pants
Member
VR isnt a gimmick friend, it's here to stay and the market wants it from what I can tell.
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Iwata on NX: "Expanding on existing hardware is dull"
- Thread starter axisofweevils
- Start date
VR isnt a gimmick friend, it's here to stay and the market wants it from what I can tell.
I remember John Harker talking about low 5 figure numbers for major releases. He also expressed how unusual it was for early adopters not to be supporting these titles as they would on other systems. Either Wii U owners were the most knowledgeable gamers on the planet and voted with their wallets or the demographic on the Wii U was completely apathetic to 3rd party games in general. I'm leaning towards the latter.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
Great post. The gamepad really is a solution in search of a problem.
Oh the irony. Kinda like motion and touch controls? Err I mean gimmicks. VR's going to suck for you when you realize how you're interacting with the game world.
I believe Most of the early wii u adopters were of the hardcore variety (not the mainstream). You know, the types of folks that have already played mass effect, batman, nba 2k12...
Orniletter
Banned
Those things might be true, but that doesn't mean it's not a gimmick.
civilstrife
Member
I just can't fathom how some people think that Nintendo could look at the current state of the AAA market and go "Oh yeah, we should be doing THAT."
There are far fewer releases so far this gen than the gen before at this point, and that's not counting remasters.
AAA development is contracting to a handful of heavyweight studios. Nobody else can keep up, nor take the risk of banking their entire business on the success of their latest game.
The studio that made Bioshock is no more. Bioshock.
Whatever Nintendo does, it will not be aimed at the "hardcore".
There are far fewer releases so far this gen than the gen before at this point, and that's not counting remasters.
AAA development is contracting to a handful of heavyweight studios. Nobody else can keep up, nor take the risk of banking their entire business on the success of their latest game.
The studio that made Bioshock is no more. Bioshock.
Whatever Nintendo does, it will not be aimed at the "hardcore".
Well there was Arkham City Armored Edition, CoD:Blops 2, Just Dance 4, Mass Effect 3 (and a collection was announced so fast for PS3 and 360 which would have made more sense for the Wii U), Tekken Tag 2: Wi U edition, Darksiders 2.
Many were ports of games many months prior. Many of the hardcore already owned them on PS3 or 360.
Interceptor
Banned
One of the most funniest things in gaming right now is the need of the self proclaimed "hardcore" to label everything that isn't a beefed up PS1 as a gimmick while defending sitting in a corner with a helmet on as not gimmicky at all. Its the future you know.
Best thing is they defend it to their blood. No other opinions are tolerated.
I realize this, but we are talking numbers that meant either the GAF hivemind is a real thing or that publishers completely misread the demographics on the system by even making the games available. Harker has historical numbers for launch attach rates, and the numbers he was seeing where baffling. Meanwhile Nintendo was seeing numbers far more in line with what should have been expected.
Oh, no doubt, but whatever their logic their conclusion was correct.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
Sony and Microsoft are doing VR, therefore it's not a "gimmick". Meanwhile, the Wii U GamePad is literally just a controller with a screen in the middle, and that's somehow more gimmicky. These threads bring out the worst in people on both sides. Don't get me wrong, I think the Wii U is horribly designed, but the double standards are hilarious.
vr is like the textbook definition of whizzbang 90s bizzaro world stuff that would change the future of video games forever. i actually fucking love it, because games have become far too safe a place for a large chunk of the industry, and this looks like it'll get them thinking outside the box again. at least, the potential is there.
but come on, wanting a powerful console and vr is basically asking nintendo to come out with a $600 platform in 2017. it's not happening. i wouldn't rule out one or the other though.
An article just posted about helping simulator sickness:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1017082
I don't know how easy it is to sell a product that is actively making people feel ill, but I can only imagine it may impact sales.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
Motion controls are looking a lot less gimmicky with VR on the horizon. Touch controls definitely aren't a gimmick. The strength of the mobile space is a testament to that.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
Serendipitous? Man, the lengths some people go to downplay how incredibly well-executed the Wii was. A novel concept, a killer app, an appropriate price, instantly recognizable branding, and razor sharp marketing. Nintendo didn't haphazardly stumble upon all these things.
This right here:
is some Apple iPod level shit.
Serendipity isn't a bad thing. They were lucky, where the definition of luck is preparation meets opportunity. That's not taking anything away from their efforts. At the same time, "lightning in a bottle" has been used to describe the Wii many times for a good reason.
Khaos_Knight
Banned
Lol jesus, they're going down the gimmick box road again?
Nintendo really is a dynasty of incompetence.
Well I hope for their consumer's sake they actually do some research this time and avoid dropping another lackluster, overpriced bomba gimmick like the Wii U gamepad.
Nintendo really is a dynasty of incompetence.
Well I hope for their consumer's sake they actually do some research this time and avoid dropping another lackluster, overpriced bomba gimmick like the Wii U gamepad.
For a "dynasty of incompetence" that has outlasted all other companies, that's saying something.
And again, "expanding on existing hardware is dull" can be taken many, many different ways.
1) Definitely not a WiiU/3DS expansion
2) Perhaps not even a "console" as we know it, but will still be a hardware-based platform
3) VR? Who knows.
There is a differents between headset or holograms.
Having a oculus rift at home and i can say it can't be used to play the games we are playing on consoles. I do thing that something like holograms would be the only sollution for that.
The big differents here is that :
With a vr headset, you are moving the screen when looking arround.
With holograms, it's one large screen which only moves when turning your character. But not when looking around.
Having a oculus rift at home and i can say it can't be used to play the games we are playing on consoles. I do thing that something like holograms would be the only sollution for that.
The big differents here is that :
With a vr headset, you are moving the screen when looking arround.
With holograms, it's one large screen which only moves when turning your character. But not when looking around.
It was 10 years ago. No one could see the point of touchscreen controls. 4 years ago mobile gaming was seen as a fad that will die down in a short period of time, today they are still growing. 8 years ago motion controls seemed pointless but today they are integrated into pretty much every console, handheld or otherwise. 25 years ago handheld gaming was seen as a lesser form of gaming, today the second most successful console of all time is a handheld. 40 years ago video games as whole was seen as a gimmick.
Point is, what people like to call "gimmicks" don't realize that video gaming as a whole a gimmick by their definition, which is obviously false. The term needs to stop being used a derogatory one.
robor
Member
Yea, I don't think Nintendo is seriously interested in doing more gimmicky bullshit.
Lightning ain't gonna strike the same place twice. I think Iwata has learned dearly from that mistake.
I got a feeling Nintendo might actually be taking notes from Valve and their Steam brand. Perhaps more R&D money is being invested in creating a expanded online service.
Maybe go all-digital?
Lightning ain't gonna strike the same place twice. I think Iwata has learned dearly from that mistake.
I got a feeling Nintendo might actually be taking notes from Valve and their Steam brand. Perhaps more R&D money is being invested in creating a expanded online service.
Maybe go all-digital?
There is presedence for this, which why its kinda concerning when they had to reestablish their "No, we aren't going to bow out of the console market" by announcing a new hardware platform.
Keywords here are "hardware" and "platform". No mention of whether or not its a console or portable. Nintendo is incredibly tight-lipped, but you can bet it ain't going to be Amiibo either.
DryvBy
Member
Is he basically confirming this next console is going to be another gimmicky console with novelty value? Because playing on upgraded hardware in a traditional sense isn't dull and it's been something a lot of people want.
Wasting money on motion controls and giant screen controllers is what's dull.
Actually, VR is a novelty thing to people. I love VR and was one of the first to get that delicious DK2 when it came out. But not everyone can even use VR so to focus your next console on strictly a VR setting would be a big waste of money and a bad business choice.
They need to just have a traditional system this time.
Wasting money on motion controls and giant screen controllers is what's dull.
Actually, VR is a novelty thing to people. I love VR and was one of the first to get that delicious DK2 when it came out. But not everyone can even use VR so to focus your next console on strictly a VR setting would be a big waste of money and a bad business choice.
They need to just have a traditional system this time.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
Nintendo and DeNA initiative is a sign that the way Nintendo is dealing with dedicated gaming platforms will change drastically. Whoever is thinking its a hardware with a gimmick it's likely not. Nintendo will change the way they do their business specially their dedicated gaming platforms.
Pancakes R Us
Member
I believe they were of the hardcore variety too, but the hardcore Nintendo fans, that don't tend to bother with these titles you've listed.
i don't see anything boring about exploring game concepts by challenging what traditional input devices can be. however, those input devices better have the software to back up their existence and not just exist for themselves or some idea that only lives in concept and not reality.
NingenJanai
Member
NX should be the next GameBoy, a portable console that can output to an HDMI wireless dongle that can be pluged to your TV and has Wii U level graphics, so it can be used on the go or as a home console.
KratosEnergyDrink
Member
Nonetheless it has many good games and a good bunch of the best games last gen.
pants
Member
Please, let my opinions upset you more.
I'm using gimmick interchangeable with fad, like current motion controls and kinect wont last (as an entity on its own), but it's clear to see how they will evolve into something that will supplement VR.
VR is staying, it's not a great leap to see that.
There is no way Nintendo would do that, I know as much, I'm expressing what I'd personally like to see because no one has time to buy a box that only plays Nintendo games. The only way forward for them I feel is backwards to SNES days sans draconian third party relations
DryvBy
Member
To each their own. And given how Nintendo's home consoles have sold the past couple of years, there's less people wanting stupid stuff with their consoles.
I own a Wii U and the thing I hate about it is the giant controller. It's bulky and unnecessary for most every game I've played.
I wish nintendo use AMD Bermuda on Project NXafter 2 or 3 years.
# of shader units / stream processors
AMD Bermuda: 8,192 (4096 x 2) (not happening in a Nintendo product)
PS4: 1152
XBone: 768
Xbox 360: 240
Wii U: 160 (right ?)
i think so too, but right now the morpheus is more like the sega cd. i think it's super duper early and will be considered laughably dated in the next decade.
i don't think there's any way any company is going to offer a $600 vr platform. the best you might get is wii u level graphics and a helmet thingy in 2017 for $400 but high end stuff like that isn't going to come out together from anyone.
there's less people wanting dedicated gaming platforms in general if we're looking at the market over the last couple of years. what i was hinting at in particular though was that the wii u's gamepad was not a good device. it was expensive, there are no accessible games for it, and it doesn't do much to sell it to people on its own. it's not new or interesting in its own right because people already have touch screen devices. this contrasts sharply with the wii remote that was far less expensive for nintendo and consumers, had several accessible games at launch, and practically sold itself.
different input devices and ways to experience games aren't bad on their own. it comes down to implementation and software. the wii remote was a strong concept. the wii u gamepad was an exceptionally weak one. vr seems to be more of a strong one (in that it's immediately understood and sparks imagination right away).
I don't think WiiU is such a simple port machine for PS360 games.
I have seen many posts of this sort, and I always don't understand them - its not like porting from 360 to PS3 (and vice versa) was easy - so porting last gen games to WiiU cannot be so easy.
If the next Nintendo console is built with similar architecure to the next consoles, and also has similar enough power (not like WiiU where it is considerrably weaker than Xone or PS4), and the dev tools are up to par, I do not think 3rd parties will ignore the next Nintendo console.
However, I don't think those 3 happening, so it is a moot point IMO.
DryvBy
Member
Have you used any VR headsets yet? It doesn't work for a lot of people. People that never get motion sickness end up with motion sickness. It took me weeks to adjust to it so I could play it more than 30 minutes. And there's several genres it wouldn't work for. From my experience, the best games are cockpit games and horror games.
My best friend loves Nintendo products and when I gave him a tour of VR using a very simple demo called Titans of Space, he became ill the entire night and never wanted to try it again. Titans of Space you are simply sitting there and looking around.
VR isn't going to be a replacement from tradition, I'm sorry. I love VR and I can't wait for the final Oculus / Morpheus projects but I know it's not going to replace my TV or anything.
Kageshinzo
Member
Oh please, let us not decry "gimmicks" when what is considered basic and expected for traditional console hardware these days are themselves born from gimmicks of past consoles: analog, rumble, wireless controls, etc. At least there is a company right now that is willing to take the risk on taking this hobby to crazy directions; you people won't be enjoying some of the comforts of your "traditional" consoles right now otherwise.
Just how the hell do you even know?
Honestly though, GAF is filled with Nintendo haters.
i've used both oculus rift and sony's morpheus. what i mean by being strong is that i think the idea is easily explained and piques the interest of more than just white guys ages 18-34. it's something that can appeal to anyone who can handle it. the same doesn't hold true for the controller with the screen in the middle. people understand that there's a touch screen on the controller, but they don't care. the gamepad reminds me of nintendo talking about their bold choice with the gamecube's button layout with the giant a button and kidney-shaped x and y buttons like they'd just discovered fire. you can't selll a console on touch screens or buttons these days.
DryvBy
Member
Sony seems to be selling their old man console just fine
. And what's interesting is the PS4 was (at the time of announcing it) the most traditional console of the 3. Basic controller, nothing forced on you (aside from *cough* PS+ *cough*), no requirements to jump online. And it's doing a lot better than people thought.Sony seems to be selling their old man console just fine
what i'm saying is the wii u gamepad selling on 'it's a touch screen!' is about as exciting to people as nintendo saying the gamecube's controller 'has a new button layout!' for nintendo to reach people, they need to appeal to imagination more. that's the nice thing about vr, and that's what motion controls did to hook them in the first place. this is about them reaching new customers who are fine with nintendo making nintendo games and third parties who thrive in that ecosystem.
ps4 is doing what the market leader should be doing, and that's largely thanks to europe. it had a poor first year in japan, and in the us, is currently behind the wii and ps2. the flipside to this is that the second place console this gen is doing considerably better than the second place console from last gen... in the us. in japan, it's one of the worst-performing systems that we have on record, and apparently it isn't doing so hot in europe (but not historically bad or anything). i look at the overall market and see fewer dedicated platforms being sold than before, and i think we might face with the reality that overall generation numbers may more closely resemble that of generation 5 without something to really pull everyone out of the muck. i don't know what that will be.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Nintendo NX, Nintendo uses a Netfront browser with the latest called NX. WebGL based games and Gaikai like Games able to be streamed from a new hardware platform like how the PS4, XB1 and Windows 10 platforms do it is likely what Nintendo's new partnership with DeNA is all about. Mobile games and game streaming in all it's forms.
The NX hardware platform would use a AMD Semi-custom SoC released in 2016 with HBM @28nm. With HBM the memory uses less power allowing a larger TDP and GPU block. One SoC (no southbridge) with full HSA using HSAIL and SPIR with a Vulcan OpenGL GPU driver. In volume this should be cheaper than the current XB1 and PS4 designs and possibly 20% or so more powerful than the PS4. It's OS, Linux or FreeBSD, should be fully supported by AMD without the workarounds now needed by the PS4 because HBM, HSAIL, SPIR and Vulcan were not ready.
The Nintendo NX will join the more than 10 other game consoles being released by 2016 because of the world wide convergence for TV (IPTV), Phone (VOIP) and Internet (IP) being served with DOCSIS 3.1 Cable Modems by 2017+.
Expect an announcement by DeNA of a partnership(s) with media providers and something similar to Sling and Playstation Vue.
Bringing Virtual Reality to the Web: VR, WebGL and CSS – Together At Last!.
The NX hardware platform would use a AMD Semi-custom SoC released in 2016 with HBM @28nm. With HBM the memory uses less power allowing a larger TDP and GPU block. One SoC (no southbridge) with full HSA using HSAIL and SPIR with a Vulcan OpenGL GPU driver. In volume this should be cheaper than the current XB1 and PS4 designs and possibly 20% or so more powerful than the PS4. It's OS, Linux or FreeBSD, should be fully supported by AMD without the workarounds now needed by the PS4 because HBM, HSAIL, SPIR and Vulcan were not ready.
The Nintendo NX will join the more than 10 other game consoles being released by 2016 because of the world wide convergence for TV (IPTV), Phone (VOIP) and Internet (IP) being served with DOCSIS 3.1 Cable Modems by 2017+.
Expect an announcement by DeNA of a partnership(s) with media providers and something similar to Sling and Playstation Vue.
The Samsung Note 4 has Tensilica Xtensa processors as does the XB1 and PS4 and I expect the Nintendo NX will also. A Xtensa processor of sufficient power can do Voice and gesture, Codecs, DRM and can post process video frames for a Oculus display.http://dena.com/intl/press/2015/01/dena-releases-protocol-zero-the-revolutionary-virtual-reality-3d-stealth-action-mobile-game-for-sams.html said:
Bringing Virtual Reality to the Web: VR, WebGL and CSS – Together At Last!.
I own several consoles from 80s to 10s and I can assure you the Wii is surely a dedicated video game console.
robor
Member
Tell that to the majority of its consumers who only bought that console.
I keep seeing this small little cube with a HDMI and USB port (packaged with all the legacy controllers Nintendo has made over the years).
Someone remember this:
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...vice_to_enable_3d_experiences_on_2d_displays/
Bring it ON
Think about it, still everyone can watch the game. The one with the headtracking glass has full experience.
The patent says it can do:
- Enhancing the VR experience Additional output devices that enhance the experience can be provided. For example, we can put light out that is correlated to the image to provide "ultra wide field of view correlated lighting." Given that your eye does not see clearly in the periphery, this could still be useful and interesting.
- Additionally, smell is a very strong sense. There may be some ways to produce aromas for a very strong experience.
- Virtual wind could enhance the experience.
- Temperature: blowing cool air on your face.
- Detect Emotions via monitoring mental state. Brain wave detection, detect eye movement, heart rate monitor or the like can be used. If we provide goggles, we can also provide detectors (electrodes) fairly easily.
The good thing is that it will not cross your eyes like other VR systems, oculus for example. It means you can expierience 3d without feeling sick.
Example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...vice_to_enable_3d_experiences_on_2d_displays/
Bring it ON
Think about it, still everyone can watch the game. The one with the headtracking glass has full experience.
The patent says it can do:
- Enhancing the VR experience Additional output devices that enhance the experience can be provided. For example, we can put light out that is correlated to the image to provide "ultra wide field of view correlated lighting." Given that your eye does not see clearly in the periphery, this could still be useful and interesting.
- Additionally, smell is a very strong sense. There may be some ways to produce aromas for a very strong experience.
- Virtual wind could enhance the experience.
- Temperature: blowing cool air on your face.
- Detect Emotions via monitoring mental state. Brain wave detection, detect eye movement, heart rate monitor or the like can be used. If we provide goggles, we can also provide detectors (electrodes) fairly easily.
The good thing is that it will not cross your eyes like other VR systems, oculus for example. It means you can expierience 3d without feeling sick.
Example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw
jeff_rigby
Banned
Just about all phones can do head tracking.....so the youtube video using Wii hardware to head track is not needed. 3D TVs and HMDs just add to the immersion.Someone remember this:
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...vice_to_enable_3d_experiences_on_2d_displays/
Bring it ON
Think about it, still everyone can watch the game. The one with the headtracking glass has full experience.
The patent says it can do:
- Enhancing the VR experience Additional output devices that enhance the experience can be provided. For example, we can put light out that is correlated to the image to provide "ultra wide field of view correlated lighting." Given that your eye does not see clearly in the periphery, this could still be useful and interesting.
- Additionally, smell is a very strong sense. There may be some ways to produce aromas for a very strong experience.
- Virtual wind could enhance the experience.
- Temperature: blowing cool air on your face.
- Detect Emotions via monitoring mental state. Brain wave detection, detect eye movement, heart rate monitor or the like can be used. If we provide goggles, we can also provide detectors (electrodes) fairly easily.
The good thing is that it will not cross your eyes like other VR systems, oculus for example. It means you can expierience 3d without feeling sick.
Example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw
Bringing Virtual Reality to the Web: VR, WebGL and CSS – Together At Last!.
WebGl, WebVR and the Metaverse
Tell them they bought a videogame console? I think they already know what they have purchased.