Jeremy Soule, composer of Elder Scrolls soundtrack, has been accused of rape by Nathalie Lawhead

A Regular Guy

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And the accuser is this



Also, kinda sus she posts this right around when Bethesda would start working on the soundtrack

Her tweet


ReeeeRa already demanding to have Bethesda fire Soule
 
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NikuNashi

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And even after they're proven innocent, they will still say you're guilty and still try to destroy your livelyhood
Yeah, just had a confirmatory glance over at PedoEra and as predicted, he is guilty without any trial and should be hung drawn and quartered. Jeez imagine is the actual real world worked as these peoples minds do, I think humanity would have been wiped out by now.
 

NikuNashi

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she should either go to the law or piss off, drumming up a social media mob with no prove no nothing just a accusation out in the open wtf is this shit
Having read the lengthy sad, sad story of overtime, sleeping at the desk, not getting paid on time (All things I and I'm sure almost everybody in the industry have been through at some point) I can conclude that she should never be hired by a games company ever again. She posted confidential company emails on social media, this is a breech of contract and highly unprofessional.
 

Rhysser

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'accused', whether you did it or not your career is over in the west. Guilty until proven innocent is how the mantra goes right.
The vast majority of the time even true accusations lead to absolutely zilch except to victims losing their jobs and careers, which is why it's mostly not reported, despite the few high-profile cases that you see that do. I personally know of a case where there were even pictures, but the person did nothing out of fear of retaliation, so it's good to see people coming forward. This person might not have evidence and if she doesn't, obviously nothing should be done, but if others with evidence see this they might be encouraged to come forward too.
 

danielberg

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Having read the lengthy sad, sad story of overtime, sleeping at the desk, not getting paid on time (All things I and I'm sure almost everybody in the industry have been through at some point) I can conclude that she should never be hired by a games company ever again. She posted confidential company emails on social media, this is a breech of contract and highly unprofessional.
i dont know about any of that i also dont know if it happened or not but what i do know is that when you are a victim of a crime you first stop should be the police not twitter.
 

GHG

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Ah the classic trial by twitter case.

It's proven to be cheaper, less time consuming and more effective than involving the law.

It also gives the unemployed outrage mob the feeling of purpose in their lives, even if just for a moment.

What's not to love?
 
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NikuNashi

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The vast majority of the time even true accusations lead to absolutely zilch except to victims losing their jobs and careers, which is why it's mostly not reported, despite the few high-profile cases that you see that do. I personally know of a case where there were even pictures, but the person did nothing out of fear of retaliation, so it's good to see people coming forward. This person might not have evidence and if she doesn't, obviously nothing should be done, but if others with evidence see this they might be encouraged to come forward too.
It's good to see people throw accusations at people on twitter and post internal company emails in public? Like others have said, she should go to the police.
 

Rhysser

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Ah the classic trial by twitter case.

It's proven to be cheaper, less time consuming and more effective than involving the law.
Sad but true. If only the law was effective and companies hadn't insulated their top-ranked performers and top brass from consequences for doing things like this, I suspect people would choose to use the law instead. Until the law and policies around this improve, I guess there's only twitter as a recourse.
 

Rhysser

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Like others have said, she should go to the police.
Try it. The police is generally useless about most things and companies have done a stellar job of insulating people who do these things from consequences if they are top-performers or in the leadership team.

I don't think the guy should be judged if the accuser doesn't have evidence. But I do think it's fair to talk about her experience, regardless if she does since as I said, others with evidence might be encouraged to come forward.
 
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GHG

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Sad but true. If only the law was effective and companies hadn't insulated their top-ranked performers and top brass from consequences for doing things like this, I suspect people would choose to use the law instead. Until the law and policies around this improve, I guess there's only twitter as a recourse.
Yeh, if only we could use evidence based methods when deciding whether somebody should be persecuted for what they have been accused of.

Such classical methodologies have no place in today's advanced digital society.

 

Rhysser

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Yeh, if only we could use evidence based methods when deciding whether somebody should be persecuted for what they have been accused of.
I totally agree. Generally, in the vast majority of cases, even with evidence people who do this face no consequences and the evidence is sweeped under the rug and behind process. If only the evidence-based legal processes actually worked, people wouldn't have to rely on twitter.

Until we get to that state, I guess it's twitter or nothing.
 
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Fnord

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Try it. The police is generally useless about most things and companies have done a stellar job of insulating people who do these things from consequences if they are top-performers or in the leadership team.

I don't think the guy should be judged if the accuser doesn't have evidence. But I do think it's fair to talk about her experience, regardless if she does since as I said, others with evidence might be encouraged to come forward.
If this is the case, then a more prudent course of action would seem to be going to the police, then, if the police do nothing, blast the police publicly. This whole bypassing the legal system and going straight to social media thing will never have the proper impact, which would be getting law enforcement to take things seriously, And, since it is so easily abused, will likely end up having the opposite of the desired effect in the long term.
 

NikuNashi

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Try it. The police is generally useless about most things and companies have done a stellar job of insulating people who do these things from consequences if they are top-performers or in the leadership team.

I don't think the guy should be judged if the accuser doesn't have evidence. But I do think it's fair to talk about her experience, regardless if she does since as I said, others with evidence might be encouraged to come forward.
If she went to the police first, filed a report with evidence and nothing was done then she went to trial by twitter I could understand your point. But leaking a bunch of emails and then writing a war and peace story that focuses on how hard she had it coming up in the game industry that has less than 1 sentence with no details in it about the 'alleged' Rape, it doesn't convince me that someones whole career and character should be ruined. Call me old fashioned.
 

EviLore

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Try it. The police is generally useless about most things and companies have done a stellar job of insulating people who do these things from consequences if they are top-performers or in the leadership team.

I don't think the guy should be judged if the accuser doesn't have evidence. But I do think it's fair to talk about her experience, regardless if she does since as I said, others with evidence might be encouraged to come forward.
The police don’t take rape seriously? Based on what?
 

Rhysser

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If she went to the police first, filed a report with evidence and nothing was done then she went to trial by twitter I could understand your point. But leaking a bunch of emails and then writing a war and peace story that focuses on how hard she had it coming up in the game industry that has less than 1 sentence with no details in it about the 'alleged' Rape, it doesn't convince me that someones whole career and character should be ruined. Call me old fashioned.
When you are raped by someone who also controls your livelihood and sole source of income, and you both foresee it to prepare for a way to gather evidence, and are level-headed enough after the rape to think to collect additional evidence instead of dealing with teh trauma, and then decide to go to the police despite the fact that doing so will for sure mean you are unemployed and have no income even if they do charge the guy, let me know how that works out.

Until that time, I'm happy to see these people increasingly called out on twitter and other venues.
 

NikuNashi

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When you are raped by someone who also controls your livelihood and sole source of income, and you both foresee it to prepare for a way to gather evidence, and are level-headed enough after the rape to think to collect additional evidence instead of dealing with teh trauma, and then decide to go to the police despite the fact that doing so will for sure mean you are unemployed and have no income even if they do charge the guy, let me know how that works out.

Until that time, I'm happy to see these people increasingly called out on twitter and other venues.
I hope you don't get 'accused' of something and your whole career and lively hood taken from you without a shred of evidence, perhaps that's the only way you will see the fallacy in this 2019 trial by twitter justice system.
 

GHG

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I totally agree. Generally, in the vast majority of cases, even with evidence people who do this face no consequences and the evidence is sweeped under the rug and behind process. If only the evidence-based legal processes actually worked, people wouldn't have to rely on twitter.

Until we get to that state, I guess it's twitter or nothing.
I don't know about you, but if I'd been raped I'd rather opt for the course of action that could potentially lead to the criminal ending up in prison instead of going for the one that allows the individual to continue to be free and harm other people.

Yes the trial might not go your way but give yourself a chance for goodness sake. A defeatist attitude such as yours literally benefits nobody.
 
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Rhysser

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The police don’t take rape seriously? Based on what?
I'm sure they do, but being able to gather enough evidence within the right time window to trigger the police to act, and being willing to do so given that it will for sure lead to you being unemployed while simultaneously dealing with the trauma of the event is a pretty hard thing to actually accomplish. People often can't bear to come forward with this stuff until it is way too late for the police to do anything.

But maybe if you share your story after the fact and others with evidence come forward, it can work out.

The vast majority of the time these claims are both true and nothing is done. Despite this, I don't think people should be punished until accusations do have evidence surface.
 
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Rhysser

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I don't know about you, but if I'd been raped I'd rather opt for the course of action that could potentially lead to the criminal ending up in prison instead of going for the one that allows the individual to continue to be free and harm other people.
You say that having not been raped though. If your livelihood depended on you keeping your mouth shut though, I suspect you probably would. Or at least most people do.
 
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EviLore

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The vast majority of the time these claims are both true and nothing is done. Despite this, I don't think people should be punished until accusations do have evidence surface.
Produce evidence that the vast majority of social media #metoo deplatforming sexual assault claims are true and that nothing is done.

The accusation *is* the punishment.
 

ThePiddle

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Reading through the giant wall of text from the accuser is exhausting, their attitude is toxic. The rape is thrown around in a very bizarre manner, and is largely secondary to complaints about being overworked with not enough compensation.

The length is absurd, it's a freaking thesis paper, and even though the rape is the headliner, it is barely explained or mentioned throughout their post.

I gave up on finishing after reading one too many of their email replies, the accuser is clearly incapable of seeing how abrasive their emails are. I would quit a job if I had to work with somebody like this.

If they did get raped, that's obviously awful, but they are presenting their story in a bizarre manner, making it really hard to give a shit.
 

GHG

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You say that having not been raped though. If your livelihood depended on you keeping your mouth shut though, I suspect you probably would. Or at least most people do.
You don't know me. I couldn't give a fuck about my "livelihood" if somebody violated me like that.

If people don't want to hire me because I decided to do the right thing in a situation like that then they aren't worth working for anyway.

How fucking selfish do you need to be if your primary concern is your "livelihood" in a situation like this? What about your duty to your fellow human beings to try and prevent it from happening to somebody else?

By keeping your mouth shut or going to twitter instead of the police you are positively reinforcing the behaviour of those who discriminate against victims of rape.

The only way things will change is by people taking the appropriate and correct action more consistently.
 
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Rhysser

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Produce evidence that the vast majority of social media #metoo deplatforming sexual assault claims are true and that nothing is done.
I'm not an expert in this field but the commonly cited and simultaneously disputed (depending on your side) number on false rape allegations comes from this study by David Lisak. https://cdn.atixa.org/website-media/atixa.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/12193336/Lisak-False-Allegations-16-VAW-1318-2010.pdf

It's not specific to the #metoo movement, so not sure how specifically twitter affects this, but in general the % of false allegations is pretty low. Even if there is an increase in "cry wolf" type of allegations, I suspect most accusations are still true given the single digits rate of false allegations.

The accusation *is* the punishment.
The mob mentality around it is problematic, but I suspect it exists because proving rape is exceedingly difficult. I saw another study that cited that something like 10% or less of rape claims are provable with evidence (I forget the specifics but it was very low).

Given the low rate of false allegation, AND the low rate of being able to prove true allegations, I can understand why the mob does what it does, even if I don't agree with it.
 
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-Arcadia-

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Call me when they prove it, in an appropriate court of law.

We need to get away from ‘allegations’ meaning ‘He probably did it’. I think this is a mentality that almost predates the SJW movement, something that’s been coming home to roost for a while.

Likewise, we need to get away from the mindset that ‘She just wants attention’ or ‘regrets the sex’, when we hear about these things, which is equally damaging to rape victims.

In the end, all we can do is operate on proof. Allegations must be taken seriously, but by people with all the details, not the uninformed court of public opinion and their upvotes. That’s not for us to decide. If and when proof is provided, that’s when a judgement should be made. If proof cannot be provided, we can’t destroy someone’s life, because we feel like they did it.

In cases where the rapist did it, and there was no proof, that’s sad, but it remains the truth. This is how civilized justice works, and we cannot just revert back to literal Salem 1693 rules.
 
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Rhysser

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You don't know me. I couldn't give a fuck about my "livelihood" if somebody violated me like that.

If people don't want to hire me because I decided to do the right thing in a situation like that then they aren't worth working for anyway.

How fucking selfish do you need to be if your primary concern is your "livelihood" in a situation like this? What about your duty to your fellow human beings to try and prevent it from happening to somebody else?

By keeping your mouth shut or going to twitter instead of the police you are positively reinforcing the behaviour of those who discriminate against victims of rape.

The only way things will change is by people taking the appropriate and correct action more consistently.
I don't know you, which is why I added the last bit about what MOST people would do :)

It's not selfish to want to be able to have a roof over your head and food in your belly. Often times reporting rape in the work place is a luxury people can't afford, because eating food ends up being more important.
 
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EviLore

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I'm not an expert in this field but the commonly cited and simultaneously disputed (depending on your side) number on false rape allegations comes from this study by David Lisak. https://cdn.atixa.org/website-media/atixa.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/12193336/Lisak-False-Allegations-16-VAW-1318-2010.pdf

It's not specific to the #metoo movement, so not sure how specifically twitter affects this, but in general the % of false allegations is pretty low. Even if there is an increase in "cry wolf" type of allegations, I suspect most accusations are still true given the single digits rate of false allegations.
With this kind of social media deplatforming there is incentive for her if she holds a grudge, since publicity for her and damage to him is guaranteed, and there is no disincentive or consequence for lying.

If you understand human nature whatsoever you should understand the problem with witch hunts. Due process and burden of proof separate us from base savagery.
 

NikuNashi

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The mob mentality around it is problematic, but I suspect it exists because proving rape is exceedingly difficult.
But this phenomenon is not only with Rape, it is with anything the progressives get outraged about, twitter is used as a public shaming gallery.

Hey man I just wanted to say I have enjoyed hearing your opinions and enjoyed a good debate with someone with opposing views, that's what sets this forum apart from the other place, if the roles were reversed and I went on Era I would have been banned for these posts I have no doubt about it. Thanks man.
 

Pallas

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Innocent until proven guilty and all of that jazz.

Rape accusations can ruin anyone’s life, if he really did then fuck him but like with any crime, investigation needs to happen and if he’s found innocent, he should ideally be completely resolved, but these days people assumed the worse and automatically believe he did it. Hopefully Bethesda does nothing hasty and do their own investigation.

Don’t fucking buckle under peer pressure, Bethesda. This is a potentially innocent guy that’s going to get shredded.