Hurricane_Chris
DDK
GAF technical experts to the rescue! Carmack needs to hire some of you guys to help him out!
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John Carmack on the 360/ PS3 development
- Thread starter Twix
- Start date
Kittonwy said:I have a PS3, that's what I'm spending most of my gaming time playing, it has already become my main platform, so what exactly is Carmack implying about Id's PS3 titles and should I even bother purchasing them?
But didn't you always prefer the Sony brand, regardless of the quality compared to the competitors
Kittonwy said:I have a PS3, that's what I'm spending most of my gaming time playing, it has already become my main platform, so what exactly is Carmack implying about Id's PS3 titles and should I even bother purchasing them?
If that's what you took out of that interview, you need help.
Doom_Bringer
Banned
man when will id reveal their new game? I hope it tops Crysis but then again it is multiplatform 
The Innocent X
Banned
pr0cs said:
I used to dream of 41FPS in quake, as I chugged along between 17 and 25.
Beer Monkey
Member
Kittonwy said:
If you read between the lines, he is telling you, Kittowny, that multiplatform gamers get the best of everything, even though single-platform gamers will try the hardest to tell everybody that they are happier.
Beer Monkey
Member
Mojovonio said:
I used to bop along at 50+fps with my 3DFX Voodoo card and some tweaking.
This to me is one of the most telling parts of the interview. MS has made the dev tools so easy to use that devs are targeting the 360 first, then basically porting over to the PS3. From a practical and financial point of view, this approach probably makes the most sense for multi-platform games. As long as devs take this approach though, it will continue to negate any hardware advantages the PS3 may have.
While we all know that Carmack isn't lazy, he certainly does sound a little whiny, lol. Embrace the cores John, stop living in the 90s! And Sony, for chrissake, put in some graphs to help these guys out!
MightyHedgehog
Member
Seriously, this is the most important post in this thread.Sho Nuff said:This Carmack fellow is clearly rubbish, just look at how crappy his game looks:
Hurricane_Chris
DDK
Arsenal said:
?
...
:-(
Pristine_Condition
Member
travisbickle said:
"Incentivize" is in the Cambridge dictionary now. Not that that means anything.
Are you British? Because, if so, I've got a bone to pick with your corporate culture for inventing the word "aspirational." It seems like very damn time I've sat down with a bunch of advertising guys over the last few years, I have to hear that one.
I had to look it up once. I thought, "No way that's a real word."
Sony being a Japanese company has a lot to do with the support issue. It's not like MS where engineers there all speak English and Western developer can just ask them directly to get answers. In the case of Sony (and Nintendo) you kind of have to go by 2nd hand info a lot of time from their English speaking engineers. They have been improving the process. It can still be a lot better, but IMO, it's not as big of a problem as people trying to make it out to be.Zweisy1 said:
speculawyer
Member
Doom wizard John Carmack said:
Jeez . . . You can't turn around without someone bashing Sony. But I think they deserve a lot of the bashing.
If you are going to use such a radical CPU architecture, you better create a really good set of developer tools to go along with it. It looks like they didn't do so well. Of course, this is an area where Microsoft really has far FAR more experience.
However, Carmack said that he will do a simultaneous release . . . and I'm sure he will. But the problem is that even though the PS3 version has the capability to be better than the xbox 360 version, it will end up looking the same since there will be no extra effort to use that additional power.
speculawyer
Member
Wii said:Don't like multicore? Go make a Wii game you wuss!
The xbox 360 that he likes is multi-core.
speculawyer
Member
travisbickle said:
It has a certain amount of truthiness to it. Bush, the decider, has decidered we are all allowed to coinage our own wordies and spreadeth them on the internets.
pr0cs said:
He working on (I guess among other things, like engine development and contributions to gpu development at nvidia) this: http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/
speculawyer
Member
theBishop said:
Whew . . . I thought my programming skills were getting REALLY outdated. I was thinking WTF are these 'erase conditions!'.
I almost went to grad school in 1987 in order to study & work on parallel programming issues. It is kinda funny that it is literally 20 years later and they are STILL struggling with parallel programming issues.
speculawyer
Member
pr0cs said:
When you have as much money has he has, it is amazing he still works so hard.
Ynos Yrros
Banned
Short version:
What do you think about PS3\360 development?
XBox 360 is easy do work on, we got great tools, yadda yadda yadda...
Yeah, but what about PS3?
Oh, it sucks, XBox 360 is easy to work on, we got great tools, yadda yadda yadda...
What do you think about PS3\360 development?
XBox 360 is easy do work on, we got great tools, yadda yadda yadda...
Yeah, but what about PS3?
Oh, it sucks, XBox 360 is easy to work on, we got great tools, yadda yadda yadda...
Maybe he should get on Sonys world wide studios for some help because other programmers are getting awesome results. Carmack is not the God he once was and he has to stop making excuses. [Now Gaf the man can program his ass off but only for things that fit his mole]. Maybe team Crysis can give some multicore pointers? Take them off the ppu to the spu Carmack.
speculawyer
Member
DenogginizerOS said:
Unfortunately for Sony, it is the curse. With most games being multi-platform, they'll develop for the least common denominator between the PS3 & xbox 360.
If Sony was first out of the gate and it looked like the PS3 was going to be as successful as the PS2, then people would work hard to create the best PS3 games. But since the xbox 360 has the bigger market-share, the development will be focused more on the xbox 360 than the PS3. And on top of that, you can throw in the development tools advantage of the xbox 360.
I hope Sony can improve their development tool situation. They should really buy any good tools that Insomniac created while developing Resistance and give them to all the PS3 dev kit holders.
Sony had better make their first & second party titles good . . . because ERTS, ATVI, & TTWO are not going to lift a finger to make the PS3 versions of their multi-platform titles any better than the xbox 360 versions.
Sorry for monopolizing the thread, I just find this topic very interesting.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Ynos Yrros said:
Yep that's exactly it you got it.
speculawyer
Member
Tk0n said:you read quite alot into what carmack said
It is my opinion/guess. What business incentive is there to spend time making the PS3 version look any better than the xbox 360 version?
speculawyer
Member
Agent Icebeezy said:
I don't think that is a good interpretation. MS created a (mostly) unified PC & xbox 360 development environment. So the PC & xbox 360 dev environments are the same. (Actually . . . maybe the reason why he likes the xbox 360 dev environment is because it is like the PC dev environment that he is more accustomed to.)
speculawyer said:
I agree, but when other teams start putting out amazing things exclusively for the PS3, I'm sure the tide will shift just a little bit.
I like Carmack, he's done a TON for the PC industry. Microsoft is courting top players from the PC sphere, and very effectively at that. Xbox 1 got a ton of PC devs excited from the get go as well.
In any case, I'm excited to see what he's working on, but I'll probably play it on a PC anyway.
tissot said:But didn't you always prefer the Sony brand, regardless of the quality compared to the competitors
I prefer the best quality software on the system I play the most, what's the problem there? You mean you would buy stuff from Id on your console of choice even if it's badly made? This has more to do with whether or not Carmack and Id are going to pump out something good on the PS3, and depending on that I will decide whether I would buy their game or not, I think that's pretty fair, if they don't put effort in their PS3 game, I don't see why I should bother with their PS3 game.
You think that's bad? Before upgrading, I completed Quake on a 486DX2/66. The game varied between 2-8 fps (in a smaller window).ChrisAllenFiz said:
What the F*CK was I thinking?! I think the simple fact that I was playing Quake and the music rocked kept me going.
Beer Monkey
Member
Kittonwy said:
I usually play the games that are the most fun. I guess some could be really upset that there is a prettier or smoother version on another platform, but that's why it's best to just get all the platforms if possible. But either way, a good game is a good game. People with only a PS2 should definitely still play Psychonauts even though the Xbox and PC versions beat up on it in the graphical department.
I would suggest buying Mr. Carmack's next game if you find it fun, and passing if you don't.
meltpotato
Member
Kittonwy said:I prefer the best quality software on the system I play the most, what's the problem there? You mean you would buy stuff from Id on your console of choice even if it's badly made? This has more to do with whether or not Carmack and Id are going to pump out something good on the PS3, and depending on that I will decide whether I would buy their game or not, I think that's pretty fair, if they don't put effort in their PS3 game, I don't see why I should bother with their PS3 game.
perhaps due to the whole "fun" thing
edit: hah beaten
speculawyer
Member
beermonkey@tehbias said:
I still have unopened xbox 360 games, while psychonauts takes up time on my xbox 360.
But it sucks that much of the xbox 360 OS can't run during xbox emulation . . . I don't get notices when friends come online and invite me to online games. :-(
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Dude, it's Kittonwy. Look at his post history.Mojovonio said:
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
XiaNaphryz said:
It's hard to see his post history when I have him on ignore.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
LOL, this from the guy that said in the Gundam Musou thread:Kittonwy said:I prefer the best quality software on the system I play the most, what's the problem there? You mean you would buy stuff from Id on your console of choice even if it's badly made? This has more to do with whether or not Carmack and Id are going to pump out something good on the PS3, and depending on that I will decide whether I would buy their game or not, I think that's pretty fair, if they don't put effort in their PS3 game, I don't see why I should bother with their PS3 game.
Kittonwy said:It's about time they have a game with the name Musou on the PS3. The PS2 launched with Dynasty Warriors 2, I was appalled at Koei not just slapping a Dynasty Warrior title on the PS3, I didn't even care if it's crap, it had to be there.
Beer Monkey
Member
PepsimanVsJoe said:It's hard to see his post history when I have him on ignore.
nelsonroyale
Member
hmm from what he says I expect the game to look marginally better on the 360...what he is saying is that he doesnt feel it is worth the time playing directly to ps3 strengths...might be too time and cost consuming. Fare game to him, as long as it looks in step on the ps3.
peace
peace
speculawyer
Member
KTallguy said:
I sure hope so. I generally cheer on the underdog since I want a very competitive marketplace. MS WAS the underdog, but now it seems Sony is the underdog.
MS's unified PC & xbox 360 is a double-edge sword . . . it has attracted lots of developers who are making good products. But since many of those products also end up on the PC, people may decide the PS3 is the better platform since they can get the PS3 exclusives for the PS3 and get the quasi-xbox 360 exclusives on the PC. (For example, Bioshock, Alan Wake, etc.)
nelsonroyale said:
If you're going multiplatform, I think that is going to be a very common sentiment.
The next generation of games built from the ground up for their respective systems will make or break 360/PS3. Gears of War is a prime example of a beautiful, fun game that is built from the ground up on the 360. Both platforms are going to need games like GOW to really show what each system is capable of.
But Madden on 360 and Madden on PS3 will look exactly the same.
speculawyer said:
That's 90% of the reason why I didn't bother with Xbox in the last generation. I played 90% of Xbox hits on the PC. And Oblivion on the PC was a technically superior experience to the console version (I don't know how you could argue otherwise).
beermonkey@tehbias said:
Are you telling me NOT to buy Carmack's games? The last Id game I bought was Doom 3 on the PC which I didn't find particularly "fun" *makes quotation gesture* compared to other FPS I've played like Halo 1/2, SOCOM and Resistance, but then "fun" is very much dependent on personal preference.
Anyway, I don't have anything against fun games like Psychonauts on the PS2, but technical problems like a bad framerate or bugs can hamper the whole gameplay experience, obviously I can tolerate occasional framerate snags (heck I even tolerated Ubi's fatal bug in POP2 which I experienced first-hand). The way I see Carmack games is that they aren't games I can't live without, so it's up to them to appeal to me. It might sound strange to some but to me a game purchase is kind of like making a statement for me.
speculawyer said:
this is the main reason i haven't bought a 360 yet.
Between Sony's suddenly huge and varied first party development empire, and their (by default) next-gen Japanese exclusive status, I still expect PS3 to have the best variety of exclusive content.
Two thing have always thrown me about Carmack's negativity toward PS3:
One, Carmack is a notorious x86 assembly junkie. Its surprising to me that he isn't more excited to get his hands dirty on a new, powerful architecture.
Two, Carmack has a good track record for supporting Gnu/Linux. He has released a lot of his code under the GPL license, and Id always gets Linux binaries out for current games. This leads me to believe he personally uses Free Software tools like GCC/Make/etc , which Sony and IBM are also using for Cell development.
I guess I don't picture Carmack as the kind of programmer who gives a damn about Microsoft's heavyweight IDE and tools.