EdibleExplosives
Member
Just because you've been a victim of something, doesn't mean you have the right to tell people how they should react to it.
It's also a lot different if you're a celebrity, and millions of people are viewing your pics online.
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Jennifer Lawrence talks about being violated
- Thread starter ReturnOfTheRAT
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Just because you've been a victim of something, doesn't mean you have the right to tell people how they should react to it.
It's also a lot different if you're a celebrity, and millions of people are viewing your pics online.
There are nude pics of me out there, what's the big deal? Yeah maybe a total of six people want to see them vs billions of people spanning the entire globe, but whatevs same thing, lighten up JLaw!
there are not nude pics of me out there
t-storm
Member
This has nothing to do with being sexual.
It has more to do with having common sense and the discretion and judgement to not have hundreds of nude pictures of yourself on your phone.
Many adults who are not celebrities know this and know better.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
The only common sense argument to be made here is that it's common sense not to blame people for their private nude pictures getting released to the public.
I literally don't get what you're saying. How is keeping photos of myself on my phone not common sense?
Brian Griffin
Member
What is wrong with having tons of self nudes on your phone?
t-storm
Member
I never said they were to blame, it's obviously a violation.
I would just never have that kind of material on my phone because of privacy reasons. If you're a celebrity, a politician, anyone in the public eye, this is something you should be especially aware of.
Nothing, just be aware of the potential privacy risks/hazards.
"I'm a celebrity with hundreds of self nude pics on my phone. What could possibly go wrong?"
She did get special treatment as well as the other celebrities, because they are celebrities.
http://www.tmz.com/2014/09/01/celebrity-nude-photo-leak-fbi-kate-upton-jennifer-lawrence/
If my nudes got leaked and I contacted the FBI they would tell me to pound sand.
The FBI got/has been involved because it was celebrities.
"They could be stolen and then jerks on the internet might imply I was partially to blame."
If someone takes my phone and somehow gets past my password, I don't expect to be blamed for someone putting out my nude pics, and if you think I would deserve to get blamed for it then...well that's a little fucked up.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
What does "hey be aware of hackers and where your stuff is" even mean here? Yeah, they exist, and shit happens. Now what?
Anton Sugar
Member
It's a roundabout way of saying, "If she hadn't stored them online, then they wouldn't have been stolen."
Liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiike...
No shit.
I don't understand why you always come into these threads telling people to suck it up all the time. Your life is yours buddy, you can't dictate how the rest of the world responds to these things. To you, this is no big deal, but she says she feels violated and it hurts her. Show some empathy and lay off all that other mess.
I know you are pro sexuality and that's great but she's not comfortable with this situation. You should respect that.
It's a way for the creeps to drop the suggestion in there that maaaybe she could have been a bit more careful if she didn't want fucking perverts to steal her stuff! Like, hey, I'm not saying she isn't a victim, but she should totally be the voice for protecting your own privacy! That's really the issue here!
JinjoUnchained
Member
It's more complicated than just "stealing is wrong" or "celebrities lose their right to privacy". It's indisputable that these pictures were private property and were illegally stolen. That's wrong.
But people only care about the pictures because she's famous. Major celebrities like JLaw aren't just acting and collecting a paycheck, they're using their lives to cultivate a brand. People go to see her movies because people trust that brand. The brand based upon her personal life (as presented in interviews, People magazine, Tonight Show appearances, Twitter, et al...)
My point is that making a brand out of your personal life is a Pandora's Box. Agents, managers, and social media consultants will try to control what portion of a celeb's personal life is presented to the public, but once people care about that one part then they want to know the rest too. You're fooling yourself if you think you can say to the general public: "I want you to know about personal life!, but only these select parts that make me look good". That's just not realistic, it's against human nature. When you meet someone and learn two interesting things about them, it makes you want to know more.
And celebrities know all this before they start branding themselves. It's a risk-reward trade-off: people care about them so they will go to see their movies and make them rich, but because people care about them they also want to know things beyond what they've been presented. That doesn't make it right to steal intimate pictures and publish them to the world; that is sickening and abhorrent behavior. But it's also a risk celebs take when they start branding themselves and invite the general public into their lives.
This is why I agree with Ricky Gervais 100% when he said that these celebrities need to do a better job protecting themselves. He wasn't being insensitive or cruel, but making the valid point that being a celebrity carries risk of privacy invasion and that you shouldn't store something sensitive where someone can get it. It's like saying don't write all of your passwords on a note and leave it a locked drawer; it's wrong for someone to steal it and should be condemned, but you also have to protect yourself better. Storing sensitive information or pictures in the cloud is not secure.
But people only care about the pictures because she's famous. Major celebrities like JLaw aren't just acting and collecting a paycheck, they're using their lives to cultivate a brand. People go to see her movies because people trust that brand. The brand based upon her personal life (as presented in interviews, People magazine, Tonight Show appearances, Twitter, et al...)
My point is that making a brand out of your personal life is a Pandora's Box. Agents, managers, and social media consultants will try to control what portion of a celeb's personal life is presented to the public, but once people care about that one part then they want to know the rest too. You're fooling yourself if you think you can say to the general public: "I want you to know about personal life!, but only these select parts that make me look good". That's just not realistic, it's against human nature. When you meet someone and learn two interesting things about them, it makes you want to know more.
And celebrities know all this before they start branding themselves. It's a risk-reward trade-off: people care about them so they will go to see their movies and make them rich, but because people care about them they also want to know things beyond what they've been presented. That doesn't make it right to steal intimate pictures and publish them to the world; that is sickening and abhorrent behavior. But it's also a risk celebs take when they start branding themselves and invite the general public into their lives.
This is why I agree with Ricky Gervais 100% when he said that these celebrities need to do a better job protecting themselves. He wasn't being insensitive or cruel, but making the valid point that being a celebrity carries risk of privacy invasion and that you shouldn't store something sensitive where someone can get it. It's like saying don't write all of your passwords on a note and leave it a locked drawer; it's wrong for someone to steal it and should be condemned, but you also have to protect yourself better. Storing sensitive information or pictures in the cloud is not secure.
It's because everyone wants to be a hero that is never wrong about anything, so they have to create shitty rationalizations for behavior that they condone. It's the same reason why no one is racist, and everyone in prison is innocent.
This is all that needs to be said on the matter really, if it were a leak of 1,000,000 non-famous people we wouldn't have the same reaction form the "law"
It's bullshit, if you keep personal shit on a device or service that can be stolen/hacked you can't be too upset when it becomes public, celebs are lucky to have special treatment on the matter.
I'm not victim blaming, I'm just saying they need to keep expectations in check when they get pried on. They put themselves in the public spotlight.
Exactly. And then proceed to save every picture of her that was leaked because hey, responsibility isn't on me right? Wrong.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yes you are.
You're also attempting to minimize her emotional reaction to having her private photographs leaked to millions of people on the internet, and suggesting that her expectations regarding such a violation were "out of check."
This is exactly what blaming the victim for being victimized looks like.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Jennifer Lawrence is an actress, just like literally millions of women. It's a job. She didn't wake up and say "I'm really famous today." It just happens to her. She didn't put herself in the public spotlight, she just starred in some damn movies and promotes them like every actor on the planet.
Look at reddit/4chan other sites on a daily basis "gf/bf dumps" where is the outrage there?
So, she is famous because of her job, got it.
And literally millions of women and millions of men too I suppose. It seems I need to switch to acting since it's such an explosive career option...oh wait it's not.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
"Outrage." Get over yourself. People don't have to be vigilant in all places for your benefit.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't know, I don't look at reddit/4chan sites on a daily basis for "gf/bf dumps"
I don't even know how that's supposed to be a rebuttal to my assertion that despite your disclaimer, you ARE victim blaming.
Uh, there is outrage, and action over shit like that. You have no idea what you're talking about.
http://www.ncsl.org/research/teleco...echnology/state-revenge-porn-legislation.aspx
Anton Sugar
Member
"The atrocity in this other area is ignored or accepted, so we should ignore or accept said atrocity in all other areas"
Citation needed.
"Look, over there!"
JesseEwiak
Member
Well, for one, most of the women out there don't know if their tapes/pics have been leaked, since the chances of somebody who only knows a few hundred people coming upon one of those few hundred people who have a sex video out there, is kind of slim.
But, there are laws passed against revenge porn in various states and "normal" people have got people charged.
There is plenty of outrage, but yes, a world famous celebrity will get more written about her, since there's the celebrity and the outrage angle.
It's a terrible thing to be a victim of, for sure. Can't imagine how terrible it must feel, but as an celebrity/icon she has the power to win over this. One thing that does irk me is that it seems a bit inconsiderate to tell EVERYONE who saw some of the pictures to be ashamed of themselves, considering (all the celebs) pictures were plastered all over Twitter and pushed into some people's newsfeeds who had no intention or desire to see them. But, yeah, overall she responds well.
JinjoUnchained
Member
Using the "royal you" here. It's common in many cases for people to want to learn more about someone after hearing a couple of interesting things. That's been my experience, at least.
This really has nothing to do with the poor point you're trying to make.
That this happens to others doesn't make Jennifer Lawrence any more at fault for having her privacy violated.
faceless007
Member
How many of you really follow "Don't store personal stuff in the cloud" to its logical conclusion? If you use GMail or iCloud Mail or Outlook for your primary email then all your email is in the cloud. Ever send any emails about family matters or financial or job or other personal issues that you wouldn't want made public and exposed to your employers or your landlord or your parents, let alone the whole world? If you use iMessage, Whatsapp or Google Voice, all your texts are in the cloud. Ever complain about someone over text or vent to a friend with something you would prefer they keep to themselves? If you use Google Docs or Office Live or Dropbox for any personal documents -- letters, agreements, financial info, spreadsheets -- that's in the cloud too. You OK with that being downloadable to everyone in the world?
How many of you use Mint.com? Cloud. Even if you don't, all your banking information is already in the cloud. Most online stores store your credit card info by default. If your CC is ever hacked, are you OK saying it's your fault for shopping online to begin with?
Do you have any privacy settings enabled on your Facebook or LinkedIn or any other account? By this logic, you shouldn't, because everything you post to your personal profile you should be perfectly happy if it were exposed to the whole world and if they're ever compromised it's your fault you posted something that you only wanted specific people to see.
How many of you use Mint.com? Cloud. Even if you don't, all your banking information is already in the cloud. Most online stores store your credit card info by default. If your CC is ever hacked, are you OK saying it's your fault for shopping online to begin with?
Do you have any privacy settings enabled on your Facebook or LinkedIn or any other account? By this logic, you shouldn't, because everything you post to your personal profile you should be perfectly happy if it were exposed to the whole world and if they're ever compromised it's your fault you posted something that you only wanted specific people to see.
Exactly, it was a self feeding frenzy, you didn't need to seek them out as they were shoved out in a tidal wave.
If you are in the public eye, people want to know about you, every aspect. it sucks but it is what it is, don't want the attention, be it good or bad, then don't step into the spotlight...
Yeah for real. All this.
It's not human nature to want to pry into people's private lives or to override ethical dilemmas because of sexual desire. Stop defending people that can't control their ravenous need to consume naked women.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I like this post a lot.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This is still victim blaming, by the way.
Anton Sugar
Member
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
This post really nails it. Specially bolded parts. I havent got ANY photos online, but I think very few of us have not emailed confidential information over instant messaging or gmail and the like.
JinjoUnchained
Member
Projecting into my comments much? Cite anywhere in my post where I defended people for invading her privacy. I'll wait. If you read my post carefully this time, you'll see that I called out the thieves and called them "sickening" and "abhorrent". Some defense!
Problem I have with this topic is that if you say anything other than "I'm so sad for the victim" and "burn the thieves", then people put words in your mouth that you support the criminals. I don't, obviously, and made that abundantly clear. I wasn't defending anyone, but, rather, analyzing the risks and rewards of fame. Am I not allowed to have a constructive discussion about that?
Great post. It's for this very reason that I don't email, text, or do anything electronically that I wouldn't want everyone to know. That's not "blaming the victim"; it's wrong to hack someone's accounts and post their private information. It's an entirely different point: be aware of how you communicate and protect yourself.
EdibleKnife
Member
So she should quit and become a secretary? People should be chased away from doing what they love just because of the bad attention? I don't know why it seems that you don't feel she's justified in being furious with the situation. Just knowing the risks of an occupation doesn't excuse the bullshit. The bullshit will continue to be bullshit and you can still be angry about it.
t-storm
Member
This.
The saying, "don't put anything in an email, you wouldn't want to see on the front page of a newspaper" has surely been heard before throughout people's professional careers? If that email got leaked and there was something contentious in it, clearly it would be a violation on behalf of the receiver but also it would have been poor discretion and judgement on behalf of the sender.
These things are just common sense to so many people.
GoldenEye 007
Member
To be fair, all of that stuff carries heavy recommendations to be vigilant in monitoring credit information and activity. And of course if you are not vigilant and don't notice issues with your accounts, you can be in a very bad place. The consequences can be crippling without proactive monitoring.
Facebook, Twitter and other accounts are notorious for ruining careers and lives too based on the information posted on those accounts. And again, the communication out there is to be careful about what you post and what you allow to be out there and that by just being online, things aren't always as private as you might think they are.
And ultimately, the main consequence of all of this is you catch it, report it, and get refunds pretty quickly, and get a new card or other information. In the scheme of things, the consequences aren't that bad. Except for the social media stuff I guess.
But for those that don't pay attention, the consequences can be crippling.
I think it's less about fault and no fault, but more just the unfortunate reality of the situation. People will have their personal limits on what they put out there and will weigh the consequences. The reality is that as a higher profile person, you probably also have more targets on your back. It's all wrong and it should not be like that, but that's the consideration a person has to make.
I for example, never post photos of me drinking online anymore and I've deleted ones I have posted online. It's legal and ok technically, but I know even if I only mean for those photos to go to the specific people I want, other parties can still potentially get to them and use it against me. So my response is to just not put them out there.
This is one of those cases if I could have a standing ovation, I totally would.
That's his point, though. It's ridiculous to have to live your life in fear that in any one of the bazillion places people use with the expectation that some privacy is involved, you might have your stuff ganked and then later be told by fucked up individuals that "well you know maybe you should have expected this shit, why are you using the service that way."
To me, it's a bit similar to the way people were all "well if you don't want to fear being bombed, you shouldn't draw pictures of Mohammed!" It totally misses the point that if you stop drawing pictures of Mohammed because you're afraid, the terrorists literally win. In this same way, why should people not be allowed to send nude pictures to one another? Why should they have to live life in fear that some asshole is going to hack a system or find some exploit and then post their private, intimate shit all over the place? We live in a modern age. In the past, people would send photos to one another in the mail, and then the risk was someone might intercept and share it with people. And back then people would say that's fucked up too.
But should people just stop sharing nude photos with people they love? Is that the world we want, where we have to have a finger wagging at every victim who has their privacy violated in the most grotesque way?
I'm not saying there's an easy solution. I am saying the conversation decisively needs to shift away from implications of victims being able to do anything, that they have to change their life habits when they're doing nothing wrong at all. They shouldn't have to do anything but try their best to educate themselves on the ways to improve their possibilities for privacy. But even if they don't, at no point do they ever share a part of any blame or anything at all. The companies that have these cloud services need to become more vigilant. The laws need to become far harsher. The people who discuss the subjects need to be far kinder to the victims and far more fucked up to the criminals and people (and friends) who traffic in this sort of content.
We need to change the way the world thinks, one mind at a time.
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
So, is JLaw going to sue Reddit over this? I'd be in favor of that.
GoldenEye 007
Member
Oh certainly it isn't her fault. And I agree overall what you're saying.This is one of those cases if I could have a standing ovation, I totally would.
That's his point, though. It's ridiculous to have to live your life in fear that in any one of the bazillion places people use with the expectation that some privacy is involved, you might have your stuff ganked and then later be told by fucked up individuals that "well you know maybe you should have expected this shit, why are you using the service that way."
To me, it's a bit similar to the way people were all "well if you don't want to fear being bombed, you shouldn't draw pictures of Mohammed!" It totally misses the point that if you stop drawing pictures of Mohammed because you're afraid, the terrorists literally win. In this same way, why should people not be allowed to send nude pictures to one another? Why should they have to live life in fear that some asshole is going to hack a system or find some exploit and then post their private, intimate shit all over the place? We live in a modern age. In the past, people would send photos to one another in the mail, and then the risk was someone might intercept and share it with people. And back then people would say that's fucked up too.
But should people just stop sharing nude photos with people they love? Is that the world we want, where we have to have a finger wagging at every victim who has their privacy violated in the most grotesque way?
I'm not saying there's an easy solution. I am saying the conversation decisively needs to shift away from implications of victims being able to do anything, that they have to change their life habits when they're doing nothing wrong at all. They shouldn't have to do anything but try their best to educate themselves on the ways to improve their possibilities for privacy. But even if they don't, at no point do they ever share a part of any blame or anything at all. The companies that have these cloud services need to become more vigilant. The laws need to become far harsher. The people who discuss the subjects need to be far kinder to the victims and far more fucked up to the criminals and people (and friends) who traffic in this sort of content.
We need to change the way the world thinks, one mind at a time.
My concern though is that it is just unrealistically idealistic. All you describe would be perfect but I just can't ever see it being a reality. Especially as it gets easier and easier to mass disseminate information. Noble or sinister.
So then it becomes well yeah I shouldn't have to think about not sharing some info with certain people or a loved one, but realistically, I'll have to think about it.
I just don't know what to do outside of trusting in companies more to adopt even better security protocols so it isn't easy for your communications or info to be intercepted or broken into. It's a least a stopgap until depraved people no longer exist.
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