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[moondoggerr]

Human personalities and allegiances are so much more complicated than your puritanical reasoning suggests. It's not helpful to promote a Dyak-esque For or Against consensus on the soul of the alleged foot-fetishist and confirmed weeping public shirt-remover Joss Whedon.

Purity tests divide progressives, and only serve to create discord amongst the many and varied types of imperfect people who genuinely care about issues of social justice.


Go watch Wonder Woman again. This is pretty much the moral of the whole goddamn movie.

Agree strongly. Also, "problematic" is a calorie free word.

 

[riotous]

Agree strongly. Also, "problematic" is a calorie free word.

I've noticed it's use has become problematic.

 

[Se7enSword]

Joss Whedon? More like Joss Weedon

 

[Messofanego]

Human personalities and allegiances are so much more complicated than your puritanical reasoning suggests. It's not helpful to promote a Dyak-esque For or Against consensus on the soul of the alleged foot-fetishist and confirmed weeping public shirt-remover Joss Whedon.

Purity tests divide progressives, and only serve to create discord amongst the many and varied types of imperfect people who genuinely care about issues of social justice.

Go watch Wonder Woman again. This is pretty much the moral of the whole goddamn movie.

I don't think the Wonder Woman film has anything in it about being ok with the garbage in Whedon's script No one here is saying he should be banned from further work, just that he made some big mistakes and is being criticised for it. If someone's not a fan of Joss Whedon anymore, that's their call to make, not yours. Everyone has their own limits.

 

[Puck Beaverton]

Joss Whedon? More like Joss Weedon

Nailed it

 

[Slayven]

We don't speak of this Slay.

Stupid comics

Well, did he tell her or not?

Yeah they ended up shacking up

 

[excelsiorlef]

Stupid comics


Yeah they ended up shacking up

It's the old adage of too much freedom can lead to bad stories

 

[Puck Beaverton]

If this thread has taught me anything it's that comic books are bad.

 

[riotous]

How does the screenplay read for the fully nude Chris Pine scene? Or the numerous scenes where everyone is tranfixed on Gals beauty?

 

[JigglesBunny]

It wasn't all that appalling until the "wicked sexy" bit. Then I got to the rest.

Being a writer myself and having friends in the profession, you would be shocked to see some of the downright offensive trash that hits a page especially from your big name folks like Joss. The amount of blatant and flagrant racism, sexism, xenophobia and homophobia is so obnoxious and appalling that you would think it was an industry populated by eighth grade boys who just caught their first episode of Family Guy.

 

[Aske]

No one here is saying he should be banned from further work, just that he made some big mistakes and is being criticised for it. If someone's not a fan of Joss Whedon anymore, that's their call to make, not yours. Everyone has their own limits.

All true: I was responding to the suggestion that Joss Whedon should no longer be considered an ally.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Pylea is crap that they threw together because the actors they wanted for the final few eps weren't available. It was bad television.

It absolutely was not bad television. You are certainly in the minority on that one.

But you also think Dollhouse is a sexist show so I'm just not sure your opinion on Whedon related stuff is on the up and up anyway.

 

[Weiss]

All true: I was responding to the suggestion that Joss Whedon should no longer be considered an ally.

That's likewise something held to individuals.

Making a big deal about how progressive you are and then writing this, or pushing really hard for Inara to get gangraped so Mal can "treat her like a lady", that ain't okay.

 

[anaron]

That's likewise something held to individuals.

Making a big deal about how progressive you are and then writing this, or pushing really hard for Inara to get gangraped so Mal can "treat her like a lady", that ain't okay.

Both are hypothetical scripts from 11-14 years ago? Not to excuse them, but good lord.

 

[Slayven]

It's the old adage of too much freedom can lead to bad stories

Sometimes a budget and execs standing over you are a good thing

 

[Chmpocalypse]

It's the old adage of too much freedom can lead to bad stories

The Shymalan Effect

 

[Jest Chillin]

That's likewise something held to individuals.

Making a big deal about how progressive you are and then writing this, or pushing really hard for Inara to get gangraped so Mal can "treat her like a lady", that ain't okay.

This is like a twisted game of telephone. The quote from Tim Minear says it was the story he pitched to get Minear to join the show. Minear even quotes Whedon as saying "These are the kinds of stories we are going to do."

The article then changes that to an episode that Whedon definitely pitched. (Which as Creator, Executive Producer, and Showrunner, he doesn't have to "pitch" that episode to get it made).

Then someone in the thread suggsts it was definitely going to get made in Season 2 (even though Season 1 was cancelled less than halfway through the first Season; no one plans out episode specifics like that).

Now it's that he was pushing really hard to specifically have Inara gangraped.


For fucks sake people. It was a rough concept of the types of dark and heavy things Joss wanted to explore with the show. Minear was an Executive Producer throughout the whole series... so if it was a story Joss used to get him to join the project, that means it happened before they even started filming.

And if you bothered to watch the show, the idea obviously led to the episode Bushwhacked... Where the crew of Serenity comes upon a ship that's been attacked by Reavers and find a single, male survivor. The entire crew just knows what this means because in the Pilot episode they come across a Reaver a ship and Simon and Zoë have this dialogue exchange.

Zoë: You never heard of Reavers?
Simon: Uh, campfire stories - men gone savage on the edge of space, killing...
Zoë: They're not stories.
Simon: What happens if they board us?
Zoë: If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh and sew our skins into their clothing. And if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order.

Now, again, I point to the original Minear quote

She had this magic syringe. She would take this drug. And if she were, for instance, raped, the rapist would die a horrible death. The story was that she gets kidnapped by Reavers and when Mal finally got to the ship to save her from the Reavers, he gets on the Reaver ship and all the Reavers are dead. Which would suggest a kind of really bad assault.

There would be no suggestion necessary if this was an idea for an actual episode because it was established in the first two episodes EXACTLY what Reavers do to the people that are captured. And in the movie Serenity, they don't suggest anything about the Reavers because they know that the audience already knows what they're capable of. So all of the terrible stuff that would happen to them if they're caught is known.

The Inara getting raped aspect, was again, an idea used to convey the tone of how dark they wanted to go in the show. It wasn't going to be lighthearted or superficial. It was going to be heavy. And it was pretty damn heavy at times. Bushwhacked, Out of Gas, Safe, Ariel, War Stories, Objects in Space, Heart of Gold, and The Message all have heavy themes and touch on if not outright address some serious things.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Both are hypothetical scripts from 11-14 years ago? Not to excuse them, but good lord.

Right. This is some purity test BS right there.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Sometimes a budget and execs standing over you are a good thing

Yep.