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[Deleted member 81567]

I think the last of us just knows guys like girls

 

[Pyronite]

That Ken Levine explanation is hilarious. It's some of the most obvious pandering I've ever seen. "no it's not about you, o great nerd, you know our game, it's about those idiot dudebro fratguys you hate so much and blame for ruining your hobby."

It's the truth, though, and shouldn't be controversial.

Things sell because of how they look. Items in a store sell much more when they're eye-level. The shoppers who use the front cover to judge a game look for something very different than the one who runs out to buy it.

There is a very real psychology and area of study behind things like this.

 

[Treefingers]

Considering the entire gaming industry probably wouldn't even exist if us "nerds" hadn't supported it through through its 8 and 16-bit infancy, that strawman argument might hold more water than you would expect, at least in many people's eyes.

jesus can you guys be more elitist? like it or not other people like video games too and have different tastes then you, and there are more of them.

this whole label of 'dudebros' needs to die, it's such a bitter, exclusionary stereotype.

 

[ASIS]

I don't see what's so wrong about that boxart. Its nice. Yeah its a bit generic but they need it to look like that to not scare away potential consumers.

 

[Angry Fork]

What Levine said is typical marketing strategy... nothing childish.

What I was calling childish was the whole "dudebro" classification based solely on what someone plays since the term is used more for "being stupid for playing these games" than it is for simply being interested in only popular games.

In many cases, many don't have time to play other games. Therefore, they go for what's popular knowing "I can play with a lot of people in these games."

It's basically boils down to "bang for the buck".

There are still categories people are put in because not all games/movies/TV shows are of the same quality. Nobody is saying dudebros are horrible people or stupid in other aspects of their lives but they're judged worse if they play COD because COD is considered a cheap/easy/stupid game.

I don't personally agree with that, I don't like it but don't hate it, COD is what it is. I don't care at all if people have fun with it it just becomes a problem if other games incorporate COD elements in order to appeal to them at the detriment of their own vision.

Someone can honestly say they love transformers 2 more than say District 9 or something but most people agree District 9 is a better film and they can point out why. If filmmakers looked at Transformers 3 money and said let's make district 10 be more like transformers people would be upset.

Dudebros are derided because they're partly responsible for making bad games (based on 'hardcore gamers' standard) successful, and publishers copy successful games to turn a profit. At least people like Levine still want to keep the content of their game as close to their own vision as possible and having dudebro cover is an extremely tiny price to pay for that. I actually like the cover a lot though and really anticipating the game so maybe I'm an anomaly.

 

[olimpia84]

So dudebros win this round. Why can't we have reversible covers?

 

[i-Lo]

Because we real "Gamers" are way above those dumb "Frat boys".

They should not enjoy games and not deserve to have the cover cater to them.

Nice of you to twist my words to fit your sarcastic remark. Bravo.

 

[Jarmel]

I don't even understand the want for reversible covers. Do you put your games on a pedestal where you admire it from? Most shelves I see that has tons of games on them, has everything but the spine covered.

How long are you people looking at these boxes?

 

[la flama blanca]

The problem is trying to appeal to anyone with a game cover. Just make a cover that reflects what you think the game is about, don't cater to anyone but yourself, the creator. That's what makes a good box art cover.

 

[Liquidus]

“We went and did a tour… around to a bunch of, like, frathouses and places like that."

I stopped after that. It all makes sense now. Needs more call of duty and dudebro, bro.

 

[vidcons]

I think the last of us just knows guys like girls

let's do some color adjustments and outlining to reveal the real truth

 

[POWERSPHERE]

It's amazing this matters to anyone. As long as the game isn't compromised that is.

 

[beastmode]

Sort of deceitful.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

The problem is trying to appeal to anyone with a game cover. Just make a cover that reflects what you think the game is about, don't cater to anyone but yourself, the creator. That's what makes a good box art cover.

That's what makes good art. What makes a good box art cover for a game that was very expensive to make is whatever will contribute to sales. I guarantee that Ken Levine is fully aware of the philosophy you're espousing but has chose for pragmatic reasons to approach the cover differently - as a commercial product. As long as he didn't approach the game design in the same way, it's for the best.

 

[Jarmel]

let's do some color adjustments and outlining to reveal the real truth

We're through the looking glass here.

 

[Dylan]

Laughable that anyone would be "upset" about a piece of packaging. I'm glad I'll be getting this digitally so I never have to look at a box.

Also, for people complaining that the cover is "A dude with a gun", are we not all in agreement that bioshock is still pretty much a game about shooting people in the face?

 

[jimi_dini]

I don't even understand the want for reversible covers. Do you put your games on a pedestal where you admire it from? Most shelves I see that has tons of games on them, has everything but the spine covered.

Imagine this just for video games covers.

 

[Bgamer90]

If the only thing that is going to grab the consumer is the box art then the marketing campaign has failed, chart position(either real or bought) is usually much more important to the type of consumer you are talking about. Take Skyrim as an example, the box art for that is fairly nondescript, it is in a genre that would be easy to paint as geeky, but the quality(both of the game & it's marketing) sold that game, not "me-too" box art.

You say that as if box art is the only thing... as if they can't advertise the game via box art AND media ads. Why do only one thing to market a game when you can do multiple things? Doesn't make sense.

In terms of Skyrim, what's to say that it wouldn't have done a bit better than it did if it had a more appealing box art?

Also just because these consumers don't visit gaming websites or magazines doesn't mean that they are not receiving information about games, most daily newspapers cover them, & also most specialised magazines will do( Car, Lifestyle, Music, Film, etc. ).

But how many of those people will actually read those sections or even get newspapers or magazines that give information about games?

I think a vast majority of them wouldn't really be interested in a playing a game such as Bioshock,

...Based on what?

....& trying to "con" them is only going to lead to bad word of mouth(amongst those consumers).

heh; you say that like people have never been disappointed with something they bought, even if it did get good reception. You also say that like it's impossible for people of that audience to actually like the game.

Man, if the majority of GAF handled the advertising of games then almost everything would bomb.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Sort of deceitful.

Yeah, someone who doesn't know any better might get a lovingly crafted and unique experience. What a shame.

 

[Deleted member 81567]

let's do some color adjustments and outlining to reveal the real truth

damn

 

[params7]

Remember how upset people were at the Dark Souls cover? Looked like some hack and slash generic game. But the actual game was alright, hardcore.

Really people shouldn't be upset over the cover, but only if the actual game itself was casualized for the frat/cod bros.

 

[Jarmel]

Imagine this just for video games covers.

Does anyone here have something similar? Anyone? I can't imagine even 0.1% of buyers do this. I mean I have framed game covers, I'm rather unusual in that regards, but I really don't care that much about the art on the cover itself but rather the sentiment behind the game.

 

[Dylan]

let's do some color adjustments and outlining to reveal the real truth

Um.....

 

[AlimNassor]

I do miss the times when people would just make games and the quality of those games would end up forcing dudebros or whoever it was to buy it. Remember the original splinter cell selling 5 or 6 million? God of War 1 did several million, hell GTA San Andreas aka the greatest sandbox game ever did 20+.

Now everyone tries to pander to what they think dudebros want and the funny thing is they still don't buy it and stick to Fifa/Madden and COD every year.

Game Devs aren't too intelligent. Dude bros I know hate CoD clones, if they think it's a CoD clone they instantly go "dude, why play that crappy COD ripoff? Go play the real CoD". Dude bros don't want anything but CoD, and devs will never understand this.

I'm glad the Souls series subvert this and makes it hard.

 

[Nemesis_]

I think it speaks a lot to the absurdity of 'gaming culture' that the guy has to issue an apologetic explanation to the 'TRUE FANS' explaining why the box has one picture on it instead of another.

Pretty much this. I can't believe the internet is kicking up this much of a fuss over it.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

I'm surprised people get so tore up over this sort of thing.

Levine is exactly right.

Agreed. Don't see the big deal.

 

[Fistwell]

Dudebros are derided because they're partly responsible for making bad games (based on 'hardcore gamers' standard) successful

They... they are?

Remember how upset people were at the Dark Souls cover?

No? Man, it's like I've been living under a rock.

Laughable that anyone would be "upset" about a piece of packaging.

Honestly, I think the discussion it is spawning is more interesting than the original "problem" itself.

 

[soldat7]

Make the cover flippable.

Exactly. This shouldn't be a huge deal.

 

[vidcons]

Can someone explain what is dudebro about this boxart? All I see is some kicking rad dude holding a shotgun while beautiful sparks are spattered at him as the american flag burns up.

That's just so fucking tight. Speaks directly to everything that matters to me when looking for my new 3D moral compass.

 

[Lancehead]

Yeah, someone who doesn't know any better might get a lovingly crafted and unique experience. What a shame.

Or one would find it a turd, and will have wasted $60.

Not that I agree with the post you quoted.

 

[beastmode]

Yeah, someone who doesn't know any better might get a lovingly crafted and unique experience. For shame.

Sounds what the marketing people at a salad dressing company would say.

 

[richiek]

The Game Informer Bioshock Infinite covers did a great job in conveying the atmosphere of the game:

Hell, this would have been a more acceptable cover than what we got.

 

[boiled goose]

Sacrificing creative vision and artistic integrity for broad appeal and potential sales?

Yay big publishers.

I hope that the rise of the indie game studio continues... Levine's excuse is not a 'justifiable reason', it is depressing.

 

[.la1n]

I'm surprised people get so tore up over this sort of thing.

Levine is exactly right.

Should have been first post, bottom line is if people aren't lining up to purchase the games then we suffer for it.

 

[Balb]

Also, for people complaining that the cover is "A dude with a gun", are we not all in agreement that bioshock is still pretty much a game about shooting people in the face?

This is a great point and should be talked about more.

Laughable that anyone would be "upset" about a piece of packaging. I'm glad I'll be getting this digitally so I never have to look at a box.

This I disagree with. Sure, it's irrelevant if you buy the game digitally but there's something to be said about having a good cover that evokes the feeling of what you're about to experience.

Examples:

Japanese Ico box
Final Nintendo Power cover

 

[TouchMyBox]

Since when do games come in boxes anyway?

People are upset over nothing.

 

[J0dy77]

So what he should be doing is making a reversable cover so the hardcore can flip it inside out when they get the game.

 

[ScOULaris]

Fucking fratboys ruining my box art...

 

[boiled goose]

Should have been first post, bottom line is if people aren't lining up to purchase the games then we suffer for it.

We suffer more when unique games sacrifice what makes them unique for purposes of broad appeal.

Sure, this is just the boxart, but it points in the general direction of what publishers are thinking. see dead space 3 and dark souls 2 and most other franchises that have been 'consolized' or 'streamlined' this gen.

 

[Mael]

Funny thing with this box art is that I didn't follow the game at all so I have no info what it is,
but it'll never be an impulse buy at any price with this kind of cover that's for sure.
Seriously it looks like the cover of DNF!

 

[Dyno]

Right now my heart goes out to Levine and his crew. They have been working on this totally ambitious game forever and there have been many problems. It's obvious now there is a great deal of pressure to show something amazing and to sell copies outside the usual market in order to recoop costs. It's probably driving him to an early grave.

The cover is just fine in that I will be able to tell the difference between this game and other games. That he has to explain the cover choice is a window to the strain the project is putting him through. I hope for the best to all involved.

 

[Rollo Lawson]

This isn't even close to being as dope as the actual cover...

The box art is dope. It's vibrant, eye-catching, and there's a burning flag. I'd say mission accomplished

 

[vidcons]

oh, i guess people just want bad fan attempts at criterion collection covers

nevermind, move along

 

[Dylan]

Funny thing with this box art is that I didn't follow the game at all so I have no info what it is,
but it'll never be an impulse buy at any price with this kind of cover that's for sure.
Seriously it looks like the cover of DNF!

You post on GAF. I'm guessing the chances that you buy your games impulsively based on cover art are pretty low.

 

[see5harp]

We suffer more when unique games sacrifice what makes them unique for purposes of broad appeal.

Sure, this is just the boxart, but it points in the general direction of what publishers are thinking. see dead space 3 and dark souls 2 and most other franchises that have been 'consolized' or 'streamlined' this gen.

If the publisher thinks there's more money to be had then I don't see the big deal. The game is the same game whether it's just text on a case.

 

[show me your skeleton]

The Game Informer Bioshock Infinite covers did a great job in conveying the atmosphere of the game:

that tells you very, very little about the game.

 

[Izick]

This makes sense. You have to pander to the meat-heads and lowest common denominators out there unfortunately, but that's just how it is. It's a shame that video games aren't at the point yet where anything outside of modern military shooters can do exceptionally well, but hopefully we'll get there someday.

that tells you very, very little about the game.

-The game is set in the past; likely sometime between 1905-1950; this can be gleamed through the clothing and colors
-There is something called a "Skyhook" in the game
-There is a giant robot creature with a human heart
-The big monster is some sort of protector, or at least enforcer; the child seems scared but is calm enough to pick up his hat, so it's not an enemy

 

[Parakeetman]

that tells you very, very little about the game.

Big man likes little hat?

 

[mr. puppy]

have they considered just cancelling this game?

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Sacrificing creative vision and artistic integrity* for broad appeal and potential sales?

Yay big publishers.

I hope that the rise of the indie game studio continues... Levine's excuse is not a 'justifiable reason', it is depressing.

*of one picture on a plastic box.

You're welcome to find it depressing. I think it would be more depressing if games like this don't get made anymore because they aren't financially viable.