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[Prime crotch]

The Airborne Assault/Command Ops series shows that you can create great strategic/tactical games even without turns, so that's not the real problem here. The thing is that they are remaking a game that is the epitome of turn based games. They are remaking it, not making a new game (that would be JA3) - if they strip it of its most recognizable feature, what's the point in it? JA's TB system has some room for improvement (as shown by patch 1.13): they should go in that direction, instead of ditching it completely.

JA2 big issue with combat was not scaling that well, turning it into something more like Frozen Synapse, which is what it sounds like, or what I'd hope, fixes that while allowing breaching into a bigger market.
A graphical remake is great and all but it's costly and a bigger problem is the competition from a free mod; they could never dismiss the far cheaper option that is getting JA2 and the 1.13 patch. And why not? It's not like JA2 is a terribly ugly game.

 

[Llyranor]

The Airborne Assault/Command Ops series shows that you can create great strategic/tactical games even without turns

Jolly crap, I love you.

I LOVE YOU.

JA2 big issue with combat was not scaling that well, turning it into something more like Frozen Synapse, which is what it sounds like, or what I'd hope, fixes that while allowing breaching into a bigger market.

There are ways to improve upon the turn-based system. Changing it completely can't really be called an improvement. Improving on what?

Larger scale battles? Allow simultaneous or semi-simultaneous execution/animation of enemy turns (while still processing it completely turn-based in the background), the way TOEE did it. There are many ways to make turn-based combat not feel 'slow' and 'tedious'.

 

[Rolf NB]

At the very least they should be keeping all of the great dialogue and voice acting... right?

Great, now you jinxed it even more.

 

[Mimir]

JA2 big issue with combat was not scaling that well, turning it into something more like Frozen Synapse, which is what it sounds like, or what I'd hope, fixes that while allowing breaching into a bigger market.
A graphical remake is great and all but it's costly and a bigger problem is the competition from a free mod; they could never dismiss the far cheaper option that is getting JA2 and the 1.13 patch. And why not? It's not like JA2 is a terribly ugly game.
It makes sense changing things up a bit, remains to be seen if it's any good or not.

You're going to be severely disappointed if you think this will be like Frozen Synapse. This will clearly be a real-time system with an optional pause, rather than a WeGo system.

 

[Prime crotch]

There are ways to improve upon the turn-based system. Changing it completely can't really be called an improvement. Improving on what?

Larger scale battles? Allow simultaneous or semi-simultaneous execution/animation of enemy turns (while still processing it completely turn-based in the background), the way TOEE did it. There are many ways to make turn-based combat not feel 'slow' and 'tedious'.

Another is to make it a pause-action system, which really sometimes is just turn-based in disguise. Some of the JA inspired titles like 7.62 went this route and it worked, were the games not a buggy mess for reasons other than the combat system, it could have continued the Ja tradition.
I'd still prefer a Frozen Synapse like system, but pause and action has worked nicely before.

 

[Versipellis]

JA2 big issue with combat was not scaling that well, turning it into something more like Frozen Synapse, which is what it sounds like, or what I'd hope, fixes that while allowing breaching into a bigger market.

FS is very interesting and I would love to see its system applied to a JA-like game. But it's still turn based and I don't think it will breach (pun intended?) into a bigger market. And, as others pointed out, it doesn't seem similiar to what Bitcomposer have in mind.
And I agree with you when you say that you can still play JA2 (which is still playable), and I'll add that if Bitcomposer were going to ditch TB for JA3, why they should bother recreating/improving a turn based system for just one game (they'd have to create it from scratch)? The thing I'm too naif to understand is why they bother doing this "remake" at all: they had to redraw all the models/backgrounds in 3D, which is pretty expensive even if you have access to the old game files. Moreover, they're pissing off some of their (already small) potential fanbase, the one that could give them some "free advertising and modding" support and it doesn't seem to me that RTwP is a system that can gather masses of new gamers.
Just pull a Bethesda and create a JA3 the way you like (no, I don't like F3) and don't waste resources on a fake remake.

 

[charlequin]

Sad news: it seems that they ditched Turn Based combat and Line of Sight.

:lol GTFO

The turn-based system would probably kept JA2 as a niche thing

The only thing making "turn-based" into a niche quality is thousands of drones across the gaming industry buying the myth that no one likes turn-based games.

 

[EviLore]

I have a great idea guys, let's remake X-Com! That turn-based combat is so archaic and clunky though, we'd better ditch it. I'm sure everyone will recognize the fantastic job we'll do with our new real-time engine.

 

[Llyranor]

I have a great idea guys, let's remake X-Com! That turn-based combat is so archaic and clunky though, we'd better ditch it. I'm sure everyone will recognize the fantastic job we'll do with our new real-time engine.

That sounds like a great idea. Let's call it X-Com Enforcer Xtreme.

 

[dak1dsk1]

Yeah, well, port it to Xbox and then I'll care.

 

[Sinatar]

What a wasted opportunity. Nobody has managed to outdo what JA2's tactical engine did for a reason, it was amazing.

This nonsense about people not buying turn based games gives me a headache. Someone better go tell Firaxis and Square Enix to go burn all that money they're making cause it must be make believe.

 

[bhlaab]

That sounds like a great idea. Let's call it X-Com Enforcer Xtreme.

Or let's call it Blob Force: Legend of the Black Goo and make it a FPS

Another is to make it a pause-action system, which really sometimes is just turn-based in disguise.

No. It's not.

 

[Decado]

lol

The whole thing was too good to be true. Sounds like another fuck up.

Just when I thought I was going to get back into PC gaming...

 

[Chairman Yang]

I'm sure the switch away from turn-based combat will garner huge sales for this game. Old JA fans will no doubt appreciate the modernization, and the developers will probably be able to grab lots of new players who usually only buy action games because they find strategy games too slow. Think of getting just 10% of Call of Duty players!

Meanwhile, the dinosaurs who make archaic games like Civilization 5, Pokemon, Dragon Quest, and countless Facebook/Flash/IPhone games will vainly try to cling to their tiny and ever-shrinking niche market.

 

[Wallach]

JA2 with a modern UI? Excellent.

Exactly what I thought. New graphics don't look bad at all either.

Edit - Oh fuck I didn't read the later news about the game changes. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

 

[-tetsuo-]

I opened this thread excited. Now, I am confused and angry.

 

[Technosteve]

I do agree that missions would get out of hand and take a long time when in turn based mode, but couldn't they just fix the AI processing time? This isn't 1999 where a CPU turn would take minutes, I have a quad core processor it should think in nanoseconds. Going real time i might as well play a RTS, unless they do turn based actions like Fallout 3 Vats???


SO CONFUSED WHY FIX IT WHEN I JUST WANT A GRAPHICS UPDATE!

 

[Danne-Danger]

Eh, I don't mind it. As long as it has all the character customization and stuff I'm sure I'll have a good time with it. And who knows, maybe it'll turn out to be a great decision on their part!

 

[Prime crotch]

This nonsense about people not buying turn based games gives me a headache. Someone better go tell Firaxis and Square Enix to go burn all that money they're making cause it must be make believe.

Because brand recognition has nothing to do with it as well. Let's be honest, JA doesnt exactly have the appeal of a big name like X-com or Civ. And does Square even make turn based games anymore? (honest question, I cant recall any apart from the Tactics Ogre remake)

 

[Sectus]

I have a great idea guys, let's remake X-Com! That turn-based combat is so archaic and clunky though, we'd better ditch it. I'm sure everyone will recognize the fantastic job we'll do with our new real-time engine.

Well, to be fair, the realtime mode in X-Com Apocalypse worked quite well. Especially with how they also added gravity for destroying buildings.

But oh well... X-Com has gone as low as it can go with this new game anyway. I've lost all hope for that series. At least they're trying to keep some kind of tactical gameplay for this JA2 remake.

 

[subversus]

I hate turn-based combat with some rare exceptions but love isometric games. Will check this out.

 

[DiscoJer]

I have a great idea guys, let's remake X-Com! That turn-based combat is so archaic and clunky though, we'd better ditch it. I'm sure everyone will recognize the fantastic job we'll do with our new real-time engine.

Better yet, let's turn it into an FPS. And let's make X-com part of the FBI.

(Oh wait, that's what actually happened. And probably reboot more than remake, but still...)

 

[Chairman Yang]

Because brand recognition has nothing to do with it as well. Let's be honest, JA doesnt exactly have the appeal of a big name like X-com or Civ. And does Square even make turn based games anymore? (honest question, I cant recall any apart from the Tactics Ogre remake)

Of Square's releases last year, the two biggest sellers by far were both turn-based.

 

[Sectus]

Impressions and screenshots on the game: http://gdc.gamespot.com/story/6302301/jagged-alliance-back-in-action-impressions-first-look

However, it sounds like bitComposer may be planning to rerecord the audio dialogue for its mercenaries

... and there went the little bit of hope I had left for this project.

Edit:

At the very least they should be keeping all of the great dialogue and voice acting... right?

Great, now you jinxed it even more.

... fucking hell. I'm so sorry D: