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[rotaryspirit]

Looking the other way and sweeping it under the rug are pretty much the same thing.

if I'm not doing anything to fix the racism in America, why should I really bother about what the Japanese are doing?

I'm not doing anything. Maybe because I'm a white male, I'm fine with how things are. I don't care if Chinese people whisper behind my back when I go to the market, I don't really care if I have to wait a while longer to get into the rap clubs. I didn't care when I worked at a toy store as a teenager and black women would get up into my face and literally scream at me, calling me a racist for kicking their kids out of the store when they were there unattended with a parent.

I think in 99.1% of all situations where there is discrimination based on skin color involved, you can change those people's minds through communication and hard work about you as an individual. I try not to see color in people but who they are. That's all "personal" racism I suppose, when it has to do with my own self.

I don't like the fact that the Chinese and Koreans are just as racist to the Japanese but tend to get free passes for it simply because Japan beat them in war. I don't like the fact that the Japanese treat the burakumin, Ainu, and some other foreigners the way they do. I don't like that my own family and cousins become more and more racist towards Mexicans and blacks as time goes on instead of the opposite. But I'm a white male. If I get rationally involved with any kind of these larger racial issues about prejudice, I'm still going to be seen as an outsider within that community and within my own community. You see it going on in this thread. I could become a raving lunatic like Debito, but that just furthers the racial stereotype.

I've already stated what I do. I try to convince people on a personal basis, based on my own upstanding character that hey - maybe all white people aren't bad. Maybe all foreigners aren't so bad. That's what I do. It isn't sweeping it under the rug, it just isn't putting myself up on a pedestal for one specific cause.

I know quite a lot of zainichi Koreans and a lot of the older generation are very open with their anti-Japaneseness. I know one girl, who is now studying abroad in the United States, who said that she never had any Japanese friends until she came to America. She grew up thinking Japanese people were scary because her parents and her ethnic-school taught her in this manner.

I had the opposite happen. One of my Korean housemates who I was tutoring in English in exchange for help with my Korean homework loved Japan and Japanese, so we would talk about that between sessions. Then one week I didn't see her so much, and she always seemed to be locked in her room. I heard from her friend that in one of the history courses she was taking, it was taught by a Japanese professor (born and raised in Canada) who said some things contrary to what she was taught in Korea about the Japanese-Korean war. She took offense to that and he called her out on mis-education when she brought it up to him in class and later again in office hours. After that, she threw away all of her manga and didn't really talk to me so much, saying I was "being too corrupted by Japan" and "could never fully learn Korean because of it."

 

[VeritasVierge]

Just finished reading the thread. Lot of interesting comments in here.

I've been here 7 1/2 years (about as long as obsolete if I'm not mistaken), and I've had a few issues, but nothing really major. The worst things that have happened to me are A) being refused a nice apartment because "the owner is old and doesn't like white people" (but that worked out in the end, because the apartment I ended up getting afterwards was all sorts of kickass), and B) getting refused by open taxis because I'm a foreigner.

The apartment thing was disappointing, but I got over it and decided not to be too angry. Ultimately I just feel sorry for people who think that way. As for taxi drivers, I've learned a few tricks to ensure they'll take me no matter what now, so that's no longer an issue.
.

The funny thing about your story is it echoes same exact things that happened to me. Only I'm black and was in Manhattan, NY.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

It may be a bit more visible in certain situations, but I would argue that actual racist sentiment is less prominent in Japan society than it is an many western states.

If these things came out in a newspaper article about Texas or Florida, everybody here would pounce on them and say how horrible they were. So how then, do they cease to be worth speaking against if they happen in Japan? I keep seeing this defence of "well bad stuff happens in America too" - yes, and that bothers you, doesn't it? Especially if it's Japan - and not the west - where you actually live?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I had the opposite happen. One of my Korean housemates who I was tutoring in English in exchange for help with my Korean homework loved Japan and Japanese, so we would talk about that between sessions. Then one week I didn't see her so much, and she always seemed to be locked in her room. I heard from her friend that in one of the history courses she was taking, it was taught by a Japanese professor (born and raised in Canada) who said some things contrary to what she was taught in Korea about the Japanese-Korean war. She took offense to that and he called her out on mis-education when she brought it up to him in class and later again in office hours. After that, she threw away all of her manga and didn't really talk to me so much, saying I was "being too corrupted by Japan" and "could never fully learn Korean because of it."

Yeah the education that goes on in Korea, and China as well, to this day is definitely a problem. It is inherently anti-Japanese and can get a bit extreme in some cases. I saw this one report about some of the more extreme attitudes in public education in Korea and in one scene it visited an elementary school around the time of the 2005 anti-Japanese riots in Korea and China. The children were drawing anti-Japanese propaganda and were being encouraged by the teachers. One student drew a picture of Japan sinking into the ocean and wrote something like "the world would be at peace if Japan just sunk into the ocean." and he was praised by his teacher. Then they all sung a song which lyrics went along the lines of "Dokdo is part of Korea, Dokdo is our land! Don't give up Dokdo!" because at the time the Takeshima / Dokdo debate was in full swing. It was really scary to see the public education system indoctrinating such strong anti-Japanese sentiment in elementary school children. I really hope this type of education is not widespread in Korea and was just a one time thing, but I am skeptical.

While there is some revisionism in Japanese history textbooks and a lot of issues that are simply glossed over in public education in Japan, there definitely aren't courses that encourage violent anti-Japanese / anti-Chinese sentiments.

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

I don't like the fact that the Chinese and Koreans are just as racist to the Japanese but tend to get free passes for it simply because Japan beat them in war. I don't like the fact that the Japanese treat the burakumin, Ainu, and some other foreigners the way they do. I don't like that my own family and cousins become more and more racist towards Mexicans and blacks as time goes on instead of the opposite. But I'm a white male. If I get rationally involved with any kind of these larger racial issues about prejudice, I'm still going to be seen as an outsider within that community and within my own community. You see it going on in this thread. I could become a raving lunatic like Debito, but that just furthers the racial stereotype.

I've already stated what I do. I try to convince people on a personal basis, based on my own upstanding character that hey - maybe all white people aren't bad. Maybe all foreigners aren't so bad. That's what I do. It isn't sweeping it under the rug, it just isn't putting myself up on a pedestal for one specific cause.

:lol Okay, so that's pretty much exactly how I feel (with the exception of the family stuff). It's not like I'm out there with a placard or anything, and in my own daily dealings with people I try to be as 和-compliant as I can manage. I just objected to many of the first few posts in this thread acting as though racism didn't exist in Japan when in fact the whole culture is defined around the notion of 内 & 外, and many of the expressions of that can't be labeled as anything but racist, and the fact that there are some very big skeletons in the closet that people didn't seem to be aware of.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

If these things came out in a newspaper article about Texas or Florida, everybody here would pounce on them and say how horrible they were. So how then, do they cease to be worth speaking against if they happen in Japan? I keep seeing this defence of "well bad stuff happens in America too" - yes, and that bothers you, doesn't it? Especially if it's Japan - and not the west - where you actually live?

Well the squallid state of the Katrina victims sure seems to have fallen out of the media limelight. The reason people bring up "bad, and even worse stuff happens elsewhere" is to counteract the idea that some posters like to promote which is that racism is unique to Japan. It's always good to make comparisons in order to get a better perspective.

And while I am in Seattle at the moment, I reside in Japan and probably will for the forseeable future.

 

[Skittleguy]

Fucking nuns...

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

Stop believing everything you read, being ignorant, etc.
Go and have fun; tired of people too scared to travel. It's sad.

 

[rotaryspirit]

Yeah the education that goes on in Korea, and China as well, to this day is definitely a problem. It is inherently anti-Japanese and can get a bit extreme in some cases. I saw this one report about some of the more extreme attitudes in public education in Korea and in one scene it visited an elementary school around the time of the 2005 anti-Japanese riots in Korea and China. The children were drawing anti-Japanese propaganda and were being encouraged by the teachers. One student drew a picture of Japan sinking into the ocean and wrote something like "the world would be at peace if Japan just sunk into the ocean." and he was praised by his teacher. Then they all sung a song which lyrics went along the lines of "Dokdo is part of Korea, Dokdo is our land! Don't give up Dokdo!" because at the time the Takeshima / Dokdo debate was in full swing. It was really scary to see the public education system indoctrinating such strong anti-Japanese sentiment in elementary school children. I really hope this type of education is not widespread in Korea and was just a one time thing, but I am skeptical.

While there is some revisionism in Japanese history textbooks and a lot of issues that are simply glossed over in public education in Japan, there definitely aren't courses that encourage violent anti-Japanese / anti-Chinese sentiments.

This is exactly the kind of stuff that kills me when every year or so China and Korea make a huge fuss about what goes on in Japanese textbooks and demand apologies. It's so hard to imagine that kind of thing going on inside an system that is supposed to be "educating" children - but then we have the same kind of bullshit going on in America on different levels. To me, it's more of a shock because it can be so virulent and altruistic. Then you have the people in Korea who constantly claim every Japanese celebrity is somehow of Korean decent, or that Korea once ruled all of China and Japan, that their nation was founded from the son of a bear (yay Tangun!) etc.

Then again, we aren't citizens of a country that was nearly entire conquered (China) or conquered once (Korea) by an island nation they considered barbarians. :lol :lol That really kills me sometimes.

 

[Miburou]

Interesting thread.

Btw, it makes a pretty big difference whether you're a white foreigner or not, and whether you speak Japanese or not. As a Middle Eastern, I've had encounters that my white friend never encountered. And I've been able to talk my way into some "Japanese only" establishments by telling them that I know the rules, am a nice person, etc.

Also, Tokyo seems the worst to me, especially the police, while Fukuoka is probably the place I felt most welcome in.

And as some have pointed out, racism seems to be officially tolerated, which is not the case in most western countries. I was shocked when a good friend of mine who had lived in Canada for a couple of years told me that she truly believes most crimes in Japan are committed by foreigners, and that requiring foreigners to carry their passports with them wherever they go is a good thing.

Having said that, my close to 1 year of living there has been overall a very pleasant experience despite my being dark skinned, and I had a lot of friends there, and have met some really nice people (even those who don't speak any English).

 

[rykomatsu]

And as some have pointed out, racism seems to be officially tolerated, which is not the case in most western countries. I was shocked when a good friend of mine who had lived in Canada for a couple of years told me that she truly believes most crimes in Japan are committed by foreigners, and that requiring foreigners to carry their passports with them wherever they go is a good thing.

I don't see a problem with this...it's a parallel to requiring a US permanent resident to carry their greencard at all times in the US.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=4f719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD

about 2/3 of the way down is the section that dictates this.

 

[Stinkles]

I don't see a problem with this...it's a parallel to requiring a US permanent resident to carry their greencard at all times in the US.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=4f719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD

about 2/3 of the way down is the section that dictates this.

I had to do this and it's

a) Annoying
b) Risky (losing a Green Card is a big deal)
c) Utterly Pointless

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

Japan has it's own card for foreigners to carry, the gaikokujin torokusho. It's really not a big deal, you leave it in your wallet and forget about it, and it's pretty convenient since you can use it as ID. If the cops catch you without it it can be a big problem, but honestly the only time a cop even asked me for it was when one was going door to door checking up on the neighbourhood.

I didn't even think the fingerprinting thing at customs was a big deal. It takes all of 30 seconds, and when they photographed me they didn't even ask me to take my hat off.

 

[Jake.]

when they photographed me they didn't even ask me to take my hat off.

same here, i was amazed. london dudes took my hat off and then scanned it.

 

[winston_pr]

Debito doesn't understand Japan. Japanese language perhaps - but not the geist of Japanese society. Some would coin him an attention seeking besserwisser, and I would not protest that description.

 

[winston_pr]

Btw, it makes a pretty big difference whether you're a white foreigner or not, and whether you speak Japanese or not. As a Middle Eastern, I've had encounters that my white friend never encountered.

Unfortunately this is becoming true for middle-eastern people in many many countries, including the US. Not a Japan specific problem - however unfortunate.

 

[BudokaiMR2]

Also, Tokyo seems the worst to me, especially the police, while Fukuoka is probably the place I felt most welcome in.

Hell yeah! Fukuoka is indeed awesome!

I decided to stay out of these threads after the last one, but just needed to add this. :lol