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[Beth Cyra]

:lol I remember that.

I don't think madden ever turned out to look that good.

Haven't been into madden since the SNES days, but god damn I wanted that when I saw it.

 

[InfiniteNine]

First it can't support people in wheelchairs and now it can't support two fat people?

 

[ITA84]

I meant that completely in the context of using a 360 controller with Kinect at the same time. So in Mass Effect for example, instead of the dialog wheel or navigating the inventory system you would do those things verbally or through hand motions. For a game like Heavy Rain instead of all of these convoluted quick time events you would physically do the actions instead of holding x, then o, then revolving the analog stick.... Those sort of experiences, not playing Halo while pointing your finger at the screen and shooting.

I think the controller would get in the way too much for that to work right; inventory management through motions could be nice, but prior to Dragon Quest IX I don't think I've seen it used well in any DS game. For voice recognition you could just use the headset, no?

Anyway, they still have to fix the play-while-sitting issue for all this to work. I've played on the Wii now and then, but I've yet to buy one because in terms of game interface enhancements and innovation it's still behind the DS for me. At the moment Kinect is a very distant 3rd for me (Move as well).

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

mattress not included, only metal frame. plus, i doubt that can support 4 people, one of the customer reviews complains about the middle sagging.

Add "dishonest marketing" under both products then.

 

[goomba]

How many people here have played Wii with four people in the same room?

 

[Beth Cyra]

How many people here have played Wii with four people in the same room?

I have, but I doubt you really care, where are you going with this?

 

[TheHeretic]

How many people here have played Wii with four people in the same room?

I.

 

[makingmusic476]

How many people here have played Wii with four people in the same room?

*raises hand*

And I don't even own four controllers!

 

[The Faceless Master]

I'm certainly no kinect fanboy here, but I really couldnt help but crack up over all the neg emo in this thread.

You guys have proven exactly why Kinect will blow up so awesome (beyond the really well marketed name). As many of you have identified, we (guys who spend more time on sales-age than actually playing "fun" games) simply arent the target - so the fact that we think it sux is proof that they ARE on to something - We dont get "it" - cuz we are the past. MS saw what Nintendo did with expanding the market and are positioning themselves as the next step for that market - as well as expanding to a larger market of people who need NO controller - not just a waggle.

MS has tons of money and research talent. They also happen to be a software company that has based so much on the power of updates.

So much so - that they have managed to introduce the "update" whether it is software or hardware into a previously update-free console market.

Kinect is just the beginning. In the same way the 360 launched and then was improved on, kinect will launch - and be improved on.

We all know that MS's REAL motive here is to get there OS into all the homes and penetrate the market in the same way they have in the office environment.

Many of us realize that our present pointing device - and OS as we know them on PCs (the mouse) is rapidly approaching the end of its life.

Does it not make one iota of sense to some of you - that this whole kinect/natal thing is BIGGER than your dudebro 2.0? That perhaps its the next paradigm shift that will define how we interact with PCs/media devices/players?

Also we know that they have a grandly orchestrated plan and roll-out, we can conjecture all day and the truth will not be known until its known.

So, yes, kinect may have a bunch of problems right now (doesnt work with black people etc), but you can be guaranteed that MS will update the HW and SW until it matches their vision.

Oh - and really what game would you need top really track 4 entire bodies in your HUGE den with your HUGE TVS??

i think you're missing that many of us are saying the casual gamer expects to be able to play some 4 player games, as evident with some of the top selling Wii games.

 

[Unknown One]

I have and only thing we played was Wii Sports bowling.

 

[ITA84]

How many people here have played Wii with four people in the same room?

Other than having enough room for 4 people to play at the same time, one of the biggest problems in Wii 4-player games is having enough controllers. Since Kinect does away with that, throwing away that advantage can't be good.

 

[theultimo]

How many people here have played Wii with four people in the same room?

4 Player NSMB Wii and SSBB are excellent 4 player, you've never tried that any before? You are missing out!

 

[buy teh haloz]

Didn't we have this conversation a few pages back?

 

[The Faceless Master]

How many people here have played Wii with four people in the same room?

does watching 4 other people play count?

i don't recall actually playing Wii with 4 people, but i've done it with 360 and PS3 several times!

 

[markot]

I played NSMBWii alot 4 player. Although we were sitting down >_>!

 

[jump_button]

How many people here have played Wii with four people in the same room?

:lol Someone miss the point in party games

 

[IrishNinja]

mattress not included, only metal frame. plus, i doubt that can support 4 people, one of the customer reviews complains about the middle sagging.

there's always craigslist.

 

[Foxix Von]

How many people here have played Wii with four people in the same room?

I have, heck plenty of times. Most people just bring their own controllers. And I'd like to add that in nearly every occasion we were seated quite comfortably to boot.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Didn't we have this conversation a few pages back?

Shhh. This is the Gaf version of the Loop.

 

[CozMick]

Why are some people still thinking that this will fail?

It will still be within the law to advertise 4 people playing it.

It will still be within the law to advertise people sitting down waving there arms around while "watching" someone actually playing that is standing up.

Deception is the name of the game here, Microsoft have proved that so far, nothing is stopping them from going commercial with this shit.

Showing just one of those videos would fool my entire family into thinking its the "next-gen" of gaming.

It will sell by the bucket load.

 

[Alx]

Two PSEye and a Wii sensor bar duct taped together.

Hm no, a better analogy would be "One PSEye and 307200 Move bulbs, with the bulbs taped all over the living room and the player's body".

 

[The Faceless Master]

there's always craigslist.

if Craigslist counts, then you might as well say a sofa is free if you get one from a curb alert.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

The MS E3 2009 Natal bullshit is really close to Sony E3 2005. The thing is, some of the Sony's games actually came close to those trailers. Natal did not.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Why are some people still thinking that this will fail?

It will still be within the law to advertise 4 people playing it.

It will still be within the law to advertise people sitting down waving there arms around while "watching" someone actually playing that is standing up.

Deception is the name of the game here, Microsoft have proved that so far, nothing is stopping them from going commercial with this shit.

Showing just one of those videos would fool my entire family into thinking its the "next-gen" of gaming.

It will sell by the bucket load.

As I said earlier, just because they can do it doesn't mean we shouldn't call them on it.

Seriously how is it we get all righeous about bullshots and shit yet when we see stuff like this people are all act like it's okay they are duping people out of their money.

 

[markot]

Hm no, a better analogy would be "One PSEye and 307200 Move bulbs, with the bulbs taped all over the living room and the player's body".

With a giant blackspot if you happen to sit down, and only able to see enough bulbs for 2 people at a time..

 

[The Faceless Master]

Hm no, a better analogy would be "One PSEye and 307200 Move bulbs, with the bulbs taped all over the living room and the player's body".

wouldn't it be 96 move bulbs, since it's 48 points of articulation per person and two people max?

oooh, that's how they could get 4 player support! use full body tracking, but 2nd person stands right behind 1st person and 1st person keeps their left arm down. then only count gestures from one arm per 'player' and bam!

 

[C4Lukins]

I think the controller would get in the way too much for that to work right; inventory management through motions could be nice, but prior to Dragon Quest IX I don't think I've seen it used well in any DS game. For voice recognition you could just use the headset, no?

Anyway, they still have to fix the play-while-sitting issue for all this to work. I've played on the Wii now and then, but I've yet to buy one because in terms of game interface enhancements and innovation it's still behind the DS for me. At the moment Kinect is a very distant 3rd for me (Move as well).

The play while sitting thing completely destroys most of the hardcore aspects of it, which is why I found it so hard to believe initially that this could even be a problem. Which is hopefully something they can fix before launch or shortly after launch, but if not Kinect becomes completely irrelevant as a hardcore device, and any interest I really have in it is gone. I still found the Kinect Adventures and even Kinect Sports demos intriguing but if that is the best they can do then this was a huge misstep. Of course I would have said the same about the Wii in general so maybe it is the most genius idea ever conceived.

 

[CozMick]

As I said earlier, just because they can do it doesn't mean we shouldn't call them on it.

Seriously how is it we get all righeous about bullshots and shit yet when we see stuff like this people are all act like it's okay they are duping people out of their money.

Oh absolutely, don't get me wrong, I'm as much against it as the next guy.

But this new info and the "couch debate" ain't gonna put a dent in sales as some people seem to think.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

if Craigslist counts, then you might as well say a sofa is free if you get one from a curb alert.

Even better.

I'm too lazy to do an update though.

 

[:Motorbass]

How many people here have played Wii with four people in the same room?

All the time. An I did play Bomberman Wii with 8 people. That was nice!

 

[The Faceless Master]

Even better.

I'm too lazy to do an update though.

yeah, but there might be some Kinect curb alerts if it's as bad as some people think it will be...

 

[Alx]

With a giant blackspot if you happen to sit down, and only able to see enough bulbs for 2 people at a time..

wouldn't it be 96 move bulbs, since it's 48 points of articulation per person and two people max?

No and no. Whatever happens, the camera returns the position of the 307200 bulbs... the tricky part is to analyze all this information and translate it to player position (ie, 48 points per player). That's where the current software struggles, either because it's not reliable enough (sitting people) or too expensive (more than 2 people).

 

[CozMick]

All the time. An I did play Bomberman Wii with 8 people. That was nice!

There's always one ;p

 

[The Faceless Master]

No and no. Whatever happens, the camera returns the position of the 307200 bulbs... the tricky part is to analyze all this information and translate it to player position (ie, 48 points per player). That's where the current software struggles, either because it's not reliable enough (sitting people) or too expensive (more than 2 people).

you could say the same thing about the PSEye, it has a 640x480 camera too...

 

[phisheep]

Why are some people still thinking that this will fail?

It will still be within the law to advertise 4 people playing it.

It will still be within the law to advertise people sitting down waving there arms around while "watching" someone actually playing that is standing up.

Deception is the name of the game here, Microsoft have proved that so far, nothing is stopping them from going commercial with this shit.

Showing just one of those videos would fool my entire family into thinking its the "next-gen" of gaming.

It will sell by the bucket load.

Not where I am it isn't. And the Federal Trade Commission might well disagree too.

 

[Mr. Miyato]

4 Player NSMB Wii and SSBB are excellent 4 player, you've never tried that any before? You are missing out!

NSMB Wii and SSBB you would be able to play on a 360 though using the regular controller.

What games are there for Wii (and Move) that has 4 people standing up flailing their arms at the same time?

 

[brain_stew]

It stil isn't coming out for a while, plenty of time to make adjustments in software. Hardware is another story. The hardware seems sound, however, the cost-cutting may come back to haunt MS is they want anything more then 2 players with enough processor time left over for actual gameplay and graphics. There is a reason why the original design had a secondary chip inside.

If they haven't been able to get the software upto scratch after ~2 years, what makes you think they'll be able to achieve such drastic results in an extra few months? Even if they do, developers can't exactly develop towards a brand new API now that their projects are well underway.

Hardware is an issue though. Without any dedicated processing chip, Kinect has to borrow resources from the 360, and they're already thin on the groun even without kinnect support. Apparently the current two player support implementation sucks a 1/3 of the GPU's time in a 30fps game, its just not feasible to hand over any more resources than that.

 

[markot]

NSMB Wii and SSBB you would be able to play on a 360 though using the regular controller.

What games are there for Wii (and Move) that has 4 people standing up flailing their arms at the same time?

Wii tennis? Mario Kart wii? (Minus the standing, most people seem to prefer(casuals!!!!!!!!!!) the steering wheel)

 

[Alx]

you could say the same thing about the PSEye, it has a 640x480 camera too...

Yes but it doesn't have depth measurement on each pixel.
Estimating body motion on a flat image only is much, much harder than with a depth map (+ flat image).

 

[Beth Cyra]

NSMB Wii and SSBB you would be able to play on a 360 though using the regular controller.

What games are there for Wii (and Move) that has 4 people standing up flailing their arms at the same time?

When are people going to understand that the standing and moving aren't the point. It isn't that Xbox 360 controller can't do it but the Wii remote can, the Wii offers both the hardcore experince and the casual experince all in one. To do this on the 360 you need two seperate things and we do not even know if you can truly have both running at the same time.

 

[Steroyd]

Regarding price, I think the 150$ is overestimating it, going by hardware components at least: one 640x480x30FPS RGB camera (basically the same as PSEye), one 640x480x30FPS IR camera (presumably worse than the one in the Wiimote, which is 1024x1024x???FPS), and one mic (like WiiSpeak). The image recognition and tracking software that comes with it however is not without value, I bet we can't just ignore it for the final price.

Microsoft's past tactics teach us that they don't mind pushing underpriced hardware if it means gaining marketshare. While they seem to like selling overpriced accessories, that should not be the case with Kinect, seeing as it should help them sell games and software, so I think they'll go for a price under 100$ in the end (if they don't, they're probably screwed).

I wouldn't be so sure of that, wasn't there a thread a while ago about Microsoft being sick of losing money in the consumer division?

While I'm not going to use that to proclaim the death of Xbox 360 Microsoft going software only etc etc, I don't think they're wiling to lose money on this like they would have 5 years ago.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

How many people here have played Wii with four people in the same room?

Hell, my Wii spends 11 months of the year unhooked in the closet, and even I have, numerous times.

 

[spats]

None of this crap will reach the mainstream press and Microsoft will continue pumping hundreds of millions into marketing and this thing will be smashing success. To your average consumer this thing must be fucking magical.

 

[Mr. Miyato]

Wii tennis? Mario Kart wii? (Minus the standing, most people seem to prefer(casuals!!!!!!!!!!) the steering wheel)

Joy Ride would benefit from 4 player support, I guess. If you would be able to sit down while playing . I'm just thinking it would be rather crowded in front of the television, can't imagine playing Wii Tennis with 4 players :lol . (I only have 2 controllers for my Wii).

 

[qirex99]

i think you're missing that many of us are saying the casual gamer expects to be able to play some 4 player games, as evident with some of the top selling Wii games.

right...

they'll get it

maybe sooner, maybe later

 

[The Faceless Master]

Yes but it doesn't have depth measurement on each pixel.
Estimating body motion on a flat image only is much, much harder than with a depth map (+ flat image).

the tricky part is trickier. oh well...

 

[Beth Cyra]

None of this crap will reach the mainstream press and Microsoft will continue pumping hundreds of millions into marketing and this thing will be smashing success. To your average consumer this thing must be fucking magical.

I still think it is very dangerous to just assume this. Nintendo though similar with the Power glove, Sega with the CD and 32X, hell even motion plus this gen alone.

Marketing is not going to be enough to make it a smashing hit.

 

[markot]

I actually agree. But Microsoft seems to be showing alot of vids with 4 people wiggling in front of kinect >.< so... you know, it should be able to do it.

 

[MNC]

So that video of the family of four having fun was a lie?

Not really, 2 of them were on a couch/chair so they automatically didn't play according to Kintect logic :lol

 

[Wiseblade]

The sitting down issue is pretty much a software problem and isn't really a big issue in the grand scheme of things, but this is a real dealbreaker.

fake edit: I can't believe the lengths people are going though to defend this. :lol