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[OldJadedGamer]

On topic: When do you guys think we'll see a final price for Kinect? mid-september/october makes sense, we'll probably see the bundles adverts in stores by the end of October, I think. The big advertising push will probably start in september as well. I'm still thinking U$150 is not going to be the final price. I'm thinking more along the lines of U$99.

They already said they would reveal it officially in the next two months.

 

[vodka-bull]

It's cool. I shake my head at people who still spell "Microsoft" with a dollar sign.

I shake my head at people who don't.

 

[DangerousDave]

This was know long before E3, people would have known that if they followed the Natal thread. It only works if the game is built up from the ground for Kinect.

This is bullshit. Maybe is their politics, but no game needs to be built up from the ground to be enhanced with a feature.

Unless you say that Burnout Paradise was built up from the ground to be demo-ed with Natal.

 

[TheOddOne]

No proving my point wrong,debate or at least a partial bold quote with something from you to counter my argument.

I say it fits you better.

How can I counter when all I read is jibberish? Ok I'll try.

More applause were hear at the unveiling of Sorcery for move than on the complete MS conference,(taking away the end when they announce free slim for every one).:lol (You mean when they showed it playing right? I heard nobody cheering when it was 'unveiled')

Also if you have the link to were they play forza while been seat it would be nice,since every article i have read point to all demos been done standing up,worst yet unlike last year were you could accelerate and break with your foot in a racing game,this time all was automatic which is pretty pathetic,you just could turn left or right and that was about it. (One game= all games?)

It has been show in multiple movies and gifts,it has lag as hell,character move even when you don't,hell one Kotaku bring in the air,Kinect tracing some one who wasn't in front of the camera while a racing game was demo,and it completely mess up the steering for the person playing. (What?, What does bringing in the air mean anyways?)

That is the real reason why people keep talking about Kinect, and not so much about move,Move release line look solid,and the tech work even better than Nintendo's and is cheaper than Kinect,so what will people complain about,hell the tech even works for hardcore games,so why would any one complain.? (Yes, 50 bucks... but wait there is the navigator and then there is the camera.. so 130 bucks?)

 

[freddy]

I'm thinking 150 dollars is roughly what the thing costs to manufacture and was the preliminary price given to retailers. I'd say right now there's an internal battle going on at Microsoft between the marketing guys feeling the price point is too high and the beancounters because of pressure from shareholders/execs to not have another loss leader on the divisions books.

 

[redbarchetta]

Unless you say that Burnout Paradise was built up from the ground to be demo-ed with Natal.

Burnout was demoed when Natal still had processors built-in. That's no longer the case, as the CPU must now be used to pick up the slack. As such, games, as a matter of practicality, really do need to be designed with Kinect in mind.

 

[Mandoric]

I'm thinking 150 dollars is roughly what the thing costs to manufacture and was the preliminary price given to retailers. I'd say right now there's an internal battle going on at Microsoft between the marketing guys feeling the price point is too high and the beancounters because of pressure from shareholders/execs to not have another loss leader on the divisions books.

Ding-ding-ding.

Spoiler

guess what the hasty departure of the entire entertainment division's management means

 

[DangerousDave]

Burnout was demoed when Natal still had processors built-in. That's no longer the case, as the CPU must now be used to pick up the slack. As such, games, as a matter of practicality, really do need to be designed with Kinect in mind.

3D also require more processor, and Sony solved it reducing the resolution and particles when you play in 3D. The same can be applied if Kinect has a processor cost.

Also, maybe MS developers wants to talk with Socom developers in order to see how to add voice commands in a game without sacrificing resolution.

 

[beast786]

Just a friendly reminder. Not a penny more than 99.00 U.S

 

[TheOddOne]

This is bullshit. Maybe is their politics, but no game needs to be built up from the ground to be enhanced with a feature.

Unless you say that Burnout Paradise was built up from the ground to be demo-ed with Natal.

Their was a dictated chip that MS removed. With that Chip you could integrate it into existing games. Because they removed it, this aint possible more. This again was know months before.

Microsoft drops internal Natal chip

Microsoft has dropped a chip from its forthcoming Natal motion control system to save money, according to our sister site GamesIndustry.biz.

The chip, which was responsible for processing information for the Natal's 'bone system', has apparently been removed in favour of a software solution.

However, development sources have indicated that the change doesn't affect the existing system lag of about 100ms, while a software solution should enable Microsoft to update the system more quickly and regularly than a hardware one, and allow it to hit a speculated price point of less than £50.

The same development sources said that Natal should be able to operate at similar levels of latency to press demos at E3 and gamescom last year despite the change, suggesting it's less than ideal for games like Burnout but pretty good for less twitchy activities.

The load previously handled by the chip now falls on one of the main three Xenon processors, but while taking a "percentage" of performance away from the system, most games don't use up 100 per cent of the available processing power anyway.

"The full Natal hardware/sensor combo always looked like an expensive proposition in a market where Microsoft really needs to turn a profit," commented Eurogamer technology editor Richard Leadbetter, who helped research the story.

"The notion of offloading the processing to the Xbox 360 CPU in the name of lower costs and easier upgradability makes sense. Patching up older games to run with the new hardware now looks rather unlikely unless they have the CPU time to spare, but hopefully this will serve to focus developers on Natal-specific concepts as opposed to revisiting old classics."

The removal of the chip almost guarantees that non-Natal games won't be patched to include motion control support, a point previously outlined by Microsoft Game Studios' Kudo Tsunoda.

"I doubt we'll see any kind of watering down of the Natal concept with this news," Leadbetter continued, "but I'm not so sure about the comments on latency. My experience with Natal at gamescom suggests that the lag is considerably higher than that of a Guitar Hero peripheral. It'll be interesting to see if optimisation of the software layer improves this situation."

Microsoft recently hinted that there was no longer an on-chip solution for Natal in CES literature: "A proprietary software layer makes the magic of Project Natal possible," it said. "This layer differentiates Project Natal from any other technology on the market through its ability to enable human body recognition and extract other visual noise."

It has also emerged that Microsoft will support developers writing their own code to run the bone system processing in the future.

Motion control is likely to be the key battleground for Xbox and PlayStation platform holders in 2010, with both Natal and the Sony's new motion control system set for release. Project Natal is due out "holiday 2010".

 

[FunkyPajamas]

They already said they would reveal it officially in the next two months.

Oh, I didn't know that, thanks. So we're looking at September tops, then. With X10 already out of the way (didn't Microsoft use to do those in sept/oct in Europe?), is there any event in those months that we could use to especulate on a date for the announcement? Gamescon or something like that?

 

[[Nintex]]

Ding-ding-ding.

Spoiler

guess what the hasty departure of the entire entertainment division's management means

Yep, I knew shit had hit the fan at Microsoft when Robbie Bach bailed.

 

[derFeef]

3D also require more processor, and Sony solved it reducing the resolution and particles when you play in 3D. The same can be applied if Kinect has a processor cost.

Also, maybe MS developers wants to talk with Socom developers in order to see how to add voice commands in a game without sacrificing resolution.

Not a good idea to sacrifice graphic features or lower the res of an exisiting game for just putting Kinect support in.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Er.. I don't think he was being serious, was he? We're just fooling around.

but i was agreeing! MS charged $100 for Wifi, Nintendo only charged $30 for Ethernet.

 

[DangerousDave]

Not a good idea to sacrifice graphic features or lower the res of an exisiting game for just putting Kinect support in.

Only if you want to use that features, like with 3D.

 

[DMeisterJ]

On topic: When do you guys think we'll see a final price for Kinect?

What makes you think we haven't seen it yet? (i.e.: The one that is confirmed by every major retailer and MS themselves (on their website)?)

 

[mckmas8808]

Not a good idea to sacrifice graphic features or lower the res of an exisiting game for just putting Kinect support in.

Why not if it's just an option?

 

[WickedLaharl]

http://meodia.com/news/1269/turn-10-pr-thrashing-playstation-move-/

che must of really hurt someones feelings.

 

[derFeef]

Why not if it's just an option?

If it would be an option with two modes, sure. Did not think of that.

 

[DMeisterJ]

http://meodia.com/news/1269/turn-10-pr-thrashing-playstation-move-/

che must of really hurt someones feelings.

I had no idea he was a community manager for forza, I just (mis)took him for an old-fashioned troll with that tag.

 

[Chrange]

I told my daughter that we wouldn't get 'the tiger game' right away because it's too expensive. She came to me today and told me 'grampa will buy it'

Women, even at three years old, know how to get what they want :lol

 

[Jokergrin]

 

[freddy]

http://meodia.com/news/1269/turn-10-pr-thrashing-playstation-move-/

che must of really hurt someones feelings.

Well you had to see it coming. Once you start taking checks from someone you have to live with the fact that your comments are going to be taken in a different light. Whether you agree with what he said or not, using GAF to diss the competition is never a smart move. Look at the page views for this topic.

 

[SeaOfMadness]

Yep, I knew shit had hit the fan at Microsoft when Robbie Bach bailed.

well, Robbie Bach hasn't left yet, and Allard has had absolutely nothing to do with Xbox for several years now. But hey, it makes a good story I guess

 

[JWong]

I told my daughter that we wouldn't get 'the tiger game' right away because it's too expensive. She came to me today and told me 'grampa will buy it'

Women, even at three years old, know how to get what they want :lol

Should get her Eyepet... or a real tiger.

Spoiler

I'd go for the real tiger.

 

[SeaOfMadness]

What makes you think we haven't seen it yet? (i.e.: The one that is confirmed by every major retailer and MS themselves (on their website)?)

Take another look. MS unconfirmed it today

 

[freddy]

Take another look. MS unconfirmed it today

I think the reason the price went up there is because the people running the Microsoft store felt they were losing potential preorders to other online retailers. To preorder you need a place holder price.

 

[DangerousDave]

Take another look. MS unconfirmed it today

Yep, the world is full of games/accesories that were priced higher in the preorder of the company that created it than the launch price.

It's obvious that the launch price was going to be set at 150$. Maybe, only maybe, all that complains helps them decide to put a lower price, even if they lose money with any unit sold.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

What makes you think we haven't seen it yet? (i.e.: The one that is confirmed by every major retailer and MS themselves (on their website)?)

Well, it's not official until Microsoft says so, is it? I honestly believe the "all retailers are working with U$150 as the price" issue is a case of monkey see, monkey do. Once the first retailer started taking preorders, the others followed suit. Disclaimer: this is coming from somebody who has never worked in retail and doesn't know a thing about this. As I have said before, I am prepared to be wrong. It's just my gut feeling.

but i was agreeing! MS charged $100 for Wifi, Nintendo only charged $30 for Ethernet.

:lol alright, alright, sorry!

 

[chespace]

http://meodia.com/news/1269/turn-10-pr-thrashing-playstation-move-/

che must of really hurt someones feelings.

Wow. Such power.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Wow. Such power.

They're gonna laugh at your face!

 

[TheOddOne]

Man, I wish the article name was ''Community PR from Turn 10 bashes Playstation Move''. Now it sounds like whole team of Turn10 hates the Playstation Move. Thats not right.

 

[freddy]

Wow. Such power.

So did you you get a nudge to put in a few words against Move on the forum?

 

[chespace]

Man, I wish the article name was ''Community PR from Turn 10 bashes Playstation Move''. Now it sounds like whole team of Turn10 hates the Playstation Move. Thats not right.

Nope, it's just me and my ol' opinions on Move. And I'm sure I don't need to reiterate.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I shake my head at people who don't.

That sounds like a recipe for neck injury.

 

[JesseZao]

That was one butthurt article.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

http://meodia.com/news/1269/turn-10-pr-thrashing-playstation-move-/

che must of really hurt someones feelings.

GAF - Internet - GAF

 

[Maxwell House]

I think one of the new 360 sku's release this fall that has kinect included in the package could retail at the magic price point of 299.99. It could be a version with a 60 gig hard drive.

 

[Redbeard]

I love how people make the excuse for Kinect by saying "well, it's not meant for you or me..."

As if that statement justifies the decisions Microsoft has made with this peripheral and that because it's not for you then it ultimately doesn't matter for you as gamer.

The problem with this statement is that it certainly does matter for you as a gamer. Because of Kinect, Microsoft has shifted enormous amounts of their alloted gaming division budget towards the Kinect peripheral launch and game development. They've turned a $375 million studio from making core titles like Banjo, Perfect Dark, Kameo, and others to a studio that will now work exclusively on Kinect software. So if you cherished the titles that Rare once made, or had the capability of making, Kinect has essentially destroyed one of Microsoft's biggest core studios for you. They're no longer making games you want. It would be like Sony going to Naughty Dog and Sony Santa Monica studios and telling them to go make a bunch of software that rips off what already exists on the Wii. What Sony has done is outsourced a lot of the development that is Move exclusive, letting their core studios continue doing what they do best.

And I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with a studio shifting its development entirely in support of a peripheral exclusively....but only if that peripheral can be used to enhance the core experience. With Kinect, this is an impossibility.

I guess an argument could be made that if Kinect is successful and more profitable, Microsoft's return on that investment could funnel back into hardcore development, but I've seen nothing from Microsoft to suggest that this would be the case. They've been profitable for quite some time now (they stand to make 1 billion this year) and they're getting rid of studios. If anything, a successful Kinect will more likely be funneled back into the Kinect rather than hardcore title development.

As a core gamer that has no interest in what Kinect has to offer, you should rightfully be angry at the decisions that have been made for the next 5+ years of the Xbox 360.

 

[Mandoric]

Man, I wish the article name was ''Community PR from Turn 10 bashes Playstation Move''. Now it sounds like whole team of Turn10 hates the Playstation Move. Thats not right.

He's paid to represent Turn10's opinions, there isn't exactly an on-off switch for that. Maybe if they want to keep a respectable public image they can hire a spokesman who doesn't get his jollies failing at trolling gaf threads! :lol

Spoiler

or maybe that kind of loose cannon is an acceptable cost of having every two-bit freelancer reluctant to piss off the only sure gig in town when dad kicks them out of the basement.

 

[Jal]

Shopto have this up for £129.99 RRP and £49.99RRP for the games.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I love how people make the excuse for Kinect by saying "well, it's not meant for you or me..."

As if that statement justifies the decisions Microsoft has made with this peripheral and that because it's not for you then it ultimately doesn't matter for you as gamer.

The problem with this statement is that it certainly does matter for you as a gamer. Because of Kinect, Microsoft has shifted enormous amounts of their alloted gaming division budget towards the Kinect peripheral launch and game development. They've turned a $375 million studio from making core titles like Banjo, Perfect Dark, Kameo, and others to a studio that will now work exclusively on Kinect software. So if you cherished the titles that Rare once made, or had the capability of making, Kinect has essentially destroyed one of Microsoft's biggest core studios for you. They're no longer making games you want. It would be like Sony going to Naughty Dog and Sony Santa Monica studios and telling them to go make a bunch of software that rips off what already exists on the Wii. What Sony has done is outsourced a lot of the development that is Move exclusive, letting their core studios continue doing what they do best.

And I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with a studio shifting its development entirely in support of a peripheral exclusively....but only if that peripheral can be used to enhance the core experience. With Kinect, this is an impossibility.

I guess an argument could be made that if Kinect is successful and more profitable, Microsoft's return on that investment could funnel back into hardcore development, but I've seen nothing from Microsoft to suggest that this would be the case. They've been profitable for quite some time now (they stand to make 1 billion this year) and they're getting rid of studios. If anything, a successful Kinect will more likely be funneled back into the Kinect rather than hardcore title development.

As a core gamer that has no interest in what Kinect has to offer, you should rightfully be angry at the decisions that have been made for the next 5+ years of the Xbox 360.

While I've publicly expressed my sadness and disbelief that Rare has gone from the eternal classic Nuts & Bolts to Kinect Sports, I certainly don't blame Kinect or am somehow angry at its existence. MS has been shifting towards a third/second party focus for years now. And if there was absolutely not one piece of worthwhile software being released for the thing, and thusly it showed no potential at all, then sure, I could see where you're coming from.

But, whoops, Dance Central is coming out. Same with any other console or console-related advancement, all I personally need is one experience to confirm its value. For the 360 and Xbox Live, it was Project Gotham Racing 3. For the PSP, it was Wipeout Pure. For Kinect, it's Dance Central. (And to a lesser extent, Child Of Eden.)

So, no. I'm not "angry" about it, "rightfully" or otherwise. It's proven its right to exist. I understand that it clearly has not done so for everyone, but it has for me.

 

[Redbeard]

While I've publicly expressed my sadness and disbelief that Rare has gone from the eternal classic Nuts & Bolts to Kinect Sports, I certainly don't blame Kinect or am somehow angry at its existence. MS has been shifting towards a third/second party focus for years now. And if there was absolutely not one piece of worthwhile software being released for the thing, and thusly it showed no potential at all, then sure, I could see where you're coming from.

But, whoops, Dance Central is coming out. Same with any other console or console-related advancement, all I personally need is one experience to confirm its value. For the 360 and Xbox Live, it was Project Gotham Racing 3. For the PSP, it was Wipeout Pure. For Kinect, it's Dance Central. (And to a lesser extent, Child Of Eden.)

So, no. I'm not "angry" about it, "rightfully" or otherwise. It's proven its right to exist. I understand that it clearly has not done so for everyone, but it has for me.

Do you own a console other than an Xbox 360?

 

[OldJadedGamer]

As a core gamer that has no interest in what Kinect has to offer, you should rightfully be angry at the decisions that have been made for the next 5+ years of the Xbox 360.

It's not just the Kinect but the focus on waggle in general. Look no farther than the Heavy Rain thread how the DLC is delayed indefinitely because they are trying to shoehorn Move controls into it.

Waggle sucks and there is no way around it. All three will be supporting it for a long time coming.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Do you own a console other than an Xbox 360?

I used to have a Wii. But I sold it for more games.

 

[DangerousDave]

Yep, Kinect is obliterating (at least, as core game studios) the few first party studios that Microsoft still has.

In-house
343 Industries: A studio set up to develop future Halo related productions[6]. Probably they'll continue Halo, but they're not Bungie
BigPark: Kinect Joy Ride. They'll continue with more Kinect stuff.
Firebird Studios: Set up to help push the visual boundaries of all Xbox 360 titles. Also working on an unannounced game.[7] It seems more a graphic tools development studio than a game one.
Good Science Studio: Kinect Adventures [8] After this, more kinect stuff
Lionhead Studios: Black & White series, Fable series. Fable III, and part of the team working in Milo. After this, Fable IV and Milo II.
Rare Ltd.: Banjo-Kazooie series, Conker series, Perfect Dark series, Viva Piñata series, Killer Instinct series, Kinect Sports. They just have been kinected
Turn 10 Studios: Forza Motorsport series. Next game... Forza 4
Xbox Live Productions: Fable II Pub Games, South Park Let's Go Tower Defense Play! Probably now dedicated to Kinect, maybe Fable III Pub Games featuring Kinect
Wingnut Interactive: A studio set up in partnership with Peter Jackson to produce "filmic games". Vaporware studio

And now, all the first party studios that Microsoft disbanded the last years. Not because of Kinect, but probably if they didn't spent so many money in Kinect and in CoD DLC exclusive month, some of them could be alive.

ACES Game Studio: Microsoft Flight Simulator series, Combat Flight Simulator series and Microsoft Train Simulator series. Closed on January 23, 2009 in a process of ongoing job cuts due to Financial crisis of 2007–2010.[9][10][11]
Ensemble Studios: Age of Empires series, Age of Mythology, Halo Wars. Disbanded on January 29, 2009.
Carbonated Games: Developed for MSN Games and Windows Live Messenger. Disbanded on March 27, 2008.
Digital Anvil: Brute Force, Freelancer. Disbanded on January 31, 2006.
Hired Gun: Halo 2 for Windows Vista. Disbanded in October 2007.
FASA Studio: MechWarrior series. Disbanded on September 12, 2007.
Indie Built: Amped series, Links series, Top Spin series. Sold off to Take-Two Interactive in October 2004, now disbanded.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Waggle sucks and there is no way around it.

I enjoyed Metroid Prime: Corruption's "waggle" (motion control) implementation. Maybe the way around it is not being an old jaded gamer?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Yep, Kinect is obliterating the few first party studios that Microsoft still has.

Again, this has been going on for years. You might as well blame their partnership with Last.fm.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

nm

 

[DangerousDave]

Again, this has been going on for years. You might as well blame their partnership with Last.fm.

I'm not talking about the disbanded studios, i'm talking about spending half of the current first party studios in kinect stuff. I'll ninja edit to clarify it.