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[Mael]

Did people want a blu ray player for 600? Sales seem to say no. If people want it, they will buy it.

then we're back to circular logic then :
- It's not appealing
- people will want it
- why
- it's priced right and people will want it
- well another product was priced similarly and was seen as overpriced
- well people will buy because they want it
- why

you can see we can go for hours like that

 

[itsgreen]

I will not be purchasing Kinect even at $150. My reasons are best demonstrated by the gif seen below.


Or maybe this is EXACTLY why I WILL purchase Kinect!

Thanks for the 8MB gif.

 

[yankeehater]

Eff that I played Red Dead Redemption from beginning to end in one go.

My life has been significantly shortened.

How is that possible. My time was almost 45 hours when I finished RDR, and I skipped a ton of stuff.

 

[JaggedSac]

You needed to have a Wii console to use Wiifit, you couldn't play Wiifit without buying the balance board package for 100 bucks. Not really any different from Kinect outside Kinect will have far more uses than the balance board. I'm talking about people who already owned Wii's or have 360's already. Don't expect Kinect to have people rush out and buy new 360's for it, but they have already 40 million 360's out there so I don't see how it could'nt potentially succeed. I don't really want it to succeed or like it, but I can see it being a surprise success.

The point is that people were willing to shell out 100 bucks for a peripheral and one game, then people won't be willing to spend 50 bucks more for a package that offers far more? I just don't see price being that much of a hurdle as people are making out, there was people acting like "lol wiifit, who will pay that much for that"

Yep.

Also, it looks like the Canadian retailers have Kinect titles at $39.99.

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product...spx?path=68d31e361275e8e9a16c451cec59e00aen02

http://www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/prod...spx?path=51f716b2473b069e4bbf7c5694adba2fen02

http://www.gamestop.ca/Catalog/ProductDetails.aspx?product_id=295843

 

[BattleMonkey]

then we're back to circular logic then :
- It's not appealing
- people will want it
- why
- it's priced right and people will want it
- well another product was priced similarly and was seen as overpriced
- well people will buy because they want it
- why

you can see we can go for hours like that

Basically the entire thread summed up. Personally no one is right since it can go so many ways, hence why I originally said I could be wrong.

Countless threads like this on gaf throughout it's history, everyone knows how things will go and someone is always surprised or wrong. There never is a clear "who is right". If we listened to GAF hive mind, most everything Wii related was going to be huge failure.

 

[Bad_Boy]

Did people want a blu ray player for 600? Sales seem to say no. If people want it, they will buy it.

Idk, you might bluray helped ps3, and ps3 helped bluray. Remember that blu-ray players were around a thousand bucks when PS3 came out.

Sales sucked because either way you slice it because it was a 600 dollar console.

 

[jaypah]

I agree completely. Still, the Wii Fit comparison makes little sense, considering the Balance board wasn't necessary for anything else but Wii Fit (at the time). Not to mention that the Board came with a game; 100 bucks with game is much easier to swallow than 150 + game price. Anybody who wants the Kinect library Must buy a 360 AND Kinect first - those who wanted Wii Fit only needed a Wii.

...and Wii Fit. together that was like 300 bucks. i understand the point that you're making; people who wanted Wii-Fit already had a Wii. i'm just questioning it because everyone was calling Wii-Fit a system mover that people were buying a Wii for. granted i've never seen the hard data myself but that's where my end of the discussion was coming from. of course that could have been internet talk with no basis in reality :lol

No, I mean that if the core backlash is as intense as it has been (OFF the internet) MS isn't going to be able to rely on leveraging the core 360 fanbase to buoy Kinect. (Read: the people who mainly comprise that 40 million userbase.)

ok, much better worded and both greats points too.

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

You needed to have a Wii console to use Wiifit, you couldn't play Wiifit without buying the balance board package for 100 bucks. Not really any different from Kinect outside Kinect will have far more uses than the balance board.

So "in order to play wii fit you have to buy wii fit?" You seriously can't see how this is different?

 

[longdi]

I did not follow this topic but all said and done, if Kinect dont deliver, the spotlight is back to journalist integrity. Dishonest marketing is dishonest, free gifts or not! quite disappointed Ms has turned so greatly and getting a free pass.

 

[JaggedSac]

So "in order to play wii fit you have to buy wii fit?" You seriously can't see how this is different?

The point the poster is making is that you need a Wii+Wii Balance Board to play WiiFit. Which is $300. So anyone who doesn't own a Wii and wanted to play WiiFit, that is the cost of entry. Same as someone who wants to play a Kinect title and doesn't own a 360, can get the Kinect Arcade bundle for $300.

 

[BattleMonkey]

So "in order to play wii fit you have to buy wii fit?" You seriously can't see how this is different?

Depends on what your trying to say. I'm not saying Kinect is going to sell consoles and never did, I'm talking about people who already have 360's, same as people who already owned Wii's and wanted Wiifit.

I don't believe one bit Kinect is going to sell consoles, in that regard it will be a failure to me, but I can see it selling to the usebase which already has 360's

 

[Mael]

The point the poster is making is that you need a Wii+Wii Balance Board to play WiiFit. Which is $300. So anyone who doesn't own a Wii and wanted to play WiiFit, that is the cost of entry. Same as someone who wants to play a Kinect title and doesn't own a 360, can get the Kinect Arcade bundle for $300.

the thing is while Wiifit was a system seller, the Wii was certainly no dog either.
I mean it's not like there's no other software on it that sell and have some kind of overlap either (heck it was also seen as the HEALTHY choice for a console too, along with Brain Training and all that stuff).
I mean if we're comparing the situations might as well go the long way

 

[Tormentoso]

The price of Kinect aint final, talk to me when we officially know the real price. Second we don't know the pricing of games, no rumours are not facts.

This again is jumping the ship, as you have done time and time again.

Nice that you have a camera and a DSC3, it does not make the price any lower for other people that don't have those. So for people who don't want to play with their DSC3, have to pay for the controller, navigator, camera and game. So in total its 150 bucks, right? Let me even further exaggerate, how about if you wanted to play a four player game? Hell thats a nice feature Move has. Lets see, then in total you have to fork over 80 (Controller + Navigator) x 4 = 320 bucks.

The rumoured pricing for Kinect is too high, but that counts for Move also.

Is incredible how i jump the ship,yet you don't when every site has Kinect priced at $149,the thing hit on November and MS refuse to come forward and say the price,something is not right.

$150 in what world in yours.?

There is a Move bundle camera+Move+Sport Champions game+ a demo disc =$99 dollars.

Add on top of that $30 for the sub controller and is $130,for 4 things not just 1 four things,2 controllers a camera and a game,with Kinect $149 camera and move on,you may think i am speculating but so is every one who think the price is not $149 when every site has it on that price.

Oh by the way isn't $80 what Wii fans had been spend for each complete controller.? At least on PS3 you have and option,even that some don't want to admit it because it doesn't serve well their arguments,the sub controller is not mandatory no matter what any one here say,sure is would not be as good but it is that way,and on Wii you just don't have that option.


Hell you most see move as xbox fans have see the arcade 360 for years,sure is gimped but you have the option of buying things latter,on Kinect is one price obligatory,on Move you pay for each thing separate if you want,allowing you to purchase those separately and avoiding doing a huge investment in one big payment.


Hell i will now really speculate.

Could it be by any chance,that they real price is $189 and that MS is allowing all those sites to put the $149,so that when they real price hit all of those who had the tech already pre-buy pay the $149 price thanks to store policy's or some launch deal.?

Now that is speculative,but coming from MS who priced a Network adapter at $100 when on PC you could buy them for as low as $20 something,or the HDD for $99 that they sold for years,which was also on the PC market been sold for less than half that price,i would not be surprise.

 

[Mael]

Is incredible how i jump the ship,yet you don't when every site has Kinect priced at $149,the thing hit on November and MS refuse to come forward and say the price,something is not right.

$150 in what world in yours.?

There is a Move bundle camera+Move+Sport Champions game+ a demo disc =$99 dollars.

Add on top of that $30 for the sub controller and is $130,for 4 things not just 1 four things,2 controllers a camera and a game,with Kinect $149 camera and move on,you may think i am speculating but so is every one who think the price is not $149 when every site has it on that price.

Oh by the way isn't $80 what Wii fans had been spend for each complete controller.? At least on PS3 you have and option,even that some don't want to admit it because it doesn't serve well their arguments,the sub controller is not mandatory no matter what any one here say,sure is would not be as good but it is that way,and on Wii you just don't have that option.


Hell you most see move as xbox fans have see the arcade 360 for years,sure is gimped but you have the option of buying things latter,on Kinect is one price obligatory,on Move you pay for each thing separate if you want,allowing you to purchase those separately and avoiding doing a huge investment in one big payment.


Hell i will now really speculate.

Could it be by any chance,that they real price is $189 and that MS is allowing all those sites to put the $149,so that when they real price hit all of those who had the tech already pre-buy pay the $149 price thanks to store policy's or some launch deal.?

Now that is speculative,but coming from MS who priced a Network adapter at $100 when on PC you could buy them for as low as $20 something,or the HDD for $99 that they sold for years,which was also on the PC market been sold for less than half that price,i would not be surprise.

I'm sorry I didn't understand half or more of what you said.
That or

His arguments are weak and his points are invalid

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

Depends on what your trying to say. I'm not saying Kinect is going to sell consoles and never did, I'm talking about people who already have 360's, same as people who already owned Wii's and wanted Wiifit.

I don't believe one bit Kinect is going to sell consoles, in that regard it will be a failure to me, but I can see it selling to the usebase which already has 360's

For a person who already has a Wii, they buy Wii Fit. It costs $90, ($100 for WFP) and comes with the required balance board in the box. You are buying a game and getting the required accessory with your purchase. Nintendo does not sell the balance board as a standalone item. I'm not aware of any other games besides Wii Fit which require the balance board to play (are there any?).

For a person who already has a 360, they buy Kinect. It costs (presumably) $150, and enables you to then spend more money on a Kinect game like Kinectimals, or other retail games which REQUIRE this camera to be purchased in order to function.

Kinect is more analagous to the 32X than the Wii Fit board.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Tormentosos post is epic :lol

 

[venne]

For a person who already has a Wii, they buy Wii Fit. It costs $90, ($100 for WFP) and comes with the required balance board in the box. You are buying a game and getting the required accessory with your purchase. Nintendo does not sell the balance board as a standalone item. I'm not aware of any other games besides Wii Fit which require the balance board to play (are there any?).

For a person who already has a 360, they buy Kinect. It costs (presumably) $150, and enables you to then spend more money on a Kinect game like Kinectimals, or other retail games which REQUIRE this camera to be purchased in order to function.

Kinect is more analagous to the 32X than the Wii Fit board.

So is this an indictment of the versatility and value of Wii Fit, a critique of the unannounced pricing/pack-in software of Kinect, or both?

 

[Tormentoso]

Tormentosos post is epic :lol

They always are where ever i go,even more with my broken English..:lol

 

[Neuromancer]

Could it be by any chance,that they real price is $189 and that MS is allowing all those sites to put the $149,so that when they real price hit all of those who had the tech already pre-buy pay the $149 price thanks to store policy's or some launch deal.?

Wait what

 

[pr0cs]

Wait what

Yep, pretty sure someone is off their meds today.
I don't think I've seen anyone not remotely interested in something be so willing to talk about it.

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

So is this an indictment of the versatility and value of Wii Fit, a critique of the unannounced pricing/pack-in software of Kinect, or both?

I was differentiating between selling a "game that requires an included accessory" and selling an "add-on platform" without judging either.

 

[Tormentoso]

In the end just making a retrospective of page 19 we in deed look like 8 years old,adding cost left and right,in reality the real target of Kinect and Move are those who actually fell for the $250 Wii and their $80 dollar controllers,can we blame MS and Sony for trying.? One may have more hardcore games than the other,and one may work better as well,but the fact is the actual real target is Nintendo's casuals players.

 

[Tormentoso]

Yep, pretty sure someone is off their meds today.
I don't think I've seen anyone not remotely interested in something be so willing to talk about it.

Actually what i mean to say was that what if MS haven't come clean with the price,because it actually higher than the $149 already post every where.

If by any chance the tech is higher in price,all the stores who pre-sold the tech at $149 most sell the item for that price,at least those who has price warranty.

Now i was highly speculating and just messing around with the dude,who was quoting me.

 

[Mael]

In the end just making a retrospective of page 19 we in deed look like 8 years old,adding cost left and right,in reality the real target of Kinect and Move are those who actually fell for the $250 Wii and their $80 dollar controllers,can we blame MS and Sony for trying.? One may have more hardcore games than the other,and one may work better as well,but the fact is the actual real target is Nintendo's casuals players.

Dude most people didn't even bother with multiple controllers either, I mean I know I bought mine because we couldn't be bothered bringing controllers every time we wanted to do some wiisports or nsmbw.
It's not like the fucking dual shock was free either

Now i was highly speculating and just messing around with the dude,who was quoting me.

that's for me?
Man you're already using Kinect? :O

 

[FoneBone]

Lots of people talking about Kinect, whether it's the potential, speculating about its limits, or the price point. Truth is, folks are talking about Kinect and the word is spreading.

As long as you're dominating the news cycle! Driving the conversation!


If you can actually believe what you're typing, I salute you, though. That kind of distance from reality is genuinely impressive.

 

[TheOddOne]

Is incredible how i jump the ship,yet you don't when every site has Kinect priced at $149,the thing hit on November and MS refuse to come forward and say the price,something is not right. (Are you in the future?)

$150 in what world in yours.? (what does this even mean?)

There is a Move bundle camera+Move+Sport Champions game+ a demo disc =$99 dollars.

Add on top of that $30 for the sub controller and is $130,for 4 things not just 1 four things,2 controllers a camera and a game,with Kinect $149 camera and move on,you may think i am speculating but so is every one who think the price is not $149 when every site has it on that price. (What?)

Oh by the way isn't $80 what Wii fans had been spend for each complete controller.? At least on PS3 you have and option,even that some don't want to admit it because it doesn't serve well their arguments,the sub controller is not mandatory no matter what any one here say,sure is would not be as good but it is that way,and on Wii you just don't have that option. (Your argument is mute, because Wii owners have the same option)

Hell you most see move as xbox fans have see the arcade 360 for years,sure is gimped but you have the option of buying things latter,on Kinect is one price obligatory,on Move you pay for each thing separate if you want,allowing you to purchase those separately and avoiding doing a huge investment in one big payment. (Read my comment above, applies to Xbox.)


Hell i will now really speculate.

Could it be by any chance,that they real price is $189 and that MS is allowing all those sites to put the $149,so that when they real price hit all of those who had the tech already pre-buy pay the $149 price thanks to store policy's or some launch deal.? (BEHAHHAHAHAHAH)

Now that is speculative,but coming from MS who priced a Network adapter at $100 when on PC you could buy them for as low as $20 something,or the HDD for $99 that they sold for years,which was also on the PC market been sold for less than half that price,i would not be surprise. (Only broken valid argument)

Thats what I could decipher. Also why do you keep doing this: .?

 

[Mael]

As long as you're dominating the news cycle! Driving the conversation!


If you can actually believe what you're typing, I salute you, though. That kind of distance from reality is genuinely impressive.

Well you know the best ideas are hard to pass up, I mean I too would have made a public park and waste disposal on the same place, just thinking of the tax break is insane

Spoiler

Seriously what the hell is bone's author doing

 

[FoneBone]

Spoiler

Seriously what the hell is bone's author doing

Writing one of the best comics on the market?

 

[Tormentoso]

Dude most people didn't even bother with multiple controllers either, I mean I know I bought mine because we couldn't be bothered bringing controllers every time we wanted to do some wiisports or nsmbw.
It's not like the fucking dual shock was free either



that's for me?
Man you're already using Kinect? :O

Wow dude calm down...


And no the DS3 is not free but is $55 dollars not $80,and all the people i know who own a Wii had 2 full controllers or more,non had one not even my dad who own one with the wii balance board.

 

[Mael]

Writing one of the best comics on the market?

huh? it's done now I mean they even translated it and released it here on the other side of the sea!
I meant what he's doing NOW, unless he's written bone now and manage to use his time machine to ship it in the past :-/
in which case he's commanding even more respect than ever! :O

Thats what I could decipher. Also why do you keep doing this: .?

:O

Wow dude calm down...


And no the DS3 is not free but is $55 dollars not $80,and all the people i know who own a Wii had 2 full controllers or more,non had one not even my dad who own one with the wii balance board.

You said you were messing with the guy quoting you, I only saw me that quoted you so I assume that you made post knowing I would react like that. Just like Kinect you can actually predict the future!!!

You act like 55 bucks is cheap, anyway they get away with it because their local multiplayer games are awesome, ds3 may be cheaper but unless they make something that I really want to play with someone I know in the same room I'm not shelling that much for that.
And I have 4 wiimotes

 

[TheOddOne]

:O

I tried my best, my head is hurting now.

Also he reminds me of this gif:

 

[FoneBone]

huh? it's done now I mean they even translated it and released it here on the other side of the sea!
I meant what he's doing NOW, unless he's written bone now and manage to use his time machine to ship it in the past :-/
in which case he's commanding even more respect than ever! :O

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1888963204/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[Mael]

I tried my best, my head is hurting now.

Also he reminds me of this gif:

that's why I didn't even try

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1888963204/?tag=neogaf0e-20

:O :O ) )

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG
Well excuse me I gotta go...

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

...and Wii Fit. together that was like 300 bucks. i understand the point that you're making; people who wanted Wii-Fit already had a Wii. i'm just questioning it because everyone was calling Wii-Fit a system mover that people were buying a Wii for. granted i've never seen the hard data myself but that's where my end of the discussion was coming from. of course that could have been internet talk with no basis in reality :lol

Yeah, I tend to get a bit long winded in my points. That is essentially what I was saying. Now that's not saying that Kinect won't turn into a phenomenon that will light the store shelves ablaze (though I seriously doubt it) however the leap with the 360 and Kinect is far greater than with The Wii/Wii Fit.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Che I want to know what you think of the little Forza walk around the car demo you guys made for E3?
Did people on the show-floor find it impressive? Was it something you were demoing at your booth or were you only doing the racing section.

 

[Tormentoso]

Thats what I could decipher. Also why do you keep doing this: .?

Actually what you are doing is trying to downplay my arguments using stupid ass comments,let me help you.


Are you in the future?)

What the hell ^^ does that mean,why should i.? iI just stated that he was jumping the ship as much as i was.


Your argument is mute, because Wii owners have the same option)


I can play any Move game without the sub controller,can you play Mario Galaxy without a nun chuck.? Can you play Wii sport resort without motion plus.?


(Read my comment above)

You can play all the games with a core 360,you can't play all wii games without a Nun chuck.


BEHAHHAHAHAHAH

I was making fun of him so sad you did not get it,maybe because you are taking this to serious.


(Only broken valid argument)

And even on this you had to add something bad about it,which only proves that even when you know some one is completely right it takes allot of work for you to let it go and admit some one is right.

 

[bedlamite]

Is Tormentoso on Sony's payroll or something? I mean, damn

 

[Tormentoso]

huh? it's done now I mean they even translated it and released it here on the other side of the sea!
I meant what he's doing NOW, unless he's written bone now and manage to use his time machine to ship it in the past :-/
in which case he's commanding even more respect than ever! :O



:O



You said you were messing with the guy quoting you, I only saw me that quoted you so I assume that you made post knowing I would react like that. Just like Kinect you can actually predict the future!!!

You act like 55 bucks is cheap, anyway they get away with it because their local multiplayer games are awesome, ds3 may be cheaper but unless they make something that I really want to play with someone I know in the same room I'm not shelling that much for that.
And I have 4 wiimotes

Not i don't act like $55 is cheap but then again,$50 for a 360 controller without motion or rechargeable battery look even worst,not to mention that $80 dollar controller.

Look dude any one who cheer for the 360,can't actually talk about expensive thing and rape,Wii owners either, i know the PS3 came at $600 and still $300 now but is a much better value in almost every single department that the other 2 consoles are,probably even from a controller point of view.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

Was it something you were demoing at your booth or were you only doing the racing section.

Both.

 

[flyinpiranha]

Is Tormentoso on Sony's payroll or something? I mean, damn

I think half of GAF is on Sony's payroll when it comes to getting RAGED at Kinect ... FUCKING KINECT, JUST STOP EXISTING!

Not i don't act like $55 is cheap but then again,$50 for a 360 controller without motion or rechargeable battery look even worst,not to mention that $80 dollar controller.

Look dude any one who cheer for the 360,can't actually talk about expensive thing and rape,Wii owners either, i know the PS3 came at $600 and still $300 now but is a much better value in almost every single department that the other 2 consoles are,probably even from a controller point of view.

Sony payroll confirmed. He's talking up the MC in the DS3/SIXAXIS like it's actually worth something.

 

[JesseZao]

Not i don't act like $55 is cheap but then again,$50 for a 360 controller without motion or rechargeable battery look even worst,not to mention that $80 dollar controller.

Look dude any one who cheer for the 360,can't actually talk about expensive thing and rape,Wii owners either, i know the PS3 came at $600 and still $300 now but is a much better value in almost every single department that the other 2 consoles are,probably even from a controller point of view.

Words...escape me.

 

[Tormentoso]

Is Tormentoso on Sony's payroll or something? I mean, damn

No but i am a huge Sony fan,i don't deny that but how is that any different from those here defending MS at broken back.?

 

[PhatSaqs]

No but i am a huge Sony fan,i don't deny that but how is that any different from those here defending MS at broken back.?

:lol :lol :lol

 

[flyinpiranha]

No but i am a huge Sony fan,i don't deny that but how is that any different from those here defending MS at broken back.?

Uh ... because it's a Kinect thread. Usually these things have people who are interested in the product ... or in this particular products case a shit ton of people just bitching about every random little thing they can see and make a .gif of.

 

[venne]

I was differentiating between selling a "game that requires an included accessory" and selling an "add-on platform" without judging either.

Platform. Accessory. That's just semantics.

Here's a list of games that support the Wii balance board. Since lots of titles use it, does it now become a platform in your eyes?

 

[Tormentoso]

I think half of GAF is on Sony's payroll when it comes to getting RAGED at Kinect ... FUCKING KINECT, JUST STOP EXISTING!




Sony payroll confirmed. He's talking up the MC in the DS3/SIXAXIS like it's actually worth something.

And i am the blind fanboy,so i wonder what cost most putting motion on the DS3 even that it suck,or not putting it at all,come one i am talking from a component point of view,the DS3 has motion sensors (not wii like) but have them,and has build in rechargeable battery,the xbox 360 controller lack any of those 2 components and still is $50 get my point now.

 

[JesseZao]

And i am the blind fanboy,so i wonder what cost most putting motion on the DS3 even that it suck,or not putting it at all,come one i am talking from a component point of view,the DS3 has motion sensors (not wii like) but have them,and has build in rechargeable battery,the xbox 360 controller lack any of those 2 components and still is $50 get my point now.

I think I figured out this guy's "assigned" angle. He jumps into threads to spout pro-sony vom, while making anything he writes induce headaches. This then causes people to bail-out of the topic, no longer keeping themselves updated about the original topic.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Both.

Ahh cool thanks.

I am confused of the appeal of the walk around the car thing. I am not really into cars outside of thinking the Aston Martin Vanquish looks like sex on wheels so its probably not meant to appeal to me but the whole interaction with the car looks like something we have been able to "virtually" do for about the last decade using a internet browser and flash.

I think it was smart for them to take out the acceleration and such from the actual game-play demo. If that was set-up in a walmart and people could just walk up and start using their hands to steer the car I think people are going to be absolutely blown away.

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

Platform. Accessory. That's just semantics.

Here's a list of games that support the Wii balance board. Since lots of titles use it, does it now become a platform in your eyes?

How many of those games require the balance board?

 

[Tormentoso]

Uh ... because it's a Kinect thread. Usually these things have people who are interested in the product ... or in this particular products case a shit ton of people just bitching about every random little thing they can see and make a .gif of.

Dude that doesn't mean that pros and cons can't be discus,it has been that way since i enter the thread,and i wasn't the first to complain about its weakness.

For starters more important than the price,is the fact that the tech has problem while you are sit on a couch,something MS has heavily advertise,since it was only know as Natal,hell people say that MS is going completely at the casual market,but that is now.

Because in the unveiling on last year E3 they clearly say how they would provide core gamers with a level of control they never dream possible.

In fact i tell you this last E3 from what i saw,it looked like MS was way ahead of sony's move tech,which only showed some empty bland demos,but now we know many things were faked,what we did not imagine is that they would continue to fake things this E3 as well with the tech been so close to release.

And refuse to come forward and spit the price,so close to release you have to see that.