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JRPGs should stop changing music during battle.

I actually like it when games don't transition between songs if that particularly location/moment warrants a sense urgency or completely different mood with a single track. Works for me when used occasionally.

Although for your issue, I agree at the very least more games shouldn't restart songs after every battle.
 
Changing tracks for battles can be very effective in setting the mood, especially if battle musics change as the game goes on... and if it follows a certain leitmotif. It conveys a feeling of "this is it" or "everything's against you".
Examples off the top of my head:
-Trails in the sky SC's final dungeon uses a battle music that features the leitmotif you hear throughout the game. A lot.
-Trails in the sky The 3rd has an excellent hellish battle music only played in the 7th chapter.
-"Tales of" games usually have battle themes that change and fit different parts of the story and when you're at the end of the game, they usually become pretty epic.

I love battle themes. :)
 
Two Words said:
This may seem like a nit picky thing, but it's something that has always bugged me about JRPGs and I'm curious if I'm in the minority here. A lot of JRPGs will have a moment in the game where the music stays the same in and out of battle. This is usually done because of a particular moment in the game. But it is so much better than playing the other 99% of the game and having the music constantly swap.

FFX- Zanarkand Ruins: https://youtu.be/63qqyYQDqZ8?t=64

FFVII- Bombinb Mission: https://youtu.be/CBvnot7pkvg?t=74

And an example of a game doing it wrong

Persona 4: Heaven, Paradise Dungeon: https://youtu.be/wBNdWRh6kO4?t=249

I hope you like listening to the same first 20 seconds of the song. I'd rather just hear the music of the area through battle unless the battle itself is a special battle that will be taking a long time. Otherwise, you're just interrupting music constantly.
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I've not thought about it much before, but those two you've quoted from Final Fantasy really do work amazingly well.
FluxWaveZ said:
The games should take the music of that dungeon environment, and seamlessly transform them into a battle variation of the song during the transition into an encounter.
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I think this is a great idea.
 
Two Words said:
A lot of JRPGs will have a moment in the game where the music stays the same in and out of battle. This is usually done because of a particular moment in the game. But it is so much better than playing the other 99% of the game and having the music constantly swap.
Click to expand...

Well, there's something very practical about limiting things that are intentionally used for effect. Oftentimes these are poignant or emotional moments, and the fact the music does something you don't expect it to adds to that. (This is why there is boss and final boss music too). Do it too often and it becomes un-special (e.g. literally too much of a good thing)

I'll concede that a lot of the time, battle music can become repetitive. Which is not a good thing. Michael Sweet wrote a very good article about this which is well worth a read.

(In fact Designing Music Now is a very, very excellent industry resource)
 
I just hate on how every Tales game, the great battle themes get replaced by less than pleasing ones.

Except Zestiria, I like that game's approach to its standard BGM.
 
Sounds like the best of both worlds is Soken's Dungeon and Raid music from FFXIV :). Seamlessly changes between battle and dungeon version of a theme depending on if a fight is going on, mostly showcased during the 24 man raids but there are a couple dungeon tunes from 1.0 that do the same as well. Doesnt restart just to start a battle or finish a battle, just moves on to the next phase of the song like it was constantly playing in the background.
 
Gsnap said:
Not with a dynamic/adaptive soundtrack. Which is what the poster your quote was referring to was talking about.

At least, not with a properly implemented one.

Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0gvM4q2hdI
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This is gold, thank you!

Nintendo invented this for games like they did many other things for games. I guess it goes to show they will always try to invent, for better or for worse. Anyway. we need examples of simple JRPG battle music than can do a 1 or 0 and cover the entire spectrum with it's brilliant orchestra

Mr Nash said:
I like battle music in JRPGs. If I'm stuck listening to the same music regardless of whether or not I'm in battle, I just wind up getting bored and turning off the music all together.
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Ya did I not say we'd lose a player if either of the themes went on longer than they should. I think only an expertly crafted theme can avoid that without algorithms, I think we had a couple posted so far
 
I like battle music in JRPGs. If I'm stuck listening to the same music regardless of whether or not I'm in battle, I just wind up getting bored and turning off the music all together.
 
Dynamic instrument layers should definitely be more common in RPG soundtracks, and not just for battle music. Xenoblade X stands out as a recent example - the way the flight music abruptly cuts in and resets is a fairly common complaint. You usually don't hear the flight music long enough for it to not be jarring when it resets to the area theme; so a separate cue doesn't make sense. Whereas if they'd gone with seamless 'flight' versions of the area themes, they could still give the action some musical feedback without creating a situation where you hear the first 15 seconds of a separate musical cue ad nauseam.
 
kagamin said:
I love when music switches, who doesn't get excited when they hear a cool battle theme like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1_7UQHIDcA
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That's a good one, but that sounds so expensive!! That's like a whole band and a hired session guitarist. Great game. Not the greatest orchestration out there, but they really didn't need it with a full piece band, eh

I know we got some single producers that pulled this off, once again can't remember who. Alright time to revisit the FF musics

edit: FF IV (DS) Battle Theme - FFVII Battle theme - OK, so here we have two examples of an exhausting battle themes, yet maybe just because the beginning plays so often, and it's like pure crappy synth bass (on FF 4), the songs are actually pretty easy on the ears/move quite nicely

Well, the overworld theme is really good for both games, so I think FF4 or 7 (murr'can versions) count, however, even up to Golbez, I don't remember them ever pulling some shit like in the OP

Overworld Theme FF IV (DS)
 
GreatestHits said:
That's a good one, but that sounds so expensive!! That's like a whole band and a hired session guitarist. Great game. Not the greatest orchestration out there, but they really didn't need it with a full piece band, eh
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In terms of Etrian Odyssey, I greatly prefer the PC-88 style music, but I still do enjoy the orchestrated style of IV.

Example: Etrian Odyssey III - Music: The End of the Raging Waves vs. Etrian Odyssey IV - Music: Unrest - The End of Raging Winds
 
So to give a legitimate answer, I think that if you really want this done, things should be done similarly to Fire Emblem: Awakening, where the battle theme is a variation of the field theme and its a completely smooth transition (outside of bosses).
 
Has anyone mentioned Resonance of Fate? Each dungeon has a non-battle and battle version of the same track that seamlessly transitions back and forth. I thought it was a pretty neat feature when I played the game. I'm on my iPad or I'd post some examples.
 
No way, battle music is something that I consider a huge part of JRPGs. I would get so sick of hearing the same song without the battle music to break it up.

Good battle themes make you want to hear them even after 1000 times (like Persona 4).

I do like how Persona 4 Golden plays a different battle theme when you attack a shadow from the back before the battle starts.
 
I'm not sure it would be for the best, but in Xenoblade X I do wish normal enemies wouldn't cause the music to change. It's fine with bosses and tyrants, though.
 
BABY BABY BABY BABY YEAAAH

28105181.jpg


It doesn't usually annoy me, but P3 transition was so annoying that it almost single handedly soured me on the game.
 
ChrisD said:
You (plural you) can dislike Fire Emblem Awakening for everything it brought to the series, but its seamless music transitions were friggin' phenomenal.

For anyone who didn't play/doesn't know, every map theme had two versions: The "map" version that you hear while setting up your moves, watching characters play them out, etc., then you had a battle version for... well, battles. The music would phase right into the battle theme as one started, and phase out just as perfectly when the scuffle ended. Didn't matter where in the song, it always worked.



Edit: Two links for one of the songs, just as an example. What I'm saying is so great is lost in a simple Youtube video, but it still shows how they're two completely different songs while still being the same.
Conquest Theme
Conquest Theme (Ablaze)
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Came in here to say this.

My favourite is Chaos => Chaos Ablaze.
 
I'd love smooth transitions between battle and exploration music... like if your characters are wandering a dungeon with a spooky ambient riff, then suddenly a beat drops when monsters attack you.

The worst though is when you have separate battle music but when you return to the overworld/dungeon the music starts from scratch *cough* Ni No Kuni *cough*

squall211 said:
Has anyone mentioned Resonance of Fate? Each dungeon has a non-battle and battle version of the same track that seamlessly transitions back and forth. I thought it was a pretty neat feature when I played the game. I'm on my iPad or I'd post some examples.
Click to expand...

Loved the way the dynamic music worked in this game...
 
This goes a bit farther but in Phantasy Star 3 when you're in a battle, the music will change depending on how well the battle is going. Most people, including myself when I first played it, hate it but eventually it grew on me and I think it's' pretty cool.
 
No, I like it when they do it only so often. I heightens the effect. Although, there are moments in some JFPGs where I feel this effect would be so powerful yet the dev didn't take advantage.
 
FFXIII games did this great.

1) Different battle themes that are used depending on the areas you are in that swap.
2) Separate boss theme
3) BUT also there are areas in the game where the music remains the same on and off the battle ! In XIII-2 they even threw aggressive mix version of the location theme that would transition smoothly the moment an enemy spawns and it will then continue to play into the battle.

Basically a good mix of everything which meant a lot of variety.


One of the worst offenders is Ni No Kuni, one battle theme and it swaps all the time and it just happens to have one of the most annoying start for a battle theme with an annoying backing track too. It's a good piece of music on it's own but when you hear it everyime you go into a battle for 50 hours it becomes trash.
 
I don't tend to mind it that much, some games have it so that the music picks up where it left off when you're done fighting. Those that leave with with the same 30 second into repeating over and over and doing it hella wrong though.

FluxWaveZ said:
The games should take the music of that dungeon environment, and seamlessly transform them into a battle variation of the song during the transition into an encounter.
Click to expand...

This. More games with separate battle themes should do this. I really love when the music seamlessly blends like that, makes things feel more cohesive.
 
djtiesto said:
I'd love smooth transitions between battle and exploration music... like if your characters are wandering a dungeon with a spooky ambient riff, then suddenly a beat drops when monsters attack you.
Click to expand...

Nier's Lost Shrine used that setup fairly effectively - the ambient music was unaccompanied vocals, while the chromatic percussion and drums faded in when in combat. Though the really impressive uses of the layered music were mainly tied to scripted sequences there - the way the Eyrie's theme transitions from creepy ambiance to bombastic anthem was well done in particular, and the final dungeon of the game made fantastic use of the 'Shadowlord's Castle' motif, a single loop which undergoes instrumental transitions in nearly every room; adding and subtracting culminating layers.
 
SMT:Nocturne and Trails in the Sky:SC alone say "no" to this tyrrany.

AtomskEater said:
I don't tend to mind it that much, some games have it so that the music picks up where it left off when you're done fighting. Those that leave with with the same 30 second into repeating over and over and doing it hella wrong though.



This. More games with separate battle themes should do this. I really love when the music seamlessly blends like that, makes things feel more cohesive.
Click to expand...

That "pick up where it left off" is the only real solution here.
 
Of all the games to ask to get rid of the battle music, you choose Final Fantasy fucking X?

Everything about FFX's battle theme is perfect. The subdued drums and trumpets give off an atmosphere like you're underwater. The bubbly beat in the background is perfect for Tidus's character and the water motif present throughout the game. I can't imagine a universe where Tidus isn't flipping around to this music. It's such an integral part of the game and its presentation.

I get where you're coming from in the sense that the constant switch can get jarring, but it's a JRPG staple and part of the genre's appeal. An option to turn off the battle music couldn't hurt, but I wouldn't want it gone entirely.

Here's a better remix than the one in the HD collection by the way
 
It isn't like this is a JRPG thing only as plenty of WRPGs do this as well (The Witcher, Troika games, Fallout series, etc.). It mostly due to it being standard because it gets you in the mood. It only makes sense in a few games not to change the music such as the Souls games since you are constantly encountering things and the game doesn't want you to know when you are currently engaged with an enemy.
 
Two Words said:
This may seem like a nit picky thing, but it's something that has always bugged me about JRPGs and I'm curious if I'm in the minority here. A lot of JRPGs will have a moment in the game where the music stays the same in and out of battle. This is usually done because of a particular moment in the game. But it is so much better than playing the other 99% of the game and having the music constantly swap.

FFX- Zanarkand Ruins: https://youtu.be/63qqyYQDqZ8?t=64

FFVII- Bombing Mission: https://youtu.be/CBvnot7pkvg?t=74

And an example of a game doing it wrong

Persona 4: Heaven, Paradise Dungeon: https://youtu.be/wBNdWRh6kO4?t=249

I hope you like listening to the same first 20 seconds of the song. I'd rather just hear the music of the area through battle unless the battle itself is a special battle that will be taking a long time. Otherwise, you're just interrupting music constantly.
Click to expand...

All of those are energetic songs. And it also enhances those segments because the standard transition is ignored. It makes them special. Not every time or place needs that nor would most dungeon music make good battle music.
 
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