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Jimquisition - Steam Needs Quality Control

The market is the quality control, Jim. I don't think your average gamer is getting sucked into "day one" style crapfests with any sort of regularity. Like previously mentioned, there are reviews at your disposal. A little common sense and buyer beware is all that's needed.

When there are too many choices, there's simply not enough time in the day to research each game - and even ersatz shortcuts like Metacritic ratings often aren't available for smaller games that don't get sufficient reviews from the web aristocracy.
 

Cizard

Member
Valve's lack of quality control is somewhat problematic but not really for these reasons. Though a over-saturated market isn't a good thing either.

But what Valve seems to forget is that if someone puts a broken product on steam that becomes their problem. The transaction is between valve and the buyer and not the company putting the game up on steam. It's up to valve to make sure that product is working as intended or give a refund.

But it's hard to define with broken means with a digital product like games. The games Jim mentioned in his video clearly launched. They were playable. Is a game only broken if it doesn't outright crash at launch or is missing advertised features? And what about early access games? is it okay if a game doesn't really work as long as you say it might not? I'm not sure if it works like that. It's quite a bit more complicated than that.
 
The point he made around the 3m10s mark was the clincher in this (otherwise it's a popular platform attracting shit as popular platforms are wont to do); the fact that publishers can lock down information on their pages and edit at will without notation and transperancy is crucial to both Steam customers and Steam itself going forward given that growth.
 

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
I just opened Steam. The VERY FIRST TITLE I saw under "featured PC games" (Arcane Worlds) is an Early Access title.

You just ignored what I said. That title is manually featured by Valve. That's what people were asking for; quality control, manual curation. The uncurated portion of the site, the New Releases feed, does not include Early Access games.
 
You just ignored what I said. That title is manually featured by Valve. That's what people were asking for; quality control, manual curation. The uncurated portion of the site, the New Releases feed, does not include Early Access games.

Not just manual QC, but intelligent manual QC (Valve has never properly dedicated people to the job) and a stronger partition between released games and early access games. While early access has resulted in a lot of purchases for certain games, the end result of how satisfied the customers are in the long term is unclear, with plenty of dissatisfied users (either they don't get the concept, they get it but have expectations that are too high, or the games fail to deliver in some way beyond the normal bugs and missing content).

IMHO, promoting early access games in the same channels as full games to the entire steam userbase (many of whom aren't engaged/knowledgeable enough to make an informed decision on them) is a massive mistake.
 

Baleoce

Member
Even if it probably is an anomaly, I'd consider a fake version of a game slipping by the net of Valve, and directly onto the marketplace, claiming to be by the original developer, as somewhat disconcerting.
 

Slavik81

Member
I don't see why Steam should strive to become a publisher of all games, no matter how awful. Any titles Valve forgoes listing can still be distributed fairly easily on PC. Minecraft sold millions of units just off the developer's website.

I'd like to see Valve stand behind the products they are selling.
 
Even if it probably is an anomaly, I'd consider a fake version of a game slipping by the net of Valve, and directly onto the marketplace, claiming to be by the original developer, as somewhat disconcerting.
It appears that it was Strategy First being scumbags again.

I don't see why Steam should strive to become a publisher of all games, no matter how awful. Any titles Valve forgoes listing can still be distributed fairly easily on PC. Minecraft sold millions of units just off the developer's website.

I'd like to see Valve stand behind the products they are selling.
Problem: Steam dominates PC game sales. For most games, a good 80 to 90% of PC sales is via Steam. Hence, devs want on Steam, hence Valve making it easier to get on Steam.
 

Brashnir

Member
You just ignored what I said. That title is manually featured by Valve. That's what people were asking for; quality control, manual curation. The uncurated portion of the site, the New Releases feed, does not include Early Access games.

Maybe, but that still doesn't really address the problem. As long as "featured titles" are unfinished junk, the storefront is useless to me.
 
It appears that it was Strategy First being scumbags again.


Problem: Steam dominates PC game sales. For most games, a good 80 to 90% of PC sales is via Steam. Hence, devs want on Steam, hence Valve making it easier to get on Steam.

If you're truly in favor of letting the market decide what games to support, then why not let the market decide what platforms to support as well? Why does the logic apply to one and not the other, when the problem of visibility applies just as much to individual games as it does to game platforms?
 

Slavik81

Member
Problem: Steam dominates PC game sales. For most games, a good 80 to 90% of PC sales is via Steam. Hence, devs want on Steam, hence Valve making it easier to get on Steam.
I don't think that the sales benefits of Steam are something we need to extend to shovelware. Further, I'd expect that as average quality declines, the sales benefit from being on Steam would also decline.
 

Lotto

Member
it's a weird thing. i personally remember when valve took a far more curatorial stance in what made it through to steam and it led to many unpleasant limitations on what was available to buy, including some pretty savage shut-outs of perfectly good games.

the floodgates are seemingly open, but i'm a big boy now and i'm pretty okay with being the master of my own mispurchase destiny. i can see the issue of having shitgame: repocalypse's name broadcasted without prejudice to millions of cud chewing punters, but i think the key here is transparency and availability of criticism.

it's not talked about much, but i'm finding the steam review system pretty fantastic. you often get a wide spread of surprisingly eloquent and on-point critique right there on the store page - it only takes one scroll of the mouse wheel for any prospective buyer to discover that rekoil is a game nobody should buy in its present state.

such is steam's monopoly, for valve to start a process of stamping every title with their official seal of approval would be akin to censorship of the platform. it shouldn't be for valve to make the road any less dark and full of terrors, just continue implementing tools to help us navigate it.

I think Valve would agree with you. Their philosophy-as far as I know-for the future is basically create the tools to help consumers make decisions. They're doing it with their client, they're doing it for their own software and other developers, hell they're even attempting to do so with their hardware. I think their approach/attempt to do so is pretty fantastic.
 

Brashnir

Member
I think Valve would agree with you. Their philosophy-as far as I know-for the future is basically create the tools to help consumers make decisions. They're doing it with their client, they're doing it for their own software and other developers, hell they're even attempting to do so with their hardware. I think their approach/attempt to do so is pretty fantastic.

Their approach is driving customers like me to think their entire storefront is worthless.
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
I don't think that the sales benefits of Steam are something we need to extend to shovelware. Further, I'd expect that as average quality declines, the sales benefit from being on Steam would also decline.
This is why having control in one place is bad. Steam is PC gaming now so there isnt much of an option. Most of the other digital platforms have slowed their own service and instead sell Steam keys. If you are allied with EA you could use Origin. Gog? Retail? Theres not really a lot of alternatives to Steam now.

edit: Oh someone could always just make the next Minecraft.
 

Shambles

Member
People are complaining about having choice? What a backwards world. Where's this imaginary customer that is forced to blind buy products? People buy games because they hear good things about them not because a page with a link pops up. Are we going to start saying that Google is responsible for everything that shows up in AdWords?
 

Interfectum

Member
Maybe, but that still doesn't really address the problem. As long as "featured titles" are unfinished junk, the storefront is useless to me.

Their approach is driving customers like me to think their entire storefront is worthless.

Agreed and their daily deals are almost always crap. A few months ago I even stopped Steam from booting with Windows. I just don't open it much anymore.

Better consumers might demand that stores not be cluttered with junk.

I'm drowning in hyperbole.
 

Interfectum

Member
Where did I exaggerate?

I think what you are really saying is that my opinion would be taken more seriously if I agreed with you.

You agree that their storefront is worthless and the deals are always crap?

First glance at the store:
Call of Duty Ghosts
Arma 3
The Walking Dead Season 2
South Park
Neverwinter
XCOM Enemy Within
Terraria
PayDay 2
The Stanley Parable
The Banner Saga
Assassin's Creed 4
Loadout
Tomb Raider

Recent deals included:
Guacamelee
The Splinter Cell series
Kingdoms of Amalur

Oh my god it's so littered with garbage how could you ever find anything?
 
You agree that their storefront is worthless and the deals are always crap?

First glance at the store:
Call of Duty Ghosts
Arma 3
The Walking Dead Season 2
South Park
Neverwinter
XCOM Enemy Within
Terraria
PayDay 2
The Stanley Parable
The Banner Saga
Assassin's Creed 4
Loadout
Tomb Raider

Recent deals included:
Guacamelee
The Splinter Cell series
Kingdoms of Amalur

Oh my god it's so littered with garbage how could you ever find anything?

I said ALMOST always crap. Funny that you left that out. Whatever though, opinions will vary and the only difference is that I am not referring to yours as hyperbole.
 

Brashnir

Member
I'm drowning in hyperbole.

It's not hyperbole. The storefront (aside from the little search box in the top corner) is entirely useless to me now.

There was a time when I would regularly pull up the Steam storefront to look around and see if anything piqued my interest. Ever since the deluge of unfinished nonsense started filling up the page, I stopped bothering to look entirely because it started wasting too much of my time for too little benefit.

The point of a storefront is to attract customers to browse. It has become, to me, a disincentive to browse.
 

Interfectum

Member
It's not hyperbole. The storefront (aside from the little search box in the top corner) is entirely useless to me now.

There was a time when I would regularly pull up the Steam storefront to look around and see if anything piqued my interest. Ever since the deluge of unfinished nonsense started filling up the page, I stopped bothering to look entirely because it started wasting too much of my time for too little benefit.

The point of a storefront is to attract customers to browse. It has become, to me, a disincentive to browse.

Are you referring to the new release list maybe? Because the only "unfinished nonsense" I see featured is Rust, DayZ, Starbound and maybe one or two more. The rest of the ~35 featured games seem to be finished and of varying positive quality. Just doesn't seem as bad as you say.

I do agree that perhaps a filtering device for people not interested in seeing Early Access games might be ideal, but I don't really see that much "garbage" on the front page.
 
It's not hyperbole. The storefront (aside from the little search box in the top corner) is entirely useless to me now.

There was a time when I would regularly pull up the Steam storefront to look around and see if anything piqued my interest. Ever since the deluge of unfinished nonsense started filling up the page, I stopped bothering to look entirely because it started wasting too much of my time for too little benefit.

The point of a storefront is to attract customers to browse. It has become, to me, a disincentive to browse.

Unfinished games and games that I can't actually play yet, but can still pay for are a turn off for me. Can you imagine going to Wal Mart and picking up a TV that they featured in their paper ad and finding out at the register that you can pay for it now but you can't use it until next month.
 

Coconut

Banned
Better consumers might demand that stores not be cluttered with junk.

I like the really good stuff on the same level as the bad. Please serve up Alien Rage on store front as Risk of Rain, Eldritch, and Kerbal Space Program.

Put a frame around that sentence. Seriously, it's so tiring seeing people always blaming everything but themselves.

It boggles my mind we live in a time where we can be the most informed quick plays long plays and reviews run rampant on the Internet and if you can't figure out that you want or don't to play something from all that information well those people are completely hopeless.
 

Mudcrab

Member
It's not hyperbole. The storefront (aside from the little search box in the top corner) is entirely useless to me now.

There was a time when I would regularly pull up the Steam storefront to look around and see if anything piqued my interest. Ever since the deluge of unfinished nonsense started filling up the page, I stopped bothering to look entirely because it started wasting too much of my time for too little benefit.

The point of a storefront is to attract customers to browse. It has become, to me, a disincentive to browse.

Any examples of "unfinished nonsense" on the storefront?
 
It boggles my mind we live in a time where we can be the most informed quick plays long plays and reviews run rampant on the Internet and if you can't figure out that you want or don't to play something from all that information well those people are completely hopeless.

South Park: The Stick of Truth is a featured, $60 game on Steam. Maybe you could point out some long plays or reviews?
 

Mudcrab

Member
I wouldn't know, I don't buy Early Access games. That's why I don't want them on my store front.

I do buy Early Access games so I know they're not nonsense, that's why I want them on my storefront.

Lot's of people do, that's why Rust, DayZ and Starbound are high up on the current player list.
 
I do buy Early Access games so I know they're not nonsense, that's why I want them on my storefront.

Lot's of people do, that's why Rust, DayZ and Starbound are high up on the current player list.

Sure, and that's great for the people who buy them. I just think some options to customize the store front would be nice.
 

Interfectum

Member
Seems to me judging from the multiple, simultaneous problems with people have with the store front Valve needs to hurry it up with the personalized Steam store idea.
 

Steam Refund Policy

As with most software products, we do not offer refunds or exchanges on games,
DLC or in-game items purchased on our website or through the Steam Client. Please review Section 3 of the Steam Subscriber Agreement for more information.
Steam Subscriber Agreement

Steam Subscriber Agreement

An exception is made for games purchased during a pre-order period if the request is received prior to the games' release date.

Not much of a return policy.
 

Mononoke

Banned
No it doesn't, people need to be better consumers.

Valve shouldn't be forced to do anything. But for any business that is running their own platform, it benefits them to give the best experience they can to the consumer. Are you really saying it's a BAD thing, if Valve steps up quality control?

Wat.

I just don't get this attitude.
 

Coconut

Banned
South Park: The Stick of Truth is a featured, $60 game on Steam. Maybe you could point out some long plays or reviews?

Here's an eight minute video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAbMBx9bZic

But if you are so worried about the game being good or bad don't impulse buy it and wait till you have more info. No one is forcing anyone to buy it day one. Be a good consumer, be informed and if that info is there right now, FUCKING WAIT till it's there.
 
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