AHA-Lambda
Member
Man, it took me a good second to unpack that thread title, I'm not even going to lie.
Same.
Man, it took me a good second to unpack that thread title, I'm not even going to lie.
That can be done while they are locked up. They supported a terrorist organisation. That deserves punishment.Instead of simply locking them up which would only make things worse why don't we engage with these people, find out the reasons why and how they decided to do what they did so we can learn to prevent otherwise from following their path?
Unless someone can persuade me otherwise I have very little sympathy for the "jihadi brides". Chuck them in prison and put their children in care and grant them all the counselling they need after the trauma their idiot parents put them through.
Instead of simply locking them up which would only make things worse why don't we engage with these people, find out the reasons why and how they decided to do what they did so we can learn to prevent otherwise from following their path?
Instead of simply locking them up which would only make things worse why don't we engage with these people, find out the reasons why and how they decided to do what they did so we can learn to prevent otherwise from following their path?
Which part was all rosy and alluring? The videos of journalists being beheaded? Where homosexuals were tossed from buildings? Where new and exciting ways of killing people like strapping explosives around peoples necks, locked in cages and submerged in water, people being driven over by tanks....which of those exciting videos said 'paradise' to these women?
No seriously, none of that was hidden, ISIS was producing and editing all these things in nice high quality production videos for all to see. They weren't hiding what they were; a hardline Islamic society that was calling for the death of all those who were non-Muslim or did not follow their interpretarion of Islam.
To expect to walk back into a society after having voluntarily joined a group that shouted the praises of killing, they deserve no sympathy.
If these women think that the acts are justified, that is even more reason to lock them up so the rest of society can be safe from people like that. You can learn from them while they are behind bars.
The radical change in behavior and ideals gives a similar vibe to the kind of brainwashing you'd see from cult recruits. Disappearing from your family and friends to run away with ISIS sounds a lot like the same kind of cutting off you'd see from, say, Scientologists.A US CIA agent fell in love with an ISIS fighter and threw everything away for him. She then came to her senses and fled back to the US.
There is some sort of strange, psychological thing going on with these ISIS brides. I don't know if it's fear of a doomsday event, or maybe the horrific torture and killings they recorded and televised or what. Some form of Neo-Stockholm Syndrome maybe?
Some of these women aren't even Muslim until they travel to Syria and become wedded.
It's one of the most bizarre things I've ever read up on. Psych Majors could write stuff about this for years and not fully understand it.
Investigate them and punish accordingly. Whatever is so fucking hard to understand about that.
It's literally the first word in the OP. They're British citizens.
Nobody here is saying they don't get a trial. They arrive, you charge them, you lock them up, you convict them and either throw them out of the country or lock them up some more.I'm not going to disagree with that. But only after a trial.
What are you on about?
Did they follow their husband or otherwise voluntarily go to and live in the Islamic Caliphate?
If they did then yeh, they are guilty of aiding and joining a terrorist organisation.
Which part of that is hard to understand? Joining / aiding / providing any support for a terrorist organisation is a crime. What do you think they were doing over there? Trying to convince members to change their ways?
More than 50 British women are estimated to have headed to Iraq and Syria in recent years. Some went out with their husbands and even children, but others travelled alone after being attracted by Isil social media recruiters portraying a jihadi bride's life as a heady mix of romance, adventure and piety.
Those returning face police questioning, but any decision to arrest people, charge them or keep them under surveillance is based on intelligence about what they did abroad, or any plotting they carried out before they left the UK.
Nobody here is saying they don't get a trial. They arrive, you charge them, you lock them up, you convict them and either throw them out of the country or lock them up some more.
Instead of simply locking them up which would only make things worse why don't we engage with these people, find out the reasons why and how they decided to do what they did so we can learn to prevent otherwise from following their path?
Aiding a terrorist organisation.No, people are assuming they have done something illegal. Charge them with what?
I'm not saying it was hidden. I'm saying that they were of the belief that these acts were justified.
Aiding a terrorist organisation.
Aiding a terrorist organisation.
No, people are assuming they have done something illegal. Charge them with what?
By traveling to Syria and helping them.Aiding how?
What exactly are you defending here? That we have a trial for them? I have already said that should be the case.So tell me if the scenario I laid out in my last post is impossible or not.
Agreed, like the ones that advocate for letting them back into society because we can learn from them or something.Some of the responses here are sheer stupidity.
So tell me if the scenario I laid out in my last post is impossible or not.
?
As was pointed out, if they believe such acts are morally justified, they are a very serious threat to society.
I'm willing to bet you could go to any prison and find any number of serial killers who will believe their actions were justified, doesnt exactly make them any less culpable.
They should be tried for their actions. No one is suggesting just throw them in jail, of course they will be out to trial, but they have shown through their actions of joining IS they are dangerous to society and should be detained immediately.
By traveling to Syria and helping them.
The article says they traveled to Syria to join ISIS. That is a terrorist organisation. At what point do you think we should charge them with that? If they actually killed someone? The act of joining alone can be reason enough for charging them and be put on trial.By making dinner? We are not to assume these wives are making arms / involved in fighting.
By making dinner? We are not to assume these wives are making arms / involved in fighting.
What exactly are you defending here? That we have a trial for them? I have already said that should be the case.
It just sounds like some people in this thread want to paint these women as just victims who have done nothing wrong. That is a very hard sell when it comes to an organisation like ISIS.
The article says they traveled to Syria to join ISIS. That is a terrorist organisation. At what point do you think we should charge them with that? If they actually killed someone? The act of joining alone can be reason enough for charging them and be put on trial.
Agreed, like the ones that advocate for letting them back into society because we can learn from them or something.
That can be figured out during the trial, but until that is finished they can be locked away from society for a bit and I'm not going to start feeling sorry for them.To the latter: I'm really not. I repeatedly said they should be charged if they've done something.
What I'm defending, is the possibility that a minority of these women may eventually be innocent. So yes, still investigate them.
But that after how many burka threads we had on GAF, talking about how some Muslim women are raised to always do what the man says, I appear to be the only one even considering that some of these may have been forced to go there with their husband and really didn't want to, but were too scared to stay.
You started out with the point that we should try to understand them and we are wrong for thinking they should be locked up. If you want to try and understand them while they are behind bars, I'm all for it.Did I say to let them "back into society" or are you just blatantly misrepresenting my stance? Get a grip.
By making dinner? We are not to assume these wives are making arms / involved in fighting.
A person was guilty of high treason under the Act if they: [...] adhered to the King's enemies in his Realm, giving them aid and comfort in his Realm or elsewhere
From the Article:
You really can't see the scenario of a husband convincing/forcing her wife to travel there with him? Because I can. You can convict people for doing illegal things, not for being stupid or being forced to do something..
That can be figured out during the trial, but until that is finished they can be locked away from society for a bit and I'm not going to start feeling sorry for them.
Seriously? Where are you coming up with this shit?
This is not a case of false imprisonment. Knowing your partner commited or plans to commit a crime and doing not reporting it or actively supporting their actions; guess what, thats a crime.
Ignorance is not a defense. They knew what they were doing. They knew what was happening. Their options were to report their partners or join them. They chose the latter.
The defense of theae women seems to be;
They didnt commit a crime - actually yeh, they did
They didnt know any better / their husband coerced them - not knowing something is a crime doesnt mean you have not in fact, committed a crime and unless you had no means of preventing another person involving you in a crime or prevented you from participating (gonna be a hard as shit argument to say you had no reasonable means of escape throughout the duration of travelling between England and Syria) then yeh, you have also committed a crime.
The article says they traveled to Syria to join ISIS. That is a terrorist organisation. At what point do you think we should charge them with that? If they actually killed someone? The act of joining alone can be reason enough for charging them and be put on trial.
And how can you be sure of this?
just curious.
People can be so dumb. It's better to be accepting though when people want to be accepted back as rejecting only creates more enemies/misguided people. Best way to defeat radicalism is to accept people into society as a whole.
It's the first sentence though: "British jihadi brides are returning home after being widowed, or being sent away by husbands preparing to make a final stand with the Islamic State group."The article does not say they are members of ISIS.
It's the first sentence though: "British jihadi brides are returning home after being widowed, or being sent away by husbands preparing to make a final stand with the Islamic State group."
I can't read that any other way then them being a part of ISIS.
Well then you clearly can't read.
You are seriously telling me that "jihadi brides" that went with their husbands to Syria are not a member of ISIS?Well then you clearly can't read.
You started out with the point that we should try to understand them and we are wrong for thinking they should be locked up. If you want to try and understand them while they are behind bars, I'm all for it.
Well then you clearly can't read.
Need to separate the kids and either put them with relatives with none or little visitation rights for the mothers whilst they get investigated, monitored and/or locked up until a time where the authorities deem them no threat to their kids and society.
Secondly need to get the mothers into mandated therapy and counselling and also questioning so they get the evil shit that drove them to join the fuckers in the first place out of their system.
If they refuse to cooperate then they need to be deported and citizenship revoked.
Isis is such an evil group that anyone that had any extended contact with them and was knee deep in working with them is a grave threat to society and their own family.
Child endangerment? Negligence? I dunno what kind of laws are in the UK.There is the little matter of if they did anything illegal. Being married to a criminal does not make you a criminal. Horrible judgement? Sure.
Just the brides or their children too?They all deserve death over the age of 16, yet here you going on about counseling and therapy and maternal custodial rights