characters attitude has anything to do with the genere, and you can get stylish ind Ninja Gaiden games.

JRPG's dont stop being JRPG's because the MC isn't an agsty teen.
 
GuardianE said:
Anarchy Reigns is an online beat 'em up. I guess it's sort of Hack and Slash. It's definitely not Character Action.
Click to expand...

Eh, I call em brawlers. either way it's still considered an action game.

ViewtifulJC said:
1. what happen to your old skullgirls avatar I miss it

2. did that game ever come out
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As much as I adore Ms Fortune and Robo fortune, I am an avid rabid Bayonetta fanboy.

And Anarchy reigns came out in Jan-Feb of this year for NA for like $30 on release with absolutely no marketing whatsoever, it was literally sent to die. It was the last straw in Platinum games breaking away from SEGA and their bullshit.
 
BadAss2961 said:
Showing off and being stylish is what DMC combat is all about, hence the term. Ninja Gaiden is skill based like DMC, but Ryu doesn't have a stylish kind of attitude or fighting style, so the label wouldn't fit. It obviously wouldn't work with God of War since Kratos is a brute. etc.

You could probably call Bayonetta stylish action.
Click to expand...

I've also heard "spectacle fighter" used to describe both, because the idea is that playing them is more about "preforming" than "winning". God of War is still about spectacle, it's just a different kind of spectacle: giant set-piece boss fights, gory execution moves, etc.
 
I think the spectacle brawler genre very much rests on the fortunes of 3 dev studios, Platinum, Team Ninja & Ninja Theory (fuck God of War and Batman)

The big problem like all traditional Japanese genres is the Japanese home market switching to handhelds and phones and us aging 30 year old western gamers who grew up with these games moving to casual games as they get older and have less free time.
Still the genre isn't anywhere as niche as shmups so I doubt It'll totally die off from the big screen.


joe2187 said:
Not one mention of anarchy reigns?

goddamn SEGA fucked that game over big time
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While the game was far from perfect, Dire lobby system, Carpal Tunnel inducing button mashing fights. plus no marketing, it was a shame this game didn't take off.

I hope P* or someone make another go at it in the future since a MP brawler is just my kind of game. Maybe adding in crossplatform play rather than splitting the playerbase between 2 systems.
 
Since it looks like the Musou fans are in here now, I somehow own Samurai Warriors 3 and Sengoku Basara Samurai Heroes in my Wii backlog. Which should I play first, having never actually played one of those before?
 
Imperfected said:
I've also heard "spectacle fighter" used to describe both, because the idea is that playing them is more about "preforming" than "winning". God of War is still about spectacle, it's just a different kind of spectacle: giant set-piece boss fights, gory execution moves, etc.
Click to expand...

And that term is bad because "Fighter" (Fighting Game) is a different genre.

Also, I would use "Brawler" to refer to things where you use fists instead of a sword (and the game is 3D movement/gameplay), but I suppose those are kind of rare, and you can use fists in most Action games as well.
 
I pray that Platinum never goes away.

Capcom can't be trusted and Team Ninja Dog is a shell of its former self, western studios only know how to make God of War level action games.(except Darksiders but that's dead)
 
That's pretty funny.
I'm actually playing One Piece Pirate Warriors 2 right now and just saw this thread. It's like $13 on PSN right now, so much damn fun. Ken's Rage 2 and MGR came out earlier this year. That's just off the top of my head.
Drakengard 3 will be out later this year in the US too, so there's that....

The genre isn't going away by any stretch.
 
When someone says "Hack 'n Slash", I think about it as the weapon-focused subgenre of the Beat 'em-Up genre. Such as Golden Axe, Dragon's Crown, or Sacred Citadel.

"Musou" and "Character action games" are their own Genres. Exploration, character growth, finesse and objective of combat; they all go at these things totally differently.

The only reason I see the "Character Action" style shrinking is because western studios basically have no experience with making such games; First person RPGs and Shooters? Sure. But how many western studios have made games like Ryse and (to a lesser extent) God of War? And they rarely make any sequels; They experiment with it once, and then move on to something else.

I keep wondering if Ryse might be the catalyst to more western Close-Ranged-Melee-Combat focused games though. We know this industry LOVES to play Copycat. It leaves enough open spots for other companies to make something much more refined in a variety of specific areas.
 
Stumpokapow said:
When I think "hack and slash", I think Gauntlet. I would go with "3d brawler" or "3d combo brawler" for games like Ninja Gaiden, DmC, God of War, etc. I don't think either genre is dying at all, to be honest.
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Well it looks like " Character Action " is the correct name for this genre so please change the thread title to to this
 
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