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Jaffe:"Is this biased journalism? Or is it just me?"
- Thread starter FrankT
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Oh no, please don't tell me Jaffe has jumped on the bus to crazytown, too.
- The last two Playstation consoles were great successes, especially the last one, which dominated the video game landscape.
- The PS3 is not a success. In fact, in this journalist's home territory, the console is in a far distant 3rd place. The console above it has sold more than 2x as much. The console in 1st place has sold about 3x as much.
The Playstation 3's story has been a complete reversal from the last two Playstation consoles. This is a major storyline. Doesn't mean it's not a good console, or doesn't have good games, or isn't worth buying, or will be discontinued shortly. But it has gotten trounced in North America, and the trajectory has gotten even worse lately. Should people not say this to spare others' feelings? Let's say CBS, who have been dominating the TV ratings for years, suddenly fell to a distant last place this year, how do you think journalists and the public at large are going to characterize it?
- The last two Playstation consoles were great successes, especially the last one, which dominated the video game landscape.
- The PS3 is not a success. In fact, in this journalist's home territory, the console is in a far distant 3rd place. The console above it has sold more than 2x as much. The console in 1st place has sold about 3x as much.
The Playstation 3's story has been a complete reversal from the last two Playstation consoles. This is a major storyline. Doesn't mean it's not a good console, or doesn't have good games, or isn't worth buying, or will be discontinued shortly. But it has gotten trounced in North America, and the trajectory has gotten even worse lately. Should people not say this to spare others' feelings? Let's say CBS, who have been dominating the TV ratings for years, suddenly fell to a distant last place this year, how do you think journalists and the public at large are going to characterize it?
Stoney Mason
Banned
davidjaffe said:
So since we saw the questions do we get to see your answers in full also? I'm too lazy to click on the link so maybe you provided them already.
AndresON777
shooting blanks
CorwinB said:
:lol :lol :lol
Post of the month
Flachmatuch
Member
It's just bad journalism, business as usual imo. The questions are phrased aggressively - you have to leave some space for loyalty without having to sound like a totally idiotic marketing droid. You don't pose questions like "what were they thinking", because there's no way to answer that respectfully.
They're also provocative without presenting the chance to be informative, which means this can't lead to a decent exchange of point of views - it's most probably just angers the person you're talking to which is completely pointless unless you want a sensationalistic bullshit piece and not a proper article with some insight.
The questions are all from the point of view of "Sony were SUCH ASSES LOL" - and that's not the way you talk to someone you want to have a decent conversation with. It's just stupid, shortsighted and childish, like 99% of games journalism.
On the other hand, the assumption that the PS3 is not a resounding success is not that far-fetched imho
They're also provocative without presenting the chance to be informative, which means this can't lead to a decent exchange of point of views - it's most probably just angers the person you're talking to which is completely pointless unless you want a sensationalistic bullshit piece and not a proper article with some insight.
The questions are all from the point of view of "Sony were SUCH ASSES LOL" - and that's not the way you talk to someone you want to have a decent conversation with. It's just stupid, shortsighted and childish, like 99% of games journalism.
On the other hand, the assumption that the PS3 is not a resounding success is not that far-fetched imho
Zombie James
Banned
davidjaffe said:
(neutral) davidjaffe
The Fucking MAN.
(Today, 02:12 PM)
Reply | Quote
Jaffe, I'm going to need you to hand in your cool card.
It's called not being asked questions by a games journalist. People loved Hsu when he asked MS similarly phrased questions about the "tard pack" and rightly so.
With games journalism the publisher holds ALL the cards, people are so lucky to be allowed contact with the devs and are so bound by NDAs they only ever ask the softest fluffiest questions in a vain hope the developer will say something other than the PR release he's been told to parrot. This is a real news network, they don't need you. Either answer the questions with some truth or they'll just find someone else.
Remember that pre-E3 interview by Sony on CNN Money or something like that and the exec tried to put some of the more retarded excuses out there and the interviewer blasted him for it?
It's called not being asked questions by a games journalist. People loved Hsu when he asked MS similarly phrased questions about the "tard pack" and rightly so.
With games journalism the publisher holds ALL the cards, people are so lucky to be allowed contact with the devs and are so bound by NDAs they only ever ask the softest fluffiest questions in a vain hope the developer will say something other than the PR release he's been told to parrot. This is a real news network, they don't need you. Either answer the questions with some truth or they'll just find someone else.
Remember that pre-E3 interview by Sony on CNN Money or something like that and the exec tried to put some of the more retarded excuses out there and the interviewer blasted him for it?
That was a bad example because I'd love that also.Vinci said:
It doesn't matter that MSBC employees aren't MGS employees. The point is that they are in a related company, what is bad for one devision is bad for them all. The concept of the article itself is not the issue, if it came out of BBC or something it'd be fine. And the PS3's lacking the States is a perfectly expectable subject of discussion. It shouldn't have had a BluRay player and it should have been a lot cheaper. But for Microsoft to be putting out this article is not appropriate. They didn't email Jaffe after his opinion of the 360s system failure rate or anything.
I'm not even saying it is bias, I'm saying it should not be written by any company under the Microsoft umbrella.
sloppyjoe_gamer
Member
"Here is the email in question:
+++++++++
David,
I'm working on a story for MSNBC examining the life-to-date chronology of the PS3. As a respected PlayStation developer, would you be willing to answer a few questions? In the interest you are, here goes:"
Do we really need to know anything else? :lol :lol
+++++++++
David,
I'm working on a story for MSNBC examining the life-to-date chronology of the PS3. As a respected PlayStation developer, would you be willing to answer a few questions? In the interest you are, here goes:"
Do we really need to know anything else? :lol :lol
The Faceless Master
Member
the thing is, several of your points sound just like what all the fanboys say.davidjaffe said:
the difference between many of those sony exclusives and many of t hose microsoft one is simple.
sales numbers.
i mean, i have both systems and play games on both but i understand that continued low sales will equal a slow death.
Stoney Mason
Banned
sloppyjoe_gamer said:
Will the world never stop their unrelenting bias and assault against the PS3!
davidjaffe said:
I think his conclusion is firmly in his head, yeah. I won't deny that. But then, many of us - and no, not just people who hate the PS3 - want to know why these decisions were made and how they affected people working within the confines of them? So I can see why those questions are being asked.
Do you feel that the GameCube was a failure? The reason people consider the PS3 a failure isn't simply because of its placement in the console war, it's because it has a hard time selling software (much like the PSP) and even its fans suggest the reason it's still getting multi-platform support is thanks to the 360 giving it leftovers essentially. That's not an impressive situation to be in.
Fair enough.
Kill Your Masters
Member
But does it really have to do with this, or the financial situation Sony is, not only after the crisis? Because I cannot see any indication to what exactly he is referring when talking about the PS3 as "failure".
forgeforsaken
Member
davidjaffe said:
Ok, first off you assume the 360 stuff isn't in the article because you weren't asked but why would you be? You don't work on 360 games, period, I know I wouldn't ask your opinions of the hardware either, for that I'd be hitting up CliffyB.
Second, I still don't see how it's relevant. It seems you want it brought up because it puts MS in a negative light and makes Sony look better, but if you're doing an article explicitly about Sony and the trouble they've had remaining the number one gaming platform across generations why would you talk about the 360's problems?
It almost sounds like you want a "yeah Sony is no longer number 1 in the market, but man their console really is still the best!" article.
What does he expect, it's the media, they need a story. Things are seen as win-lose, profit-loss. The PS3 is "losing" in both marketshare (in absolute terms, and relative to PS2 generation) and mindshare, and it's still losing money and won't be profitable for some time, while it's competitors are already making money. The fact that the PS3 is still a viable gaming platform that some people still passionately love doesn't mean anything to the news, because it's still the loser. You don't see stories about how great Yahoo is because it's still viable and good, you just read about how Google is number 1 and way better than Yahoo.
Byakuya769
Member
markatisu said:
nope, pointed it out first : P
goldenpp72
Member
wait for 2011 people, dis be the comeback YEAR FOREVA
Felix Lighter
Member
The real story about the PS3 and why it's considered such a disappointment business wise has much less to do with how it's doing compared to the Xbox 360 and much more to do with how it's doing compared to the PS2. Maybe the writer isn't asking Xbox 360 question because it's irrelevant to this story.
If the story was making the claim that the PS3 is a complete failure and the Xbox 360 is a complete success than 360 should have been mentioned but I doubt that is the real story. The real story, I would think is the sudden position change Sony finds its self in this generation, after 2 generations of run away success.
If the story was making the claim that the PS3 is a complete failure and the Xbox 360 is a complete success than 360 should have been mentioned but I doubt that is the real story. The real story, I would think is the sudden position change Sony finds its self in this generation, after 2 generations of run away success.
Flachmatuch
Member
BobsRevenge said:
I disagree, I don't think it's "biased" (I don't know how posing questions can be biased tbh, but this is "just" semantics) - the PS3 is obviously doing pretty badly. It's just really incredibly bad journalism and I'd fire the guy who posed those idiotic questions in such a provocative assholish way immediately. Seriously, "what were they thinking"? Really? He works for Sony ffs, you don't push the guy you want to have an interview with into a corner with your first fucking question.
The more I read those questions, the more I'd like to hit that self-important idiot who wrote them :-D
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
It may not be your cup of tea but to a lot of folks that is the cream of the crop in MLB games.markatisu said:
Jaffe responded greatly to the usual naysayers and users who try and twist his words. This can be a very immature and twisted place.
needlesmcgirk
Member
Someone please tell me what makes something a "failure."
Is it just the simple fact that it has not turned a profit?
I think that there are a whole lot of other factors to look into here. I agree that the PS3 is not selling nearly as well as Sony would have hoped, and yes MS is clearly beating them as far as sales and market share go, but this is not what its all about.
Sony is a very diverse company with many interests in mind. Blu Ray is a huge product for them and look what the presence of the PS3 did to the new format war. Sony sells HD TVs, so think how many people bought a new Sony TV to go with their PS3 - I'm sure its significant.
There is no way that you can look at this thing right now and determine that its a failure based on sales, market share, and profit. This is something that you have to look back at and question this, seeing all of the influences (purchases, technology, etc.) that came from it.
Other than this, it's only been out for 2 years now. The PS2 is still selling great almost 10 years later and making Sony profit. Anyone that says its a failure right now is strictly speculating and a total idiot when it comes to business.
Is it just the simple fact that it has not turned a profit?
I think that there are a whole lot of other factors to look into here. I agree that the PS3 is not selling nearly as well as Sony would have hoped, and yes MS is clearly beating them as far as sales and market share go, but this is not what its all about.
Sony is a very diverse company with many interests in mind. Blu Ray is a huge product for them and look what the presence of the PS3 did to the new format war. Sony sells HD TVs, so think how many people bought a new Sony TV to go with their PS3 - I'm sure its significant.
There is no way that you can look at this thing right now and determine that its a failure based on sales, market share, and profit. This is something that you have to look back at and question this, seeing all of the influences (purchases, technology, etc.) that came from it.
Other than this, it's only been out for 2 years now. The PS2 is still selling great almost 10 years later and making Sony profit. Anyone that says its a failure right now is strictly speculating and a total idiot when it comes to business.
plagiarize
Banned
why can't someone write an article about the PS3's failure when compared to the PS2? i'd love to read an expose kind of thing detailing the behind the scenes decisions that went into turning the PS3 into the expensive high end hardware it is. i'd love to find out who is and was pointing fingers at who. who jumped. who was pushed.
i don't think the PS3 is a failure taken by itself. i believe that it's making Sony money in a time when a lot of Sony's divisions aren't. i believe it was instrumental in positioning them as well as they were in the Blu-Ray sector...
but i don't for one second believe there wasn't any turmoil behind the scenes, or that everyone was happy with the direction the PS3 was heading behind the scenes.
David, I don't see ANY mention of the 360 in questions you were posed. I don't see how the 360's failings would be relevant in a piece about the PS3 failing to perform as well as expected. What would that question look like?
"Why do you think the PS3 has failed to sell as well as the 360 even though Microsoft made huge missteps with the HD-DVD add on and the hardware failures?"
Would be about the only question i can think of and I doubt that would be any more palatable to you .
None of the questions relate to the Wii or the 360 in positive or negative ways.
The GameCube wasn't a failure in and of itself, but I'd still love to read a similarly focussed article on Nintendo during it's time as again it underperformed compared to expectations and it's predecessors.
I'd guess his points are laid out in the questions, but he's giving you a chance to respond to them.
I hope you do.
i don't think the PS3 is a failure taken by itself. i believe that it's making Sony money in a time when a lot of Sony's divisions aren't. i believe it was instrumental in positioning them as well as they were in the Blu-Ray sector...
but i don't for one second believe there wasn't any turmoil behind the scenes, or that everyone was happy with the direction the PS3 was heading behind the scenes.
David, I don't see ANY mention of the 360 in questions you were posed. I don't see how the 360's failings would be relevant in a piece about the PS3 failing to perform as well as expected. What would that question look like?
"Why do you think the PS3 has failed to sell as well as the 360 even though Microsoft made huge missteps with the HD-DVD add on and the hardware failures?"
Would be about the only question i can think of and I doubt that would be any more palatable to you .
None of the questions relate to the Wii or the 360 in positive or negative ways.
The GameCube wasn't a failure in and of itself, but I'd still love to read a similarly focussed article on Nintendo during it's time as again it underperformed compared to expectations and it's predecessors.
I'd guess his points are laid out in the questions, but he's giving you a chance to respond to them.
I hope you do.
jaffe said:
What the hell, jaffe, you're supposed to be a studio head. you must know something about business. The PS3 isn't dead by any means but as product and from a business POV it is a failure. How much market share has Sony lost? They went from first to decidely last. The competitors are significantly beyond them in sales.
Any economics journalist will see this as a failure.
but to claim these upcoming games are going to swing it around for Sony like you were in your post is fucking stupid.
BobsRevenge
I do not avoid women, GAF, but I do deny them my essence.
The only thing I have trouble with is your notion that the article should involve the 360 at all. Just because it is trying to point out some missteps of the PS3 it doesn't mean it has to point out missteps for the 360 to provide some sort of weird justice.davidjaffe said:
But yeah man, I can't believe people are sitting in this thread thinking that this is acceptable or professional interviewing. If I was sent that e-mail I'd be offended that someone would think I'd even be interested in answering questions in such a poorly written interview.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Perfect example of:
Whoo boy look at dem fuckin' titties.
Whoo boy look at dem fuckin' titties.
Seem like valid questions to me. Was Sony's blueprint too have them finish in third? If not, seems like those are valid questions to ask second-parties. Maybe it's naive to think they're gonna actually respond on record to mistakes they wish Sony hadn't have made, but they're certainly not unreasonable. That's not fanboyish. I though it was already agreed on GAF that a 600 dollar launch was stupid.
davidjaffe
The Fucking MAN.
I am SO NOT afraid of tough questions. Read my post: these questions would have been fine if they had been tossed in with questions that also acknowledged that it was not all gloom and doom. And I don't want him to acknowledge that to make me feel better...I want it acknowledged because it is the truth and to write an article about PS3 and remove the areas of success it has had (and the strongest aspects that could turn the tide even more) is to enter into a piece on the PS3 with your conclusion in hand. To me, this feels wrong.
I love when journalists hold feet to fire- that is their job. But there's a difference between writing a slanted piece and being a tough reporter not afraid to ask the tough questions.
And no, the Gamecube was not a failure. It had some amazing games and made many people happy. You could put its sell thru numbers up against Ps2 and on those terms call it significantly less successful than the PS2...but even then, I would not call it a failure.
I love when journalists hold feet to fire- that is their job. But there's a difference between writing a slanted piece and being a tough reporter not afraid to ask the tough questions.
And no, the Gamecube was not a failure. It had some amazing games and made many people happy. You could put its sell thru numbers up against Ps2 and on those terms call it significantly less successful than the PS2...but even then, I would not call it a failure.
Grampa Simpson
Banned
davidjaffe said:
I was totally with you on the biased part. I agree completely that that's where the journalist was coming from. It's just the whole List Wars of upcoming games argument gets played around here repeatedly and never seems to pan out that it's become it's own sort of joke after GTAIV, Uncharted, MGS4, and Resistance 2 failed to set the hardware charts on fire. For the GAF contingent you sort of derailed your own rant.
PS3 is definitely not dead. Like many of you mentioned, being a third place doesn't mean much. There are also many good games that I'm looking forward to on the system.
However, I do NOT believe Sony planned for the PS3 to be in the last place, or aimed to just be able to say "Look at our numbers. It's ALMOST profitable despite being $200 more expensive than competitors!". Sony wanted to be #1 and be the most profitable when they launched the PS3. But the reality right now is that it's not. When the reality does not match the goal, I personally do call it "failure".
However, I do NOT believe Sony planned for the PS3 to be in the last place, or aimed to just be able to say "Look at our numbers. It's ALMOST profitable despite being $200 more expensive than competitors!". Sony wanted to be #1 and be the most profitable when they launched the PS3. But the reality right now is that it's not. When the reality does not match the goal, I personally do call it "failure".
AndresON777
shooting blanks
Jaffee only makes games for sony right?
So wouldnt he biased as well?
So wouldnt he biased as well?
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