I can only speak for myself but I've not been giving the advice as much as I've defended it's usefulness for those who need it.
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Jennifer Lawrence talks about being violated
- Thread starter ReturnOfTheRAT
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I can only speak for myself but I've not been giving the advice as much as I've defended it's usefulness for those who need it.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
That's...not a great analogy. Maybe...if you were getting photos of you and your wife developed and the kid at the photo place printed out a hundred copies of the two of you naked and posted them around the town with text saying "I have more if you ask"?
Except no-one gets photos developed anymore.
I say the odds are different depending what part of town you are in.
EdibleKnife
Member
People upload alot of shit to the cloud. Fact is stuff gets stolen not because it's uploaded but because it's stolen. Nobody is granting people free reign to their stuff when they use a private service to store it.
I would say being mugged 100% correlates with going outside no matter what part of town you're in.
Why do people actually think uploading something to the icloud is secure? Why? Because Apple says it is? Because you have a login/password to gain access?
It's not secure.
Just like Facebook...and gmail, and anything else you use via the internet, it's not secure.
I wouldn't send private photos via my gmail to anyone if I didn't want everyone to see it.
I most certainly wouldn't store personal photos on some cloud device just because it's called secure.
Secure is your own personal home computer...store them there. or on an HDD, or somewhere that's NOT stored online.
It's not secure.
Just like Facebook...and gmail, and anything else you use via the internet, it's not secure.
I wouldn't send private photos via my gmail to anyone if I didn't want everyone to see it.
I most certainly wouldn't store personal photos on some cloud device just because it's called secure.
Secure is your own personal home computer...store them there. or on an HDD, or somewhere that's NOT stored online.
No one has the right but they are going to do it anyway.
That doesn't justify it, and people in here are trying to justify it.
They're trying to victim blame.
They're trying to say they deserve it.
They're trying to say they shouldn't do what they want to do,because some perv might hack into their account and get a hold of their pictures.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
No. People found out about it, and the pics were searched most before Lawrence ever said a single thing.
Your read on how this broke down is just wrong, man.
So now, not only are you focusing on how having her nude photos stolen is her fault, you're advocating that she shouldn't speak up on how this theft has violated her privacy to an amazing level.
This is not a good look.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
This is why I don't envy celebrities one bit. Too many people trying to pry into your personal life and whenever someone goes too far and you complain, everyone lines up to tell you how being violated was apparently part of your contract.
Where in the hell do you get off thinking I said I have a right or anyone has a right to access it? Please do not put words in my mouth.
Hackers are in the wrong obviously. I'm simply saying, Ms. Lawerence shouldn't have uploaded those photos to the damn cloud. No one should, especially anything sensitive and private.
I have personal photos of my wife...damn if I would store them in the freaking cloud.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Nope, I'm not saying that. But while we're on the topic, do you consider self-defense courses that advise things like "don't go into dark alleys" and "always have a buddy" to be abhorrent?
You shouldn't need details. God damn.
Would you. Leave $100. In the park. Unattended.
Nobody's said the hackers have a right to Lawrence's photos.
I don't think that's true, but I just jumped in. I just see it as something that can happen and not something that should.
Explain to me why "she shouldn't have" uploaded that.
The system was labeled as secure.
If you want to blame someone for "shouldn't have done that" it's the hackers who try to get into celeb accounts.
Encrypted hard drive with key turn in safey box yes??????
Resident_UA
Member
Well you have great friends then. I don't trust anyone with anything and I would never upload pictures that I would not want some people to see anywhere. Those do not necessarily need to be "naked" pictures. They could be illegal activity or just plain acting stupid. It does not excuse the hackers, but it the event that I was hacked my first reaction would be "it was stupid of me to upload this" not " I was violated."
No, that's the whole point of my post.
"Don't go outside, so you don't get mugged, raped, whatever" is obviously blaming the victim.
"Don't upload sensitive data to servers" is simply common sense. It's like telling someone to "lock the door of your house". It's like telling someone to not send creditcard numbers on a postcard. It's like telling someone to not put important items into a warehouse complex, that got broken into every few days, weeks or months for 20 years now. Especially when it's known for years now that the government including all sorts of government meth heads snoop around that warehouse all the time. It's like telling someone to not send sensitive data to the Apple CEO and the whole Apple server department.
Servers on the internet will always get hacked. And corporations are not to be trusted anyway. That's why you don't put sensitive stuff on there, especially when PR people call those servers some fancy word. And you also don't keep important stuff on there without having a copy at home, because otherwise you are at the mercy of that corporation. It's that easy.
People simply don't give a shit about their data nowadays, otherwise they would take care of it.
What does this even mean.
I think we already know why. But hey not everyone can be computer savy. No doubt we except too much tech savy from the general public. But even if she is not aware about the dangers of the cloud.. she could always forget her phone in the car.
Always-honest
Banned
Haha, yeah i bet he didn't watch porn for those years.
Anyway, she makes good points. It's disgusting what happened to these people.
We really need a threat about victim blaming. I understand the concept but I still have questions about it. Like, you are in a bad neighborhood and leave your bike unlocked and it gets stolen. Now, I know nobody deserves their property stolen; but what do you expect? World is not utopia where everyone will respect your rights. Since there is more heinous crimes then stealing somebody's bike the issue gets difficult to discuss. On the other hand do we really need to discuss about it? As I said nobody deserves to be victim of any kind of crime...
Last week I left my bike unlocked and it got stolen :b I said to myself that it will only be 30 minutes, nobody is going to steal my crappy bike in that time. I blame myself. Had I locked my bike, I would still have it.
Last week I left my bike unlocked and it got stolen :b I said to myself that it will only be 30 minutes, nobody is going to steal my crappy bike in that time. I blame myself. Had I locked my bike, I would still have it.
No doubt that's how I feel. DTA. Don't trust anybody.
If someone were mugged and you told them they shouldn't have gone down the dark alley in response to that mugging (thereby assigning them some of the responsibility), yes I would.
You think I shouldn't need details because your understanding of the world is flawed. If you want an answer you'll need to provide a complete question.
You're telling him what his reaction should be???????.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This is what we were talking about earlier in the thread, when people start resorting to bad analogies and goofy hypotheticals - It's an attempt to recontextualize the conversation so that it becomes much more focused on how smart the advice-giving segment of the community is.
This analogy you're trying to lure people into is busted because we're not talking about unattended public parks. We're talking about a saved backup of a personal photo hidden behind a password.
Jennifer Lawrence didn't leave a 100 dollar bill on a park bench. She mailed a 100 dollar bill in a card through the postal service to a specific recipient and someone stole her money.
And yes, you can suggest then that someone shouldn't put cash in the mail. I get that. But again, this is not "helpful" in that the point is almost always to be patronizing and condescending as a means to point out how much more together you've got it than the celebrities we're discussing. It's self-aggrandizing bullshit at best, most easily evidenced by the ease with which so many people are using the words "it's simple as that" or a variation on it. Helping isn't really the concern. Shaming is. It's so "SIMPLE" and they got it wrong. THAT's the point of "helping" in these cases.
It's not helping.
This isn't about computer savvyness.
If someone grabbed her phone from her car it would be theft. A bunch of people on here are saying that "she uploaded it online so who cares". They'd be the same people talking about "she shouldn't have taken the pictures.
The media changes, but the violation doesn't.
I switched the wrong punctuation, I'll grab one of yours.
CadetMahoney
Member
Your argument may be a discussion point but compared to the thread it's so far away from putting stuff on iCloud which gets hacked.
A better analogy would be telling PSN victims "what did you expect" or something when it was supposed to be secure (both wrong to do so btw). At least Sony apologized sincerely. . .
No, telling someone they shouldn't have put their photos on iCloud after they've been stolen is victim blaming. Unquestionably.
Regardless of hackers...take them out of the equation. K?
Do you think your online email account is 100% secure that you're the only one reading your emails?
So, if you upload a photo to your secure icloud...do you think you're really the only one viewing it?
I don't know if that's what people are really saying. I wouldn't say I don't care.
Personally I wouldn't do it on my phone and it's not because it makes baby Jesus cry. It would just be dreadful if I lost it. I'd like to think someone would hold it in safe keeping but you never know.
Apple is to blame because they made it so easy to brute force. Uploading something to a private account in iCloud is not like leaving money on a park bench. It is similar to having your house broken into and someone stealing a photos/videotape there within. The law was broken to get the pictures.
I'm not sure what offline email would be, do you understand how email works? Gmail isn't a very good example, since they specifically do scan your emails and say they do. Yes, I'm certain I'm the only one viewing a photo I uploaded to iCloud.
Do you think your computer connected to the Internet is 100% secure? You can follow this rabbit hole however far you want, but it is just victim blaming.
I'm not sure what offline email would be, do you understand how email works? Gmail isn't a very good example, since they specifically do scan your emails and say they do. Yes, I'm certain I'm the only one viewing a photo I uploaded to iCloud.
Do you think your computer connected to the Internet is 100% secure? You can follow this rabbit hole however far you want, but it is just victim blaming.
Resident_UA
Member
The difference between you and me is that I expect it. How can my first reaction be that I was violated if I was expecting this to happen? Sure, there would be some of that feeling, but that would not be my first reaction. For example I go to great lengths to make sure that none of my pictures are uploaded to iCloud. If something did get uploaded and somehow that picture leaked I would feel stupid and maybe angry at Apple for cumbersome process of opting out of stupid iCloud.
TheBryanJZX90
Member
If you really want to give in to the urge to offer advice instead of sympathy, I think this article has some good points:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ures-hackers-advice-blame-freedom-and-timing/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ures-hackers-advice-blame-freedom-and-timing/
IAmRandom31
Banned
How so? Just because one act is done over a computer and the other is done physically?
The same thing happened. These peoples naked bodies were put on display for everyone to see. The act to get that to happen is just not as personal / physical.
The end result is the same though. Except, a more appropriate thing would be say ... a news reporter on a worldwide cable station had their clothes ripped off and left on the TV for all to see. This is a bit more appropriate and more accurate to what occured.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Thanks for posting that!
Take the hackers out of the equation and the security of the service drops alot. If there's no hackers, and I believe the policy of the service I subscribe to, I'm guessing it's just me and whoever I share it with.
The entire first page is filled with people saying "online oh well" .
Why would you feel stupid that the security at icloud failed? That's part of the problem that people fail to see.
Resident_UA
Member
It's really not the same. Internet is whole another thing. You are taking a risk just by "participating". There's a reason why the discussion in Youtube comments is not the same as discussion in the film class. Maybe in the future social rules on the internet will be the same as the rules outside of it, but we are VEEEEEEEEERY FAR from that. You can ignore it, but you can't get away from it...
CadetMahoney
Member
Pretty much. Apple letting simple "Brute Force" methods work (let alone letting hackers circumvent another program within iCloud to do so in the first place) doesn't inspire confidence in their security.
It's like a bank with safes but with outdated super-shitty locks on them.
I was talking generally since the subject of victim blaming has been up lately. I don't really have anything to add to this hacking scandal. I only blame apple for their shoddy customer security. But I think threat about victim blaming would generate interesting discussion. At times it does seem bit excessive how we protect the victim while his actions might have had direct impact of him becoming a victim in a first place. Of a stupid head the whole body has to suffer.
But this is whole another discussion. If somebody comes up with the thread, I'll be here. Sorry for the offtopic.
Resident_UA
Member
Because I don't trust ICloud or internet as a whole. Simple as that. To me iCloud security is not the same as locked door. It would be great if it was, but it is NOT. I really don't understand why people assume that there's such thing as "privacy" on the internet.
I really have to disagree here. Lawerence is a high profile celeb...so first off, her private life is very limited, like it or not, that's a price you pay with becoming a celeb. No different than politicians who start digging up dirt on people...once you become a public figure, you should be VERY aware that anything you feel is private has a higher chance of becoming known to everyone versus your avg joe.
I being the avg person, not a celeb and not in the public eye could probably upload my personal photos to cloud storage and never have a worry about it being compromised. Other than by random chance that someone would come across my personal photos...I could probably have piece of mind that they're safe.
If I were a celeb...hell no. Not associating blame to Lawerence, it is the fault of the hacker breaking into someone's account, however, it's not wrong to say to Lawerence that a lesson is learned here...do not put personal information out on the cloud...simple as that.
This can't be compared to a girl getting raped and then telling her...well you shouldn't have worn those clothes or you shouldn't have walked in that specific area, etc, etc...but there are times where you can legitimately tell someone don't go to that part of town because you know ahead of time it's dangerous.
I think the hackers should get in trouble, just for the record.
So because you made a mistake with your security, the hacker gets a pass to accessing your data?
This is the epitome of victim blaming.
cpp_is_king
Member
Certainly she was victimized, but I think calling it a sex crime as she's done is doing a disservice to the people who have *actually* been affected by sex crimes. Almost every single analogy in this thread is ridiculous. "How would you feel if someone ripped your wife's clothes off and took pictures of her?". Seriously, wtf is this shit?
Here's the best analogy: It's like having private nude photos of you stolen and posted online without your consent.
Stop trying to turn this shit into something it isn't.
"She shouldn't take nude photos if she doesn't want them posted online." She had a reasonable expectation of privacy considering she didn't consent for anyone to look at these photos. This is just victim blaming, which is ironic since I frequently find myself taking the opposite position that I am now. This is a pretty clear cut violation of her privacy.
At the same time, it's next to impossible to stop this kind of stuff. Once it's done it's done. Maybe they'll catch the guy, but that won't exactly help her or anyone else move past this. Best she can do is try to heal. But everyone hold onto your seats, because the next episode of "The Fappening" is yet to come. That much is guaranteed.
Crazy world we live in.
Here's the best analogy: It's like having private nude photos of you stolen and posted online without your consent.
Stop trying to turn this shit into something it isn't.
"She shouldn't take nude photos if she doesn't want them posted online." She had a reasonable expectation of privacy considering she didn't consent for anyone to look at these photos. This is just victim blaming, which is ironic since I frequently find myself taking the opposite position that I am now. This is a pretty clear cut violation of her privacy.
At the same time, it's next to impossible to stop this kind of stuff. Once it's done it's done. Maybe they'll catch the guy, but that won't exactly help her or anyone else move past this. Best she can do is try to heal. But everyone hold onto your seats, because the next episode of "The Fappening" is yet to come. That much is guaranteed.
Crazy world we live in.
How do you know that some Apple person doesn't look at your cloud storage and see the photos? You don't know that. So by not knowing that, wouldn't you think it would be dumb to store sensitive items in the cloud?
TheRedSnifit
Member
But that's what self-defense courses essentially do. Don't go down dark alleys. Don't be alone at night. Don't slouch. Don't be a target. Do you rail against these courses for suggesting that you have some degree of responsibility for your own safety?
Okay. You're sitting at a bench (about 18'' tall) in Yellowstone Park at 2:00 pm. There are approximately twenty people in the same area as you, eight raccoons, a sixteen birds. The wind is blowing at about 5 mph, the temperature is 76 degrees Fahrenheit, solar intensity is about 1 kW per square meter, and radon levels are between 2 and 4 pCi/L. Would you leave a $100 bill unattended on the bench while you go to a bathroom about 200 yards away?
Is that enough information for you? Or do I have to make up personalities for each of the people there and find the curvature of the Earth, too?
I'm not trying to draw a comparison between the two situations so much as I'm trying to get kHarvey to acknowledge that, at some point, you can't simply sit and scream "VICTIM BLAMING" all day. At some point, you have to take some responsibility for getting screwed, and one of those happens to be storing sensitive photos on a service that leaks sensitive photos all the time.
Maybe more fair to say naive?
Didn't say it was your fault. I also didn't say it was Lawerence's fault. I simply made the point that she should more aware that the CLOUD is not a place to store personal photos.
No diff than storing a google doc with all your passwords/login information, bank information, etc. I would never put that information on the cloud for storage.
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