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Japanese Sales: 2012 Jul 02 - Jul 08
- Thread starter Chris1964
- Start date
In US, they're selling probably much more ( this also due to much more games with at least some sales possibilities compared to first DS period, obvious, but still): Lego games, Sonic Generations ( probably, the best selling SKU of the game), Skylanders, we could count TotA too...this aren't doing bad, and most of them are having legs ( Sonic started with less than 20k in its first days, now it's around / over 250k ). Basically, UK is not the world.
electroplankton
Banned
September 20-23.
Oh, still so far away.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
I don't think you're following, I'm not saying Rising was canceled for Vita or anything, I'm just saying your qualifiers for outright dismissing it originally (outsourced, no Fox engine) are entirely irrelevant bevause they had mothing to do with the original everything-Kojipro-on-Vita line. Personally, I think Kojima's initial comments were taken too literally (as he didn't even really say all their future games would see Vita ports) but some degree of platform reevaluation taking place wouldn't surprise me either. I mean come on, Vita's prospects today are a whole lot different than they were in June 2011.
If ZOE HD Vita was shelved, it's really down to market conditions and not much else. Bluepoint didn't even touch MGS HD Vita either, so I'm not sure why you'd bring them up as a possibility.
If you think Kojima's words were taken out of context than why are we even arguing?
The reason I brought up Bluepoint was due to the fact that they're, you know, doing the ZoE HD Collection. While Armature did the Vita port of the MGS HD Collection it would certainly be easier to get it all done at Bluepoint for ZoE Vita to launch alongside the other two. But as the Collection isn't running at 1080p on PS3, or 360 I thought there might be some technical issues in getting it running. Konami sweeping the Vita version under the rug is bizarre, because unlike "all future KojiPro games will be on Vita", Kojima went on stage and announced ZoE for Vita at TGS.
More than TGS it will be important to understand the pre-TGS period. Usually we get a lot of Famitsu announcments/Softco conference announcments weeks before the Fair.
It will be crucial especially for Vita and Wii U, because up to now they seems weak (in two different ways, because Nintendo IP could be strong).
About Vita, I think that Sony hardwares have the chance to get third party support in the long terms also if they are performing way worst than the competition.
We saw that they use to propose expansive top-tech hardwares that aim at an "adult" demographic target age, very interested in tech spec probably more than software experiences, interested in small niche games.
Than, later in the life cycle, after few big titles, a price drop and so on, they are able to enlarge the user base, creating an active environments ready to receive also bigger softco efforts (big budgets titles and so on)
Sony is able to do this especially because they can afford to sell at a loss for years their hw, first of all, and because their first party presence is not so overwhelming over third party usual products
On the contrary, Nintendo hardwares are more front loaded: usually cheaper (I'm not saying that they are bad hw, please), with big titles (usually first party) from the beginning, and usually very "casual" (I mean: they are cool for the masses) especially at the beginning (than they need a lot of important third party stuff to keep the momentum, as the DS, otherwise if the madness about their marketing focus fades, they decline like the Wii); so for third parties could be better to be on the boat from the beginning especially if they and Nintendo are able to talk and plan the release with the right timings and so on
An important aspect that we should underline obviously is the difference between home and portable market, in order to understand if Vita could gain the momentum later on as PS3 did over the Wii: I think that success of the DS and of the actual 3DS and the absence of another console (like the 360 for the PS3) for western success that justified the multiplatform development could create more problems to Vita compared to PS3 in fighting against Nintendo for third party support, but the health portable market could, on the other hand, help it out, so I think that it's too early to understand if Vita will be a PS3/PSP-like* or a GC-like
*obviously PSP was way stronger than PS3 in terms of HW in Japan, and probably also in terms of third party support (not so sure about this, and it's the reason why I've put them side by side in my previous sentence)
It will be crucial especially for Vita and Wii U, because up to now they seems weak (in two different ways, because Nintendo IP could be strong).
About Vita, I think that Sony hardwares have the chance to get third party support in the long terms also if they are performing way worst than the competition.
We saw that they use to propose expansive top-tech hardwares that aim at an "adult" demographic target age, very interested in tech spec probably more than software experiences, interested in small niche games.
Than, later in the life cycle, after few big titles, a price drop and so on, they are able to enlarge the user base, creating an active environments ready to receive also bigger softco efforts (big budgets titles and so on)
Sony is able to do this especially because they can afford to sell at a loss for years their hw, first of all, and because their first party presence is not so overwhelming over third party usual products
On the contrary, Nintendo hardwares are more front loaded: usually cheaper (I'm not saying that they are bad hw, please), with big titles (usually first party) from the beginning, and usually very "casual" (I mean: they are cool for the masses) especially at the beginning (than they need a lot of important third party stuff to keep the momentum, as the DS, otherwise if the madness about their marketing focus fades, they decline like the Wii); so for third parties could be better to be on the boat from the beginning especially if they and Nintendo are able to talk and plan the release with the right timings and so on
An important aspect that we should underline obviously is the difference between home and portable market, in order to understand if Vita could gain the momentum later on as PS3 did over the Wii: I think that success of the DS and of the actual 3DS and the absence of another console (like the 360 for the PS3) for western success that justified the multiplatform development could create more problems to Vita compared to PS3 in fighting against Nintendo for third party support, but the health portable market could, on the other hand, help it out, so I think that it's too early to understand if Vita will be a PS3/PSP-like* or a GC-like
*obviously PSP was way stronger than PS3 in terms of HW in Japan, and probably also in terms of third party support (not so sure about this, and it's the reason why I've put them side by side in my previous sentence)
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
You should see the make-up sex.
electroplankton
Banned
Just one thing: Vita third parties support is nowhere near PSP and PS3 support during their first months, or announcement they got before the launch. I mean, people knew PS3 would have had FFXIII, RE5, DMC4, MGS4 even before it was released; as for PSP, there were games like Crisis Core, Monster Hunter and GTA in the pipeline.
Vita has nothing really close to that. It doesn't even have the title that helped the predecessor to succeed.
Yes, I agree with you. PS3 and PSP console arrived on the market with a lot of faith from third parties thanks (I think) especially to PS2 success (and GC fail).
Especially PS3 I think, and that's part of my previous tips about: Vita is in a different situation than PS3 (also if I tryed to underlined also the similarities)
That's one of the reasons why I think that it's too early to say that Vita will gain the momentum later in its lifecycle as PSP and PS3 did (in Japan, with different results and so on). I also explained why I think that it's also way too early to think that it will follow GC destiny.
Nope, but almost.
Here we have the Opening:
Max Anarchy 360 = 4.170
Madworld Wii = ???
Vanquish 360 = 11.204
Max Anarchy PS3 = 21.199
Vanquish PS3 = 48.318
Bayonetta 360 = 64,325
Bayonetta PS3 = 135,242
Here we have the actual LTD:
Max Anarchy 360 = 4.170
Madworld Wii = 15,670
Vanquish 360 = 18,489
Max Anarchy PS3 = 21.199
Vanquish PS3 = 95,925
Bayonetta 360 = 111,829
Bayonetta PS3 = 206,142
When can we say it? I know its early, etc., but things are not getting better- I would argue that as the 3DS continues to build its userbase and software advantage, things are only going to get worse.
I've yet to see one compelling, somewhat feasible reason that Vita will ever recover besides "wait for unnamed mega blockbuster X"
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Back from the dead.
I see Famitsu combined their software and hardware pages. Is the pie of total software really gone now?
EDIT: If anyone has the Famitsu page(s) from the previous two weeks saved I'd appreciate them. I have things in place so they're supposed to be saved automatically, but format changes stop it from working properly.
I see Famitsu combined their software and hardware pages. Is the pie of total software really gone now?
EDIT: If anyone has the Famitsu page(s) from the previous two weeks saved I'd appreciate them. I have things in place so they're supposed to be saved automatically, but format changes stop it from working properly.
Well at least I think that we should wait until:
third parties let PSP die = where they'll put their "ex-psp" efforts? All on 3DS? Part on 3DS and PS3? Will Vita get some "PSP-love"?
Sony cut the price = this could open the console to another demographic (of course, they'll need also the right software, but they could try to money hat some sort of third party esclusive as Nintendo did, to launch the more accessible console with an important title...)
Sony rebrand the console= with PS3 slim they not only cut the price (if I remember correctly they did another cut before the slim, am I right?) they also re-brand the console (with new price but also shape, colors, software and advertising), and we know that new models for handheld could be effective (at least in Japan)
Third parties "PSP" big titles status: a lot of crucial games that was succesfful on PSP have yet to be announced for their next iterations; is MHPortable dead and will they go ahead just with the "Numbered" part of the series? Will we ever have a real KH 3? Will God Eater be a PSP esclusive and will GE2 be the last title in the series? Will Phantasy Star be only MMORPG or will it have also "local multliplayer" iterations? Is Dissidia dead, or will it be on 3DS or...?
I think that we'll have to wait at least one year starting form now, to fully understand how the third party support will be on Vita for real, in my opinion, because I think that the vast majority of those questions will have a firm reply/answer
Father_Brain
Banned
The other recurrent Vita recovery theory I've seen, including from some people here who should be too smart to believe it, is that third parties will suddenly decide to give the system some dramatically improved level of support once the installed base crawls to some arbitrary number - say, five or six million worldwide - that's still a fraction of what exists on other platforms. Never mind that this has never happened before...
If there aren't major Japanese third-party titles (bigger than Project Diva) announced for Vita by/at TGS, we can probably infer that such titles weren't greenlit before the system launched. And if they weren't greenlit before launch, it's not likely that any were greenlit this year, Vita sales being as they are. TGS really is Sony's final chance to prove that a turnaround is possible, barring a sales miracle with AC and COD in the West this holiday.
Frankly, out of all those factors you listed, the only one that possibly addresses the big major Vita problem- a lack of compelling, system driving software- is the big PSP titles. Of course, by far the biggest piece of software is already on the 3DS.
I'm not seeing it. Just hoping that 3rd parties ignore the 3DS userbase and develop for the Vita strikes me as very wishful thinking and ignoring the reality of the market today.
Sort of yes, sort of no. In that I'm saying TGS largely from the standpoint of 'they need to do something at some point, and if they don't hit TGS *hard*, they're screwed'.
The fact is, though, 'they're screwed' is an *extremely* viable possibility; indeed, I would say that my gut feeling is that it's more likely than them having lots of exciting stuff at TGS. At the moment, though, I still have to entertain both possibilities.
This would not surprise me.
electroplankton
Banned
Well, Vita is getting some PSP-love level third party support. The problem is that they're all low-tier titles (Nippon Ichi, Gust), with few exceptions, that are only low/mid-tier titles (e.g. Persona, Gundam, Hatsune Miku).
Another problem is that some software house are shifting toward 3DS, such as Atlus (yeah, it was nice on DS as well, but not during the first 3 years or so), Falcom has confirmed Kiseki will arrive, Capcom which on DS was not a relevant presence. Furthermore, some PSP titles are selling nicely on 3DS: Miku, LBX, MH. That's not good for Vita.
Imo, Soul Sacrifice won't be a system seller. We have to know something more, but it doesn't look like a title which might drive hardware sales more than two weeks.
This.
Also because if Vita keeps selling like shit, the million mark could be the only milestone it reaches.
I would clarify one thing: I never wrote that Vita will rise to heaven!
I'm just saying that there are still gaps to be filled in the next year and I'm not so 100% sure that they'll be all dedicated to the 3ds ignoring Vita.
One question: why we can imagine that Nintendo is just hiding the non-existent third party support until next fall, while Vita should already have shown its Xmas lineup?
I agree. In fact I said that 3DS is not the Wii as Vita is not PS3 in terms of third party support and demographic target, and those are the main concerns for Vita
Are you talking about the 3DS or the Wii U?
If you are talking about Wii U, we have multiple confirmations that Japanese 3rd party announcements are still coming.
If you are talking about the 3DS, well its market position and prior publisher support make it very likely we will see more high profile announcements this Fall.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
If we take 300k as a barometer for large, here are the franchises that were large on PSP last generation, excluding Sony first-party stuff:
1. Monster Hunter -> 3G on 3DS, 4 on 3DS
2. Dissidia / Crisis Core / Type-0 -> No followup yet (Theatrhythm is also a FF spinoff, on 3DS)
3. Metal Gear Solid -> No followup yet (Ports on Vita and 3DS)
4. Kingdom Hearts -> KH DDD on 3DS.
5. Phantasy Star Portable -> No followup yet
6. God Eater -> No followup yet
7. Mobile Suit Gundam / Super Robot Wars -> Gundam games on every platform, someone more knowledgeable would have to say which are actually comparable
8. AKB -> AKB & Me on 3DS
9. Musou -> Musou games are on every platform, someone more knowledgeable would have to say which are comparable
10. Hatsune Miku -> There is a 3DS installment, has a Vita installment also been announced?
11. Power Pro Baseball -> ???
12. Little Battlers -> Port/expansion/sequel on 3DS and PSP, right?
13. Tales -> No followup yet, series seems at home on PS3. Ports on both 3DS (Abyss) and Vita (Innocence).
Those are the only franchises that cracked 300k. I should stress that 300k is an arbitrary number, a list for 200k would be slightly different, or 150k, or 350k, or 250k. I was just trying to evaluate the idea that PSP software support may have shifted to 3DS versus it still being "unclaimed" and open for the Vita's taking.
1. Monster Hunter -> 3G on 3DS, 4 on 3DS
2. Dissidia / Crisis Core / Type-0 -> No followup yet (Theatrhythm is also a FF spinoff, on 3DS)
3. Metal Gear Solid -> No followup yet (Ports on Vita and 3DS)
4. Kingdom Hearts -> KH DDD on 3DS.
5. Phantasy Star Portable -> No followup yet
6. God Eater -> No followup yet
7. Mobile Suit Gundam / Super Robot Wars -> Gundam games on every platform, someone more knowledgeable would have to say which are actually comparable
8. AKB -> AKB & Me on 3DS
9. Musou -> Musou games are on every platform, someone more knowledgeable would have to say which are comparable
10. Hatsune Miku -> There is a 3DS installment, has a Vita installment also been announced?
11. Power Pro Baseball -> ???
12. Little Battlers -> Port/expansion/sequel on 3DS and PSP, right?
13. Tales -> No followup yet, series seems at home on PS3. Ports on both 3DS (Abyss) and Vita (Innocence).
Those are the only franchises that cracked 300k. I should stress that 300k is an arbitrary number, a list for 200k would be slightly different, or 150k, or 350k, or 250k. I was just trying to evaluate the idea that PSP software support may have shifted to 3DS versus it still being "unclaimed" and open for the Vita's taking.
Project Mirai (Chibi Miku) =/ Project Diva (Regular Miku)
And yes, there is a Project Diva game coming out this August, which should perform better than Mirai.
Added some things.
electroplankton
Banned
Because 3DS is showing to be a viable system for third parties, with a lot of titles in the pipeline (Bravely Default, Project X Zone, Monster Hunter 4, E.X. Troopers, Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright, Inazuma Eleven Go 2, Samurai Warriors Chronicles 2nd...)?
Also: we have an important precedent, last September Nintendo conference, where a lot of new third parties games were announced. This never happened recently for a Sony system.
Good post, thank you!
I agree with the 300k mark arbitrary but good milestone for the discussion.
About Miku yes, there is a Vita iteration incoming (next August); about Little Battlers up to now the sequel is listed just for PSP and Vita, no 3DS version for the moment; about Pro Baseball if I remember correctly they announced it for PSP and Vita, no 3DS version; about God eater we know that the 2nd episode is coming: it was listed for PSP but then desappeaerd. It would be interesting to see when they'll finally put it.
InsaneZero
Member
Regarding the Gundam/SRW aspect, the only game released on either the 3DS/Vita that could be considered "major" would be Gundam SEED Battle Destiny on the Vita. The last major SRW release (SRWZ2.2) was released on the PSP earlier this year, so I don't see that franchise having a major release on either of the new handheld platforms any time soon (there might be a new one-off SRW handheld release, but the "mainline" entries should still be in the early end of development).
Vita's entire Japanese launch lineup was announced at TGS. I don't believe we knew of a single game there prior to that event.
test_account
XP-39C²
I would say that it happened to the PSP:
2004 = 13 games
2005 = 54 games
2006 = 74 games
2007 = 48 games
2008 = 69 games
2009 = 189 games
2010 = 222 games
2011 = 135 games
Before "because of Monster Hunter" is brought up, only a fraction of those games are Monster Hunter clones, so it is not like everyone was throwing themself on that wave.
fabricated backlash
Member
I would definetly buy a copy if it comes to Europe. I wonder if a western version would be able to sell more than 500k (between US and Europe) though.
Come on. The rise in 3rd party efforts absolutely coincided with the rise of Monster Hunter on PSP. That is just undeniable.
electroplankton
Banned
I don't remember actually, but that would represent a very peculiar situation.
Capcom's Sengoku Basara has a large female fanbase. I'm not sure of Koei's stuff though.
Ah yes, that's the one.
nvm garaph to the rescue
I believe there's 2 PSP games, one was released last year IIRC. There is an HD Collection for PS3 in the works, and yes, Sengoku Basara 3 was the latest main game.
Sorry, I intended about yesterday's discussion about: Vita VS Wii U misterious third party support.
electroplankton
Banned
It is widely accepted that Monster Hunter Portable drove the software explosion on PSP; but not because of the success of the game itself, but because hardware sales increased; actually, PSP started to increase in late 2007, when Crisis Core, Portable Ops+ and the new version was released.
By the way, in such list it is worth mentioning that among those games, there were already quite big names, something that Vita doesn't have.
I realize this is completely pointless because you keep ignoring these posts, but Iwata confirmed himself that Japanese 3rd party games will be announced later
I don't know why you are being so difficult on this. If you truly believe that the Japanese 3rd party launch window lineup is going to consist of Ninja Gaiden, Tekken, and Tanks!, I don't know what you are thinking.
Me too! I don't know about possible sales, but count a +1 for my copy!
I think you're right about Basara.
MH helped a lot in increasing the install base and in putting the console in a very positive and active shine, also if no all those games were MH clones obviously.
But if you look at the previous list of +300 mark games you'll find out a very similar demographic for the vast majority of them.
What I'm trying to say is that MH helped a lot PSP momentum, really.
I don't ignore those posts at all.
Please read my yesterday's posts: every time someone tell me that, I ask: Iwata officially stated during the Investor meeting (that should be the most reliable ones) that the lack of western third party support should have ended at E3. But at the last E3 there was no major announcement at all, am I wrong?
Plus: Sony officially declared that there is a bunch of Vita's softwares incoming, that they decided to avoid presenting them at E3 of purpose to focus on PS3, that we will see a lot of titles tailored for the portable market and so on just few days ago.
If we trust to Iwata's speech, should we trust also Sony speech about Vita, right?
Or, as I prefer to do, I judge the situation that up to now is official (I could also discuss about rumors, of course, but up to now there is no rumor about neither big titles for Vita or Wii U)
Why should we think that it's impossible that Xmas third party lineup for Wii U will be so weak, and think that it's almost sure that Vita's one will be a failure?
I'm just saying that in my opinion if we must express an opinion now about the lineups, we should judge for what we know.
I repeated several times that if they'll announce games for the Wii U I'll change my actual feeling about that console, I have no problem in this!
grimshawish
Banned
The big and main problem Vita has is Sony saw Monster Hunter take over the PSP and left it to that and third parties.
Capcom were never going to stay with them if a competitive system was introduced. 3DS can run Monster Hunter; it also has Nintendos userbase to now sell to.
Nintendo/Capcom working together is a really strong team.
Capcom/Sony? The only thing Capcom got out of that was a more limited userbase, the userbase that was there was all down to their hard work and brands.
This problems continues for PSP's other successes, some of those were thanks to the MH shot in the PSP arm, and others just down to their own luck/product. In the end these games can now be made on the 3DS - with both the Capcom and Nintendo userbases.
I don't think Vita is dead. But it may need a lie down for a while; until some kind of strategy can be put behind the system.
At the moment Sony have been shunned for a quite reasonable reason - third parties are asking; 'what exactly do they bring to the table'.
Capcom were never going to stay with them if a competitive system was introduced. 3DS can run Monster Hunter; it also has Nintendos userbase to now sell to.
Nintendo/Capcom working together is a really strong team.
Capcom/Sony? The only thing Capcom got out of that was a more limited userbase, the userbase that was there was all down to their hard work and brands.
This problems continues for PSP's other successes, some of those were thanks to the MH shot in the PSP arm, and others just down to their own luck/product. In the end these games can now be made on the 3DS - with both the Capcom and Nintendo userbases.
I don't think Vita is dead. But it may need a lie down for a while; until some kind of strategy can be put behind the system.
At the moment Sony have been shunned for a quite reasonable reason - third parties are asking; 'what exactly do they bring to the table'.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
In regards to people saying "Monster Hunter Clones" there only really was 2 of them on the PSP.
The terrible Lord of Arcana by Square Enix
and
God Eater by Bandai-Namco.
Now if you want a real "clone" that would be Hunter Blade by some Chinese company. Who just went and ripped a bunch of shit from the PSP version through reverse engineering.
People who try to say Phantasy Star also falls under that category forget to realize that series has been around longer than Monster Hunter. Id have to say Lord of Arcana might be closer to Phantasy Star than Monster Hunter really. Same goes for the latest Lord of Apocalypse and Ragnarok on the VITA.
The terrible Lord of Arcana by Square Enix
and
God Eater by Bandai-Namco.
Now if you want a real "clone" that would be Hunter Blade by some Chinese company. Who just went and ripped a bunch of shit from the PSP version through reverse engineering.
People who try to say Phantasy Star also falls under that category forget to realize that series has been around longer than Monster Hunter. Id have to say Lord of Arcana might be closer to Phantasy Star than Monster Hunter really. Same goes for the latest Lord of Apocalypse and Ragnarok on the VITA.
The difference is we have a precedent with the Vita of A) selling like crap and B) not receiving very good 3rd party support.
Wii U is a brand new platform, from a Japanese company, where the single new Japanese 3rd party game announced in a year has been Tanks! Do you find it at all logical that Nintendo would have significantly worse 3rd party support for launch from Japan as compared to the West? Doesn't it make much more sense that Iwata is..I dunno..telling the truth when he says Japanese 3rd party efforts will be unveiled later?
I think I'm done with this.
Father_Brain
Banned
I actually should have added "with the exception of PSP in Japan post-MH."
But MH was basically a miracle, and as mentioned above, that boom was also aided by titles like Crisis Core that should have been announced by this point in Vita's lifespan, particularly considering Sony's historic willingness to announce games that are well over a year from release.
electroplankton
Banned
I think that for "Monster Hunter clones" people also refer to such titles with a heavy local co-op mode, exactly as Phantasy Star Portable. The fact that this game was able to sell over 600k is a clear indicator that tried to attract Monster Hunter fanbase, and succeeded i it, given that the series never topped such numbers.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
gibberish
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Go go Etrian Odyssey 4!!