guys I've found the perfect gif for contemporary star wars threads on gaf
What kind of overpowered bullshit makes someone roll infinitely upon a half swing?
Who taught her that?
So fucking unearned
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JJ Abrams to direct Star Wars Episode IX, Chris Terrio co-writing, now due Dec 2019
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What kind of overpowered bullshit makes someone roll infinitely upon a half swing?
Who taught her that?
So fucking unearned
QuantumZebra
Member
me in any star wars thread
Pretty much
Every SW thread is guaranteed to devolve into:
1. Prequels were not dogshit, but underrated classics.
2. The Force Awakens was a shit film because uninformed reasons.
3. The OT isn't as good as people remember and Star Wars sucks anyway.
Additonally, credit to Sephzilla:
4. Rey is a Mary Sue because person making claim forgot how Luke and Anakin went and also forgot how The Force works
guys I've found the perfect gif for contemporary star wars threads on gaf
lol
DiipuSurotu
Banned
They need a time skip between TLJ and IX if Leia is to die off-screen.
4. Rey is a Mary Sue because person making claim forgot how Luke and Anakin went and also forgot how The Force works
QuantumZebra
Member
Oops forgot that one, editing it in
fucking thank you
id rather have had a potato directing
We need to see TLJ before we start making claims of how they need to handle Leia.
WhiteRabbitEXE
Member
Such a safe and compliant vegetable.
I like that a potato is safe. I know going into a potato that I'm gonna get a potato, no matter how it is prepared. Fry that shit up. Bake it. Slice it into chips. Give me crinkle cut, waffle, wedges. Mash it. Slather it in cheese, au gratin-style. Feeling secure that I will get a tasty food item when presented with a potato is comforting.
Doctoglethorpe
Member
guys I've found the perfect gif for contemporary star wars threads on gaf
Witchers > Jedi, confirmed.
Obviously this isn't applicable to every person who doesn't like TFA, but by and large the complaints I've seen with TFA who were fans of the OT are some of the same reasons why I wasn't a fan of Star Wars before TFA. Lemme explain. I wasn't a fan of Star Wars until 2015. Rey turned me into a fan of Star Wars, and by proxy, so did The Force Awakens. I feel like I finally got Star Wars. I understood it now. So when I went to watch the OT again, I enjoyed it more.
I've said previously in this thread that most of the criticisms here leveled at TFA can be attributed to the OT. An experienced Force user with decades of training and combat beat by a relative newcomer due to conflicted feelings he had during the fight? We got that in RotJ. Plot points in the movie that don't make much sense when you get down to it? We got that in ESB. A newcomer who learns about the Force in the movie and later on does some spectacular things with it? We got that in ANH.
The behavior I'm seeing with a lot of criticisms leveled at TFA strike me as those that only make sense under the context that it isn't the OT. That's it. (Well, that, or, it's because Rey has a vag.)
I've said previously in this thread that most of the criticisms here leveled at TFA can be attributed to the OT. An experienced Force user with decades of training and combat beat by a relative newcomer due to conflicted feelings he had during the fight? We got that in RotJ. Plot points in the movie that don't make much sense when you get down to it? We got that in ESB. A newcomer who learns about the Force in the movie and later on does some spectacular things with it? We got that in ANH.
The behavior I'm seeing with a lot of criticisms leveled at TFA strike me as those that only make sense under the context that it isn't the OT. That's it. (Well, that, or, it's because Rey has a vag.)
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Why is the Mary Sue deflection always, "but Luke and Anakin tho!"
No shit, they were both too perfect and poorly fleshed out characters in their films. Luke and Anakin are Gary Stu incarnate. Anakin is literally Space Jesus, and Luke is the even more powerful son of Space Jesus.
Luke gets away with it because "holy shit, did you see those crazy 'light sabers'?!' and the novelty of Star Wars at the time. Anakin definitely didn't get a pass. Anyone who tries to tell you that Anakin didn't catch shit for being Mr. Perfect then immediately evil, with the depth of cardboard, is lying to you.
However, I will say that the intensity and fervor at which the Mary Sue critique came this time around was way higher, probably in part due to GG/alt-right types, who signal boosted it.
No shit, they were both too perfect and poorly fleshed out characters in their films. Luke and Anakin are Gary Stu incarnate. Anakin is literally Space Jesus, and Luke is the even more powerful son of Space Jesus.
Luke gets away with it because "holy shit, did you see those crazy 'light sabers'?!' and the novelty of Star Wars at the time. Anakin definitely didn't get a pass. Anyone who tries to tell you that Anakin didn't catch shit for being Mr. Perfect then immediately evil, with the depth of cardboard, is lying to you.
However, I will say that the intensity and fervor at which the Mary Sue critique came this time around was way higher, probably in part due to GG/alt-right types, who signal boosted it.
Tomasoares
Member
Anakin is justified because of midhchlorians!1!!
It's a good deflection because it's the status quo for the series. Anakin doesn't get a pass for it, but he certainly didn't see nearly as much hate for it as Rey gets. It sure as hell isn't because her acting versus his.
Robdraggoo
Member
The Silver
Member
I saw adult Anakin as a shitheel on the verge of becoming Kylo Ren if Padme had friend zoned him.
Clone wars Anakin is good people though.
Clone wars Anakin is good people though.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Well yeah it was long ago. Today's world is more nitpicky. Nitpicking oldies isn't fun.
And the critique against Anakin certainly wasn't gendered. Most people didn't even have the term "Mary Sue" in their vernacular until it was lazily applied to Rey by some guy.
I think you answered your own question here!
It was a decade.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Yea I addressed that. SW has been "Boy/Girl wonder saves the day with unnatural potential!" since day one, and that has been a (much smaller) critique in the past. The alt-right/GG people boosted it.
People dogpile Max Landis, but if you go to his youtube channel, a vast majority of his content is just rants into a camera with very low views on a wide range of topics/intellectual properties. It's not like he was like, "man I sure do hate how everyone loves Rey, lemme take her down a notch!" Besides screenwriting, ranting is basically the only thing he does with his time. It just happened to be picked up by agenda driven people this time around.
That said, I hope the SW flaw of the perfect protagonist is shaken up a bit in TLJ. Either by making Luke less of a boyscout in old age, or showing more character flaws in Rey. These are things I trust Rian with.
Haha, wasn't much of a question, because i totally understand the situation. I just wish people could talk about the merit of the argument, even while acknowledging that it didn't arise out of good faith.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
For the prequels, sure. They just had more bad than mary sue. People shouls be lucky that tinges of that writibg is what people criticize the movie for.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
I think the term came back hard (at least that I know of) when Sword Art Online got huge, and a very popular anime reviewer, Gigguk, ripped it to pieces by invoking the term Gary Stu.
Since then, the term had been back in popular forum use.
Inferno313
Banned
What is the actual fucking argument here. The nature of good storytelling doesn't really change.
Of all the criticism of the PT, I don't remember a SINGLE CRITICISM that boiled down to "Anakin is a Gary Stu". Sure, people criticized dumb things happening, like him getting into a ship and accidentally blowing shit up, but that wasn't based around the general criticism of "his entire being is overpowered. None of his successes are earned because his force powers are too great"
Only time I ever remember hearing about the Mary Sue type shit was when TFA was released.
And also, the general acceptance that we should "just go with it, it's SW, the force makes you powerful" IS a defense, when you apply this viewpoint to Anakin and Luke too. You're saying "so fucking what, it's the force, it lets ALL of these people do incredible things".
That's not to say we cannot be critical of things that may have been TOO good, but if you apply that criticism to one hero it must be examined with the other two.
And lots of people have a death star sized double standard for Luke.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
I'm trying to think where in EP1 and ANH did Luke or Anakin display major jedi arts.
Luke was running away from shit half the time.
It wasn't until the second movies did either protagonist demonstrate jedi arts.
For Rey it was 1hr and 30 mins in. It wasn't related to anything she knew how to do, like for anakin channeling the force into flying pods. But straight up jedi arts.
Rey certainly autolvld pretty hard.
Her jedi powers on display didn't really feel earned at 1h 30m. But they are changing how the force works so #dealwithit I suppose.
Luke was running away from shit half the time.
It wasn't until the second movies did either protagonist demonstrate jedi arts.
For Rey it was 1hr and 30 mins in. It wasn't related to anything she knew how to do, like for anakin channeling the force into flying pods. But straight up jedi arts.
Rey certainly autolvld pretty hard.
Her jedi powers on display didn't really feel earned at 1h 30m. But they are changing how the force works so #dealwithit I suppose.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
We made it about a page discussing Episode 9, I guess!
Fits & starts.
ANYWAY
Fits & starts.
ANYWAY
Subpar Spatula
Banned
I believe in the prequel we were conditioned to ubderstand that Anakin was OP with the force so all his achievements were plausible for him because of his high count and being the prophesized one. However, the awfulness of the flicks most likely drowned out any character criticisms. Heck, we rarely hear anyone speak ill about any characters besides Sheev, Jar Jar, or Obi. I think it's fair that it's just a lot of bs and everything drowned it.
Did the 'Rey as Mary Sue' shit really start from Max Landis? I'm not sure I knew that.
Man that guy really is the fucking worst
How about when Luke blew up the Death Star with the Force?
Man that guy really is the fucking worst
How about when Luke blew up the Death Star with the Force?
Right. Back when I read Star Wars threads before TFA, so back when I wasn't a Star Wars fan, none of the most oft-cited criticisms I saw leveled at the prequels was that Anakin was too perfect. It wasn't even a part of RLM's famously quipped breakdown. It just wasn't there.
QuantumZebra
Member
Herr Schwarz
Banned
That wasn't a jedi art right? That was just concentrating on an ability he already knew and had to pull of an unlikely shot by listening to old man ben.
He channeled the force sure to augment the skills as a pilot he already had.
Like anakin and his pods.
It's not a force persuade.
Tomasoares
Member
Rey already knew how to fight before she grabbed a lightsaber.
Yup, that's when it really got some traction. It's annoying that such a cool character has so much annoying internet bullshit around it and a good bit is because of him.
The Silver
Member
Yeah with Anakin, more than Luke and Rey, you already had the context that he was some overpowered chosen one from the very start. The prophecy, the knowledge he becomes Vader, virgin birth, his midi power level, it doesn't come into question why he can do the extraordinary things he can, he's Vader Christ.
Inferno313
Banned
He used the force to guide the proton torpedo into the exhaust port. Like that's literally what happens. Obi-Wan says "Use the Force" and then he uses the force.
Hell it's not even limited to this argument.
You have people criticising fucking Wonder Woman for being a mary-sue while literally ignoring the entire superhero archetype
We made it about a page discussing Episode 9, I guess!
Fits & starts.
ANYWAY
Here's a good thread on your fav moment too that also touches on this.
QuantumZebra
Member
Don't go into the thread where Max Landis obsessively wrote a multipage website breaking down Carly Rae Jepsen's discography.
Yes that happened. Yes I regret opening it.
Inferno313
Banned
Your avatar is how I feel right now
Ristifer
Member
Please.
What do you think is happening in that scene? The whole point is that the target computers are unreliable guides in getting the torpedoes into the exhaust port, so Luke has to literally *use the Force* to get the shot in.
SuperBanana
Banned
We made it about a page discussing Episode 9, I guess!
Fits & starts.
ANYWAY
Err, you can use the same characters without making scene for scene recreations from another movie. Also, Leia wasn't a main character of A New Hope now??
Herr Schwarz
Banned
He trusted in his instincts to land the shot.
He wasn't performing some trickery on the projectile itself he took control of the targeting systems and aimed it himself
It was a good shot.
Anakin wasn't using the force to steer his podracer either. He was steering it, the force was helping him anticipate turns and such. He wasn't force moving the actual vehicle.
The pod scene is also Anakin using his natural ability with the force to guide him through a race that even highly trained pilots can't completely navigate.
This is a force power. Says so right in the force section of the Player's Handbook
Leia is a main character, but she's not the lead and doesn't drive the story. She's the goal for the two lead heroes (for the first two acts anyway) and then sits on the sidelines while those same two heroes win the day.
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