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It's the NAS (Network Attached Storage) Thread, yo.

Battersea Power Station

Battersea Power Station

Member
Can you guys help me out? I'm trying to design a NAS solution that will hold all my media, documents, work projects, etc.

I have a few questions.

1. Because I will have important things on the NAS, I'd like redundancy. How do I set this up? Is there a guide? I have no experience with RAID (but I do have experience putting a computer together, so not complete newbie).

2. Do I need a certain brand or type of HDD? I have two WD 1 TB drives, but I have to check the specific model.

3. If I use it for Windows backup or Time Machine, can I designate a specific folder, or does it have to use the whole drive? How does that work when I have music and movies on there, etc.?

Thanks for this and any other advice you can offer, including on specific items (can I get an enclosure for under $100 and use my current drives?).
 
T

Totakeke

Member
Battersea Power Station said:
Can you guys help me out? I'm trying to design a NAS solution that will hold all my media, documents, work projects, etc.

I have a few questions.

1. Because I will have important things on the NAS, I'd like redundancy. How do I set this up? Is there a guide? I have no experience with RAID (but I do have experience putting a computer together, so not complete newbie).

2. Do I need a certain brand or type of HDD? I have two WD 1 TB drives, but I have to check the specific model.

3. If I use it for Windows backup or Time Machine, can I designate a specific folder, or does it have to use the whole drive? How does that work when I have music and movies on there, etc.?

Thanks for this and any other advice you can offer, including on specific items (can I get an enclosure for under $100 and use my current drives?).
Click to expand...

You should know that RAID significantly decreases your storage space, I myself have 5x 2TB drives so two 1TB WD drives doesn't seem like it's necessary to do RAID. There are also multiple types of RAID so do read up on them before deciding on one. I don't have a guide in mind right now, but googling will give you some good resources. It's best if you use the same drives for RAID. Also instead of RAID, you should check using Storage Spaces if you're using one of the new Windows OSes.

RAID'ed drives still work like normal drives in Windows and does the same things as you were accessing just a single drive. Not sure about how Time Machine works.
 
Battersea Power Station

Battersea Power Station

Member
I'm not sure if I need RAID at all; that's what I was asking. Is there any other way to achieve redundancy within the NAS itself, so that if a drive fails I still have that data?
 
T

Totakeke

Member
Battersea Power Station said:
I'm not sure if I need RAID at all; that's what I was asking. Is there any other way to achieve redundancy within the NAS itself, so that if a drive fails I still have that data?
Click to expand...

Well since you have only two drives, the most you can really do is to mirror it (copy files over so both drives have the same content) so you only get 1TB out of the 2TB. WHS and Win8/Win Server 2012 had software solutions to the problem without really resorting to hardware raid or intel chipset emulated raid, but they pretty much essentially do the same thing.

What OS are you planning on using for your NAS? The OS might have features like that built in that would suffice for your needs so you don't have to spend a lot of time configuring RAID.
 
T

Totakeke

Member
Battersea Power Station said:
I'm not opposed to buying larger drives... just trying to see what my options are.

I was planning to use FreeNAS since there are a few guides for setting that up.
Click to expand...

Never used FreeNAS, but you can configure it to have software RAID too.

Configure Storage
FreeNAS® supports the creation of both UFS and ZFS volumes; however, ZFS volumes are recommended to get the most out of your FreeNAS® system.
When creating a volume, you have several choices depending upon your storage requirements and whether or not data already exists on the disk(s). The following options are available:
1. Auto-import an existing UFS disk, gstripe (RAID0), gmirror (RAID1), or graid3 (RAID3) in Storage → Volumes → Auto Import Volume.
2. Auto-import an existing ZFS disk, stripe, mirror, RAIDZ1, RAIDZ2, or RAIDZ3 in Storage → Volumes → Auto Import Volume. Auto-importing is described in more detail here.
3. Import a disk that is formatted with UFS, NTFS, MSDOS, or EXT2 in Storage → Volumes → Import Volume. This is described in more detail here.
4. Format disk(s) with UFS and optionally create a gstripe (RAID0), gmirror (RAID1), or graid3 (RAID3) in Storage → Volumes → UFS Volume Manager.
5. Format disk(s) with ZFS and optionally create a stripe, mirror, RAIDZ1, RAIDZ2, or RAIDZ3 in Storage → Volumes → ZFS Volume Manager.
If you format your disk(s) with ZFS, additional options are available:
1. Divide the ZFS pool into datasets to provide more flexibility when configuring user access to data. Dataset creation is described here.
2. Create a Zvol to be used when configuring an iSCSI device extent. Zvol creation is described here.
Click to expand...

http://doc.freenas.org/index.php/Quick_Start_Guide

If you're not worried about performance, it's more than adequate really.
 
Z

Zhuk86

Banned
Just wanted to drop into this thread and say I've owned a Synology DS 212j for about 6 months. For home and media use it's been nothing short of fantastic, and does everything I throw at it.

Would highly recommend this for anyone wanting a NAS for torrenting/media/print server.
 
bee

bee

Member
anyone in the UK would be crazy to pick a nas over a HP ProLiant MicroServer n54l imo. they can be had for about £90 (after £100 cashback, yes they do pay out), my older n40l uses around 20w idle (drives powered down), i upgraded it with 8gb ram and a nvidia gt 520 gfx card so now it has hdmi out, can do bit streaming audio for movies and because of the graphics card it only uses around 20% cpu (on a 1.4ghz turion) to play large mkv files. flash a modded bios to it and it'll take 6 or maybe even 7 drives, got an sdd + 5 WD reds in mine, love it.

plus you can obviously run any program/service you want on it rather than having a limited selection made available by the nas supplier
 
G

Got the Shakes

Member
Zhuk86 said:
Just wanted to drop into this thread and say I've owned a Synology DS 212j for about 6 months. For home and media use it's been nothing short of fantastic, and does everything I throw at it.

Would highly recommend this for anyone wanting a NAS for torrenting/media/print server.
Click to expand...

Nice. I came to this thread to see if anyone owned one of these. Been looking at the DS212j and DS213 and I'm not sure I see enough of a difference to justify spending the extra $100 on the 213.
 
T

th3dude

Member
Got the Shakes said:
Nice. I came to this thread to see if anyone owned one of these. Been looking at the DS212j and DS213 and I'm not sure I see enough of a difference to justify spending the extra $100 on the 213.
Click to expand...

Wait for the 213J. It's the update to the 212J. It came out in May and I've been checking amazon every freaking day waiting for them to get it in stock.
 
T

th3dude

Member
Got the Shakes said:
Thanks for the heads up. If you don't mind me asking, what are the major differences between the two?
Click to expand...

You'll have to check the Synology site for more detail (they have a great compare tool) but from what I can tell it is a rather significant CPU and RAM upgrade, which will give better performance and also let you get software updates longer.

Edit: www.synology.com/products/compare_spec.php?lang=us&product_id_list=124,89#compare_show_top

There ya go. Biggest thing is 256mb DDR2 vs 512mb DDR3
 
M

Marty Chinn

Member
Has anyone migrated from a WHS setup to a new NAS like Synology? What was the process like for migrating a ton of data from one to another?
 
D

Deleted member 12837

Unconfirmed Member
Marty Chinn said:
Has anyone migrated from a WHS setup to a new NAS like Synology? What was the process like for migrating a ton of data from one to another?
Click to expand...

I would also like to know this. I currently have an HP Mediasmart EX495 and I'd like to get a Synology DS1511 (or whatever the latest equivalent model is) for maximum future expandability.
 
V

Valkyr Junkie

Member
Marty Chinn said:
Has anyone migrated from a WHS setup to a new NAS like Synology? What was the process like for migrating a ton of data from one to another?
Click to expand...

Haven't made the jump yet, but basically you'd transfer from one to the other via a PC like you would from one external HDD to another. Obviously NAS' offer you additional file transfer options though (SMB, FTP, etc).
 
M

Marty Chinn

Member
Valkyr Junkie said:
Haven't made the jump yet, but basically you'd transfer from one to the other via a PC like you would from one external HDD to another. Obviously NAS' offer you additional file transfer options though (SMB, FTP, etc).
Click to expand...

Sounds kinda painful; I guess sort of what I expected. I'm talking about terabytes of data, and not wanting to buy the same amount of storage in drives just to copy it over. My current WHS has 11 drives that's pooled together, so I'm not sure how easy it would be to transfer to a new setup.
 
V

Valkyr Junkie

Member
Marty Chinn said:
Sounds kinda painful; I guess sort of what I expected. I'm talking about terabytes of data, and not wanting to buy the same amount of storage in drives just to copy it over. My current WHS has 11 drives that's pooled together, so I'm not sure how easy it would be to transfer to a new setup.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's going to be a huge PITA no matter what. Technically you could RDP into the WHS and map directly to the Synology to speed up the process and eliminate the PC, but it'll still take a while. Obviously the bigger problem is the fact you can't just move your drives over. NTFS + Drive Extender obviously won't work with ZFS(?) + Synology RAID. I don't see a way around not having to purchase at least a few new drives.
 
G

Got the Shakes

Member
KingoftheRing said:
Would this be worth it for someone who currently has the 212J? My only real complaint with the thing is that it can be a little slow in the web interface, and that video streaming to my TV is a little stuttery. Other than that, the little box has been a dream.
Click to expand...

I am definitely not the right person to answer that. I was going to buy a 212j and then was told that the 213j was releasing soon. Right now I have a WD MyBook Live that drives me nuts with how slow the file transfer speeds are.
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
Battersea Power Station said:
I'm not sure if I need RAID at all; that's what I was asking. Is there any other way to achieve redundancy within the NAS itself, so that if a drive fails I still have that data?
Click to expand...

yes you want RAID 1 RAID 5 or RAID 1+0 which is multiple striped drives plus mirroring

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_RAID_levels


i use freenas in a raid 0 with 12TB for all my ripped blu-rays music and as a backup for all my photography and documents(use carbonite to backup my photography and documents offsite)

Freenas can be simple or it can be finicky. Not sure I recommend it for just anyone.

sangreal said:
3 years and the thread title still isn't fixed
Click to expand...
i know, seriously. SAN or NAS pick one. not some weird amalgamation of the two.
 
T

TheChewyWaffles

Member
404Ender said:
I would also like to know this. I currently have an HP Mediasmart EX495 and I'd like to get a Synology DS1511 (or whatever the latest equivalent model is) for maximum future expandability.
Click to expand...

I have the exact same server and also a couple tb on another gaming computer. Not sure what to do since I want Drive Extender but the 495 is getting long in the tooth.
 
D

Deleted member 12837

Unconfirmed Member
TheChewyWaffles said:
I have the exact same server and also a couple tb on another gaming computer. Not sure what to do since I want Drive Extender but the 495 is getting long in the tooth.
Click to expand...

Synology has an equivalent of Drive Extender though, doesn't it? Wikipedia says these are the key features it offers:

- Multi-disk redundancy so that if any given disk failed, data was not lost
- Arbitrary storage expansion by supporting any type of hard disk drive (Serial ATA, USB, FireWire etc.) in any mixture and capacity — similar in concept to JBOD
- A single folder namespace (no drive letters)

I'm pretty sure you can do all of that with the DS1511
 
B

bremon

Member
Great thread. I picked up a DS413 with 4x 3TB WD Red a few months ago, and it's been a fantastic machine. I don't regret spending the money at all, despite less expensive DIY options being out there. DSM software is pretty intuitive too. Might pick up a 213 in the relatively-near future.
 
D

diehard

Fleer
Built this.

Supermicro 36 bay chassis, 6-core Xeon, 64GB Registered RAM, 9207-8i LSI HBA.

9CNkdbX.jpg


Will be 108TB of ZFS goodness. Using iSCSI so i guess its closer to a SAN though.
 
B

bremon

Member
Awesome rig, 108TB! I don't know what image would be more appropriate, Palpatine saying "you want this, don't you?" or something about "unlimited power".
 
S

Shin Johnpv

Member
dIEHARD said:
Built this.

Supermicro 36 bay chassis, 6-core Xeon, 64GB Registered RAM, 9207-8i LSI HBA.

9CNkdbX.jpg


Will be 108TB of ZFS goodness. Using iSCSI so i guess its closer to a SAN though.
Click to expand...

Those cases are hot! Can we get a photo of the inside? I wish I could have afforded one of those cases or a Norco case.
 
G

gokieks

Member
I'm jealous. I've been putting off upgrading my personal fileserver, and am starting to look at a low-end Xeon/ESXi setup. Which is rather pricier than my original intention of a low-powered Ivy Bridge Pentium...
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
dIEHARD said:
three 10 disk raid-z2 and smaller 6 disk raid 10.



It's not a good picture but here ya go.

V2BXKLX.jpg


Will be adding a 10gb NIC and hopefully a second HBA for redundancy.
Click to expand...

jesus, you have a rack for that?

Also, 100terabytes... thats a lot of porn.

seriously though what are you putting on that, I know enterprise companies that dont have a quarter of that storage.
 
D

diehard

Fleer
gokieks said:
I'm jealous. I've been putting off upgrading my personal fileserver, and am starting to look at a low-end Xeon/ESXi setup. Which is rather pricier than my original intention of a low-powered Ivy Bridge Pentium...
Click to expand...
I think an IVB Pentium would be fine if you are just looking at it for a personal file server. What else would you run on Vmware? Do you need to do video transcoding?
captive said:
jesus, you have a rack for that?

Also, 100terabytes... thats a lot of porn.

seriously though what are you putting on that, I know enterprise companies that dont have a quarter of that storage.
Click to expand...

Oh i built it for work lol. I only have like 10TB at home..
We were looking for cheaper alternatives to Compellent.. a 30TB Rack from them costs about $35,000 and they charge nearly $1000 for an enterprise drive (you have to buy it from them).
 
G

gokieks

Member
dIEHARD said:
I think an IVB Pentium would be fine if you are just looking at it for a personal file server. What else would you run on Vmware? Do you need to do video transcoding?
Click to expand...

It's not so much that I *need* more capability than a low-end IVB (or even SNB or earlier) Pentium can offer, but rather that I'm interested in having an ESXi setup to play with at home and that this seems like a nice application for it. And I might want the fileserver to handle some on-the-fly transcoding for media files depending on what devices I might connect to it down the road, so the extra performance wouldn't hurt either.
 
D

diehard

Fleer
gokieks said:
It's not so much that I *need* more capability than a low-end IVB (or even SNB or earlier) Pentium can offer, but rather that I'm interested in having an ESXi setup to play with at home and that this seems like a nice application for it. And I might want the fileserver to handle some on-the-fly transcoding for media files depending on what devices I might connect to it down the road, so the extra performance wouldn't hurt either.
Click to expand...

Remember that the only real advantage of going with a lower end Xeon is support for ECC ram, so if you arent going to use that you might as well get an i5/i7 setup. A Socket 2011 i7-3820 would be awesome in that.
 
G

gokieks

Member
Yeah, but ECC RAM actually is a pretty major advantage, as in-memory corruption is one of the few areas where data corruption actually can occur in a ZFS setup.
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
dIEHARD said:
Oh i built it for work lol. I only have like 10TB at home..
We were looking for cheaper alternatives to Compellent.. a 30TB Rack from them costs about $35,000 and they charge nearly $1000 for an enterprise drive (you have to buy it from them).
Click to expand...
makes sense then.

And yea, Sans ain't cheap for what they are, but a lot of it seems like your paying for the service and their name.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
sn1pes said:
My 213j comes tomorrow!
Click to expand...
Mine should be in on Friday. They were getting low on stock on Amazon, so I finally pulled the trigger after thinking about a similar purchase for months.

I hope it isn't too much trouble to set up as I don't have a ton of experience with this sort of thing.
 
T

th3dude

Member
Well since Amazon decided to ship USPS rather than UPS, my NAS will now be sitting at the post office until I can pick it up on Saturday.
 
T

th3dude

Member
So fellow NAS heads, a few questions.

Just got my Synology DS213j today. I have 2 3TB Seagate drives to put in it.

1) Should I use Synology Hybrid Raid, RAID1, or something else? I want duplication I think.
2) Should I upgrade the firmware in these drives first? If so, can I do it from the NAS or do I need to put them in my computer?

Really looking forward to setting this bad boy up!
 
I

impirius

Member
Hey, the title is fixed! This is even better than that time Sony fixed the controller battery indicator overlapping the clock.
 
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