I apologize for being wrong. I'm just saying that stuff will improve for PS4 as well (even if not by a lot), just like with PS3.
For some posters to say otherwise, is just foolish.
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"June Xbox One software dev kit gives devs access to more GPU bandwidth."
- Thread starter Bgamer90
- Start date
I apologize for being wrong. I'm just saying that stuff will improve for PS4 as well (even if not by a lot), just like with PS3.
For some posters to say otherwise, is just foolish.
LittleJohnny
Banned
I can't find the specific article I was reading, now google searches are returning way too much garbage with everyone cross reporting the same bs. But I believe it was derived from this:
"Xbox One has a conservative 10 per cent time-sliced reservation on the GPU for system processing, he explained. This is used both for the GPGPU processing for Kinect and for the rendering of concurrent system content such as snap mode.
"The current reservation provides strong isolation between the title and the system and simplifies game development - strong isolation means that the system workloads, which are variable, won't perturb the performance of the game rendering. In the future, we plan to open up more options to developers to access this GPU reservation time while maintaining full system functionality."
Although it went something along the lines about MS showing developers other ways to use features such as voice commands... hmm, maybe Cortana/cloud?
Correct me if I'm wrong... but don't the Compute Units (CU's) in the GPU do all of the heavy lifting in terms of raw rendering capability?
So the PS4 has 50% more CU's than the Xbox One. To my knowledge the Xbox One can't unlock more of these via any sort of software update. Hasn't this always been the key differential in terms of GPU?
So the PS4 has 50% more CU's than the Xbox One. To my knowledge the Xbox One can't unlock more of these via any sort of software update. Hasn't this always been the key differential in terms of GPU?
djblackice
Member
What?
LittleJohnny
Banned
If the PS4 was a car with more horsepower than Xbox One, picture the Xbox One having 10% more weight due to Kinect baggage. That would only make things worse. Now MS dumped the baggage and is now 10% lighter than before. HP difference is still there, however the 10% difference comes from resources that weren't available prior to the update. Capice?
The reservation was in addition to the 50% deficit in terms of CUs.
As for unlocking units via software, I believe AMD is manufacturing the chips and supplying them (including fusing off extra functional units) to MS. FWIW leaving functional units (more than required) will also increase the TDP, which its essential to fuse the extra ones off.
Chobel
Member
If you're talking about that then this is the original source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-complete-xbox-one-interview
And that article said they are planing to do that, doesn't mean that they achieved that. Personally, I don't believe they will ever achieve that, at least not for all the games.
Ok so its freed up some existing GPU resources, not added new ones.
LittleJohnny
Banned
No, it was from todays news, something about the new dev kits and features that they're not quite ready to announce. Maybe E3?
Chobel
Member
The text you posted is taken from that DF article though.
Militant17
Member
Serious question here. Wasn't the 10% reserve also for the OS overlay itself, voice commands and snap feature? So they really couldn't have handed back the entire 10% reserve could they?
LittleJohnny
Banned
Right. 10% were reserved for Kinect functionality. You can do gesture functions without affecting games, however it made little sense when games didn't use Kinect functions at all, what would be the point to have that reservation. Now developers can use that extra 10% instead of being forced to leave that 10% alone.
LittleJohnny
Banned
I know, I said that maybe it was derived from that article. I don't remember if they were direct quotes from MS. I read it on my cell on my way home from work today. Let me check engadget since I have the app.
That would be correct. There is no secret sauce here - just what was stuck at the bottom of the sauce bottle that microsoft decided it can scape out, having seen how much sauce the PS4 gives.
That article also explained how they planned to get there...
"In the future, we plan to open up more options to developers to access this GPU reservation time while maintaining full system functionality.
To facilitate this, in addition to asynchronous compute queues, the Xbox One hardware supports two concurrent render pipes. The two render pipes can allow the hardware to render title content at high priority while concurrently rendering system content at low priority. The GPU hardware scheduler is designed to maximise throughput and automatically fills "holes" in the high-priority processing. This can allow the system rendering to make use of the ROPs for fill, for example, while the title is simultaneously doing synchronous compute operations on the Compute Units."
LukasTaves
Member
Before this there was a reserve, whether the system was using or not. Now there's something more like of a QoS in place, the system finds holes in the game where gpu usage is down and put system tasks in that hole.
But it appears that's only for games that opt in to this mode, though those who don't should still see some improvements because the reserve went down too.
El-Pistolero
Member
Keeping features implies he was not referring to ALL THE FEATURES, otherwise he would have said so.
Glad they're looking to improve, but 10%?
Just another reason I regret buying both systems at launch. My PS4 game collection is crushing my XB1 collection.. Due to most of the multiplatform games performing better on PS4.
I'm sorry, but 10% isn't going to make me buy a non exclusive title on xb1 when I can buy it for the ps4 (like I've done for AC:4 & WD)
I'll wait to hear more, but as of now, this doesn't improve my expectations. Also, makes my Kinect feel even more useless lol voice commands aside
Just another reason I regret buying both systems at launch. My PS4 game collection is crushing my XB1 collection.. Due to most of the multiplatform games performing better on PS4.
I'm sorry, but 10% isn't going to make me buy a non exclusive title on xb1 when I can buy it for the ps4 (like I've done for AC:4 & WD)
I'll wait to hear more, but as of now, this doesn't improve my expectations. Also, makes my Kinect feel even more useless lol voice commands aside
You regret buying both systems at launch because you bought mutiplatform games for the same console? Isn't the reason you'd buy multiple consoles to play the exclusives?
Chobel
Member
High/low proirity also means that whenever there's conflict in resources, low priority actions will have to take a hit in their performance. This making "full system functionality" working only sometimes when there's enough holes/resources..
This is my problem with their solution, I don't think MS can predict if there's enough holes or not to do some of kinect/system stuff. Those holes will depend on the game, what if the there's no enough holes?
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I'll do more research on it, but for now I'll take your word for it.
Apologies LittleJohnny.
Garrett 2U
Member
Why would you buy both consoles if you only judge them by the multiplatform games...?
One is going to preform better/worse than the other.
funkystudent
Member
800p here we come!
But I do wonder how much they can strip back from the kinect / OS partition. Isnt being able to snap apps probably a big part of this and also a huge part of the OS that they probably wont toss out any time soon for a few extra lines of resolution?
But I do wonder how much they can strip back from the kinect / OS partition. Isnt being able to snap apps probably a big part of this and also a huge part of the OS that they probably wont toss out any time soon for a few extra lines of resolution?
...Scatter...
Banned
I know I'm not the only one that cringed and got pissed of at the XBOX One reveal when they detailed the hardware specs. I just shook my head when the Kinect reservation was revealed later, further exposing how they weakened an already compromised hardware set.
It just felt wrong. It wasn't XBOX. The XBOX brand was all about delivering superior spec'ed hardware in the console space and became popular because it merged this power with superior online gameplay and interconnectivity. XBOX LIVE was the ecosystem where you could play with your friends and almost feel like you were in the same room.
Don Mattrick (i'll just lay the blame here, though surely there were a lot of YES men) saw the money that Nintendo was printing on the Wii and tried to go after that market instead of capitalizing on the strategy that got the XBOX where it was. It was a betrayal to the XBOX brand and you could feel the simultaneous groans across the gaming world when the details of the XBOX One were released.
This little step to remove this 10% reservation is not going to solve the XBOX One's problems that Mattrick saddled the console with. They won't be able to fully fix this until next generation with (thank god) Phil at the helm during the design process. But for now, this small little step will help and Phil appears to be doing his damnedest to right the ship by doing things he CAN control, which is primarily on the games and services side of the experience. I fully expect MS to drive for content, value and experiences the rest of this gen and then try to recover their identity next generation by going back to building a powerful console with more modest and less expensive attempts at courting the non traditional gaming market. The Kinect was way too expensive of a causal peripheral in terms of cost to build and cost to system resources to make it function. The return was not worth the investment to say the least.
Hopefully, lesson learned for MS. Sony sure learned their lesson from last gen and got the right people in place to turn the ship around even with more limited resources. We need to applaud them for that (and we're doing so by buying a metric fuck ton of the consoles).
As an owner of both systems there is much to look forward to! Many great games and experiences ahead of us! As we begin to wash the stink off the first year post reveal, the light appears to be getting brighter with lots of interesting title announcements! Project Beast. Horizon II. The Order. Halo. Destiny. The Division. Uncharted 4. Quantum Break. Sunset Overdrive. And many more still unannounced games waiting for us in the wings over the next year. It's a good time to be a gamer...even if the start was a little rocky!
It just felt wrong. It wasn't XBOX. The XBOX brand was all about delivering superior spec'ed hardware in the console space and became popular because it merged this power with superior online gameplay and interconnectivity. XBOX LIVE was the ecosystem where you could play with your friends and almost feel like you were in the same room.
Don Mattrick (i'll just lay the blame here, though surely there were a lot of YES men) saw the money that Nintendo was printing on the Wii and tried to go after that market instead of capitalizing on the strategy that got the XBOX where it was. It was a betrayal to the XBOX brand and you could feel the simultaneous groans across the gaming world when the details of the XBOX One were released.
This little step to remove this 10% reservation is not going to solve the XBOX One's problems that Mattrick saddled the console with. They won't be able to fully fix this until next generation with (thank god) Phil at the helm during the design process. But for now, this small little step will help and Phil appears to be doing his damnedest to right the ship by doing things he CAN control, which is primarily on the games and services side of the experience. I fully expect MS to drive for content, value and experiences the rest of this gen and then try to recover their identity next generation by going back to building a powerful console with more modest and less expensive attempts at courting the non traditional gaming market. The Kinect was way too expensive of a causal peripheral in terms of cost to build and cost to system resources to make it function. The return was not worth the investment to say the least.
Hopefully, lesson learned for MS. Sony sure learned their lesson from last gen and got the right people in place to turn the ship around even with more limited resources. We need to applaud them for that (and we're doing so by buying a metric fuck ton of the consoles).
As an owner of both systems there is much to look forward to! Many great games and experiences ahead of us! As we begin to wash the stink off the first year post reveal, the light appears to be getting brighter with lots of interesting title announcements! Project Beast. Horizon II. The Order. Halo. Destiny. The Division. Uncharted 4. Quantum Break. Sunset Overdrive. And many more still unannounced games waiting for us in the wings over the next year. It's a good time to be a gamer...even if the start was a little rocky!
He merely states that he will only buy multiplatform games for the PS4. As one with the luxury of having both consoles, it makes perfect sense for him.
Yes, of course exclusiveness is the main reason. But owning a ms console last gen, my friends list is larger.. I have 3 friends on psn, and most of my games on it.
As far as exclusivity, I played titanfall for a week and never touched it again.
Infamous SS was great visually, but I beat the game in like 5 hours, played both evil and good sides.. But after you beat it, there's nothing left to do in the lifeless city of Seattle
Mlb the show is by far my favorite of the exclusives, but having such few friends on it, I don't get to play my friends online.
And back to the multiplatform games, even though it was revealed early on that the ps4 would be the more powerful system, little did I know there would be such a disparity between them.
But let's not get too off topic. 10% isn't going to make a noticeable difference. A few extra fps on an already locked 30? Going from 792p to 870p? (Lol)
I'm hoping this 10% extra GPU bandwidth does something, but in terms of comparison.. We probably won't notice much improvement in games that are already released, and possibly see minuscule improvements on upcoming games taking advantage of this "boost"
Edit:
Exactly. Thank you
Good post.
HORRORSHØW
Member
GoofsterStud
Member
They will just make it so you can't snap the titles that use the 10%.
NickFire
Member
It might really be a ten percent increase of what is already allocated to games, leaving a small amount left over for snap, as opposed to ten percent of total gpu.
Militant17
Member
If they did this I'd be pretty disappointed. I mean every game eventually will take that extra 10% and the feature will become redundant.
It seems like a bad idea to remove features (if it is happening) for this. The Xbone is never going to match the horsepower of the PS4 regardless of what Microsoft does, at the end of the day there is only so much they can dance around having a weaker GPU and memory bandwidth bottlenecks. Microsoft needs to do something different with their system so it doesn't matter, like what Nintendo has been doing with the Wii and Wii U.
No one really cares that those systems were the weakest and it was never a discussion, we all knew. Admit defeat in the raw power front, and do something unique that your competitors can't. Find a way to make HDMI In useful for non-cable viewers. Find a way to make snap and the more robust OS actually matter to gamers. Put that reserve to good use.
I can't tell Microsoft what those features should be, but I can tell them that no matter what happens the Xbone is going to end up with worse performing/looking multi platform games. Bring unique content and functionality to the platform and no one will care.
No one really cares that those systems were the weakest and it was never a discussion, we all knew. Admit defeat in the raw power front, and do something unique that your competitors can't. Find a way to make HDMI In useful for non-cable viewers. Find a way to make snap and the more robust OS actually matter to gamers. Put that reserve to good use.
I can't tell Microsoft what those features should be, but I can tell them that no matter what happens the Xbone is going to end up with worse performing/looking multi platform games. Bring unique content and functionality to the platform and no one will care.
condompickle
Banned
xbone is fine at 720p idk why ya'll complaining. this fuckin bug man.
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Proelite
Member
Or titles that want to use the extra 10% must run at lower resolution in snap mode.
When title is minimized because snap, the title gives up >= 10% of the system horsepower in exchange for the ability to use the 10% during full screen mode.
The GPU resources are fixed, there's only so many transistors that can turn on at the same time. PS4 has a lot more of them, much more.
What we are discussing here is software efficiency that allow developers access to turning on more transistors at the same time.
So, to summise.
XbOne, currently less transistors and software that doesn't allow access to them all by design and is inefficient at turning them all on.
PS4, Many more transistors and software that is less inefficient at turning them all on but improvements will be made.
I thought I heard otherwise about snap and voice commands. could be wrong, though.
Chobel
Member
Just making sure. Is that your own thought or that's really the way MS are going to let dev use that 10%?
I know you're an insider, so I can't figure out if that an opinion or not.
So where does MS state anything about the PS4? Why is it being brought up at all when the sole tweet mentions improved tools/performance for better games on Xbox One. Insightful tidbit but don't see anything about the percentage gained or how it's going to reach parity. So many pages arguing about hypothetical result, with some Spencer bashing. Good grief.
MasterLeePhD
Member
Same shit, different day.
Good post. The XBO is a gimped console from its inception, unfortunately. The power gap between it and the PS4 cannot be bridged no matter the marketing/PR fluff floating around. However, MS will attempt to remain competitive by offering a robust OS, decked with features and content (this is why they have the beta focus group and the monthly released updates). This will be sufficient to capture the hearts of the Xbox fanboys/girls, but will it be enough for the general crowd... that's remains to be seen.
Technically it also means that the basic comparisons illustrating the difference between the two consoles was too generous to the Xb1 originally. Now it is getting back to that original point
MastaKilla
Member
Sony to respond by removing all features except game playing and thereby freeing all 8gb of memory for better games.
I have no idea what any of this means.
I have no idea what any of this means.
LittleJohnny
Banned
Who's expecting miracles? mention some names or you're just spitting into the wind.
PS4 had up to a 60% advantage in compute power over Xbox One. Originally XBO had 1.28TF vs 1.84, but with a 10% reduction going to Kinect, it was really 1.15TF! Now you can really see why there was so much complaints going around. 1.15TF vs 1.84 = 60%
MS first effort was to boost the clock speed which brought up performance from 1.28TF up to 1.31TF, however with Kinect sucking 10% it was still only 1.18TF vs 1.84TF, a 56% difference.
Now with Kinect no longer a burden, Xbox One can enjoy its full 1.31TF vs 1.84TF = 40% difference. Sooo...
Since the reveal XBO has gone from a 60% difference down to a 40% difference as it stands today. This is purely from a resources standpoint, not looking at any driver optimizations which we've heard were very poor initially.
Everyone agree with this assessment? if so, XBO has made some good strides, there's no denying that. From my understanding that's all that's being said, I don't see anyone expecting miracles aside of parody posts.
velociraptor
Junior Member
1.17 -> 1.84 = 0.67 TFlops difference
1.31 -> 1.84 = 0.53 TFlops difference
Xbox net gain = 0.14 Tflops