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[Doom_Bringer]

And as for the PS2 vs PS3 development question. I was chatting to Michiel and he was telling me how crazy-easy it was compared to the PS2 and how much quicker things have been going for them. I will take his word on that.


Seb Downie - Lead Tester - Guerrilla Games

SOE am cry! Thanks to evil-taru @ IGN for the info. ~_~

 

[Lukkas]

who cares what this dev thinks. lets see them actually make a sub par game first. so far all we have seen from them is 2 medicore shooters and a CG movie.

 

[Amir0x]

Everyone knows PS3 is easier to develop for than PS2.
But is it easier to develop for than 360 or Revolution?

I think not.

 

[Smokey]

Hmm..

 

[rastex]

I don't think you guys appreciate just how truly bad PS2 development was at the beginning. I never did it but I heard many horror stories from my co-workers.

 

[Draft]

"Easy as putting ze movie in ze player!"
-Michiel the Guerrilla dude

 

[DarienA]

Everyone knows PS3 is easier to develop for than PS2.
But is it easier to develop for than 360 or Revolution?

I think not.

Does it need to be?

 

[Doom_Bringer]

who cares what this dev thinks. lets see them actually make a sub par game first. so far all we have seen from them is 2 medicore shooters and a CG movie.

:lol

Shell shocked just plain sucked! I haven't played Killzone and it had potential, many say the atmosphere etc was great. Now that Sony owns Guerrilla and they have the time they need for development, they should be able to deliver a good game ya? I think these guys have potential.

They are listening to their fans, having discussions with them so its pretty obvious to me that they want to deliver a great game.

 

[xaosslug]

XBOTS AM CRY!

lol

 

[Amir0x]

Does it need to be?

Any disadvantage is another man's advantage, as they say!

 

[GhaleonEB]

XBOTS AM CRY!

lol

Well - saying the PS3 is easier than the horrific PS2 is not exactly saying much....

[/tokenXBoxRebuttle]

 

[Lukkas]

every dev has potential, i just dont understand why people have already put them and killzone 2 on such a pedestal. they dont deserve all this attention. if all it takes is a CG movie passed off as gameplay to get you to this level more devs should follow suite.

 

[Amir0x]

Well - saying the PS3 is easier than the horrific PS2 is not exactly saying much....

[/tokenXBoxRebuttle]

It's not really a token Xbox rebuttle so much as an indisputable fact. PS2 development was horrible, practically anything is an improvement.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

every dev has potential, i just dont understand why people have already put them and killzone 2 on such a pedestal. they dont deserve all this attention. if all it takes is a CG movie passed off as gameplay to get you to this level more devs should follow suite.

Because Playstation needs a solid exclusive FPS to compete with Metroid and Halo. Killzone is our only chance.

But yes I do agree with the second point. They shouldn't have shown the CG trailer at E3.

 

[seanoff]

Well in a way the devs got what they asked for on the PS2.

During the PS1 era they grumbled they couldn't get to "the metal" as it were so Sony let them have it. Be careful what you wish because you might get it, might be the lesson here. :lol

Maybe that helps them now, the ps2 with the core vu1, vu0 had three threads so ps2 devs have plenty of experience in working with that. Eight of course is harder but less of a shock than going from a single core.

Some of the ps2/3 devs at B3D actually seem to be enjoying the PS3.

 

[Kleegamefan]

EE was a disaster in the early days......developer complaints on that CPU were wide and often....


Funny how in the end it didnt matter since there was a metric ton of great games on that platform anyway and the PS2 will probably go down in history as the best selling console since.....well.....ever


Flash forward to PS3 and now we have a platform that is more powerful and more radical than EE, yet seems to be easier to come to grips with (yay for good dev tools) and its not to hard to see where this platform might go wrt sales....

 

[xaosslug]

every dev has potential, i just dont understand why people have already put them and killzone 2 on such a pedestal. they dont deserve all this attention. if all it takes is a CG movie passed off as gameplay to get you to this level more devs should follow suite.

I think Sony making them a 1st party gives them all kinds street cred. IMO, all they needed was time and money, and Killzone would have been a MUCH better game all around.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

EE was a disaster in the early days......developer complaints on that CPU were wide and often....

yeah I remember that. The only developer that actually liked the PS2 development was Naughty Dog and so far we haven't heard a thing from them about PS3. Even Kojima complained that he couldn't do a lot of stuff in MGS2.

 

[rastex]

The funny thing is that ease of development for the PS3 might actually benefit the 360. Instead of PS3 development eating all the costs, now there may be resources available for ports to the 360... It's definitely going to be the generation of the multiplatform.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

A large chunk of the disaster was the poor documents and tools in the early days of PS2 development, devs we're thrown in head first without much to work with. Sony certainly learned that lesson this time they seemed to prepared with all kinds of documents and tools to work with, having Nvidia certainly helped with that too.

 

[Lukkas]

IMO both 360 and PS3 should have stuck closer to PC parts. It wouldnt get easier than that for devs really. Nothing wrong with a mini pc as a console, look at Xbox. It was nearly maxed out with first gen titles (DOA, Rallisport, Halo).

 

[Frank the Great]

its much easier for them to develop shitty games for ps3 than for ps2, theres less competition this early on

 

[Pedigree Chum]

A large chunk of the disaster was the poor documents and tools in the early days of PS2 development, devs we're thrown in head first without much to work with. Sony certainly learned that lesson this time they seemed to prepared with all kinds of documents and tools to work with, having Nvidia certainly helped with that too.

And they bought out SN systems to help with tools, included Aegia and Havok into their dev kits and are giving everyone a trial version of UE3.0. Sony definitely is on top of things this time when it comes to developer support.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

yeah I remember that. The only developer that actually liked the PS2 development was Naughty Dog and so far we haven't heard a thing from them about PS3. Even Kojima complained that he couldn't do a lot of stuff in MGS2.

Which coincidently is probably PS2's best technical developers, even Half-Life 2's Gabe Novel said he thought they are probably the best team for multithreaded programming. I can't wait to see that techically proven team work their stuff on PS3.

 

[Kleegamefan]

its much easier for them to develop shitty games for ps3 than for ps2, theres less competition this early on

And realistically, you will probably see more crap games on PS3 than on X360, since Sony will, most likely, once again retain the lions share of 3rd party software and IP.....MS reps state there is ~ 160 X360 games in development worldwide......for PS3, Sony has 2/3rds this amount being worked on in Japan alone (102 announced games)

 

[Pedigree Chum]

Which coincidently is probably PS2's best technical developers, even Half-Life 2's Gabe Novel said he thought they are probably the best team for multithreaded programming. I can't wait to see that techically proven team work their stuff on PS3.

*cough*Criterion*cough*

 

[rob the slob]

Well what else would you expect a Sony developer to say? *wink wink*

 

[Doom_Bringer]

Which coincidently is probably PS2's best technical developers, even Half-Life 2's Gabe Novel said he thought they are probably the best team for multithreaded programming. I can't wait to see that techically proven team work their stuff on PS3.

Its not about Gabe, fuck Valve. I spent a lot of time with Jak III and without a doubt it is the best looking game on PS2. Fast loading, good cloth dynamics, big huge city with a lot of stuff going on etc. The game runs on this super streaming engine like no other! I thought it was fantastic!! I love Naughty Dog!
Jak III was awesome.

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

Because Playstation needs a solid exclusive FPS to compete with Metroid and Halo. Killzone is our only chance.

Does Playstation really need an exclusive FPS? At least we know there wont be such a dearth in the genre for them this time around. Nvidia tools + beefy hardware have gotten a lot of Western PC based devs that wouldnt go 100 yards near a PS2 SDK fully on board, Starbreeze and Crytek being some recent examples. What was essentially an exclusive genre for MS is now likely going to be a pretty decent part of PS3's third party catalogue.

That said if your looking for a quality FPS from Sony's first party, Insomniacs offering has a lot more prospects going for it than Guerrilla's if you ask me. Ted Price and crew will bring the goods.

 

[DJ Sl4m]

EE was a disaster in the early days......developer complaints on that CPU were wide and often....


Funny how in the end it didnt matter since there was a metric ton of great games on that platform anyway and the PS2 will probably go down in history as the best selling console since.....well.....ever


Flash forward to PS3 and now we have a platform that is more powerful and more radical than EE, yet seems to be easier to come to grips with (yay for good dev tools) and its not to hard to see where this platform might go wrt sales....

Good points

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

*cough*Criterion*cough*

Even with them, Naughty Dog is just sick with what they are pushing all at once.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

Does Playstation really need an exclusive FPS? At least we know there wont be such a dearth in the genre for them this time around. Nvidia tools + beefy hardware have gotten a lot of Western PC based devs that wouldnt go 100 yards near a PS2 SDK fully on board, Starbreeze and Crytek being some recent examples. What was essentially an exclusive genre for MS is now likely going to be a pretty decent part of PS3's third party catalogue.

That said if your looking for a quality FPS from Sony's first party, Insomniacs offering has a lot more prospects going for it than Guerrilla's if you ask me. Ted Price and crew will bring the goods.

Yeah. I think that by going with Nvidia and making the PS3 more PC dev friendly MS has lost much of its advatange as a FPS console. I expect most big FPS's to be on both PS3 and Xbox 360, that's going to really hurt MS cause Sony's got almost all other genres swen up...MS has to diversify their portfolio next-gen, cause they can't rely on FPS's anymore.

I also agree with your second point. I-8 is the exclsuive PS3 FPS to back. Killzone might be good, but with Insomniac's track record I-8 has more potential.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

Does Playstation really need an exclusive FPS? At least we know there wont be such a dearth in the genre for them this time around. Nvidia tools + beefy hardware have gotten a lot of Western PC based devs that wouldnt go 100 yards near a PS2 SDK fully on board, Starbreeze and Crytek being some recent examples. What was essentially an exclusive genre for MS is now likely going to be a pretty decent part of PS3's third party catalogue.

That said if your looking for a quality FPS from Sony's first party, Insomniacs offering has a lot more prospects going for it than Guerrilla's if you ask me. Ted Price and crew will bring the goods.

I don't believe these PC developers. Epic did the same thing before the PS2 launch, this Epic tool came on Electric Playground and said he was very excited about PS2 and they would this and that but all they did was deliver a shoddy port of UT that ran at pathetic a frame rate. I am only expecting shoddy ports from them again: UT2007, Woflenstine, Crisis or whatever will be a last minute hack job.

I-8 doesn't look that hot. It looks like another WWII game except it has mutants or aliens or whatever. I don't think that it can compete with Halo or Metroid, those games have cool original stories.

*cough*Criterion*cough*

Jak III's streaming engine bitch slaps renderware.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

They still got to do something about that controller!! I really am eager at what they come up with over the "temporary" show controller. X360 controller is just fantastic.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

I don't believe these PC developers. Epic did the same thing before the PS2 launch, this Epic tool came on Electric Playground and said he was very excited about PS2 and they would this and that but all they did was deliver a shoddy port of UT that ran at pathetic frame rate.

I-8 doesn't look that hot. It looks like another WWII game except it has mutants or aliens or whatever. I don't that it can compete with Halo or Metroid, those games have cool original stories.



Jak III's streaming engine bitch slaps renderware.

Considering that Sony are licensing out Epic's UE3 engine says loads of how much things changed. They are pretty prepared this time on all fronts.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

Considering that Sony are licensing out Epic's UE3 engine says loads of how much things changed.

But do we know how good that engine looks on PS3? Do we know well that engine performs on PS3? No we don't! Let’s not rule out the possibility of a sabotage PS3 campaign by MS

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

But do we know how good that engine looks on PS3? Do we know well that engine performs on PS3? No we don't! Let’s not rule out the possibility of a sabotage PS3 campaign by MS

They already demoed it at E3. 60 fps at that back in E3 2005 for something that comes out 2006, sounds pretty hopeful and besides it's Epic's middleware tech, it goes to any buyer. The best you get out of it is what the teams can do. Several games on X360 use it and you couldn't even tell it's the same engine if they didn't tell you.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

They already demoed it at E3. 60 fps at that back in E3 2005 for something that comes out 2006, sounds pretty hopeful.

That demo had no game logic or ai. It was just a cut scene. I want to see the final engine running on PS3, I want to see a game running on that engine before I believe epic. We really don’t know how they are doing with cell right now

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

I-8 doesn't look that hot. It looks like another WWII game except it has mutants or aliens or whatever. I don't think that it can compete with Halo or Metroid, those games have cool original stories.

Well I'll wait until I see more than a 1:30 real-time trailer of a game probably less than 30% completed with little to no background on its plot or gameplay before Im about to disregard its potential quality. I'll just stick to track record for now.

And for a game that early it looked pretty damn good I thought. 60fps, dozens of characters on screen, good looking shader effects, hanging dust particle fx on the explosions, physics collision on the cars, nice detailed animation on the monsters. Thats what they had up and running nearly 8 months ago, Im pretty curious to see how its evolved since then.

 

[Link]

Which coincidently is probably PS2's best technical developers, even Half-Life 2's Gabe Novel said he thought they are probably the best team for multithreaded programming. I can't wait to see that techically proven team work their stuff on PS3.

*cough*Criterion*cough*

I think you meant to cough "Team Kojima."

 

[Doom_Bringer]

Well I'll wait until I see more than a 1:30 real-time trailer of a game probably less than 30% completed with little to no background on its plot or gameplay before Im about to disregard its potential quality. I'll just stick to track record for now.

And for a game that early it looked pretty damn good I thought. 60fps, dozens of characters on screen, good looking shader effects, hanging dust particle fx on the explosions, physics collision on the cars, nice detailed animation on the monsters. Thats what they had up and running nearly 8 months ago, Im pretty curious to see how its evolved since then.

yeah a track record of making childish stories *cough*

Yeah the game did look good but most of the assets weren't in place. Same gun model, same enemy model, same allied model but yeah the particle effects, physics, animation were fantastic. I am sure it will be a lot of fun.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Sony seems to be going after a piece of the FPS market with I8 and they seem to be pumping lots of money and hype into the Killzone franchise. Having MoH: Airborne as a launch showcase title could also be big if it delivers, even if its not exclusive. Don't forget, even though its not a FPS, they also have the SOCOM franchise, which could get even more mass appeal if they integrate some kind of XboxLive-style online community. At the end of the day, they don't really need a "Halo-killer". People will look to Halo if they want Halo, just like they go to Gran Turismo if they want realistic car sims, or GTA if they want sandbox/crime games.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Not a thread jack, but this is a PS3 thread. Wasn't there a JP site that was supposed to be posting new pics and info on a few unnamed PS3 titles on 1/24? That would be right for Japan. Anyone remember the link? I'm having trouble searching for it. PEACE.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

http://gameinfo.yahoo.co.jp/info/special/closeup/muchu7/gameinfo/ps3/gamesoft.html

OH SHIT, THEY UPDATED.

 

[Mrbob]

That demo had no game logic or ai. It was just a cut scene. I want to see the final engine running on PS3, I want to see a game running on that engine before I believe epic. We really don’t know how they are doing with cell right now

Epic already has UT 2007 running at 50FPS on incomplete PS3 hardware.

 

[Doom_Bringer]

hmm some stuff looks new to me

The first pic is new but the rest are from the Jap mag. Capcom never released em on the web.

They have an update on the Vampire 360 game too

 

[Pimpwerx]

http://gameinfo.yahoo.co.jp/info/special/closeup/muchu7/gameinfo/ps3/gamesoft.html

OH SHIT, THEY UPDATED.

Yeah, but not really worth the wait. Thanks though. PEACE.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

I don't remember the Genji 2 picture. And WTF is up with that first picture of DMC?

 

[Gattsu25]

hmm some stuff looks new to me

The first pic is new but the rest are from the Jap mag. Capcom never released em on the web.

They have an update on the Vampire 360 game too

Did they simplify this or is it just me? The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th pics look off compared to what i remembered


also, regarding the original post: great to see that Sony's devs are praising Sony's console

 

[IVYLancets]

EE was a disaster in the early days......developer complaints on that CPU were wide and often....


Funny how in the end it didnt matter since there was a metric ton of great games on that platform anyway

Doubtful. Likely, it doesn't matter now because people are tired of talking about it.