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Juror says Zimmerman went "above and beyond" and has "learned a good lesson"

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I'm saddened this is just another case of a dumb jury. Her answers scream guilty of manslaughter and yet...it was just an unfortunate situation where both are to blame. In fact she seems to blame TM more than GZ which is so fucking hurtful to hear. They really did a great job assassinating his character. Sickening.

And how in the world do you talk 3 people out of a guilty charge that quick? Even one of them voted murder 2! They must have done wonders talking those 3 women out of it. But guess that isn't hard to do when your hubby is lawyer and you have a book deal to worry about. Fucking sucks.

But what can we do? The system sucks. FL sucks. TM is dead. GZ is probably using left over donation money for his groceries and sadly we have no justice. Whether you believe his BS tale (one of many) or not he deserved jail time.

Please stop trolling with the lack of evidence bullshit. They proved the killing was unjustified. Sorry, but you're either ignorant about the case, a gun freak who thinks it a-ok to pop bullets into people whenever you please or just straight up racist. There is NOTHING to support GZ claim of self-defense besides GZ himself. And why anyone would believe a person who shoot an unarmed teen walking home is beyond me.
 

Savitar

Member
Watching that all I could think of was how much this woman wanted to be best friends with George.

She was certainly on a first name basis about him enough, she didn't even seem to want to say Trayvon at all.
 

smerfy

Banned
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

Most crimes have an approximately 2 to 1 ratio between white and black. Some have a 3 to 1 ratio. Murder and Manslaughter is about 1-1.

cool, using statistics that put all Hispanics in the "white" category.

even so, as a likelihood compared to population, African Americans still commit more crime.

13% of the population accounting for over 20% of total crime.

I'm just saying that your links don't help your case. 13% of the population commit as much murder as ~75%?
 

Mr. Patch

Member
So... I want to know something...

How would Frank Taaffe (Zimmerman's friend) be able to know that that the jury was locked at 5-1 for acquittal at one point like the juror said in this interview?

He said this on HLN.
 
As I make her out to be? I dropped the url and said nothing.

It's been brought up in this thread and the other thread showing how it was bullshit that she was convicted and Zimmerman walked. Zimmerman walking is understandable (legally only, he should be in jail for manslaughter) and her sentence is far to harsh. I was just stating that she deserved the conviction in that case, she had the ability to leave but came back and fired. I'll agree with everyone that she shouldn't have gotten twenty years, hell three might be too harsh but in that case the conviction itself had merit.
 

Mumei

Member
I know the jurors promised this was not about race AT ALL, but it's just such a fun mind-boggling exercise to flip the races in this story and think about everything around it in that light. Oh that big black dude that kid the little white kid? He learned his lesson let's not go crazy here.

Mm. I was thinking about that again earlier today, and I think it does help to consider people's assumptions, explanations, and portrayals of both parties in that light.
 
Does anyone have a link to a great summary of the trial? Was it possible for reasonable people to acquit?

usa-george-zimmerman-trial.jpg


Seriously, can people stop hating on the jurors?
 

Figboy79

Aftershock LA
Does anyone have a link to a great summary of the trial? Was it possible for reasonable people to acquit?

Honestly, it's really hard to say.

I think I'm a reasonable dude, but despite the fact that the State didn't have much to work with, I feel like they showed a lot of inconsistencies and holes in Zimmerman's stories, backed by some pretty compelling forensic evidence (ie, Zimmerman's wounds being incredibly superficial and non-lifethreatening, the lack of DNA evidence on Trayvon's fists, etc). But who knows.
 

MThanded

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
So... I want to know something...

How would Frank Taaffe (Zimmerman's friend) be able to know that that the jury was locked at 5-1 for acquittal at one point like the juror said in this interview?

He said this on HLN.
Yeah I want to know this too. Her interview confirms there must have been a juror leak.
 

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
usa-george-zimmerman-trial.jpg


Seriously, can people stop hating on the jurors?

sure... but she's kinda making it very difficult not to.

I mean c'mon:
boy of color
"george"
learned his lesson
i feel sorry for the situation trayvon got himself into
wouldnt mind having him on neighborhood watch again
trayvon threw the first punch (even though there's no proof)
 

MThanded

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
I dont know if this warrants a new topic but


Wow!!!!


Cnn breaking news alert
I mean this is probably standard. They don't want people speaking for them. I don't think we need a new topic.

Her views are hers and I think they want to distance themselves from those views.
 

Cloudy

Banned
I feel this case would have gone differently if the prosecution charged manslaughter and acknowledged that even if Trayvon started the physical altercation, he was provoked and didn't deserve to die.

Charging murder 2 and trying to make the kid out to be some angel effectively allowed the defense to put the victim on trial. The fact the a juror is more sympathetic to the killer and not the killed shows what a terrible job the prosecution did of humanizing Trayvon.
 
usa-george-zimmerman-trial.jpg


Seriously, can people stop hating on the jurors?

Not sure what you are getting at.
Zimmerman, without a doubt, murdered an innocent and unarmed teen.
It is a simple fact that can easily be concluded to with other simple facts.
Facts do not give way to reasonable doubt.

The issue is, those facts were never properly presented or represented at the trial.


The other issue is what set the entire ordeal in motion were simply the laws of Florida. The laws that allowed Zimmerman to self appoint himself as watch captain, the laws that let Zimmerman get away with his previous crimes, the laws that let Zimmerman conceal and carry a gun with hollow point rounds, the laws that allowed Zimmerman to not only profile other people, but follow and pursue them. The same laws also allowed Zimmerman to hunt down and kill an unarmed teenager in Florida.
 

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
Something you would expect from a white conservative.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/14/newt-gingrich-van-jones-spar-over-zimmerman-verdict/

There are truth bombs there, but from the other guy.

What did he say?

it wasn't that interview. and I would say its a little jaded to say "just something a white conservative would say" when a good majority of old, white conservatives are bordering overt racist to closet racist.

highlights

agreed with someone else that said race affects almost every decision in criminal justice system

said you would have to be blind to america that we still have very deep elements of racism that go all the way back to the 1800s.

Says he wants congress to re-evaulate criminal justice system and prisons that have "created graduate schools of criminality" in locking people up that are increasing their inability to function in society.

wants to focus on the extraordinary rise in gangs.

Civility - restore civility to public spaces where we see each other as genuine neighbors, wants this event to bring people together instead of just another event where people yell at each other.
 

Yoritomo

Member
cool, using statistics that put all Hispanics in the "white" category.

even so, as a likelihood compared to population, African Americans still commit more crime.

13% of the population accounting for over 20% of total crime.

I'm just saying that your links don't help your case. 13% of the population commit as much murder as ~75%?

Immigrants are usually more law abiding than their white neighbors.

So you should be grateful they get lumped in there. http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/his-panic/
 

solomon

Member
Jesus Christ I need to leave Florida, more specifically Miami. We are probably the most backwards "Major City" in the U.S
 

LAMBO

Member
Something you would expect from a white conservative.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/14/newt-gingrich-van-jones-spar-over-zimmerman-verdict/

There are truth bombs there, but from the other guy.

My parents told me that if a guy has a gun you don't resist. Your life is worth more than any property, and you can't use your fists against a bullet. When a guy brandished a gun to my neighbor's son to steal his iphone, he didn't fight back, he gave up the phone and he's alive today. Would you tell your kids to fight back against a guy with gun?!?!!? Chances are you'll live if you don't' fight back against a gun.

When a stranger with a gun comes up to you YES YOU SPREAD EAGLE, well if you want to live.
 
Not sure what you are getting at.
Zimmerman, without a doubt, murdered an innocent and unarmed teen.
It is a simple fact that can easily be concluded to with other simple facts.
Facts do not give way to reasonable doubt.

The issue is, those facts were never properly presented or represented at the trial.

You clearly don't know what I'm getting at because what you said it completely irrelevant. You do realize the burden of proof is on the prosecutor to prove it was not self-defense, right? Not guilty was the only right decision because of this.
 

MThanded

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
Jurors distance themselves from B37
"The opinions of Juror B-37, expressed on the Anderson Cooper show were her own, and not in any way representative of the jurors listed below," said the statement, signed by Jurors B51, B76, E6 and E40..

Juror B37 said the actions of Zimmerman, a former neighborhood watch volunteer, and Trayvon Martin both led to the teenager's fatal shooting last year, but that Zimmerman didn't actually break the law. The juror has said she plans to write a book about her experience.

The four other jurors said in their statement that Martin's death weighed on them.

"Serving on this jury has been a highly emotional and physically draining experience for each of us," the statement said. "The death of a teenager weighed heavily on our hearts but in the end we did what the law required us to do."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...-b37_n_3608057.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003
 

Derwind

Member

Well yeah, B37 didn't exactly do herself any justice by the way she phrased here words and the way she reasoned the case. Sure she was trying to emphasize she was distraught and that it wasn't easy to come to the verdict but she made it clear she took Zimmermans word at face value and that anyone who contradicted Zimmermans narrative was unreliable without actually going into detail why(like these threads) and all but said Jeantal was a dumb shit.

I would probably put a football fields length of distance between her opinions and my own if I were part of the jury.
 

linsivvi

Member
My parents told me that if a guy has a gun you don't resist. Your life is worth more than any property, and you can't use your fists against a bullet. When a guy brandished a gun to my neighbor's son to steal his iphone, he didn't fight back, he gave up the phone and he's alive today. Would you tell your kids to fight back against a guy with gun?!?!!? Chances are you'll live if you don't' fight back against a gun.

When a stranger with a gun comes up to you YES YOU SPREAD EAGLE, well if you want to live.

As far as we know Martin didn't know he had a gun. He only knew he was being stalked.

What does that have to do with my post anyway?
 

MThanded

I Was There! Official L Receiver 2/12/2016
My parents told me that if a guy has a gun you don't resist. Your life is worth more than any property, and you can't use your fists against a bullet. When a guy brandished a gun to my neighbor's son to steal his iphone, he didn't fight back, he gave up the phone and he's alive today. Would you tell your kids to fight back against a guy with gun?!?!!? Chances are you'll live if you don't' fight back against a gun.

When a stranger with a gun comes up to you YES YOU SPREAD EAGLE, well if you want to live.
GZ has an internal holster and it was pitch black in the location near the scuffle. I presume TM had no idea there was a gun involved.
 

LAMBO

Member
As far as we know Martin didn't know he had a gun. He only knew he was being stalked.

What does that have to do with my post anyway?

I'm responding to the video, not the case. I'm paraphrasing but the man from Detroit said, his "truth bombs", as he said "should i tell my kids to spread eagle when a guy has gun?" YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS you should.
 

Mononoke

Banned
I know the jurors promised this was not about race AT ALL, but it's just such a fun mind-boggling exercise to flip the races in this story and think about everything around it in that light. Oh that big black dude that kid the little white kid? He learned his lesson let's not go crazy here.

People can be racist, even when they don't admit it. If an all white jury see's a black man shot (and Zimmerman thought he looked suspicious on top of his neighborhood having break ins from black suspects the week before) - they could have felt that it's a situation they would understand, and might even be in themselves. That these same people would feel sketch if a black person was walking around their neighborhood, and would find them suspicious like Zimmerman did (even if he was completely innocent).

White people have an unfounded fear of black people all of the time (not saying all white people do. But it's also a common enough occurrence that can't be ignored). So while they might not have openly or maybe even purposely been racist in their decision, their decision could have been made colored by racist feelings/view points that aren't always surface level. I've always felt that America is still racist (well obviously), but more racist than people realize. People just don't admit it.
 

strobogo

Banned
I don't even understand how you would find a jury for a case like this, let alone in that area. There wasn't a person in the country unaware of the case. How the fuck are people from where it happened going to pretend like they aren't aware of it and have no bias going in?
 

Soler

Banned
In all honesty
Jurors need to shut up, everything they say or do will be seen as an attempt to steal the spotlight and quite frankly that's what it looks like to me
 

1upmuffin

Member
" juror B37 announced plans to write a tell-all book about her experiences on the jury in the Zimmerman trial ."

Someone could not possibly make a whole book about their experience as a juror it would be dreadful to read.
 

ffdgh

Member
" juror B37 announced plans to write a tell-all book about her experiences on the jury in the Zimmerman trial ."

Someone could not possibly make a whole book about their experience as a juror it would be dreadful to read.

They'll try if they think they can make easy money from it.
 
I don't even understand how you would find a jury for a case like this, let alone in that area. There wasn't a person in the country unaware of the case. How the fuck are people from where it happened going to pretend like they aren't aware of it and have no bias going in?

this is why I support out of state jurors from other parts of the country but that's wishful thinking
 

Mononoke

Banned
Nevermind, not even going to bother arguing. As I was wrong about the legal definition of murder. I understand what the poster was trying to say.

Anyways, I feel like the more the jurors speak out, the less likely they made their decision based on lack of evidence. They just seem really wishy-washy, and it seems like they VOTED on emotion rather than facts. Sigh.
 

strobogo

Banned
this is why I support out of state jurors from other parts of the country but that's wishful thinking

It really blows my mind. There was a double murder in my city 2 years ago by 3 teenagers. The jury were all people from this city, and one was FROM THE SAME NEIGHBORHOOD where the murder happened. Everyone here knew all the details about the case long before the trial. Including a person who lived a few houses down from the murder and definitely knew all 5 people involved in the case. The trial was a year after the murders, with multiple interviews from prosecutor and the accused and families of the victims being in the papers over that year.
 

Unicorn

Member
The boy fucking ran away.... He fucking ran. Does that not count for anything? Should he have walked instead? Is fleeing really not good enough here?


Fuck me man.. these people make my blood boil. I cannot stand this shit.

And how does she even GET the jury spot with her husband being a lawyer and her referring to him as a "Boy of color"? Did they purposely throw this case? Its was handled fucking HORRIBLY.
She is also blatantly lying about what information prior she had about the case. Going from saying she spends all day feeding her animals and sleeping (if that) to having a job. There's no way she lives in that sort of bubble of no media/news intake especially when her husband is an attorney PLUS stating she will have him record the Today Show. For someone who claims left/right wing bias in newspapers she sure has to get her Today Show news. If she only" half pays attention" and it has no influence on her life then why is it so important that if she misses a day or more of it that she needs her husband to record it so she can watch it in the evening.

So many contradictory, falsified answers. She states she knows nothing but names, then that there's a death, then admits to knowing more details.
 
I specifically said violent crimes, I believe. The statistics are very, very clear on the discrepancy there. I could entertain the assertion that the discrepancy in drug crime is due to lack of enforcement among whites, and therefore an illusory statistic....

EXCUSE ME?! You could entertain the assertion that the drug war is racially motivated? That's not an assertion, that's not something you entertain, that's an objective fact. You're in law school for god's sake, you don't get an excuse for not knowing this shit. You have a moral responsibility to understand this, the drug war is the cause of one of the largest increases in racially directed mass incarceration in human history and you're about to enter into the profession directly responsible for enforcing it. You were immediately able to quote from a statistician's blog to support your argument about blacks killing more than whites but yet you've been incapable of deciphering that the drug war is about race up to this point? That has to be some selective ignorance on your part, so let me provide a tiny primer on the issue which doesn't even get into how the drug war fosters and ensures minority Americans become trapped in pit of inescapable poverty and legalized discrimination. Here's a thought experiment though: Why are DUIs only a misdemeanor but drug crimes a felony which deprive you of the right to vote, public housing and welfare benefits, and require you to permanently notify employers of your felon status?

In 2006, 1 in every 14 black men were behind bars, compared with 1 in 106 white men. For young black men, the disparity is even worse. 1 in 9 black men between the ages of twenty and thirty five were behind bars.

On the Drug War Driving Mass Incarceration:

In 2009, nearly half of federal prisoners (48%) were incarcerated on drug charges. Drug offenses alone account for two-thirds of the rise in the federal inmate population and more than half the rise in state prisoners between 1985 and 2000 [1]. About half a million people are in prison or jail today for a drug offense compared to 41,100 in 1980, a 1,100 percent increase [2]. Drug arrests have tripled since 1980 and more than 31 million people have been arrested for drug offenses since the drug war began [3]. There are more people in prisons and jails today just for drug offenses than were incarcerated for all reasons in 1980 [4]. The vast majority of those arrested were not charged with serious offenses; four out of five arrests were for possession. Arrests for marijuana possession accounted for nearly 80 percent of the growth in drug arrests in the 1990s. Moreover, most people in state prison for drug offenses have no history of violence or significant selling activity [5].

On the Drug War Being Racially Directed:

Human Rights Watch reported in 2000 that, in 7 states, African Americans constituted 80-90 percent of all drug offenders sent to prison [3]. In at least 15 states, blacks were admitted to prison on drug charges at a rate 20 to 57 times greater than that of white men. On a nationwide average, 56 percent of drug offenders in state prisons were black and the rate of drug admissions to state prison for black men was 13 times greater than the rate for white men [4]. Although the majority of illegal drug users and dealers nationwide are white, three fourths of all people imprisoned for drug offenses have been black or Latino [8].

People of all races use and sell illegal drugs at very similar rates [10]. Other studies suggest whites, particularly white youth, are more likely to engage in illegal drug dealing than people of color [11]. The National Institute on Drug Abuse reported in 2000 that white students use crack cocaine at 8 times the rate of black students and use heroin at 7 times the rate of black students, with nearly identical figures for marijuana use [12]. The National Household Survey on Drug Abuse also reported that white youth age 12-17 were more than a third more likely to have sold illegal drugs than African American youth [13]. Studies also consistently indicate that drug markets, like American society generally, reflect our nation's racial and socioeconomic boundaries. Whites tend to sell to whites; blacks to blacks, students to students, rural to rural, urban to urban[15].


Citations:
Drug War Driving Mass Incarceration:
1: Marc, Mauer, Race to Incarcerate, rev. ed. (New York: The New Press, 2006), 33.
2: Marc Mauer and Ryan King, A 25 Year Quagmire: The "War on Drugs" and Its Impact on American Society (Washington DC: Sentencing Project, 2007), 2.
3: Ibid, 3.
4: Testimony of Marc Mauer, Executive Director of the Sentencing Project, Prepared for House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security, 111th Cong., Hearing on Unfariness in Federal COcaine Sentencing: Is it time to crack the 100 to 1 disparity? May 21, 2009, 2.
5: Mauer and King, A 25 Year Quagmire, 2-3.

Drug War Racially Directed:
3: Human Rights Watch, Punishment and Prejudice: Racial Disparities in the War on Drugs, HRW Reports, vol 12, no. 2 (May 2000).
4: Ibid.
8: Marc Mauer and Ryan S. King, Schools and Prisons: Fifty Years After Brown v. Board of Education
10: See, e.g., U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, Summary of Findings from the 2000 National Household Survey on Drug Abuse, NHSDA series H-13, DHHHS pub. no. SMA 01-3549 (Rockville, MD: 2001); Results from the 2002 National Survey on Drug Use and Health: National Findings, NSDUH series H-22, DHHS pub. no SMA 03-3836 (2003); Results from the 2007 National Survey on Drug Use and Health: National Findings, NSDUH series H-34, DHHS pub. no. SMA 08-4343 (2007); and Marc Mauer and Ryan S. King, A 25 Year Quagmire, 19.
11: See, e.g., Howard N. Snyder and Melissa Sickman, Juvenile Offenders and Victims: 2006 National Report, US Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prvention (Washington, DC: 2006); Lloyd D. Johnson, Patrick M. O'Malley, Jerald G. Bachman, and John E. Schulenberg, Monitoring the Future, National Survey Results on Drug Use, 1975-2006, vol. 1, Secondary Schools Students, US Department of Health and Human Services, National Institute on Drug Abuse, NIH pub. no. 07-6205 (Bethesda, MD: 2007), 32; Lloyd D. Johnston, Patrick M. O'Malley, and Jerald G. Bachman, Monitoring the Future: National Results on Adolescent Drug Use: Overview of Key Findings 2002, US Department of Health and Human Services, National Institute on Drug Abuse, NIH pub. no. 03-5374 (Bethesda, MD: 2003)
12: National Institute on Drug Abuse, Monitoring the Future, National Survey Results on Drug Use, 1975-1999, vol. 1, Secondary School Students (Washington, DC: National Institute on Drug Abuse, 2000).
13: US Department of Health, National Household Survey on Drug Abuse, 1999 (Washington, DC: Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, Office of Applied Studies, 2000), table G, p. 71, www.samhsa.gov/statistics/statistics.html
15: K. Jack Riley, Crack, Powder Cocaine and Heroin: Drug Purchase and Use Patterns in Six U.S. Cities (Washington, DC: National Institute of Justice, 1997), see also George Rengert and James LeBeau "The Impact of Ethnic Boundaries on the Spatial Choice of Illegal Drug Dealers" presented at American Society of Criminology, Atlanta, Georgia, Nov. 13, 2007.
 

DigitalOp

Banned
Honestly, fuck these crime stats yo.

A cop arrests 5 people. 4 Black and 1 White.

Guess what?!!!

"80% of blacks are criminals while whites only makeup a smaller 20%"

That's what these fucking stats are..

In NO WAY can stats reveal if a cop was actively searching for crime, or for a person with pigment on their skin...

And THATS the fucking problem.
 
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