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[ethomaz]

It is not the final decision yet... just a hearing but it doesn't not look good for Epic like most in GAF expected.

The judge seemed to suggest that Epic's actions actually help justify Apple's defense of its App Store policies as a way to protect users from malicious software. "You did something, you lied about it by omission, by not being forthcoming. That's the security issue. That's the security issue!" she said. "There are a lot of people in the public who consider you guys heroes for what you guys did, but it's still not honest."

The judge was also "not particularly persuaded" by Epic's argument that forcing developers to use Apple's in-app payment system amounts to illegal "tying," a form of bundling that requires customers who want to buy a particular product to also purchase something else.

"Walled gardens have existed for decades," the judge said. "Nintendo has had a walled garden. Sony has had a walled garden. Microsoft has had a walled garden. What Apple's doing is not much different... It's hard to ignore the economics of the industry, which is what you're asking me to do."

Judge says Epic was 'not honest' when it bypassed Apple's payment system in Fortnite

A hearing on Epic's request for an injunction against Apple's removal of Fortnite from iOS App Store took place yesterday.

www.pcgamer.com

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

You mean EPIC's twitter tantrums didn't move the needle after all? Shockface.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

 

[Entroyp]

Judge must be an Apple fanboy

/s

 

[jigglet]

She must be old to refer to Nintendo first in her example. She should have said “Sony with their blazing fast SSD and fantastic first party lineup has a walled garden.”

Damn simpletons.

 

[ethomaz]

She must be old to refer to Nintendo first in her example. She should have said “Sony with their blazing fast SSD and fantastic first party lineup has a walled garden.”

Damn simpletons.

I know it is joke but in Brasil there is a project discussion about limiting Judge to 30 years old mininum.
I don't know how it is in US.

 

[lastmessiah]

Epic must have known they were going to lose this. Maybe they are going for "scorched earth" litigation.

 

[eyesabitdull]

Gotta hand it to the judge, she definitely knew a thing or two about gaming history when she pulled the walled garden comment on Epic.

 

[ethomaz]

Gotta hand it to the judge, she definitely knew a thing or two about gaming history when she pulled the walled garden comment on Epic.

Like I said in the previous thread what Epic wants from Apple opens a precedent to Nintendo, Sony, MS, etc (just listing the gaming industry ones because you know there is a lot of these in others industries)... it basically kills the closed system business for everybody.

Are people aright with not having iPhones, Roku, etc anymore?

 

[Kadayi]

Oof.

It's not a loss for Epic, but it's not a rolling start either, and however the decision on Epic's request for an injunction works out, the judge doesn't appear to be in any hurry to render it, as she gave no time frame on when it might be delivered. She also said that she'd prefer the actual lawsuit to be tried in front of a jury, and warned that because of her schedule, the case likely won't go to trial until July 2021.

 

[Geki-D]

I really don't see how Epic could think this would go their way. Epic is so blatantly in the wrong from a legal standpoint.

 

[sinnergy]

Tim is honest , the most honest sales man on earth, the universe!

This backfired ! But I saw that coming miles away.

 

[sn0man]

Epic lawyer: Game consoles are limited. You can’t play Xbox on a train.
Judge: I am aware the Nintendo switch exists.
Epic lawyer:

 

[MarkMe2525]

I agree with the spirit of epics stance, but no legal precedent to their argument.

 

[jigglet]

I know it is joke but in Brasil there is a project discussion about limiting Judge to 30 years old mininum.
I don't know how it is in US.

I think politicians and judges are generally way out of touch, but limiting it to 30...that sounds like a disaster lol

 

[Bonfires Down]

In Tim Sweeney's office:

 

[ethomaz]

I think politicians and judges are generally way out of touch, but limiting it to 30...that sounds like a disaster lol

The ideia I guess (I just read that recently) is that to be Judge you need some experience as lawyer.
Most lawyer start to work after university here that took 5 years minimum... so the lawyer start to do his job around 25 years old.

They are trying to make you having to work as lawyer for about 5 years before become a Judge.

It is a project so I don't know if it will be approved.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Haha, yeah, I don't think a lot of us are shocked by this in the slightest. GG Epic.

 

[Aggressive Carrot]

Epic got the wrong judge. She wasn't buying the walled garden argument. I didn't know judges were such nerds.

 

[MarkMe2525]

I don't know why people are rooting for apple. Imagine being able to download retro pi or xcloud on an iphone. I would actually buy one.

Epic will lose for sure, but we shouldn't be rooting for that to happen.

 

[-Arcadia-]

This is going to be remembered as the biggest disaster.

Clearly it was an attempt to #CancelApple, but the thing about people is that they’re really unpredictable. Staking your company’s short-term profits on whether you can whip up a social movement is really, really dumb.

Not to mention the way that they did it. Literally nobody believes Epic was just trying to cut prices for customers on Fortnite, and that this wasn’t a completely unnecessary attack, that asks for the absurd (Epic store on iOS or zero overhead to Apple).

 

[NinjaBoiX]

 

[lastmessiah]

I don't know why people are rooting for apple. Imagine being able to download retro pi or xcloud on an iphone. I would actually buy one.

Epic will lose for sure, but we shouldn't be rooting for that to happen.

if xCloud doesn't find its way to iOS, it could mean lost sales for Apple as people switch to Android to play games like Fallout, TES, etc. I think Apple knows this and will have to concede at some point.

 

[mikefrails]

Who views Epic as heroes lmao

 

[supernova8]

I don't know why people are rooting for apple. Imagine being able to download retro pi or xcloud on an iphone. I would actually buy one.

Epic will lose for sure, but we shouldn't be rooting for that to happen.

I'm not rooting for Apple necessarily but they have a position in the market. If someone wants a more open system they can get an Android device. There's a clear choice, you get what you implicitly ask for with Apple products. I have an iPhone 6S and it's great.

 

[elenapska]

the judge is not lying. It is sad that my iphone is also a gaming platform that I am not interested in posses, as a gaming platform sucks, the kind of games I like to play are not candy crush games. Realizing that Apple is going to block xcloud, stadia, luna, psn, really makes me want to move to android for my next phone

 

[cyberheater]

Yep. This is going exactly the way I thought it would do. Why the fuck are Epic even fighting this.

 

[ethomaz]

I don't know why people are rooting for apple. Imagine being able to download retro pi or xcloud on an iphone. I would actually buy one.

Epic will lose for sure, but we shouldn't be rooting for that to happen.

Rooting for what is right.

You have options like Android that are open.

Trying to make a closed system to open is really a bullshit argument... you buy in a closed system because it advantages over the open system.

For exemple in gaming industry if you make the PlayStation, Nintendo, etc open system it become just a PC.

 

[Hendrick's]

The simple answer here is if you care about freedom, you don't buy an iphone.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Rooting for what is right.

You have options like Android that are open.

Trying to make a closed system to open is really a bullshit argument... you buy in a closed system because it advantages over the open system.

For exemple in gaming industry if you make the PlayStation, Nintendo, etc open system it become just a PC.

Exactly. They don't even have nearly a monopoly on the mobile space, either.

Epic can set up their own version of EGS on Android if they so please and take 100% of the cut.

 

[Zoro7]

if xCloud doesn't find its way to iOS, it could mean lost sales for Apple as people switch to Android to play games like Fallout, TES, etc. I think Apple knows this and will have to concede at some point.

Lol no it won’t. What a ridiculous statement.

 

[MayauMiao]

Good. Epic really need to lose this big time. Using kids as fodder to get sympathy is disgusting.

 

[MayauMiao]

if xCloud doesn't find its way to iOS, it could mean lost sales for Apple as people switch to Android to play games like Fallout, TES, etc. I think Apple knows this and will have to concede at some point.

You really think people buy iPhones just to play games meant for consoles or PC?

 

[lastmessiah]

You really think people buy iPhones just to play games meant for consoles or PC?

No, of course not. But it's not unreasonable to assume that some aren't particularly attached to iOS and will not want to pass on the ability to play TES on a mobile phone.

 

[Warnen]

Judge clearly didn't get his weekly free games from Epic. Maybe a Vbuck money hat is in order.

 

[hemo memo]

EPIC WAS NOT HONEST!!!!!

 

[MoreJRPG]

Tim Sweeney is a giant man baby, Apple have their own issues but this looks good on him.

 

[BWJinxing]

Good, fuck epic and the walled garden shit they pull on the PC.

I'm rooting against Epic to waste their cash, but if was anyone. Else, I'd probably be behind them.

 

[SolidSlug]

"You enter a store, then you tell the store owner you will clear a shelf for your products, decide their price, and have customers pay you directly."

See how that goes.

Walled gardens are walled gardens, owned and operated by businesses. You have a choice: You can agree to the rules of the walled garden; you can go play in some other walled garden, or you can try and create your own walled garden.
Epic's attempt at using public pressure to change that was disingenuous at best.

 

[MayauMiao]

No, of course not. But it's not unreasonable to assume that some aren't particularly attached to iOS and will not want to pass on the ability to play TES on a mobile phone.

Apple would rather hang on to their policy than give in to a very niche group of people.

 

[Barnabot]

womp womp

poor epic

#epicdidnothingwrong

(but you can still make your own app store)

 

[Dr Bass]

Who views Epic as heroes lmao

The vast majority of the software engineering community. People who believe you should be able to install whatever you want on the computers that you own.

Google has already announced that Android 12 is going to focus on making it easier to use third party app stores. And of course "side-loading" (funny that we don't just use the standard english of "downloading software" to describe this) is possible on Android. Hopefully a change is coming. If this eventually forced Apple into doing the same thing there would be NO Epic lawsuit and all would be fine.

Google says Android 12 will make using third-party app stores easier

We’ll hear more about the changes later.

www.theverge.com

 

[mikefrails]

The vast majority of the software engineering community. People who believe you should be able to install whatever you want on the computers that you own.

Google has already announced that Android 12 is going to focus on making it easier to use third party app stores. And of course "side-loading" (funny that we don't just use the standard english of "downloading software" to describe this) is possible on Android. Hopefully a change is coming. If this eventually forced Apple into doing the same thing there would be NO Epic lawsuit and all would be fine.

Google says Android 12 will make using third-party app stores easier

We’ll hear more about the changes later.

www.theverge.com

You’re absolutely right but Epic did not do it on good faith. They wanted to cause a stir for their game, even if the message is a noble one.

 

[Dural]

No, of course not. But it's not unreasonable to assume that some aren't particularly attached to iOS and will not want to pass on the ability to play TES on a mobile phone.

They could just do as I did and buy a cheap used Android phone and dedicate it to gaming (emulators, xcloud, and native android games). I wouldn't want to use my daily driver for gaming anyway, it drains the battery too fast.

 

[Dr Bass]

You’re absolutely right but Epic did not do it on good faith. They wanted to cause a stir for their game, even if the message is a noble one.

Not necessarily arguing that point, I was just responding to the point of "who views Epic as heroes?" I didn't save the tweets, but back when it started I literally saw extremely notable programmers tweeting pretty much the exact words "Epic are heroes!"

Someone made the point they had to show injury for the lawsuit, hence getting kicked out on purpose, but that seems like it wasn't accurate given the judge's statements. I personally think Epic should restore the previous functionality of Fortnite for the good of their customers, but that doesn't mean I think Apple is right either. I should be able to install whatever I want on my iPhone at this point since both iOS and Android are general purpose computing machines that are perhaps even more integral to every day lives for most of the planet than "computers" ever were. If Google actually starts championing this feature as part of Android 12 it could force some hands.

Do people really want two of the biggest companies on the planet being able to decide what software people can run?

 

[Stryda]

Epic are in the wrong.

They deserve the pain they are in.

Apple ain’t no victims but a contract is a contract. I actually respect the hardball response from Apple.

 

[Dane]

The vast majority of the software engineering community. People who believe you should be able to install whatever you want on the computers that you own.

Google has already announced that Android 12 is going to focus on making it easier to use third party app stores. And of course "side-loading" (funny that we don't just use the standard english of "downloading software" to describe this) is possible on Android. Hopefully a change is coming. If this eventually forced Apple into doing the same thing there would be NO Epic lawsuit and all would be fine.

Google says Android 12 will make using third-party app stores easier

We’ll hear more about the changes later.

www.theverge.com

Judge is pretty on spot on the knowledge, it doesn't matter that iOS blocks apps outside of their store, it's their store and hardware, the user has the freedom to hack it and not be welcome to the iOS rules and use stuff outside of it that Apple doesn't support and don't have to give any warranty.

 

[SlicedBread3]

Do people really want two of the biggest companies on the planet being able to decide what software people can run?

I'd rather that than having governments deciding what products are allowed to be made. At least this way it allows a third competitor to enter the market with a unique selling point.

 

[Dr Bass]

Judge is pretty on spot on the knowledge, it doesn't matter that iOS blocks apps outside of their store, it's their store and hardware, the user has the freedom to hack it and not be welcome to the iOS rules and use stuff outside of it that Apple doesn't support and don't have to give any warranty.

This is just not necessarily true, and most programmers don't agree with this. I assume you are not in the industry.

Ok answer this. Does Microsoft have the right to lock down Windows and not allow ANY installs of software outside of the Windows store? No direct downloads, no steam, no nothing? Does Apple have the right to lock down MacOS so that ALL software installs have to go through the Mac App Store? Simple yes or no on both of these.

Do you know why Microsoft was nailed by the justice department in the late 90s?

I'd rather that than having governments deciding what products are allowed to be made. At least this way it allows a third competitor to enter the market with a unique selling point.

Well this is a complete non sequitur. Wtf are you talking about?

 

[iJudged]

GREED. I don't know nor care who's at fault here, the fact is, both companies are making so much fucking money, to lie and be petty about this is just pathetic and they should be ashamed of them selves.

This say a lot about both of these corporations. ugh