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Joseph Anderson Vs No Man's Sky

How do you spin it as not?
That's like watching 20 Lord of the Rings movies and then claiming you actually don't like the genre/story.
Casebook false dilemma. You're acting as if the only possible reason to continue playing a game is if one is still enjoying it, or else play would cease. However, these are clearly not the only two options. For instance, one can continue playing despite enjoyment having ceased to nonetheless be as informed about the game as possible and to see how it ends or in hope that at some point something changes, the game does become enjoyable again, regardless of whether that hope is actually ever fulfilled or not. If you refuse to accept that the possibilities you've presented are not the only ones then you're just living in a different reality, I'm sorry. That is to say, you can ignore these other possibilities as much as you like, but it doesn't stop them from existing. It just makes you delusional.

And what's particularly insidious about this variant of the false dilemma, which I like to call the Skyrim argument since that's where I first saw it in mass is that it can be used to shut down any and all criticism about a game. Played too few hours? You haven't seen enough to criticize it and haven't given it a fair shake. Played too many? Well, you must have enjoyed it and therefore your criticisms are irrelevant. There's no happy medium that can't be disregarded like this. Of course, nonetheless it remains a false dilemma since it obscures alternate possibilities, including the most likely ones and therefore remains in very poor form.
 
What a great video. That ending though, damn. I only managed half the hours he did before I uninstalled never to be played again.
 
Captivated is not the right word as he was making himself as informed as possible for the sake of this video critique. Doesn't mean that the game is captivating in anyway shape or form, especially with this amount of not very easy to miss design flaws coupled with baffling decisions like making sure EVERY planet is the same with a new palette. I'd sincerely recommend watching the video before posting and making assumptions about the creator of said video or at least make it less obvious that you didn't bother watching the content in the OP.

So he did it for hits is the correct answer.

You are the one who is spinning simply because you still haven't watched the video.

I just watched the video and it was pretty much as expected except he never actually finished the game due to it crashing on him. No you're turn, stop the spin. 58hrs is a ludicrous amount of time to spend on any game you don't like. You can admit this.

The "controversy" that someone didn't like No Man's Sky? Wow what a world shaker. No time to actually watch a video before we rush to defend that.

It's not about if you like it or hate it, it is about the stupidity of not recognising the gameplay loop after at least 8 hours in.

I've played plenty of shitty games for long periods of times.

It's what you do when you want to be informed about a game. Or in Joseph's case, when he wants to be informed since this is what his channel is about...

If he really wanted to be that informed 58 hrs would never be enough given the size of the game. 18 quintillion planets and he did maybe a few hundred?

If you're going to critique a game as thoroughly as he does you're kinda obligated to see it through to the end.

But why? Why bother? Going in you should know this game cannot be completed no matter how many hours you play. You will never ever ever see everything the game has to offer.

Please watch the video. You're embarrassing yourself.

I just finished it, read above.

He played that long purely for the sake of his video. In the video he points out that he became bored of it quickly, but has a channel policy to finish every game he starts before critiquing it. In fact, he points out that this is the game that almost made him abandon his "finish every game" policy, but he stuck with it to find out what happens when you reach the galactic center.

Edit: I see now that others have already pointed this out.

Yea, he also didn't finish it though so the policy is obviously not that strong. He should have known what he was getting into far earlier and as pointed out above 58 hours or going from beginning to end will only show you so little of the entire game.
 
So he did it for hits is the correct answer.
No, he did it for the critique, he literally says in the video why he did it and yet you keep bulshitting, I assume you'd prefer it if a person who is doing a critique is more informed about the subject matter. Just take the L dude. -_-

Yea, he also didn't finish it though so the policy is obviously not that strong. He should have known what he was getting into far earlier and as pointed out above 58 hours or going from beginning to end will only show you so little of the entire game.
This is bullshit, this implies that there is something to actually see. But as the video shows, he saw the entire self indulgent ending. There's nothing new or interesting to discover, people have completed the game 11 times, and datamined the hell out of it, there's nothing there.
 
Yea, he also didn't finish it though so the policy is obviously not that strong. He should have known what he was getting into far earlier and as pointed out above 58 hours or going from beginning to end will only show you so little of the entire game.

... He literally finished it though, there's footage of him finishing the game in the video
and it's hilarious
. Did you watch the video?
 
No, he did it for the critique, he literally says in the video why he did it and yet you keep bulshitting, I assume you'd prefer it if a person who is doing a critique is more informed about the subject matter. Just take the L dude. -_-

You're still not understanding how stupid the whole situation is.
Why play a portion of the game for 58hrs if you don't like the gameplay loop?
Just admit he was stupid for trying to attempt it and i'm happy to leave it there.
 
... He literally finished it though, there's footage of him finishing the game in the video
and it's hilarious
. Did you watch the video?

It crashed, he stopped and tweeted it crashed and said he's giving up on trying to reach the center.
 
I just watched the video and it was pretty much as expected except he never actually finished the game due to it crashing on him. No you're turn, stop the spin. 58hrs is a ludicrous amount of time to spend on any game you don't like. You can admit this.
You didn't watch the video because he did finish the game.

It crashed, he stopped and tweeted it crashed and said he's giving up on trying to reach the center.

Try watching the video posted in the OP.
 
You're still not understanding how stupid the whole situation is.
Why play a portion of the game for 58hrs if you don't like the gameplay loop?
Just admit he was stupid for trying to attempt it and i'm happy to leave it there.
He didn't play a portion of the game though, what big secret do you know about that hundreds of dataminers haven't been able to discover that says that triggering the ending isn't the whole point of the game and that there's nothing new to discover. What hidden gameplay mechanics are unlocked on subsequent playthroughs? What new things are there to discover? Because as it stands, the answer to all of those questions is:
CX9iTse.gif


How is he stupid for making himself as informed as possible and beating the game keeping in with his channel mandate?
It crashed, he stopped and tweeted it crashed and said he's giving up on trying to reach the center.
Watch the video fam I just realized how implausible it is that you would've finished it in the time inbetween your posts.
 
You're still not understanding how stupid the whole situation is.
Why play a portion of the game for 58hrs if you don't like the gameplay loop?
Just admit he was stupid for trying to attempt it and i'm happy to leave it there.

Have you ever worked in your life? People can spend hours doing things they don't like doing. This is his channel. In many respects this is his job.
 
Have you ever worked in your life? People can spend hours doing things they don't like doing. This is his channel. In many respects this is his job.

He also talks about how he strives to finish games he critiques to give his best thoughts on them.
 
I'm almost envious of people who can invest 100-200 hours into a game like this or an Early Access survival game on Steam and feel satisfied by it.
 
So he did it for hits is the correct answer.



I just watched the video and it was pretty much as expected except he never actually finished the game due to it crashing on him. No you're turn, stop the spin. 58hrs is a ludicrous amount of time to spend on any game you don't like. You can admit this.



It's not about if you like it or hate it, it is about the stupidity of not recognising the gameplay loop after at least 8 hours in.



If he really wanted to be that informed 58 hrs would never be enough given the size of the game. 18 quintillion planets and he did maybe a few hundred?



But why? Why bother? Going in you should know this game cannot be completed no matter how many hours you play. You will never ever ever see everything the game has to offer.



I just finished it, read above.



Yea, he also didn't finish it though so the policy is obviously not that strong. He should have known what he was getting into far earlier and as pointed out above 58 hours or going from beginning to end will only show you so little of the entire game.

But he did finish it. He even started a new game plus. What are you takin about?
 
Erhm, no?

Even if you divorce the game from the promises and hype, it's still incredibly shallow and underwhelming.

But would it have been if it was actually the game Murray was describing? Not the game some people had dreamed up in their heads, but just the game Murray was describing.

I don't think that's true.

First of all, the dream of procedural generation is still alive. Look at something like Space Engine.

The future is far away, but the future is bright.

Second, the principle difference between something like No Man's Sky and Spelunky or Minecraft is that the former has bad game design, while the latter two have good design layered on their procedural generation.

Consider the difference, Minecraft is a game that encourages player investment with well-thought out but basic gameplay loops. The most basic gameplay mechanic is duh, mining (or perhaps more broadly "harvesting). And to find suitable mining spots, you need to explore. These two mechanics feed into player investment which comes mostly in the form of building. Players build crazy castles and mansions and they concoct amazing red-stone machines. Boom, player investment and engaging with the world. Each time you spawn a new world seed, you'll never know where the materials you need to build are going to be. Having basic biomes means you at least need to wander a bit to see different things. You'll never know what the landscape is going to look like and how you might need to adjust your home base to fit it, or how you'll need to terraform it.

And with survival mechanics, Minecraft further encourages you to explore, and then later encourages you to try things like farming. Again, investing you in calling a place "yours" and stamping an identity and ownership on a completely procedurally generated world. Throw in multiplayer and you have some fairly engaging player co-op building and even PvP going on.

Compare this to No Man's Sky which is a glorified seek-and-find cum tourism simulator. The resources you need are only needed to power your suit, tool and ship (or to sell). There's nothing else you can do with them. You can never build a home base, you never can or even need to create a resource farm. Land on a planet, go "hey that's a pretty landscape," press the screenshot button and then you just wander around looking for the stupid little zinc plant that looks the same on ever damn planet so you can press square and harvest it. You can't even build or customize a ship and are left only with the option of buying procedurally generated ships from vendors.

And on top of the no building or customization, there's no player interaction. So forget building together or fighting one another, you can't even engage in the basic enjoyment of exploring together.

You could even make your same claim about the preponderance of survival-resource-crafting games inn Steam. Doesn't the failure of No Man's Sky show those are a dead-end market bubble waiting to pop? And the answer is again, no. The fundamental flaw of No Man's Sky isn't its procedural generation or its focus on survival-resource-crafting. The flaw is that it basically does nothing with those ideas. There's almost nothing that makes the game more engaging or that draws the player to invest something back, and that's what's caused the backlash, and I think that's the lesson to be taken away from it.

Totally agreed on Space Engine. It isn't really a game but what it has achieved in terms of universe generation is way beyond NMS, Elite, or Star Citizen. It's the only one that has life-sized planets and star systems you can seamlessly travel between without ever seeing a loading screen. It's the only one where everything you see in the sky... is actually out there.

The space game I want is pretty much that but with the Mako. Elite Dangerous is trying to eventually become that game. Star Citizen is also trying to eventually become that game but with more concessions for the sake of gameplay. Hello Games essentially advertised NMS as that game but on foot and a more stylized vision of the cosmos. The problem is half of what they "confirmed" isn't actually there.

With what is there, the only significant problem with the game is that everything you need is everywhere. This was proven when someone was able to completely upgrade all their equipment by exploring one planet for 30 hours.
 
Are you serious?

Hell yes.

You didn't watch the video because he did finish the game.



Try watching the video posted in the OP.

Alright, just saw he went back to it and finished it. Still I standby 58 hrs is a ridiculous amount of time to spend on something you don't enjoy.

He didn't play a portion of the game though, what big secret do you know about that hundreds of dataminers haven't been able to discover that says that triggering the ending isn't the whole point of the game and that there's nothing new to discover. What hidden gameplay mechanics are unlocked on subsequent playthroughs? What new things are there to discover? Because as it stands, the answer to all of those questions is:
CX9iTse.gif


How is he stupid for making himself as informed as possible and beating the game keeping in with his channel mandate?

Watch the video fam

Re-watched the last part and saw he went back to it after the tweet.

Have you ever worked in your life? People can spend hours doing things they don't like doing. This is his channel. In many respects this is his job.

I like my work, I wouldn't stay with a job I didn't like.

Either you have comprehension problems or no, you didn't/you skimmed through it.

Yea, I skimmed. 33mins is a long time.
 
You're still not understanding how stupid the whole situation is.
Why play a portion of the game for 58hrs if you don't like the gameplay loop?
Just admit he was stupid for trying to attempt it and i'm happy to leave it there.

Now it is clear you are just trolling and I will stop feeding you.
 
Casebook false dilemma. You're acting as if the only possible reason to continue playing a game is if one is still enjoying it, or else play would cease. However, these are clearly not the only two options. For instance, one can continue playing despite enjoyment having ceased to nonetheless be as informed about the game as possible and to see how it ends or in hope that at some point something changes, the game does become enjoyable again, regardless of whether that hope is actually ever fulfilled or not. If you refuse to accept that the possibilities you've presented are not the only ones then you're just living in a different reality, I'm sorry. That is to say, you can ignore these other possibilities as much as you like, but it doesn't stop them from existing. It just makes you delusional.

And what's particularly insidious about this variant of the false dilemma, which I like to call the Skyrim argument since that's where I first saw it in mass is that it can be used to shut down any and all criticism about a game. Played too few hours? You haven't seen enough to criticize it and haven't given it a fair shake. Played too many? Well, you must have enjoyed it and therefore your criticisms are irrelevant. There's no happy medium that can't be disregarded like this. Of course, nonetheless it remains a false dilemma since it obscures alternate possibilities, including the most likely ones and therefore remains in very poor form.
Solid post. Discussions instantly improve once people stop trying to see things as black and white. Relying on hours spent in a game to make this or that conclusion about its worth is awfully simplistic.
 
Quite an interesting video and that ending while funny just highlight that the developers didn't bother with quality testing and were more interested in getting the game out of the door.

Honestly speaking I never got the hype for No Man's Sky as every time I saw footage it just looked like Minecraft but in space and I was always questioning what do you do in No Man's Sky?

saying things like this is like using the term "lazy devs", an incredible amount of work went in to make NMS, whatever testers they had probably found more bugs than you can possibly imagine.

I sold the game and thought over all it was a massive disappointment but I can still say that and appreciate the work that went in rather than just dismiss it as something that took little effort and wasn't worked very hard on.
 
I like my work, I wouldn't stay with a job I didn't like.

I knew you would say this and even you must be aware of how silly a response this is. Hint not everyone in the world can afford to leave jobs they don't like. Especially if they have a family to feed, have some perspective man.

This doesn't even remotely change the fact anyway that the majority of people can and do spend their time doing things they don't like so the entire arguement is asinine in the first place.
 
I like my work, I wouldn't stay with a job I didn't like.

Congratulations. Not everyone in the rest of the world is so privileged.

Also again, he played through the end of the game because he has a personal code of always trying to finish what he started, even if it's not actually enjoyable.

I'm sure you can understand this considering how much time you spent in The Tomorrow Children thread, the game about doing unfun things repeatedly for next to no payoff.

Hell you made the OT for it. This surely isn't a concept lost on you.
 
Yea, he also didn't finish it though so the policy is obviously not that strong. He should have known what he was getting into far earlier and as pointed out above 58 hours or going from beginning to end will only show you so little of the entire game.

Lol, so what is finishing No Man's Sky?

This is the most bizarre hill I've seen someone die on.
 
Re-watched the last part and saw he went back to it after the tweet.
So what're you arguing about now? Complaining that he completed the game and is making a critique about it whilst being as informed as possible? First you were talking about how he didn't finish it, (and were proven wrong since everyone saw how incredibly transparent you were about not watching the content in the OP)and only played a little now it's a complaint about the length of time he invested?

Seriously, it's a critique/analysis. If all your posts are going to boil down to versions of
"lol didn't watch"

while not actually engaging any part of the critique itself then seriously why are you even here?
 
Hah, the ending.

It's a game where the core idea they started out with is basically just set dressing... Randomly generated planets. What they should've done is started out with a core gameplay idea.

But what do you do etc.

I pretty much called it when I saw people so knee-jerkily defensive about that one question without ever providing a satisfactory answer verified by game footage. As a rule of thumb, if a game doesn't look fun in videos, you should at the very least be skeptical until you play it yourself. Or perhaps I overestimate the average gamer's ability to discern fun from watching gameplay? I do have the advantage of having played games for the last 35 years...
 
Just admit he was stupid for trying to attempt it and i'm happy to leave it there.

OK buddy. Can't leave someone insulting your favorite toy unanswered.

Consumer fidelity to the entertainment they buy is by far the most pathetic thing I will never understand.
 
I knew you would say this and even you must be aware of how silly a response this is. Hint not everyone in the world can afford to leave jobs they don't like. Especially if they have a family to feed, have some perspective man.

This doesn't even remotely change the fact anyway that the majority of people can and do spend their time doing things they don't like so the entire arguement is asinine in the first place.

I'm sure it's more the people don't know what they want to do so don't set goals to work for, but anyways that is going off topic.

Congratulations. Not everyone in the rest of the world is so privileged.

Also again, he played through the end of the game because he has a personal code of always trying to finish what he started, even if it's not actually enjoyable.

I'm sure you can understand this considering how much time you spent in The Tomorrow Children thread, the game about doing unfun things repeatedly for next to no payoff.

Hell you made the OT for it. This surely isn't a concept lost on you.

The Tomorrow Children is awesome though.

Lol, so what is finishing No Man's Sky?

This is the most bizarre hill I've seen someone die on.

Don't worry, I'm getting over responding to so many posts already.

So what're you arguing about now? Complaining that he completed the game and is making a critique about it whilst being as informed as possible?

I'm just saying this guy isn't the first to play for large periods of time and then state they didn't enjoy it. The concept of wasting time to something you don't enjoy is lost on me, anyways over it, clearly you guys n girls don't agree.
 
But what do you do etc.

I pretty much called it when I saw people so knee-jerkily defensive about that one question without ever providing a satisfactory answer verified by game footage. As a rule of thumb, if a game doesn't look fun in videos, you should at the very least be skeptical until you play it yourself. Or perhaps I overestimate the average gamer's ability to discern fun from watching gameplay? I do have the advantage of having played games for the last 35 years...

Except plenty of people pointed out game footage showing what you do. It's just that they also though that the stuff not shown (things with the aliens, getting to the centre, what would become "Atlus") would actually be substantial and be the "other half" of the game. The stuff you do the gameplay loop of mine -> Upgrade -> mine better -> Upgrade more.

The "what do you do?" question was bullshit for a long time, it doesn't magically become valid because the game ended up being shit and a massive disappointment and there actually being no reason for the "doing". We knew what you do for a long time before the game was out, we just didn't know that the stuff you do would lead to literally no where and be completely pointless. That is where people made the mistake, having faith in Murray and what he said and implied about the larger goal.
 
Yet he still played for 58 hours, not many games can captivate people for that long so despite what people say he still got way more out of it than his monies worth otherwise he would have stopped 50 or more hours ago.

I did not like playing the Division whatsoever, I thought it was boring and dumb, still got the Platinum for it though, I wanted to see it to the end to see if there was something I was missing...nope.

Time invested does not equal time enjoyed.
 
You're still not understanding how stupid the whole situation is.
Why play a portion of the game for 58hrs if you don't like the gameplay loop?
Just admit he was stupid for trying to attempt it and i'm happy to leave it there.

Shouldn't we as gamers want reviewers to thoroughly play a game before reviewing it.
 
I've been avoiding all spoilers up until now, and trying to enjoy it for what it was. I, too, had zero expectations for the most part. But after seeing this soul crushing video, and knowing that nothing gets better, and the journey to the center is meaningless... Yeah, fuck this game. I have better ways to spend my time.

And unless the team ends up fixing/upgrading it a profound way, that adds more meaning, I'll continue to avoid it and everything Hello Games develops in the future. It's going to take a lot for them to regain my trust.
 
This game screamed pie in the errrmm... sky since it was first revealed to me. Dat ending tho. lol. It's like the game is just trolling you at that point.
 
What I hope happens with this game, is it gets the updates & support from the devs it desperately needs. It's time to give us an update, Hello Games. There are still those of us who are enjoying the game, for what it is currently. But it's not what we were sold. I'm pretty sure that's not an exaggeration at this point.

Come on, let's go. Man up, do the Geoff interview & get PAST it. Put it in the past. Continue to develop the game.
 
The game has over 18 quintillion planets, seeing everything is impossible.

I'm going to give you a massive spoiler:

The procedural generation in NMS isn't actually that good and yes, you can mostly see everything major in the game in ~50 hours.

If you continue to believe that you haven't "seen everything" because there is "16 bajillion-zillion-million planets" you fell for exactly the marketing/obsfucation that Sean Murray created to preemptively deflect criticism, and to try and prop the game up to be more than what it actually is.

Just admit you never bothered watching the video when you started posting and now you're trying to weasel your way out of admitting it/understanding why he would do it in the first place.
 
The game has over 18 quintillion planets, seeing everything is impossible.
You've pretty much experienced everything gameplay-wise it has to offer within the first couple of hours. If you aren't enjoying it then, nothing that comes later will change your mind.

But yeah, it's a very shallow game at its core and should really have been marketed as more of a walking sim than a space sim.
 
The game has over 18 quintillion planets, seeing everything is impossible.

Do those planets have new gameplay, stories and flora/fauna that no data miner has found yet? If not then yes, you can see everything in a very short amount of time.

All that "everything" is is pretty procedural planets and weird looking prefab creatures. I can play Space Engine for free or Spore for cheap if I wanted to see those.
 
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