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[Cat Party]

I'm looking for details on these killings that occurred and finding none. Never heard that part of the story before, so I'm very curious.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Yeah... fuck that guy. "I didn't know the war ended" does not mean shit. By that logic, terrorists or anybody considering themselves "at war" are justified to any action they desire, and deserving of the same respect or admiration that people are handing out here. A rope, an unmarked grave and immediate dismissal of his memory should have been his fate.

Except that he was drafted into the military and was in what was considered a war. He was given orders to remain behind and continue covert actions and guerrilla warfare. Then he was cut off from all communication. To do anything else would have been disobeying orders, which would have meant death.

Not to excuse any killing, but I think people are just completely failing put themselves in his position. Totally different mindset from a totally different time and totally different circumstances. To condemn this guy for what he did would be to condemn any soldier for not disobeying orders that they didn't like or didn't agree with and that resulted in civilian deaths.

 

[SillyEskimo]

Yes, much better to go off on some tangent about how this guy is probably some baby killer who enjoys human experimentation.

Did you not read his resume? A "just following orders guy" would have not gone to the lengths this guy did. He was as deep into the Kool Aid drinking Imperialist mind set as any Japanese soldier in the history of WW2. He would've been right at home in the situations I mentioned in my post. This man was the definitive type of Japanese soldier that committed atrocities in WW2. His story is a testiment to this fact.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Did you not read his resume? A "just following orders guy" would have not gone to the lengths this guy did. He was as deep into the Kool Aid drinking Imperialist mind set as any Japanese soldier in the history of WW2. He would've been right at home in the situations I mentioned in my post. This man was the definitive type of Japanese soldier that committed atrocities in WW2. His story is a testiment to this fact.

Man... you're off your rocker. Way to go making sweeping assumptions and judgment calls.

 

[Soyongdori]

I love how people giving an excuse for that batshit insane murdering former imperial soldier by saying "he didnt know the war was over".

So he gets a free pass from him killing bunch of random civilians not even armed during that 30 years.

 

[depths20XX]

Did you not read his resume? A "just following orders guy" would have not gone to the lengths this guy did. He was as deep into the Kool Aid drinking Imperialist mind set as any Japanese soldier in the history of WW2. He would've been right at home in the situations I mentioned in my post. This man was the definitive type of Japanese soldier that committed atrocities in WW2. His story is a testiment to this fact.

I'm not so much interested in the "what ifs" and more interested in the mindset that would cause someone to remain in that place for 30 years. Of course there were numerous atrocities committed during that war from all sides. I'm not calling this guy honorable or anything and really can't find much info on these 30 he killed and how long after the war he killed them.

 

[Jacob]

I love how people giving an excuse for that batshit insane murdering former imperial soldier by saying "he didnt know the war was over".

So he gets a free pass from him killing bunch of random civilians not even armed during that 30 years.

What's the source for him killing unarmed civilians? Most of the stories I've read about Onoda do not elaborate on the killings, but those that do make reference to police action and firefights (such as the one that killed Onoda's last surviving companion in 1972).

And this guy was a teenager during the height of Japanese fascism -- of course he believed some crazy things.

 

[Romars202129]

And saved the lives of millions.

Try looking at pics of all those children born mutilated from radiation and repeating that.

Personally, I'm not some self hating American, my grandfather was decorated officer in WW2, and I'm proud of him. But those bombings are right up their with slavery for me as the great shames of America.
They were dropped on civilians for god's sakes. Disgusting.
I hope Truman's burning right alongside Hitler.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

A couple more posts and we'll have people saying he sneaked into villages at night and killed 30 newborn babies and roasted them for food or some shit.

Here's a link to the Wikipedia about him for anyone curious:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroo_Onoda

Here's a bit about why his group kept hiding:

The first time they saw a leaflet announcing that Japan had surrendered was in October 1945; another cell had killed a cow and found a leaflet left behind by islanders which read: "The war ended on August 15. Come down from the mountains!"[6] However, they mistrusted the leaflet, because another cell had been fired upon a few days previously. They concluded that the leaflet was Allied propaganda, and also believed that they would not have been fired on if the war had indeed been over. Toward the end of 1945, leaflets were dropped by air with a surrender order printed on them from General Tomoyuki Yamashita of the Fourteenth Area Army. They had been in hiding for over a year, and this leaflet was the only evidence they had the war was over. Onoda's group looked very closely at the leaflet to determine whether it was genuine, and decided it was not.

 

[SillyEskimo]

I'm not so much interested in the "what ifs" and more interested in the mindset that would cause someone to remain in that place for 30 years.

That's what I've been saying. The type of person that would hide in the jungle, alone, and kill people for 30 years is the very worst, heartless, unempathitic soldier imaginable. The people with his exact midset are the same types of Japanese that committed attrocities during WW2.

 

[SolidusDave]

What's with this weird tone in this thread? Everyone having a hard-on for nationalism/patriotism?!

Interesting contrast:

Kill 30 people during war, you're a normal person.

Kill 30 people after, you're a crazy person.

Something to be learned here.

eh... no? He targeted and killed 30 CIVILIANS. That's not considered to be ok - be it during war or not.
EDIT: In this case I don't know if they were all civilians (army scout troops, police?).


Even if he really thought the war was still going on and not just had fun killing people, he's a shitty soldier for having such bad judgement that he can't even recognize a threat/civilians. Plus mentally retarded/broken by war, that he just goes on with it for 30 years.
I don't think this can even be considered an example for blind loyalty anymore, just insanity.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

What's with this weird tone in this thread? Everyone having a hard-on for nationalism/patriotism?!





eh... no? He targeted and killed 30 CIVILIANS. That's not considered to be ok - be it during war or not.


Even if he really thought the war was still going on and not just had fun killing people, he's a shitty soldier for having such bad judgement that he can't even recognize a threat/civilians. Plus mentally retarded/broken by war, that he just goes on with it for 30 years.
I don't think this can even be considered an example for blind loyalty anymore, just insanity.

To speak so surely, I suppose you know the circumstances behind all of those killings. Do tell.

 

[SillyEskimo]

Try looking at pics of all those children born mutilated from radiation and repeating that.

Better than millions dieing by further war.

I'm not happy or proud of dropping the bombs, but I understand why it had to happen. The other options were much, much worse for everyone involved, especially the Japanese whose culture may have become virtually extinct.

 

[Jacob]

That's what I've been saying. The type of person that would hide in the jungle, alone, and kill people for 30 years is the very worst, heartless, unempathitic soldier imaginable. The people with his exact midset are the same types of Japanese that committed attrocities during WW2.

He spent most of that time with other people.

eh... no? He targeted and killed 30 CIVILIANS. That's not considered to be ok - be it during war or not.


Even if he really thought the war was still going on and not just had fun killing people, he's a shitty soldier for having such bad judgement that he can't even recognize a threat/civilians. Plus mentally retarded/broken by war, that he just goes on with it for 30 years.
I don't think this can even be considered an example for blind loyalty anymore, just insanity.

Again ... evidence that this guy was some sort of walking My Lai?

 

[SolidusDave]

To speak so surely, I suppose you know the circumstances behind all of those killings. Do tell.

Well, for one, no one has a motive of attacking the crazy armed Japanese soldiers hiding in the jungle decades after the war ended... So who exactly would they be able to target in the jungle apart from the odd civilian, maybe a poacher at best... Still, can you picture any scenario in which they killed in self-defense?!

Though I guess some of the 30 people might have been also officials like police/army (who were called after people had been killed over the years) as the article mentions one of the soldiers was killed during a shootout with the Philippine troops in 1972.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Well, for one, no one has a motive of attacking the crazy armed Japanese soldiers hiding in the jungle decades after the war ended... So who exactly would they be able to target in the jungle apart from the odd civilian, maybe a poacher at best...

Though I guess some of the 30 people might have been also officials like police/army (who were called after people had been killed over the years) as the article mentions one of the soldiers was killed during a shootout with the Philippine troops in 1972.

Cool. So your post of outrage was based off quickly reading a single article and making a whole bunch of assumptions. I figured as much.

 

[Romars202129]

Better than millions dieing by further war.

I'm not happy or proud of dropping the bombs, but I understand why it had to happen. The other options were much, much worse for everyone involved, especially the Japanese whose culture may have become virtually extinct.

Did it have to happen? My personal oppinion is that is bullshit rhetoric. Cause, what is the government's going to say after they did some fucked up bullshit "Whoops, slight overkill on that one lol", but you can take it to heart if you want. Know it'd make me feel better if I could believe it.

Spoiler

It is serious bullshit though.

 

[kick51]

Yeah. Interesting though how loyal he was.

"interesting" isn't the right word


christ, japan was so beyond fucked up around WW2. Not as efficient as systematic as the nazis, but just crazy as fuck. My modern Korean history class was basically "and then, the japanese did this crazy ass thing..."

 

[MasterOfPastures]

Except that he was drafted into the military and was in what was considered a war. He was given orders to remain behind and continue covert actions and guerrilla warfare. Then he was cut off from all communication. To do anything else would have been disobeying orders, which would have meant death.

Not to excuse any killing, but I think people are just completely failing put themselves in his position. Totally different mindset from a totally different time and totally different circumstances. To condemn this guy for what he did would be to condemn any soldier for not disobeying orders that they didn't like or didn't agree with and that resulted in civilian deaths.

Are you claiming that the Nuremberg Trials were illegal then?

 

[SolidusDave]

Cool. So your post of outrage was based off quickly reading a single article and making a whole bunch of assumptions. I figured as much.

I'm only "outraged" that people would think he's an awesome guy even though he went guerilla on 30 people during all those years. On people that I have no reason to believe were attacking them first, at least not all?

Or are you suggesting that the article lies? Has the The Guardian such a low reputation?
Excuse me for not being there in person for each kill though, I did not want to question your authority on this matter...

 

[Deleted member 17706]

"interesting" isn't the right word


christ, japan was so beyond fucked up around WW2. Not as efficient as systematic as the nazis, but just crazy as fuck. My modern Korean history class was basically "and then, the japanese did this crazy ass thing..."

The world was a very, very different place back then. It's easy to apply modern societal standards and morals that exist today. Doing so will make a whole lot of places look "beyond fucked up." I think we can all be glad that we didn't have to live through that era.

I'm only "outraged" that people would think it's awesome that he went guerilla on 30 people during all those years. On people that I have no reason to believe were attacking them first, at least not all?

Or are you suggesting that the article lies? Has the The Guardian such a low reputation?

Who is saying that?

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

Not really, nationalism is helluva drug. WW2 was crazy times and people did horrible stuff out of loyalty for the country.

I would say this is still going on...

 

[kick51]

Did it have to happen? My personal oppinion is that is bullshit rhetoric. Cause, what is the government's going to say after they did some fucked up bullshit "Whoops, slight overkill on that one lol", but you can take it to heart if you want. Know it'd make me feel better if I could believe it.

Spoiler

It is serious bullshit though.

It was a cost/benefit analysis of casualties that lead to it and it probably wasn't like "yo i got something to do, can we just drop the damn bomb and call it a night?"

 

[SolidusDave]

Who is saying that?

I rephrased.


edit: if you have more information about the killings, I would like to know though. Because I can't figure out why the Philippine government would give him a full pardon (and with full honors or what's this ceremony in his uniform about?) apart from crazy pressure by Japan of course.

 

[Deleted member 309291]

You can be both loyal and an insane idiot at the same time.

RIP anyway.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Are you claiming that the Nuremberg Trials were illegal then?

Illegal? Well the trials certainly have their criticisms as being "victor's justice" and applying laws that didn't exist at the time of the crime retroactively to convict the accused. I don't know enough about legal issues to really make a judgment call there, though. Either war, the people convicted did some vile shit, so I'm not going to shed any tears for what happened to them.

That's besides the point, though. I don't think any common soldiers (the grunts carrying out the terrible orders) were tried and convicted in those trials. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

I rephrased.


edit: if you have more information about the killings, I would like to know though. Because I can't figure out why the Philippine Government would give him a full pardon (and with full honors or what's this ceremony in his uniform about?) apart from crazy pressure by Japan.

I don't think many people believe he is "awesome," either.

The pardon may have come as a result from Japanese pressure, indeed:

Japan and the Philippines signed a Treaty of Amity, Commerce and Navigation in 1960, but the treaty did not go into effect until 1973, when then-President Ferdinand Marcos abolished the Philippine legislature under martial law and ratified the treaty ten days prior to the visit of Japanese Prime Minister Kakuei Tanaka. By 1975, Japan had displaced the United States as the main source of investment in the country.

The president of the Philippines at the time seemed like a real great guy (sarcasm):

In 1965, Macapagal lost to Ferdinand Marcos, who was elected president. Nearing the end of his second term and constitutionally barred from seeking a third, he declared martial law on September 21, 1972. By using political divisions, the tension of the Cold War, and the specter of communist rebellion and Islamic insurgency as justifications, he governed by decree. Marcos nationalized the economy while he took full control of the media. He governed as a strongman, marking his rule through the torture, disappearance, and execution of his political enemies while his wife, Imelda Marcos, lived a lavish lifestyle with trips to Paris and New York City, acquiring property and artwork, such as those of Michaelangelo and Claude Monet.

 

[kick51]

The world was a very, very different place back then. It's easy to apply modern societal standards and morals that exist today. Doing so will make a whole lot of places look "beyond fucked up." I think we can all be glad that we didn't have to live through that era.

lol what? I'm not measuring Japan's actions during WW2 by any "modern" societal standards and morals. We figured way before then that that massive murder, raping, pillaging, and suicide crashing in the name of your country are not right. Japan didn't "look" beyond fucked up during WW2, they were 100%, through and through, and it's actually difficult to overstate because every time you open a book, you see a new, incredibly screwed up story. Yes, same with lots of civilizations and countries, but it's a thread about Japan in WW2. You really want me to qualify their actions by saying "oh but lots of countries have been fucked up before, it's nothing new..."? As much as I would enjoy debating that from either side, this isn't the site to discuss that kind of thing in depth.

 

[Valkerionseven]

Most likely the killings by the soldier were seen as more random violence. For w/e reason it has not come up, but there are a good number of random armed groups in the jungles out there, 30 killings over 30 years by guerrilla tactics isn't something to take an overt notice too depending where exactly this was at. The fact they are attributed to this/those men at all makes me think they were known about and left alone by officials.

Either way, crazy after years of isolation makes it hard to make a sure statement about the guy, those who do are just stating their opinion. There is a reason most countries have clauses for insanity to try and understand how stuff like this can actually happen.

On the topic of the bombs, well... yeah 200k people, pretty much all civilians, then the decades of effects on the population and land, fucked up. At the same time, you are kinda nuts and not seeing the big picture if you think 5+ more years of war and a few million more lives on both sides of the main warfront was a more viable option for the world, not even mentioning all the troops stationed across east asia. Not saying it was right, but sometimes a vast heartless show of force is what it takes. It's harder for people to remember why Japan attacked USA and what they were doing exactly during the whole pre-pearl harbor days when they are from countries not in Europe/North America.

 

[Romars202129]

It was a cost/benefit analysis of casualties that lead to it and it probably wasn't like "yo i got something to do, can we just drop the damn bomb and call it a night?"

Well, personally I think it was ignorance. Like Truman had no realistic idea of how poweful and dangerous those bombs actually were, which is certainly believable enough. Though that still leaves the question of why he picked civilian targets.

 

[ymmv]

Now listening to: Camel - Nude

(How many people will immediately get the reference?)

 

[Deleted member 17706]

lol what? I'm not measuring Japan's actions during WW2 by any "modern" societal standards and morals. We figured way before then that that massive murder, raping, pillaging, and suicide crashing in the name of your country are not right. Japan didn't "look" beyond fucked up during WW2, they were 100%, through and through, and it's actually difficult to overstate because every time you open a book, you see a new, incredibly screwed up story. Yes, same with lots of civilizations and countries, but it's a thread about Japan in WW2. You really want me to qualify their actions by saying "oh but lots of countries have been fucked up before, it's nothing new..."? As much as I would enjoy debating that from either side, this isn't the site to discuss that kind of thing in depth.

The only reason I bring up other countries is because the definition of "beyond fucked up" has to be relative to something.

 

[StayDead]

That's what I've been saying. The type of person that would hide in the jungle, alone, and kill people for 30 years is the very worst, heartless, unempathitic soldier imaginable. The people with his exact midset are the same types of Japanese that committed attrocities during WW2.

Please don't turn this into an anti-japan thing. Everyone commited Attrocities in WW2. Every life lost through the war was an atrocity and the constant fire bombings and use of Napalm weapons against humans by the US were far more horrific as the killing of 30 people who got into active combat with people who, due to lack of combat still thought the war was still happening.

Look at what the Allies did to German women in Berlin. Just because you don't hear about it as often since our side "won" the war doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

[kick51]

Well, personally I think it was ignorance. Like Truman had no realistic idea of how poweful and dangerous those bombs actually were, which is certainly believable enough. Though that still leaves the question of why he picked civilian targets.

oh yeah, there were gaps and problems with their logic and information for sure, but I don't come close to pretending to know what that situation felt like to be in, so I can't really judge. It did get results at a time when results needed to be gotten, perhaps more than any other time in history.

Now, the gap between the first and second bomb...that's where I start to get a little more skeptical. 2nd bomb was hasty

The only reason I bring up other countries is because the definition of "beyond fucked up" has to be relative to something.

well, it's beyond fucked up in the context of pretty much all of history and only starts to look a little better when measured up against neanderthals who don't know any better.

 

[Valkerionseven]

Like Truman had no realistic idea of how poweful and dangerous those bombs actually were, which is certainly believable enough. Though that still leaves the question of why he picked civilian targets.

Yeah if you look up the testing records for nukes before they were used and the tests done after across the globe the "unknown power" part was a big part of it. Each bomb made during testing was just progressively more powerful.

And yeah, the targets were always my main gripe with their use. Part of me realizes that vaporizing entire cities sends more of a message than cratering a major airfield... but yeah.

 

[MutFox]

Nationalistic evils justified by nationalist pride.

That goes for everything.
Killing in the name of and dropping atomic bombs on citizens.

Though people will justify any excuse for their country because they were born there.
Nationalistic pride, when it comes to killing, is the most disgusting concept on this planet.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

well, it's beyond fucked up in the context of pretty much all of history and only starts to look a little better when measured up against neanderthals who don't know any better.

I guess I'll just disagree. There was a whole lot of beyond fucked up shit being carried out across Europe and Asia and elsewhere during that era.

 

[Kimawolf]

RIP crazy japanese soldier guy. Im sure your emperor has saved you a seat at his table.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Nationalistic evils justified by nationalist pride.

That goes for everything.
Killing in the name of and dropping atomic bombs on citizens.

Though people will justify any excuse for their country because they were born there.
Nationalistic pride, when it comes to killing, is the most disgusting concept on this planet.

I think we can all agree on this, at least. The more connected the world becomes, the stronger this sentiment will be shared, I hope.

 

[jerry1594]

Except that he was drafted into the military and was in what was considered a war. He was given orders to remain behind and continue covert actions and guerrilla warfare. Then he was cut off from all communication. To do anything else would have been disobeying orders, which would have meant death.

Not to excuse any killing, but I think people are just completely failing put themselves in his position. Totally different mindset from a totally different time and totally different circumstances. To condemn this guy for what he did would be to condemn any soldier for not disobeying orders that they didn't like or didn't agree with and that resulted in civilian deaths.

I dunno man. The guy being cut off from civilization for 30 years might be a cool human interest story, but the SS and Auschwitz personnel were also 'just following orders'. Many convicted war criminals were just following orders. That didn't remove their volition.

 

[SolidusDave]

I don't think many people believe he is "awesome," either.

The pardon may have come as a result from Japanese pressure, indeed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan–Philippines_relations

The president of the Philippines at the time seemed like a real great guy (sarcasm):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines

Not many, but there's definitely some positive feedback and/or trying to justify the killings.

And yeah, I don't know much at all about the country during these decades, the president seems like a guy that would have been easily swayed for some more investments...

 

[Atolm]

Are you claiming that the Nuremberg Trials were illegal then?

The legitimacy of the Nuremberg Trials has been questioned even since when they were held, and not only by Germans but by US jurists as well, not sure if you already knew that.

 

[Romars202129]

Yeah if you look up the testing records for nukes before they were used and the tests done after across the globe the "unknown power" part was a big part of it. Each bomb made during testing was just progressively more powerful.

And yeah, the targets were always my main gripe with their use. Part of me realizes that vaporizing entire cities sends more of a message than cratering a major airfield... but yeah.

I've read the original nukes used in Hiroshima and Nagasaki were actually very gimped in ability too. Imagine if those science guys had got the formula right back then, death toll would have skyrocketed.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I dunno man. The guy being cut off from civilization for 30 years might be a cool human interest story, but the SS and Auschwitz personnel were also 'just following orders'. Many convicted war criminals were just following orders. That didn't remove their volition.

I find it difficult to put myself in those people's shoes. What would I do in a similar situation? Growing up being fed propaganda that everything my nation does is correct, being recruited into the military and having it drilled into me that to disobey is to be a coward, a traitor, and that it will be met with summary execution. Would my personal morals be able to triumph over all that and allow me to disobey (and be summarily executed if I didn't manage to escape) all with the knowledge that someone else will simply come along and carry out the terrible deed that I was originally assigned? I don't know.

 

[Fattony12000]

I've read the original nukes used in Hiroshima and Nagasaki were actually very gimped in ability too. Imagine if those science guys had got the formula right back then, death toll would have skyrocketed.

"The first thermonuclear device ever exploded was the USA's Ivy Mike, which was detonated during a test at the Enewetak Atoll in the Pacific Ocean on the 1st of November, 1952. It exploded with a force of between 11 and 12 megatons, approximately 534.88 times more powerful than the Fat Man fission bomb."

"Fat Man = 20-23 KT
9th August 1945: Exploded 500 meters above the city of Nagasaki, Japan. Killing 73,884 and critically injuring a further 74,909, as recorded upon the memorial plaque in the Nagasaki Peace Park. Similar in design to the Gadget device, this bomb converted just one gram of it's total matter into the explosive energy that the city below bore witness to."

- Fattony12000, http://www.giantbomb.com/thermonuclear-weapon/3055-3974/

 

[CornBurrito]

I agree, he was either very stupid (or blind) to not notice the bodies of those who shot dead were not enemy soldiers.

I mean, all it takes is to make sure they are carrying any guns at all or that they are wearing a distinguishable piece of uniform (Hell he could have recognized their nationality and physical features) to realize you are killing innocent civilians of your own fucking country. Or maybe he was just a psychopath killer and used it as a reason to excuse his slaughter of innocent people.

I wonder how many innocent civilians have been killed by the US army.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

"The first thermonuclear device ever exploded was the USA's Ivy Mike, which was detonated during a test at the Enewetak Atoll in the Pacific Ocean on the 1st of November, 1952. It exploded with a force of between 11 and 12 megatons, approximately 534.88 times more powerful than the Fat Man fission bomb."
- Fattony12000, http://www.giantbomb.com/thermonuclear-weapon/3055-3974/

This guy signs his posts and links to Giant Bomb for information on nuclear weapons.

I like him.

 

[Fattony12000]

This guy signs his posts and links to Giant Bomb for information on nuclear weapons.

I like him.

It's even worse than that. That's me actually correctly attributing the above quoted text to myself. Me being the person who created and wrote that article on Giant Bomb regarding thermonuclear weapons in the first place.

Yeah, I wouldn't like me either.

 

[Valnen]

This guy signs his posts and links to Giant Bomb for information on nuclear weapons.

I like him.

I can't think of a more appropriate website for information on explosives than a website called "Giant Bomb".

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Remarkable

 

[SilentRacoon]

Illegal? Well the trials certainly have their criticisms as being "victor's justice" and trying people apply laws that didn't exist at the time of the crime retroactively to convict the accused. I don't know enough about legal issues to really make a judgment call there, though. Either war, the people convicted did some vile shit, so I'm not going to shed any tears for what happened to them.

That's besides the point, though. I don't think any common soldiers (the grunts carrying out the terrible orders) were tried and convicted in those trials. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.

He wasn't just a grunt soldier though, here from the article "Hiroo Onoda, an army intelligence officer" if he was in fact the one in charge of his unit leftovers, he should have been tried for war crimes. He choose not to believe the proof they had that the war was over and that poor judgment lead the whole group to remain uncommunicated, which in the end resulted in the tragic death of dozens of unarmed civilians.

Im sorry to get upset at people cheering him up as a hero, there is not enough evidence to make a certain case out of this, but the little we know make him sound like a nationalist nutcase that refused to accept the reality in which his beloved country had lost the war .