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Japanese Twitter Reacts to Ariana Grande's Tattoo
- Thread starter Harlock
- Start date
Wings 嫩翼翻せ
so it's not nice
I used to watch this guy's videos. Like me, he likes to completely wreck those 日本人 who don't know their Kanji.
Like I said in another thread, if she had said it was Chinese in an attempt to play it off, people may have given her more a break because the Chinese do not use 平假名 (hiragana) in their writing. Yuta and another user he referenced in the video correctly (and unlike many speakers/learners of the language to their own dismay) note that considering the meanings of the Japanese Kanji alone, her first version would be "technically correct," albeit lacking in grammatical accuracy.
The character in question【 輪 】is especially interesting for this discussion because of the common fluidity of usage in Chinese and Japanese. 【 七輪 】, "shichirin," or "qīlún," the Chinese version, would have meant different things depending on context as the character 輪 can mean "wheels, rounds, turns, round objects, etc." In most contexts, it is used as "wheels," and if you were to continue to accurately denote it, 輪子 , this would mean "wheel" by convention. Conversely, to make it clear one was using the term "rings," we like to use the characters 戒指 .
So, it's a weird thing. I don't think she deserved the mockery by the know-it-alls of the internet given the pictographic nature of the language, and it's not like she would know any better herself (I, however, would like to understand why someone did not advise her considering the permanent nature of a tattoo, given she could not do proper research -- or, for that matter, look at the subtext in her own music video for reference) but it's obviously beyond me and my opinion.
Like I said in another thread, if she had said it was Chinese in an attempt to play it off, people may have given her more a break because the Chinese do not use 平假名 (hiragana) in their writing. Yuta and another user he referenced in the video correctly (and unlike many speakers/learners of the language to their own dismay) note that considering the meanings of the Japanese Kanji alone, her first version would be "technically correct," albeit lacking in grammatical accuracy.
The character in question【 輪 】is especially interesting for this discussion because of the common fluidity of usage in Chinese and Japanese. 【 七輪 】, "shichirin," or "qīlún," the Chinese version, would have meant different things depending on context as the character 輪 can mean "wheels, rounds, turns, round objects, etc." In most contexts, it is used as "wheels," and if you were to continue to accurately denote it, 輪子 , this would mean "wheel" by convention. Conversely, to make it clear one was using the term "rings," we like to use the characters 戒指 .
So, it's a weird thing. I don't think she deserved the mockery by the know-it-alls of the internet given the pictographic nature of the language, and it's not like she would know any better herself (I, however, would like to understand why someone did not advise her considering the permanent nature of a tattoo, given she could not do proper research -- or, for that matter, look at the subtext in her own music video for reference) but it's obviously beyond me and my opinion.
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Wings 嫩翼翻せ
so it's not nice
Definitely. She surely paid for that bit.
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K1Expwy
Member
Too many homonyms.
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Wings 嫩翼翻せ
so it's not nice
I assume you're talking about Chinese.
If that bothers you, Japanese is open. I for one very much enjoy the nature of the language, both its writing system and method of expression in speech.
K1Expwy
Member
My foreign language background is Japanese. Switching to the alphabet or even something like hangul would hide inherent meanings in a lot of Japan's vocabulary and phrases (and I assume Chinese dialects that I'm not familiar with). "Ononono" for only one example can mean several completely things, without kanji to distinguish them.
The ideographic system also helps introduce foreign concepts that wasn't part of Japan's history. Things like chemical compounds, diseases etc.
And kanji looks cool, even though the 1990s era of silly tattoos played them out
The ideographic system also helps introduce foreign concepts that wasn't part of Japan's history. Things like chemical compounds, diseases etc.
And kanji looks cool, even though the 1990s era of silly tattoos played them out
Wings 嫩翼翻せ
so it's not nice
I think inherent meanings are useful in enough situations where they are not yet obsolete.
I guess there is a bigger case for Japanese speakers... there has to be Kanji present for clarifications a lot of the time, while in Chinese the clarification is more often brought upon by the subparts of the characters (Kanji doesn't always work because some of the borrowed characters are simplified versions, as you would know). As I have delved a bit into medical Chinese, there is ample space for specification for chemicals, diagnostics, malaise, etc. but I will say English is superior in this sense, as the expression of such in Chinese gets a little wonky. In those cases though, scientists are urged to learn English anyway.
And yeah for sure the characters are visually appealing and hard to let go of for this reason alone IMO.
I guess there is a bigger case for Japanese speakers... there has to be Kanji present for clarifications a lot of the time, while in Chinese the clarification is more often brought upon by the subparts of the characters (Kanji doesn't always work because some of the borrowed characters are simplified versions, as you would know). As I have delved a bit into medical Chinese, there is ample space for specification for chemicals, diagnostics, malaise, etc. but I will say English is superior in this sense, as the expression of such in Chinese gets a little wonky. In those cases though, scientists are urged to learn English anyway.
And yeah for sure the characters are visually appealing and hard to let go of for this reason alone IMO.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Chinese characters are cool, and have much greater information density than most phonetic alphabets. Getting rid of them would be a loss for human culture.
Wings 嫩翼翻せ
so it's not nice
I don't know if you watch "Killing Eve," bit there is a segment where Villanelle (a main character) is discussing with a little girl information. Upon showing off about how many each know, they say,
"Language is information, and information is everything."
It's verily how I feel, especially concerning the Chinese language.
Dontero
Banned
After watching it i am honestly suprised Japanese developed civilization let alone modern one.
Whole language seems like string of random ideas that went horribly wrong.
Red Crayon Aristocrat
Member
I agree they seem like intimidating languages to learn, but Asian characters just look so cool.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
"Copying" is relative in the grand scheme of cultural exchange, unless you subscribe to that "cultural appropriation" stuff in a hardcore way. Lots of early anime was inspired by Disney, but then, 40 years later, you could say the creators of The Lion King were, err, "inspired" by anime.
hecatomb
Banned
I've also seen Japanese with shits that have American words on them.
triplestation
Member
Japan made mistakes too but they're awesome and not inaccurate:
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
hecatomb
Banned
just search for bad English on Japanese shirts.
...
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Yeah I know about Japanese people using English words badly too, that's pretty common knowledge on the internet. I was just poking fun at your typo
hecatomb
Banned
my computer has a auto correct spelling on it, and I have no idea how to get rid of it.Yeah I know about Japanese people using English words badly too, that's pretty common knowledge on the internet. I was just poking fun at your typo
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Well, shirt.
HoodWinked
Member
The small charcoal grill is absolutely hilarious. If the tattoo were correct no one would have gave a shit. And it's no different than all the meaningless tattoos that you see on these dime a dozen pop stars. She should have just left it.
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Wings 嫩翼翻せ
so it's not nice
In any case, it seems Ariana is more fond of kanji than hiragana... while I was learning Japanese, I found myself preferring the former as well, and most times I found it incredibly annoying that a lot of people liked to use hiragana in a conventionally unorthodox manner -- an excuse, perhaps -- for insufficient grasp of kanji because it made writing nearly impossible to understand (doesn't help coming from a Chinese background, where the characters provide more than enough contextual data per case).
Porcile
Member
Love how some people were like but "she's fluent in Japanese" but if you watch any video of her speaking Japanese it's the most baby-level Japanese there is. No reason to defend such a baka when even the most basic amount of research would've sufficed before getting this permanently put onto her skin.
I have to assume 平假名 is Chinese or outdated kanji because hiragana is 平仮名 in Japanese. Have never ever seen 平假名 used before.
I have to assume 平假名 is Chinese or outdated kanji because hiragana is 平仮名 in Japanese. Have never ever seen 平假名 used before.
Wings 嫩翼翻せ
so it's not nice
Yes, 仮 is the Japanese variant of 假 .
Wings 嫩翼翻せ
so it's not nice
As someone who put blood, sweat, and tears into getting Japanese, I will tell you Chinese is considerably easier to grasp. The grammar tropes aren't as debilitating for me, personally. I think the internet's issue is the complex structure of the characters, but it's really not that hard if you are putting a genuine effort in...
Most would probably disagree with your intuition on Japanese, anyway.
Either way, the hardest thing for me is listening to Chinese/Japanese-language media. They have done well to make subtitles a convention, as I have an increasingly hard time understanding speech on television and in videos. I'm sure it will come with time, though.
Sakura
Member
Eh, kanji isn't any more difficult to learn than learning to spell in English in my opinion.
Sure there are a bunch of kanji you have to remember, but in English you have to remember how to spell a bunch of words. You may often hear that there are thousands of kanji that you have to remember, compared to 26 letters in English, but it's not like all the kanji are unique. They are made up of parts you already know. So it is kind of like spelling to me.
Japanese overall is pretty easy to learn.
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
Personally, I’m curious what is written in Chinese down the spines of several porn actresses, but knowing them, it was well researched and makes perfect sense. Ain’t no one gonna be able to do their business with a typo on their face.
Dontero
Banned
3 types of written words, 2 hand drawn versions of those which are not very similar to printed, lack of space between words to signal end of word...
Kanji by itself is thousands of hieroglyphs that each could be used in few different ways not really telling properly what is going on.
I am yet to hear english people explaining meaning of their names to get people write it correctly.
It is clusterfuck.
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Sakura
Member
Hiragana and Katakana combined is less than 100 characters. Little kids can memorise hundreds of Pokemon, I don't think memorising the kana is a big deal. If you take any decent Japanese language class they teach you the Kana in like a couple weeks. Besides you could say the same with English, two types of written letters, upper and lower case, and then all the cursive writings.
I'm not sure why lack of space would be important. If you had an elementary level understanding of Japanese you'd understand why spaces don't matter.
English words can be used in different ways too, so I am not sure what you mean. For example in that sentence I used the word 'mean'. This can have an entirely different meaning from how I used it, such as 'he is a mean person'. You understand based on context.
As for names... English is the same, we just use spelling. You might say your name is Caitlin, with a C instead of a K, and an I instead of a Y, to get people to write it properly.
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
It's bad, don't get me wrong. I studied kanji for years and I don't know many of the 2200 basic kanji (anymore, turns out that if you don't use it, you lose it). But hiragana and katakana can be learned literally in an afternoon. Also, katakana is used almost exclusively for borrowed words, the majority English, which means if you can read katakana, you can already read a thousand or so Japanese words (ones that come up a lot in computing, so import games are easily navigated).
I don't think even Japanese people can read Japanese calligraphy.
As for lack of spaces, Japanese uses particles to indicate their function that follow after most words. For instance "This morning, I went to the store" would be (noun) (particle) (noun) (particle) (noun) (particle) (verb). The particles become very obvious with practice.
For kanji, there's multiple readings per kanji (the Chinese reading and the Japanese reading). There's usually only one Chinese reading and it is used primarily for compound words. For many of them, their Chinese reading is based on the primary radical in the kanji, so you can predict how it will read much of the time. If you see a kanji with radical for mouth on the left side, it will be pronounced one way (except for one or two exceptions because nothing is ever that easy).
The Japanese reading can have six or seven different ways to read it depending on the hiragana is used with, and there's not an easy way to learn it beyond memorization. The is a consequence of Japanese being a language before trying to shoehorn a Chinese writing system in.
Sakura
Member
I can't think of any kanji that has 6 or 7 different readings that you would seriously have to remember. It's typically just two or three you should remember, which are easily discernible for the most part by whether it is a compound or not, or as you say the kana that comes after. The other readings, if the kanji even has more, are generally rare enough that it doesn't matter.
The cool thing with kanji is you don't even really have to know how it is read to get the meaning. ie 北東 isn't read as kita higashi, but even if you didn't know that you'd still know what it means.
Wings 嫩翼翻せ
so it's not nice
This is definitely one of my least favorite parts. If we could just use Kun readings of each Kanji, I'd be so happy. But no....... classic and favorite example is for "人" (jin, hito) so we have things like "あの 外人 の 綺麗 時計 を たくさん 美人 です。" (Forgive me if that's wrong, it has been a while) and it drives me nuts.
Ya think you maybe have a skill er something, mate???
Joking aside, all it takes is some practice. I love the fact that I can read things sometimes in Chinese without knowing how it sounds, as sometimes I would forget the pronunciation. This of course fails when met with hiragana in a setting where context-specific writing is necessary.
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Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
While true, to a beginner, it is often not obvious which words are super rare and don't need to be remembered.
That's why I really advocate for the Remembering the Kanji approach. I wish they had it back when I was in college learning Japanese. If you don't know what it is, it teaches you an English code word for each individual kanji which represents its meaning, allowing you to basically learn how to write and understand kanji without ANY Japanese. When I did it, I learned the Jouyou kanji in three months (but then, not practicing for a decade kinda killed that progress). Between RtK and katakana, you may not be fluent in Japanese (or even know any of it), but you can get around in it.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
This girl seems like the biggest airhead in the world
Hope she enjoys her 15 mins of fame
Hope she enjoys her 15 mins of fame
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
Dude she was a nobody from a kids show that made it and is popular af for whatever reason (looks like a little kid cough) she's going to be in the celeb news or w/e their called...E? For at least 10 years.
Chairman Tickles
Banned
Those Chinese character tattoos are so stupid. It's like tattooing words using Latin script. Corny af.
Sqorin Hammerfarf
Banned
It's pretty trashy. It's not quite tramp stamp that says 'additional parking in the rear' trashy, but certainly a step or two below LOVE and HATE tattooed on the knuckles.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Wings 嫩翼翻せ
While we are at the topic, would you tell me how to pronounce your username? Internally, I read you as "dense characters" - or after your photo as Phoenix Wright - but that might be slightly inaccurate.
No Word Count
Member
When you're this famous, every single public action you take is a marketing decision.
Showing off her tattoo on public media was a promotional stunt that went badly wrong. Heck, just getting the tattoo was almost definitely a marketing idea itself, done entirely to appeal to her large Japanese fanbase.
The reason they messed it up so badly? Simple. They didn't know any better, and got it wrong.
Wings 嫩翼翻せ
so it's not nice
Yeah.
You pronounce it as nènyì (nehn-yee). 嫩 means "delicate, tender" and 翼 means "wings," why some folks call me that on here.
Good point; I had forgotten sometimes people like to take cool things just for the sake of them being cool, and not to celebrate culture...
Heck, I agree with you. That sort of mistake has little room for excuse.
Whitesnake
Banned
Kanji and their uses are hard to understand and memorize for someone who only knows english. Which is why it’s usually a bad idea to get a kanji tattoo.
Katakana and Hiragana are a lot easier, but they aren’t as cool-looking or “symbolic” as kanji, so basic white girls like Ariana Grande probably wouldn’t like it.
Katakana and Hiragana are a lot easier, but they aren’t as cool-looking or “symbolic” as kanji, so basic white girls like Ariana Grande probably wouldn’t like it.
Wings 嫩翼翻せ
so it's not nice
I've decided I wanna continue learning Japanese. Thank you, Ariana Grande!
Dontero
Banned
Yeah except Hiragana or Katakana is never used alone from what i have seen. If that would be the case then it would be easy to learn.
But most of the time from what i have personally seen it is mixed up. Hiragana, Katakana and worst of it Kanji in same sentences jumbled up together.
MindaRi
Neo Member
Oh I'll never understand love for chinese or japanese ieroglifs. I love how they look. And to be honest I think I'll try to learn japanese language. But my friend once wanted to make tattoo with ieroglifs. Master told that it means "Brave warrior" or something like this. So he went and master made it with tattoo gun. But when he made it and we went for a walk we met some japanese tourist. And omg how they laughed. I want tell how they translated it because lol it's hilarious, but I promised not to tell translation to anyone. Well the only thing to do was to get ink away from skin. Well if anybody would be in such situation here take a look (https:// tattooist.com/collections/coil-tattoo-machines)