Freeza Under The Shower
Member
Oh, hello.
I have literally never heard of this movie.
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John Oliver - Hollywood Whitewashing
- Thread starter SlimySnake
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I have literally never heard of this movie.
It just does a good job showing the issue and gives more attention to it.
Also, I guess HBO/John Oliver noticed the popularity of the segment so they put it up on their official Youtube channel. The sound quality seems to be messed up for some reason though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XebG4TO_xss
JasoNsider
Member
Acknowledging that there is a problem is the first step to change. And up to now, there has been little to no acknowledgement.
This is actually somewhat similar to how Feminist Frequency has been addressing issues in the game scene. Eventually alternatives and new routes are discussed, but first you need to open eyes to a problem being present at all. Once we can agree on that, it becomes much easier to change.
WrenchNinja
Member
More like youre coming up with the lamest excuses possible in order to make sure any brown Persians aren't allowed to be cast. "Oh it's really about historical accuracy and that's why it's okay that the Prince is played by a white dude". Newsflash, this isn't history. It's a fantasy video game starring one of the only freaking brown dudes in the medium. But hey it's okay now, you can pat yourself on the back because Jake Gylenhaal sort of looks like a fair complexioned persian dude and that makes the casting okay.
Where did I say a modern Persian person should not be cast? I'm objecting to the idea that it would be more appropriate to cast an Arab, Indian, Israeli, or any other stereotypical "Middle Eastern" looking person then it is to cast a white guy. Because it's not, and it says a lot about the people making those demands.
WrenchNinja
Member
Well you're objecting to an idea I never even mentioned so I don't even know why you bothered to respond.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Well if John Oliver wants to help open eyes with his platform, god bless him.
There's a reason why we stay mad. We all hope Boyega's success will turn the tides of this very popular hollywood sentiment. If your movie is good, people will turn out to be entertained by even little-known black faces.
There's a reason why we stay mad. We all hope Boyega's success will turn the tides of this very popular hollywood sentiment. If your movie is good, people will turn out to be entertained by even little-known black faces.
I bothered to respond because your reasoning is rather vapid. The fact that the character in the game plays into racial stereotypes means that the movie inherently has to? That seems rather regressive.
Samurai_Heart
Member
Man some of those YouTube comments, smh
I actually liked it. Was a bit of a "white fantasy" in that it was seemingly made for those who liked watching Kung Fu movies and wanted to take part in the stories.
WrenchNinja
Member
I don't think you've actually played Sands of Time if youre actually saying this for realsies. Regressive, my goodness. You want to talk vapid, fucking historical accuracy? Really?
If your problem with PoP is really that Jake Gyllenhaal doesn't look like the character in the game, then I have no idea what you are even doing in this thread, as that is certainly not what John Oliver was complaining about, nor is it what everyone else is talking about.
WrenchNinja
Member
He doesn't look like an ethnically fair Persian either despite what some of you have deluded yourselves into believing. But no please continue the defense of the casting.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Oh, hello.
I saw that movie in theaters and own it on blu ray. Not a bad flick. Jackie vs Jet Li was a nice scrap.
He doesn't? Because I think he actually is pretty close, and I have never talked with any Persian people who disagree.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
As a Persian guy I think Gyllenhaal looks quite Persian.
My Persian family agrees.
My Persian family agrees.
It is not about looking persian, it is about stealing the roles that would only acept persian actors.
WrenchNinja
Member
Cool. I dont think he does, and my Persian friends don't. And it doesn't seem like John Oliver's writers think so either. Tough noogies I guess.
adamsappel
Member
This is different than whitewashing, though? Does it have a name? Hollywood often emphasizes the white protagonist in a story ostensibly about a minority. Matthew Broderick in Glory, Kevin Kline in Cry Freedom, Nicholas Cage in Windtalkers, Leonardo DiCaprio in Blood Diamond.
How do we feel about Joseph Fiennes playing Michael Jackson?
I wasn't making my argument in support of the video's point. The one I was answering to claimed that there's no way The Last Samurai can be considered white-washing because of the Super Duper Deep story of the movie where a broken white person goes to be mentally/spiritually healed to a foreign land, but it can be and it's actually a pretty typical example of it. Not white-washed casting, sure, but it's still a film that glorifies a white person's role, American one's at that.
As I said, Last Samurai alone doesn't bear the burden of having to change the ways of Hollywood, but it's still a pretty fine example of white-washing in general and can be criticized about it. The movie's name might not reference Tom Cruise's character, but the movie is still very much about his white-ass character.
I think it can still be put under the umbrella of white-washing. It's emphasizing the White Man's Important Role in some fictional or historical event, so I think it applies.
CyclopsRock
Member
Umph, the Idris Elba reference is weird because it's so wrong. It's not hard to find actual decent examples.
Great clip. Avatar annoyed me the entire time I watched it for multiple reasons, but Ryan really nails it.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
When a message is wrapped in humor, it helps to prevent some people from getting defensive when being shown an unpleasant truth. A video that went more in depth but without cute similes would not be well received.
Oh, hello.
Funny enough, I really have no problem with the film until Jet Li and Jackie Chan started speaking English in ancient China.
Septimus Prime
Member
Me, too. I actually liked this movie, and I also liked Prince of Persia and The Last Samurai.
That said, I don't believe that shoehorning in a white protagonist to give audiences a "more relatable" point of reference was necessary, and having Mr. White Dude end up being the hero and getting the girl was an extra slap in the face.
It pains me to admit it but that this is definitely true for me.
Maybe it's because it feels more absurd and less like I'm being lectured, even if the point is entirely the same and valid in both cases.
Why isn't anyone complaining about 300 then? They are all black and brown savages so I guess it's cool in that case.
CyclopsRock
Member
I think it's worth remembering, though, that a very traditional tool of fiction is to have a person thrown into a context they don't understand so that you can explain to the audience - via that character - what's going on in the world. It happens with Harry Potter, so that all these weird quirks of the wizarding world can be explained to the reader. If the story was about Ron instead of Harry, then either Ron would need to be incredibly stupid or otherwise they'd have to not explain the concepts to the audience (kinda like in Metal Gear Solid where Snake is constantly asking people things on the Codec that he should really know). Luke Skywalker is another example (it's often simple country-folk - Frodo and Bilbo in LOTR and The Hobbit respectively, Hopps in Zootropolis). Almost all War stories have "the rookie" too, so they have someone to explain the context of the war to, or specifics about what they're doing that should be evident to an established team. Obviously this doesn't mean that this fish-out-of-water always has to be white (one example of this is Mulan, but that's still a fish-out-of-water situation on the grounds that she's a female and, because she hasn't been groomed from childhood to join the military, the audience can learn about it through her), but if you want to tell a story about, say, Native Americans to an audience who isn't familiar with the culture, it helps to have someone who isn't already from that culture to effectively act as the audience in the story.
Dice//
Banned
Why Diversity Matters, straight from the people it affects
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...inclusion.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=1
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...inclusion.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=1
But when you've got people in this very thread listing off Indian actors as suitable replacements to Gyllenhall, what is the difference?
Dreams-Visions
Member
really interesting page
Already Torn
Banned
I like that they even brought Avatar into it. The Ridley Scott quote is the most cringeworthy part though.
The difference is that Gyllenhall would be called in ANY role. Minorities have to grasp what they can.
Indian actors for a persian role is bad ? yes... but not even CLOSE to another white star.
Which is why I am not that sad of Tilda Swinton as The Ancient One in Doctor Strange.
Would I want an asian person to do it ? Yes, of course, but roles for 50+ year women not named Meryl Stripp are ridiculously rare, SPECIALY as powerfull figures
It is not a binary good or bad .... it has levels.
For example, Danish Girl is shit for choosing a cis male dude to play a trans woman ... but Transamerica is LESS worst because they choose a cis WOMAN to play a trans WOMAN.... but they STILL didn't hired a trans actress like Tangerine.
See, to me this idea is kinda offensive too. It's better to be LESS historically accurate in order to cast a minority that is NOT the minority the actor is supposed to be depicting?
Think of this as "if you are NOT going to cast a THE minority, than AT LEAST be another minority"
Yes, it is still offensive, but at least one gives more oportunity of work to people who have none and one doesn't
SigmasonicX
Member
Really interesting article. I think this should get its own thread, if there isn't one already.
Frozenprince
Banned
Oh, hello.
Well I mean, the whole point of that movie was that he was just some schlub random white kid from southie who got thrown into the Kung Fu world of awesomeness, and at the end of the day, he pretty much fucked everything up until Jackie Chan became the real hero and saved the day.
It was a weeb fulfillment fantasy for Kung Fu nerds. Not really an example of whitewashing considering every single other character was Asian American and super important and that they were the ones that actually did everything that mattered.
ThisGuy
Member
Dang, Vera Chokalingam is one of my crush's. Ain't nobody taking anything away from her!
I would love to see her in more.
Noah is terrible. Oliver however, is quite good.
gutter_trash
Banned
dayum! JJ dodge a bullet on that one
poor Meth Damon, every one will hate him for "that" episode
I'm really glad that they made The Last Emperor back then and outside of the Hollywood system. I don't think anyone could cast that title role as white, but it can easily be Peter O'Toole's character expanded to become the protagonist.
That's exactly it. It's the cynicism of the studios that created the current problem.
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