bj00rn_ said:Well, the more you "hardcore gamers" whine and bitch about Kinetic, the more I believe this thing will do pretty good in the market it's targeted for. ..I for one learned my lesson with the Wii.
What annoys me is how little play this is getting even in the gaming press, though I can't say I'm surprised given the nature of game journalism. You'd think it would have been Gamespot and 1up and the like that would have asked the hard questions that would have broken this story--instead it was Kotaku who got confirmation about the seating issue and Joystiq that broke this story days after the conferences. That's saying something.spats said:None of this crap will reach the mainstream press and Microsoft will continue pumping hundreds of millions into marketing and this thing will be smashing success. To your average consumer this thing must be fucking magical.
Exactly. Just look at the PSP Go, GAF complained about all of its faults and that thing flies off shelves so fast you can't even see it moving.bj00rn_ said:Well, the more you "hardcore gamers" whine and bitch about Kinetic, the more I believe this thing will do pretty good in the market it's targeted for. ..I for one learned my lesson with the Wii.
It has to be the X360, remember when Micro pulled the chip out of Natal they made it so that the X360 is doing all the work. And if this is a problem because of CPU power then there is no way adding a second unit to the same X360 will help it.duk said:so if u want 3-4 players u have to get a second natal unit, or max is 2 players per 360?
markot said:I actually agree. But Microsoft seems to be showing alot of vids with 4 people wiggling in front of kinect >.< so... you know, it should be able to do it.
I dont think so, its a 360 limit, processing wise, not the natal unit itself.duk said:so if u want 3-4 players u have to get a second natal unit, or max is 2 players per 360?
bj00rn_ said:Well, the more you "hardcore gamers" whine and bitch about Kinetic, the more I believe this thing will do pretty good in the market it's targeted for. ..I for one learned my lesson with the Wii.
TruePrime said:It has to be the X360, remember when Micro pulled the chip out of Natal they made it so that the X360 is doing all the work. And if this is a problem because of CPU power then there is no way adding a second unit to the same X360 will help it.
bj00rn_ said:Well, the more you "hardcore gamers" whine and bitch about Kinetic, the more I believe this thing will do pretty good in the market it's targeted for. ..I for one learned my lesson with the Wii.
Mr. Miyato said:NSMB Wii and SSBB you would be able to play on a 360 though using the regular controller.
What games are there for Wii (and Move) that has 4 people standing up flailing their arms at the same time?
duk said:so if u want 3-4 players u have to get a second natal unit, or max is 2 players per 360?
The Faceless Master said:the tricky part is trickier. oh well...
gofreak said:That said, wasn't kinect adventures supposedly doing 4 players? Or was that in a different way?
Graphics Horse said:This is getting thoroughly confusing.
If you look at their own site, PrimeSense sell their tech on the basis that you navigate while sitting down, yet it's their own chip that does the skeletal tracking which only works for standing up?
Or is there simpler navigation tech we haven't heard about? If so, why isn't it being used yet, and what processing will the XBox be able to do with the raw data?
Eight Player Multiplayer*Crakatak187 said:I bet Microsoft Marketing will not even mention anything at all. It's not false advertising if nothing is said or shown to mislead from the actual product.
Guy: So will Kinect have 4 player games?
PR: Typical PR spin about how advance Kinect is and how it's a game changer.
Guy: Will I be able to play games while sitting.
PR: The same PR spin we got earlier about this issue.
:lol That's not a couch man.Ignis Fatuus said:
duk said:so if u want 3-4 players u have to get a second natal unit, or max is 2 players per 360?
It's a better product than Kinect!CrushDance said::lol That's not a couch man.
longdi said:More Kinect dirt is dig up and some publication can say Sony has the worst E3, where has the research and unbiased integrity gone to?
longdi said:More Kinect dirt is dig up and some publication can say Sony has the worst E3, where has the research and unbiased integrity gone to?
Metalmurphy said:Out the window when they got free Slims.
Can't MS get in trouble for all the misleading ads? People sitting down, more the 2 players playing etc?
Guess they haven't played them on TV yet right?
TruePrime said:Maybe but as someone pointed out they in no way actually say that the people on the couch are playing, and they can easily say that it is people just getting into as the others play.
Metalmurphy said:Can't MS get in trouble for all the misleading ads? People sitting down, more the 2 players playing etc?
Segata Sanshiro said:Exactly. Just look at the PSP Go, GAF complained about all of its faults and that thing flies off shelves so fast you can't even see it moving.
Metalmurphy said:Considering they are all sitting down and one guy does the "press button" action for the game how don't see how it can be perceived that way.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21977526&postcount=42
Okay, you guys run with your theory that success can be predicted based on going with the opposite of GAF's reaction, and I'll stay here in not-fucking-crazy-town and judge products on a case-by-case basis, okay?NutJobJim said:The only difference is that the PSP Go was targeted at us. It was supposed to be a premium version of a handheld primarily aimed at 18-30 year old males. We were supposed to be the ones buying it.
Kinect is not aimed at us at all.
We are clearly NOT the people that MS is trying to target here.
We see laggy hardware and shovelware software, target demographic sees 'finally no overly complicated controller!' and 'aaaawww look at that cute tiger game!'
Graphics Horse said:This is getting thoroughly confusing.
If you look at their own site, PrimeSense sell their tech on the basis that you navigate while sitting down, yet it's their own chip that does the skeletal tracking which only works for standing up?
Or is there simpler navigation tech we haven't heard about? If so, why isn't it being used yet, and what processing will the XBox be able to do with the raw data?
Ignis Fatuus said:From what I gather from these arguments, Kinect is aimed solely at people who don't know what it actually does.
Segata Sanshiro said:Okay, you guys run with your theory that success can be predicted based on going with the opposite of GAF's reaction, and I'll stay here in not-fucking-crazy-town and judge products on a case-by-case basis, okay?
That much they can still fix in a short time, recognising the push-button motion I mean. Whether it'll be the developers of the game or Microsoft themselves doing that, I don't know, but anything the PSEye can do, Kinect can do it as well, possibly with as much development effort. Four player full-body tracking games, probably not; half-body tracking, possibly: I bet they're working on that, who knows if they'll succeed.Metalmurphy said:Considering they are all sitting down and one guy does the "press button" action for the game how don't see how it can be perceived that way.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21977526&postcount=42
For this strategy to work with Kinect, it must be sold at a profit from the start, and even then it won't last as long as the Wii, being an accessory and all. With the bundles it could be used as a system seller, but still won't help Kinect last any longer, as developers will still have to make games basically from the ground up for it, unless Microsoft helps. Ultimately it's down to how much MS is willing to pour on Kinect, not only in the marketing department.NutJobJim said:My ex gf wanted that Just Dance game.
I tried to explain to her that it wasn't actually dancing, that you just wave a remote around, and that it had poor song selection etc. (I did my research )
She simply didn't care, and in the end I gave up trying to convince her otherwise...
So she gets caught up in the hype, buys the game, loves in for a weekend and then never plays it again...
Same thing as Wii. She played Wii sports in a shop, got caught up in the media hype, asked for one for her birthday, and it now sits in her brothers bedroom.
Now and then she'll buy a game, (she owns Wii Play, Wii Fit, Just Dance, and was given the console in its first year). I think in the yaer that I was with her she played her Wii maybe 2 or 3 times.
NutJobJim said:Maybe youre being sarcastic, but Id agree that this is actually true
Maybe I'm being condescending, but I know plenty of people that get caught up in the gimmick, get sucked in by the advertising, and then buy something without even bothering to find out many of the finer technical aspects.
My ex gf wanted that Just Dance game.
I tried to explain to her that it wasn't actually dancing, that you just wave a remote around, and that it had poor song selection etc. (I did my research :lol)
She simply didn't care, and in the end I gave up trying to convince her otherwise...
So she gets caught up in the hype, buys the game, loves in for a weekend and then never plays it again...
Same thing as Wii. She played Wii sports in a shop, got caught up in the media hype, asked for one for her birthday, and it now sits in her brothers bedroom.
Now and then she'll buy a game, (she owns Wii Play, Wii Fit, Just Dance, and was given the console in its first year). I think in the yaer that I was with her she played her Wii maybe 2 or 3 times.
There are lots of people like this, which is why a good advertising/marketing campaign is just as important, if not MORE important, than the actual product itself.
I'm not making a prediction one way or the other yet, because we don't even know the price, which is going to be the most important factor by far.NutJobJim said:You really can't see that there are some people that will eat this shit up?
Honestly if you'd told me 10 years ago that pet sims, brain training, and danicing games would have taken off, I'd have laughed in your face...
I'm not sure if Kinect is going to be a huge success overnight, but with the right marketing it certainly has potential.
TruePrime said:The big difference for alot of people here is that first weekend she had it, and the fact that alot of people stayed in love with the Wii alot longer then just a weekend and was able to spread that love.
The fear here I think is if Micro can't fix this (and assuming it is the CPU that is the problem for 4 players, they can't.) It won't even get that one weekend because as soon as people turn it on and they take there first break and try to do anything with it the thing will fuck up because it can't respond to you when you are sitting down, or they can't play with their whole family because it only supports two people.
NutJobJim said:That is a valid point, but honestly I'm not sure if only 2 players, and no stand up, is that big of a deal for the people that it's targeting.
I understand that families want to pay together, but they still can...
Mum and Dad play, then the kids get up and play while the parents watch and laugh.
My ex only had 2 Wii motes, yet all four of us (me, her, her brother, her Mum) used to play Wii Play or Wii Sports. We'd just take it in turns, and it was still fun.
As for the sitting thing, the games that are aimed at these people (animal games, mini games, sports games, dancing games) are played standing up anyway...
The menu navigation thing is a bit of a fuck up though, they need to certainly fix that.
TruePrime said:Yes but there is a big difference there, one you just hand someone a remote it takes all of a couple seconds and then everyone is having a good time again. Natal has to recalibrate and rescan someone, how quick is that going to be? Is it even going to have prompts for that kinda thing in between rounds of something like a turn in Mario Party?
There are quite a number of video demonstrations of "jump-in, jump-out" gameplay with Kinect. Once someone stands in front of Kinect, I'd say it takes about 2 seconds before they're playing, at most. I actually think it's an advantage with Kinect. The Wii with motion plus needs to be recalibrated quite a bit ("Please put on a flat surface"), and so far Move looks to be the same. With Wii fit each game has to be calibrated for every persons individual weight.TruePrime said:Yes but there is a big difference there, one you just hand someone a remote it takes all of a couple seconds and then everyone is having a good time again. Natal has to recalibrate and rescan someone, how quick is that going to be? Is it even going to have prompts for that kinda thing in between rounds of something like a turn in Mario Party?
NYR said:Just a general comment. Hardcore gamers (e.g. - GAF) are finding so much wrong with Kinect but what they keep failing to realize is they are not the target market for this product, not even close. Of course a traditional gamer is going to find something wrong with something that is not a traditional way of playing games, that is exactly what Kinect is.
Further, gamers seem to talk as if this so called "bad press" even gets to the actual target market - it likely doesn't because they don't care as much as we do. I was chatting to a co-worker about Kinect, and she was hyped, had no clue about the sitting down stuff. Even with that, she still wanted to try it, as she had put in her time with the Wii and was ready for the next thing.
You can list 100 things "wrong" with the Wii - doesn't change the fact it is kicking the ass of the PS3 and 360 in sales. The Wii, just like Kinect, appeals to the morning show and talk show crowd - once they see it on the Today Show or Oprah, they all want to play it - even if they can only play two at a time.
Diffense said:An idosyncratic product with various 'gotchas' pertaining to its use could really miss the mark with the very market it claims to be targetting.
The hardcore will more quickly tolerate and work around technological deficiencies than the 'casuals' who'll simply return it and say that it doesn't work.
It comes with it, the connection wire pretty much has an adapter to use for either.Shanadeus said:Off topic question:
Do you need to buy a separate power brick for the Kinect if you have the old Xbox?
Or will it be included?