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[LordCBH]

They have the right if they want, Microsoft was inclining towards that with Windows 8, especially its app sections that couldn't have folders explored without some configuration, this is even something that Tim alerted back in the days, back when Epic had lots of respect and stuff from gamers. Reception of the overall product was so bad that they decided to go back with old style in Windows 10.

"Do you know why Microsoft was nailed by the justice department in the late 90s?"

if you're talking about the Internet Explorer case, that was the most bullshit anti trust case i've ever heard, Microsoft decided to include a browser to their OS, what was so wrong on that? And it was free, when Netscape was selling licenses to for profit business after backpedalling of being free for anyone and sold suites for profit.

the entire problem with the Microsoft case was it centered largely on the bullshit terms they dictated to OEM’s while controlling over 90% of the market For Operating Systems. No one cares that they put IE for free on it, what mattered was the terms they forced on OEMs in order to pre-install Windows on their machines they sell, terms that were designed to put entire other competitors in the web surfing business out of business.

I don’t know why people keep bringing it up because it is entirely different to the situation today in every way

 

[A.Romero]

the entire problem with the Microsoft case was it centered largely on the bullshit terms they dictated to OEM’s while controlling over 90% of the market For Operating Systems. No one cares that they put IE for free on it, what mattered was the terms they forced on OEMs in order to pre-install Windows on their machines they sell, terms that were designed to put entire other competitors in the web surfing business out of business.

I don’t know why people keep bringing it up because it is entirely different to the situation today in every way

Because people only spew hot takes without actually putting in the time to try to understand how all this works. They think their wishful thinking is the same as how things should be.

It's not that difficult. A couple of hours reading and everyone can grasp it.

 

[godhandiscen]

So your logic is that by allowing choice, you remove choice?

My argument is that there is choice already in an ecosystem that offers open platforms and closed platforms. Meanwhile, a win for EPIC would force all platforms to be open, thus removing the incentives of platform holders in nurturing their platforms and eventually removing the choice for those who enjoyed the benefits of walled gardens.

 

[oagboghi2]

"Walled gardens have existed for decades," the judge said. "Nintendo has had a walled garden. Sony has had a walled garden. Microsoft has had a walled garden. What Apple's doing is not much different... It's hard to ignore the economics of the industry, which is what you're asking me to do."

Goddamn spitting the truth like

 

[oagboghi2]

Just because those are the big names doesn't mean that they will be the only ones benefiting from it.

Also why are you quoting customer choice as being something that is to be ridiculed or mocked? Is this where we are now?

Dude, you are the one who wants to take away consumer choice?

Why can't I choose a closed ecosystem. Why do you want the court to come in and essentially ban that choice

 

[Chiggs]

Glad to see shifty Tim Sweeney and his Red China company getting knocked down a peg.

Here’s hoping their losses are catastrophic.

 

[In Your Vase]

I second Chiggs post but want to see more flames erupting from Sweeney's body as the cash he used to dominate the market for his shitty platform becomes nothing but fuel for his pyre

 

[Edgelord79]

Dude, you are the one who wants to take away consumer choice?

Why can't I choose a closed ecosystem. Why do you want the court to come in and essentially ban that choice

You can choose whatever you want. I wouldn't worry too much as it looks pretty clear Epic won't won't win. Even if they do win, you can still choose Apple and the app store instead of other stores. As for consoles, just because Apple may get ruled against (shocked if this happens), doesn't mean that consoles are fair game necessarily legally. I'm not a lawyer.

Here's the thing though. When console games go full digital and no physical media is supported, then watch the prices skyrocket. The choice of physical media is the only thing holding $100+ (US) digital standard editions.

All of a sudden having a little storefront competition on your console store front wouldn't be so bad would it?

This is going to be moot in 10 years any way when everything is a subscription. You won't own anything. It won't be in a publishers best interest to sell you the game outright.

 

[Trimesh]

So I take it that Tim Sweeney is going to open up the market for Fortnite cosmetics to anyone that wants to sell them too? Or doesn't his "logic" extend that far?

 

[LavitzSlambert]

A lot of people seem to miss an important nuance in this issue.

iOS devices are walled, yes. Apple makes the devices and you can easily argue Apple then therefore set the rules. People have equated it to going into a shop and saying 'I'd like to buy this please' and demanding they accept some different currency or payment method to what the store accepts and then throwing a fit when they say no.

That is not the right analogy.

In this scenario Apple is not the shop. You are not buying Fortnite items from Apple, you are buying them from Epic, or you are buying your subscription from Spotify etc etc.

So in that sense if you wanted an analogy you could liken Apple's position to that of a street market or shopping mall owner, and Epic, Spotify and all the others upset at Apple are the people running the stalls or the shops in that market/mall.

You would never expect the owner of a mall to say to it's shops you must accept only our payment methods and you cannot price your products differently to cover our additional costs and you can't tell people they can pay in other ways outside of the mall and therefore ban click and collect models.

There's no rationale for that.

There is rationale for taking a percentage as commission for being the mall owner and attracting customers and maintaining the place. So a fee is totally justified - but not the price fixing and payment method issues mentioned before. Those restrictions are unequivocally wrong and, buzzword of the year, anti-consumer.

The mall analogy is flawed. This is trying to open up a lemonade stand inside an existing store and declaring you have the right to sell that lemonade without paying rent for the space or privilege of doing business. Why? Because that’s where customers are and damn it, you want to sell it to that store’s thirsty shoppers!

That’s perfectly fine if you have an agreement and you abide by the rules, and that’s how things were for a long time. But now Epic decides they don’t like those rules. Ok, then leave the App Store. You can’t have it both ways, and that’s exactly what Epic is trying to get with their legal action. Thankfully they’re bumbling idiots and are doing more harm to themselves than anything else. It shows the true colors of who they really are.

They can keep their free games, the brand Epic is rotten to the core and I’ll never give them so much as the privilege of a website hit as long as Sweeney is at the helm and they keep pulling shit like this.

 

[aries_71]

So this will strengthen the walled concept forever. And somehow is good news?

 

[VincentMatts]

What does being like a PC have to do with being a closed or open platform? Are you saying that a PC is required to be an open platform? If I wanted to create my own OS and put it on my own hardware and make it a closed platform what exactly is keeping me from doing it? Apple built their hardware and put their OS on it, who is Epic to tell them what to do with their OS and hardware?




They've already made a completely locked down Windows, Windows 10 S.

Yes but again, thats not the only option on windows. Theres also the unlocked version of windows if you arent happy with that. iOS has one way in, one way out. No other options. Not the same situation.

 

[ethomaz]

A lot of people seem to miss an important nuance in this issue.

iOS devices are walled, yes. Apple makes the devices and you can easily argue Apple then therefore set the rules. People have equated it to going into a shop and saying 'I'd like to buy this please' and demanding they accept some different currency or payment method to what the store accepts and then throwing a fit when they say no.

That is not the right analogy.

In this scenario Apple is not the shop. You are not buying Fortnite items from Apple, you are buying them from Epic, or you are buying your subscription from Spotify etc etc.

So in that sense if you wanted an analogy you could liken Apple's position to that of a street market or shopping mall owner, and Epic, Spotify and all the others upset at Apple are the people running the stalls or the shops in that market/mall.

You would never expect the owner of a mall to say to it's shops you must accept only our payment methods and you cannot price your products differently to cover our additional costs and you can't tell people they can pay in other ways outside of the mall and therefore ban click and collect models.

There's no rationale for that.

There is rationale for taking a percentage as commission for being the mall owner and attracting customers and maintaining the place. So a fee is totally justified - but not the price fixing and payment method issues mentioned before. Those restrictions are unequivocally wrong and, buzzword of the year, anti-consumer.

The shop doesn't sell it own items (there is some cases it does but we are talking about general shops here) lol
It sell item from their suppliers (Epic) just like Apple does.

A digital store is not different from a physical store except you sell digital items instead physical items.

BTW you are wrong about that you get the item from Epic and not Apple... the item is in the Apple Servers and their are supplying it to you via download.... all the store infra and cost are on Apple side (just like a physical store).

Your twisted made up analogy is very weird and not based in how stores works at all.

 

[ethomaz]

So your logic is that by allowing choice, you remove choice?

Why do you want to remove my choice to choose a closed ecosystem?

Both needs to exists like it is.
A closed ecosystem won't remove your choice for a open ecosystem.

 

[IFireflyl]

The court date has been set for May 3rd, 2021. That means Epic is hosed for at least the next 7 months. I love it.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Epic went about it wrong, but they have a case. iOS is more like a PC than it is a gaming console. You can email, phone, games, texting, office, work, etc etc does that remind you of a console or a pc?

Thats what were going to find out in this case.

I don't know. I'd say Apple products are more consoles than PCs at this point. A PC is just a random grouping of parts that anyone can assemble on their own. The iPhone is a carefully crafted, bespoke piece of hardware for which Apple funded the R&D bill. The innovations they've made over the years have helped to create their ecosystem (including it being a walled garden).