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Kiefer Sutherland is the new Snake

as mcgamer likes to point out

kojima's only trolled his fanbase once and that was with mgs2 where he straight up lied about stuff in the game. with every other game in the series what you saw is what you got.
 
MomoPufflet said:
Kojima definitely has to have an angle on this, though to be honest I'm fine with any of the outcomes I can envision.

1. It's all a lie and Hayter is Snake - - I'm ok with that. Put on the nostalgia goggles! Classic Snake I guess.
2. Hayter is not in it at all -- OK, his last few Snake performances were not too great anyway-- let's see what Kiefer can do.
3. Neither Hayter or Sutherland are in it -- Not likely at all but ok! Take me there Hideo, you crazy fuck.
4. They're both in it -- seems most likely and I don't see how this would be a bad thing if he's doing something interesting with it

I'm reminded of the scene in Heat where Tom Sizemore is deciding whether or not he wants to join the bank heist and says something like "The action is the juice, I'm in." Let's see where this goes.
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I'm leaning towards option 4 at this point. Kiefer may actually voice someone else entirely. Possibly this Ishmael character who might turn out to be Frank Jaeger (there was some speculation surrounding this).

Why did they make Sutherland voice both Snake and Ishmael in the same scene?
 
Izick said:
If you think him switching Raiden for Snake in MGS2 was "just a petty trick," then you're sorely mistaken.
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The way it was laid out? You bet your ass it was a petty trick. I'm completely okay with radical changes but the need to fool the audience so that you can have a "NOPE LOL" moment is stupid. There's no reason for it.

I think Kojima learned his lesson because if MGS2 had featured only Snake throughout it would have been held higher than what it is today.
IMACOMPUTA said:
Joakim Mogren?
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Nobody clapped or cheered when Kojima "revealed" that it was him. It's corny, we just want to see the damn game.
 
RK9039 said:
I'm leaning towards option 4 at this point. Kiefer may actually voice someone else entirely. Possibly this Ishmael character who might turn out to be Frank Jaeger (there was some speculation surrounding this). Why did they make Sutherland voice both Snake and Ishmael in the same scene?
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They literally /just/ did a huge press release and video to explain that Kiefer is Snake. These theories are getting more and more ridiculous over time.

Guys. Occam's Razor. The simplest solution is almost always the correct one, even with Kojima. Sutherland is Snake, Hayter isn't in the game. This is reality.

We are living in the darkest timeline.
 
PlanetSmasher said:
That's exactly what happened. They never even told him until after they recast the role. That's why he's bitter about it. Remember, we're talking about a guy who took a severe pay cut on The Twin Snakes just to reunite the original cast, and a guy who plays every installment when it comes out. He clearly loves and cares about MGS.

He has every reason to be bitter and feel short-changed, especially when Kojima didn't even have the balls to thank him for all of his work and his devotion to the franchise for the past decade and a half.
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Exactly, and that's why I feel bad if that is the case. It's not right.

I still just don't think he would do something as strange as change his twitter profile picture to Sutherland though. There's being understandably bitter, but then there's being unprofessional. In all of the interviews I've seen him in, he usually seems to be professional. He seems playful and friendly, but still professional.

If he is mad about it though, then I think I understand why. I don't totally understand. I mean nobody can totally understand but him. The man has been connected with this character and series for nearly 15 years now.
 
PlanetSmasher said:
They literally /just/ did a huge press release and video to explain that Kiefer is Snake. These theories are getting more and more ridiculous over time.

Guys. Occam's Razor. The simplest solution is almost always the correct one, even with Kojima. Sutherland is Snake, Hayter isn't in the game. This is reality.

We are living in the darkest timeline.
Click to expand...

You're right they wouldn't lie to the press.

ed: And the fans.
 
I think this is a waste a money. Now the expected sales will increase millions of copies. For me this type of production value is why the gaming industry is facing such a crisis.
 
Izick said:
Exactly, and that's why I feel bad if that is the case. It's not right.

I still just don't think he would do something as strange as change his twitter profile picture to Sutherland though. There's being understandably bitter, but then there's being unprofessional. In all of the interviews I've seen him in, he usually seems to be professional. He seems playful and friendly, but still professional.

If he is mad about it though, then I think I understand why. I don't totally understand. I mean nobody can totally understand but him. The man has been connected with this character and series for nearly 15 years now.
Click to expand...

This is why you don't get attached to roles/ companies even when working for them. In the end, it's a business and they're going to do what they think will make them the most money. Having a name actor as your main character does that. Getting rid of Hayter would probably have little impact on the sales, just as keeping him would have little impact.
 
PlanetSmasher said:
He changed his picture to Sutherland as a joke about the fact he's been replaced. I don't see why that's giving people reason to believe it's a Kojima troll. He's openly saying he's not in the game at all.
Click to expand...

If this is a troll do you really think Kojima would be cool with him saying "HEY GUYS IM ACTUALLY IN THE GAME, KOJIMA U R FUNNY! ?HEEHEE"?

Us guys on the #kojimatroll side have stated our arguments. What are yours? Saying that Hayter's out because he and Kojima said so does not equal a valid argument.
 
Izick said:
Exactly, and that's why I feel bad if that is the case. It's not right.

I still just don't think he would do something as strange as change his twitter profile picture to Sutherland though. There's being understandably bitter, but then there's being unprofessional. In all of the interviews I've seen him in, he usually seems to be professional. He seems playful and friendly, but still professional.

If he is mad about it though, then I think I understand why. I don't totally understand. I mean nobody can totally understand but him. The man has been connected with this character and series for nearly 15 years now.
Click to expand...

As an actor, I can say that sometimes you can really, REALLY identify with a character when playing a role, and losing it can feel like losing a piece of yourself.

Imagine how it would feel to lose a character you've been playing for 15 years, and not even get so much as a thank you.

RK9039 said:
You're right they wouldn't lie to the press.
Click to expand...

It's not a question of lying to the press. Kiefer Sutherland is too expensive for them to hire for a prank. Simple as that.

IMACOMPUTA said:
If this is a troll do you really think Kojima would be cool with him saying "HEY GUYS IM ACTUALLY IN THE GAME, KOJIMA U R FUNNY! ?HEEHEE"?

Us guys on the #kojimatroll side have stated our arguments. What are yours? Saying that Hayter's out because he and Kojima said so does not equal a valid argument.
Click to expand...

I already made my argument. Sutherland is too expensive for them to hire solely as a prank to make people think Hayter isn't in the game. It's a stupidly over complicated theory, and Kojima is not that subtle.
 
PlanetSmasher said:
They literally /just/ did a huge press release and video to explain that Kiefer is Snake. These theories are getting more and more ridiculous over time.

Guys. Occam's Razor. The simplest solution is almost always the correct one, even with Kojima. Sutherland is Snake, Hayter isn't in the game. This is reality.

We are living in the darkest timeline.
Click to expand...

You're using that theory wrong. It doesn't even begin to have any usage in this situation.
 
I honestly didn't mind Hayter until MGS4. His performance in that was bad. And not so bad it was good. Just plain bad. Why did he have to do the gravel-throat so over-the-top? And in such a horrible way? He should never work in voice acting again and just stick with writing now on.
 
Bpatrol said:
This is why you don't get attached to roles/ companies even when working for them. In the end, it's a business and they're going to do what they think will make them the most money.
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Yeah that's all well and good, business is business. But that still doesn't excuse the lack of respect they showed him.
 
Stan Smith said:
The way it was laid out? You bet your ass it was a petty trick. I'm completely okay with radical changes but the need to fool the audience so that you can have a "NOPE LOL" moment is stupid. There's no reason for it.
Click to expand...

No, you're wrong there.

The whole idea of MGS 2 is pulling the rug from under the player and player. The whole second-half off the story (past the tanker) is based upon the player literally replacing Snake, with the avatar of Raiden. Raiden basically encapsulates the player a lot better than Snake does. He's green, he's squeamish, he unsure of himself, he's in awe of the Solid Snake character and persona, etc. The idea that Kojima did this has to do with the whole idea of expectations as a player, and how the actual release of a game deals with them. From idyllic dream-game to reality. Not to mention these are just a few of the numerous themes and ideas going on here.

To say there's no reason for it is just not true. I think I'm a lot more open to opinions, and I know lots of things in gaming is opinion-based and subjective, but to say there's no reason for the switch in MGS 2 is just incorrect.

Bpatrol said:
This is why you don't get attached to roles/ companies even when working for them. In the end, it's a business and they're going to do what they think will make them the most money. Having a name actor as your main character does that. Getting rid of Hayter would probably have little impact on the sales, just as keeping him would have little impact.
Click to expand...

As a businessman, I completely agree. As an artist or an (voice) actor, well I don't agree. When you have a guy like Hayter, who puts his heart and soul into the series, it tends to give a better performance. It lends a lot more real emotion to the voice. It makes the character and actor a lot more close.
 
IMACOMPUTA said:
If this is a troll do you really think Kojima would be cool with him saying "HEY GUYS IM ACTUALLY IN THE GAME, KOJIMA U R FUNNY! ?HEEHEE"?

Us guys on the #kojimatroll side have stated our arguments. What are yours? Saying that Hayter's out because he and Kojima said so does not equal a valid argument.
Click to expand...

Because he doesn't work for Kojima and thus can do whatever he wants? And if he's bitter about being fired, being a dick might be cathartic for him.
 
IMACOMPUTA said:
If this is a troll do you really think Kojima would be cool with him saying "HEY GUYS IM ACTUALLY IN THE GAME, KOJIMA U R FUNNY! ?HEEHEE"?

Us guys on the #kojimatroll side have stated our arguments. What are yours? Saying that Hayter's out because he and Kojima said so does not equal a valid argument.
Click to expand...
I think you just answered your own question.
If this was all a troll, wouldn't Hayter have to be quiet about it and not tweeting "HEY GUYS IM ACTUALLY IN THE GAME, KOJIMA U R FUNNY! ?HEEHEE"? otherwise he would ruin the whole troll.
I think what Hayter has been doing is just his way of dealing with it.
 
seat said:
I honestly didn't mind Hayter until MGS4. His performance in that was bad. And not so bad it was good. Just plain bad. Why did he have to do the gravel-throat so over-the-top? And in such a horrible way? He should never work in voice acting again and just stick with writing now on.
Click to expand...

I don't see why his voice in MGS4 kills the character. He was told to do that by the voice director. Also, Snake was dying and a serial chainsmoker. Did you expect him to sound fine and dandy when his body was literally falling apart?
 
Hayter is being a bit petty and immature about all this, I'm sort of losing respect for him a small bit, I thought he'd be able to rise above it

PlanetSmasher said:
I don't see why his voice in MGS4 kills the character. He was told to do that by the voice director. Also, Snake was dying and a serial chainsmoker. Did you expect him to sound fine and dandy when his body was literally falling apart?
Click to expand...

My problem is he couldn't convey emotion properly with that gargle, it was a bit too over the top and sounded too gutteral. I get what they were going for but I didn't like it all that much
 
Between this mess and Xbone clarifications I am now positive they have managed to teleport me to the bizarro-world. Any suggestions on a way out?
 
Just to throw some kindle on the fire

who is that in the background? He is perfectly framed.
z07ee4W.jpg


normally I wouldnt think its anything, but it is Kojima
 
I just learned that David Hayter voiced Lupin III in Manga Entertainment's dub of Castle of Cagliostro. I don't like his Lupin voice as much as Bob Bergen's, the voice in Geneon's Lupin dubs, but I think his performance in this film proves that he CAN act:

Hayter haters gonna hate.
 
TrutaS said:
I think this is a waste a money. Now the expected sales will increase millions of copies. For me this type of production value is why the gaming industry is facing such a crisis.
Click to expand...
This is a good point. I hope MGS V flops so Kojima will learn that he's never going to be good enough for Hollywood no matter how much he wants it.
It won't though.
 
jacksepticeye said:
Hayter is being a bit petty and immature about all this, I'm sort of losing respect for him a small bit, I thought he'd be able to rise above it
Click to expand...

Try playing a part for 15 years and then getting fired without so much as a pink slip or a thank you. I'm sure you'd be just perfectly professional and calm too.

How is he being unreasonable? The dude's been tied to MGS longer than some of the franchise's fans have even been alive. He IS Snake. Having that taken away from him without any acknowledgement is a massive dick move on Kojima's part.

My problem is he couldn't convey emotion properly with that gargle, it was a bit too over the top and sounded too gutteral. I get what they were going for but I didn't like it all that much
Click to expand...

I can understand not liking it that much, but saying the guy's a shitty actor when he was told to do that by the voice director is kind of silly. He sounded fine in Smash Bros. Brawl.
 
jacksepticeye said:
Hayter is being a bit petty and immature about all this, I'm sort of losing respect for him a small bit, I thought he'd be able to rise above it
Click to expand...
I like the way he's dealing with it. It shows me that he can still see some humor in all of this and it makes me not feel as bad about it all.

sn00zer said:
Just to throw some kindle on the fire

who is that in the background? He is perfectly framed.

normally I wouldnt think its anything, but it is Kojima
Click to expand...
Certainly doesn't look like Hayter to me, that's for sure.
 
Valjean Lafitte said:
I just learned that David Hayter voiced Lupin III in Manga Entertainment's dub of Castle of Cagliostro. I don't like his Lupin voice as much as Bob Bergen's, the voice in Geneon's Lupin dubs, but I think his performance in this film proves that he CAN act:

Hayter haters gonna hate.
Click to expand...

That was recorded over a decade ago. No one's saying he wasn't good before, just that he hasn't been good since about MGS1/2. Which is around the time this was recorded.
 
sn00zer said:
More on the fire stuff...the Keifer video with the dots did not look like a normal studio session at all
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Also that's a very low number of dots. Not nearly enough for good facial animations. It could be that they only use them as reference points though and the rest is done later by hand.
 
PlanetSmasher said:
As an actor, I can say that sometimes you can really, REALLY identify with a character when playing a role, and losing it can feel like losing a piece of yourself.

Imagine how it would feel to lose a character you've been playing for 15 years, and not even get so much as a thank you.



It's not a question of lying to the press. Kiefer Sutherland is too expensive for them to hire for a prank. Simple as that.



I already made my argument. Sutherland is too expensive for them to hire solely as a prank to make people think Hayter isn't in the game. It's a stupidly over complicated theory, and Kojima is not that subtle.
Click to expand...
Dude. Kiefer is in the game.
So is Hayter. Nobody is saying Kiefer is not in.
Your point is invalid.

This is what we have:
Hayter is out and butthurt. He's acting uncharacteristically immature and childish.
The official statement that "Hayter is out" "Kiefer is in" is ONLY negatively affecting Hayter and he is obviously in on it based on the way he is acting.

Not to mention this whole thing is fucking weird, especially including that guy that "introduced Kojima to Sutherland" in the video and him mentioning "knowing another Snake" or whatever he said.
This has Kojima troll written all over it.

If Big Boss and Solid Snake are both in this game, who is going to voice Solid ? The game is so nuts and anything can happen.
 
dragonbane said:
Also that's a very low number of dots. Not nearly enough for good facial animations. It could be that they only use them as reference points though and the rest is done later by hand.
Click to expand...

There was something very fake about all of it.... and David hayter being very outwardly bitter, even though he has been in this business for a long time and knows how to handle himself professionally...its all very strange
 
PlanetSmasher said:
Try playing a part for 15 years and then getting fired without so much as a pink slip or a thank you. I'm sure you'd be just perfectly professional and calm too.

How is he being unreasonable? The dude's been tied to MGS longer than some of the franchise's fans have even been alive. He IS Snake. Having that taken away from him without any acknowledgement is a massive dick move on Kojima's part.
Click to expand...

I get he's pissed and that's a perfectly natural reaction but first off we've known a MGS game was coming for a while and Hayter knew (obviously) he wasn't asked to be the voice so he should have been a little prepared for it. Secondly he's a professional he shouldn't lash out on twitter in tantrums. Stay a little classy at least

I guess looking at it a different way you could say he's passionate about snake and whatnot and I fully understand his annoyance at it.

At first back when the trailer with voices was shown I was a little annoyed too that Hayter wouldn't be Snake but I'm over it now, I think Kiefer will do an amazing job and he's far better than Hayter as a whole. The game requires mocapping snake with the voice actor this time and Kiefer would walk circles around Hayter in this regard
 
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