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[TheOddOne]

Let's see:

2 Xboxes - $400

2 Kinects - $300

So about $700 dollars for some 4 player kinect action. I was also a bit lenient because I didn't add in the extra cost of a TV if you need another one.

Well for 4 player action on PS3, it would come close to 660 dollars (console + 3 extra controllers with navigator + Camera).

Hmm, so $150 seems like the right price for a 2 player party game style experience after all.

:lol

 

[freddy]

Looks like the competition for shelf space this Christmas between Move and Kinect will be the first battle fought in this war. Pricing of software as well as hardware will be key in convincing retailers. Little wonder the PR from Microsoft at this stage is being directed against Move.

 

[TheOddOne]

Looks like the competition for shelf space this Christmas between Move and Kinect will be the first battle fought in this war. Pricing of software as well as hardware will be key in convincing retailers. Little wonder the PR from Microsoft at this stage is being directed against Move.

Che = Microsoft? In that case, Che for the love of god make the next PGR. You have enough moniez

Pew Pew Pew? This battle is hilarous and you should not get so worked up. Think of the mems that will created in the next 6 months, this is the golden age.

 

[Redbeard]

We've had this discussion many times in the project natal thread. It could be as simple as leaning slightly forward = walk, more forward=run, lean back = backward, turn right = move left shoulder forward, etc.

Oh, I know of many "simple" solutions

I don't know of any gesture based solutions I would actually EVER want to use.

They are all gimmicky and cumbersome.

I know you're going to bitch about having to lean forward for "hours" on end. All I can say is stand up and actually try it. Leaning slightly forward is not uncomfortable and can be maintained for a long time.

Yeah, that's the problem

And actually, leaning forward is a huge problem, I'm normally slumped back in a couch when playing games.

Furthermore, you'd have to stand, and doing that for hours like you suggested would be terrible.

This is all new territory and I expect MS to perfect the technology and human controls over the years. Right now, it's just party games. I can see how collective gaf doesn't want that, but take a look outside gaf and you'll see A LOT of hype for Kinect along with A LOT of positive impressions from those who have had a chance in front of the thing.

Seems like a lot of wishful thinking for Microsoft to 'perfect' the kinect experience and provide for hardcore games and experiences that aren't on-rails when they haven't shown anything to suggest that they can even come close to perfecting even the most basic, casual experiences.

I've seen mostly negative impressions from core gamers regarding hands on kinect play, and I've seen a lot of impressions that could be construed as positive by those that are simply impressed by the novelty of the device rather than the practicality.

 

[bedlamite]

It's been said in the other 347238 Kinect threads, but yeah, shit's getting out of control

 

[freddy]

Che = Microsoft? In that case, Che for the love of god make the next PGR. You have enough moniez

Pew Pew Pew? This battle is hilarious and you should not get so worked up. Think of the memes that will created in the next 6 months, this is the golden age.

I'm not worked up at all. That comment I made about you worrying what others think too much must've stung the other day more than I thought.
I apologise. It wasn't meant as a slur of any kind it was good natured in its intent. Peace?

 

[redbarchetta]

My problem with Zelda is mostly with the fact that 1:1 sword swinging and shield bashing just seems redundant for what basically amounts to the same moves/results (dead enemies).

But it doesn't, unless you're taking the position that only the result matters and not anything inbetween. The 1:1 sword mechanic enables the new combat system, which is almost a meta-game, if you will. Identifying when and which way to swing does make it feel new and adds a new strategic elements that hasn't existed in Zelda before.

 

[antispin]

This is the best of GAF

 

[chespace]

But it doesn't, unless you're taking the position that only the result matters and not anything inbetween. The 1:1 sword mechanic enables the new combat system, which is almost a meta-game, if you will. Identifying when and which way to swing does make it feel new and adds a new strategic elements that hasn't existed in Zelda before.

Sounds cool. I shall have to give it a whirl then. Line was way too long at E3 and the on-stage demo didn't really convey what you just described.

 

[redbarchetta]

Sounds cool. I shall have to give it a whirl then. Line was way too long at E3 and the on-stage demo didn't really convey what you just described.

Yeah, the on-stage demo was terrible--it's a shame it turned out that way, because the game itself plays great.

 

[Mandoric]

Hmm, so $150 seems like the right price for a 2 player party game style experience after all.

Looks like someone was out sick the day they explained the benefits of selling your peripherals piecemeal

Spoiler

when they launched the Core. Or the Wi-Fi attachment. Or the Play and Charge kit. Or Live. Or the HD-DVD player.

Edit: Or the HDMI/optical adapter, hardware which exists solely to solve a problem that other hardware creates!

 

[Kogepan]

Nice! :lol

So how much is 2 player MOVE with nunchuks?

For a guy CONVINCED that nobody cares about the MOVE and everybody is beating down the door to buy the KINECT, you seem defensive.

Im sure people are going to pop down 150 dollars to play dance games and be able to PRETEND to fondle pet tigers. Why are u even worried??

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Im sure people are going to pop down 150 dollars to play dance games and be able to PRETEND to fondle pet tigers. Why are u even worried??

I know that you're being sarcastic there, but to be honest, right now people pay about 90$ for a drum set just to PRETEND to play drums

 

[DestinRL]

I will not be purchasing Kinect even at $150. My reasons are best demonstrated by the gif seen below.

Or maybe this is EXACTLY why I WILL purchase Kinect!

 

[OldJadedGamer]

This is the best of GAF

I want a year to come right now so we can bump this thread and point and laugh... who are we pointing at and who are we laughing at???? That's the big suspense!!

 

[derFeef]

*Yawns*
"Hey look, I do not like this crap, lemme make a hilarious gif to convinice everyone this really is crap!"

Looks like we can not have a normal discussion anymore. I am out.

 

[DestinRL]

*Yawns*
"Hey look, I do not like this crap, lemme make a hilarious gif to convinice everyone this really is crap!"

Looks like we can not have a normal discussion anymore. I am out.

It's hard for me to have a normal discussion about Kinect without thinking of this guy, looking like an idiot, while playing Sonic Riders at E3.

 

[Alx]

Furthermore, you'd have to stand, and doing that for hours like you suggested would be terrible.

I know that we all here play games for hours, but this kind of comments makes me smile, because we all forgot that video games are not meant to be played this long. Most of "healthy" users rather play it in short sessions, 1 hour max (there is actually a disclaimer in most manuals advising to make a break every half hour...).

And the idea that "I would have to stand/move to play, it would be too much effort !" is funny too, because it's the exact equivalent of why most people despise video games, "you're just slouching in the couch for hours, doing nothing !".

 

[JWong]

1 hour max

Eff that I played Red Dead Redemption from beginning to end in one go.

My life has been significantly shortened.

 

[Kogepan]

I know that you're being sarcastic there, but to be honest, right now people pay about 90$ for a drum set just to PRETEND to play drums

well, at least they can bang the pretend drums. Theres feedback. im not sure how pretending to stroke a tiger thats not there is going to translate. I mean, is it really THAT much better than Eyepet?

 

[Kogepan]

It's hard for me to have a normal discussion about Kinect without thinking of this guy, looking like an idiot, while playing Sonic Riders at E3.

Is the guy playing the game wrong, or its actually required to flail around like that?

 

[Alx]

Eff that I played Red Dead Redemption from beginning to end in one go.

My life has been significantly shortened.

When I mentioned "healthy" gamers, it was not really about their body health, but their balanced life. In our society spending more than an hour or two on a hobby where you are alone and not really active is usually considered weird (unless you're fishing, maybe...).

 

[JWong]

When I mentioned "healthy" gamers, it was not really about their body health, but their balanced life. In our society spending more than an hour or two on a hobby where you are alone and not really active is usually considered weird (unless you're fishing, maybe...).

I suppose it's different for me since game design is my career.

 

[schuey7]

Having seen Kinect now ,there is atleast one positive for Microsoft. In the past when recommending a game system to a relative for their young kids I only had the option for the Wii , which is why my uncle owns one.However after Kinect launches I feel that I will be able to recommend the 360 as well , so while Kinect doesn't hold much interest for me right now it will expand the market for Microsoft and hopefully we will see some worthwhile hardcore Kinect games in the near future.

 

[Raide]

Is the guy playing the game wrong, or its actually required to flail around like that?

His character just went under-water, so he is doing the swimming motion to swim back to the track.

 

[DestinRL]

Is the guy playing the game wrong, or its actually required to flail around like that?

Thats a swimming portion of the game. I watched a girl play it exactly the same way before him. She looked just about as dumb.

 

[Razgreez]

I've seen mostly negative impressions from core gamers regarding hands on kinect play, and I've seen a lot of impressions that could be construed as positive by those that are simply impressed by the novelty of the device rather than the practicality.

You're hitting the nail on the head right there. It's a case of "Kinect is amazing, we just cant exactly explain why yet but trust us it is just look at this staged promotional video"

 

[AFreak]

If you want to go down that route, (prices from amazon)

PS3 $300
4x PS move $200
4x nav controller $120
PS eye $33

Not to mention that both of us have listed dumb things because noone would use two kinect cameras and you can not use 4 move controllers together with the nav controller at the same time. I hate those comparisons, they are dumb and prove nothing. The value of a controller (or addon, however you want to call it) adds over time as more games emerge and the tech/software evolves.

you can't have 4 navs and 4 moves connected at the same time anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

the most you will ever pay is 4 x moves, 2x navs, a pseye, and the ps3 itself.

 

[pslayer666]

Yeah, the on-stage demo was terrible--it's a shame it turned out that way, because the game itself plays great.

Yeah, too bad they didn't pre-record that, and then use some actor that looks like Miyamoto to do the demo

 

[AzureNightmare]

I would only consider this thing if it came with a free lifetime xbox live gold membership at that price.

 

[Cmagus]

you can't have 4 navs and 4 moves connected at the same time anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

the most you will ever pay is 4 x moves, 2x navs, a pseye, and the ps3 itself.

Could break it down like this or could just agree that both kinect and move are a fucking rip off just saying

 

[semiconscious]

We've had this discussion many times in the project natal thread. It could be as simple as leaning slightly forward = walk, more forward=run, lean back = backward, turn right = move left shoulder forward, etc.

because i've always thought it'd be fun to pretend i was an analog stick?...

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Oh man, this thread! :lol

 

[Voyevoda007]

God, I hope this bombs. I thought the Move looked retarded but this is just horrible.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I expect bomb, but I could be wrong.... people paid about 100 bucks just for Wiifit, so 150 for a whole new game play "system" or controller to the same type of audience might be a hit.

 

[gofreak]

Could break it down like this or could just agree that both kinect and move are a fucking rip off just saying

The difference for me, and probably a lot of gaffers, is that my day one Move cost might be as low as €40/$50. A lot of us already have PS3s and PSeyes. Heck, I might not even need to buy new software since a number of games I own are getting patches! :lol So my entry cost might just be those 40 euros (or less, since there's already reports of retailers like Game discounting on the RRP). If I want two players? Fine - €80/$100.

People can come up with as many ker-azy worst case combos as they like, but beyond that 80 euro investment I highly doubt I will be buying any more hardware. Those setups where people price 4 moves and 4 navcons and a eye etc. etc. ring about as true as the kind of Live costings people used to do when talking about 360's cost (e.g. Live will cost you $50 per year! 5 years in the generation = 5*$50 = $250 = OMG 360 costs $650! More than PS3!). As much as some of us - ahem - pushed those kinds of value equations in the early days of the PS3's life, it ultimately just didn't ring true for most people. Cos most people don't think about incremental and small costs over time. They just look most immediately at their cost of entry.

My day one kinect cost by comparison, if this pricing is true, is $150. It's a flat $150 for everyone, but there's no room for cheaper entry as is possible with Move.

 

[akachan ningen]

Yeah, I'm just paying for $50 for move too. People are getting silly up in here.

 

[kadotsu]

Probably posted a million times but since E3 every Move/Kinect wank is best summed up by:

 

[Cruzader]

The difference for me, and probably a lot of gaffers, is that my day one Move cost might be as low as €40/$50. A lot of us already have PS3s and PSeyes. Heck, I might not even need to buy new software since a number of games I own are getting patches! :lol So my entry cost might just be those 40 euros (or less, since there's already reports of retailers like Game discounting on the RRP). If I want two players? Fine - €80/$100.

People can come up with as many ker-azy worst case combos as they like, but beyond that 80 euro investment I highly doubt I will be buying any more hardware. Those setups where people price 4 moves and 4 navcons and a eye etc. etc. ring about as true as the kind of Live costings people used to do when talking about 360's cost (e.g. Live will cost you $50 per year! 5 years in the generation = 5*$50 = $250 = OMG 360 costs $650! More than PS3!). As much as some of us - ahem - pushed those kinds of value equations in the early days of the PS3's life, it ultimately just didn't ring true for most people. Cos most people don't think about incremental and small costs over time. They just look most immediately at their cost of entry.

My day one kinect cost by comparison, if this pricing is true, is $150. It's a flat $150 for everyone, but there's no room for cheaper entry as is possible with Move.

Yup.

 

[DangerousDave]

All of the examples you gave are excellent reasons why designers need to rethink their games for a controller-less experience.

Did you realize that this is a very stupid reply if we're talking about limitations and the fact that Kinect is much more limited than a normal controller?

Is like if Sony presented the DualShock 4 and is... a Buzz controller. All third parties, scared, said.... "But, how we're supposed to do games with that stupid controller that only has 5 buttons, and don't has any pad?"

And Sony PR answers: "Well, that is an excellent reason why designers need to rethink their games for a 5 buttons experience".

 

[Bizzyb]

Here is the video, he never stops pointing at the screen, and the character never puts his gun down.

Still can't get over how much of a straight rip it is....looked good though.

 

[Shanadeus]

Holy shit :lol

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I expect bomb, but I could be wrong.... people paid about 100 bucks just for Wiifit, so 150 for a whole new game play "system" or controller to the same type of audience might be a hit.

This makes no sense. People should stop saying it.

Wii Fit was one game. The Balance board wasn't a whole subsystem that gamers needed to play an entire library of titles, it was entirely optional. Even the Wii Fit Plus Booster pack that didn't come with a balance board was priced accordingly. It wasn't even mandatory for the 3rd party games that used it.
Kinect is a console subsystem, meaning you will need a console to play it. Any mentions of buying Kinect as a dedicated platform and enjoying the games made for it are foolish unless you add the cost of buying a 360 as well, especially since the 360 is largely a Core owned console that scores of core gamers have washed their hands of already.

 

[Tim-E]

This makes no sense. People should stop saying it.

Wii Fit was one game. The Balance board wasn't a whole subsystem that gamers needed to play an entire library of titles, it was entirely optional. Even the Wii Fit Plus Booster pack that didn't come with a balance board was priced accordingly. It wasn't even mandatory for the 3rd party games that used it.
Kinect is a console subsystem, meaning you will need a console to play it. Any mentions of buying Kinect as a dedicated platform and enjoying the games made for it are foolish unless you add the cost of buying a 360 as well, especially since the 360 is largely a Core owned console that scores of core gamers have washed their hands of already.

It wasn't optional when Wii Fit released.

 

[Mael]

It wasn't optional when Wii Fit released.

You know many games that can't be played without the Balance Board?

 

[jaypah]

This makes no sense. People should stop saying it.

Wii Fit was one game. The Balance board wasn't a whole subsystem that gamers needed to play an entire library of titles, it was entirely optional. Even the Wii Fit Plus Booster pack that didn't come with a balance board was priced accordingly. It wasn't even mandatory for the 3rd party games that used it.
Kinect is a console subsystem, meaning you will need a console to play it. Any mentions of buying Kinect as a dedicated platform and enjoying the games made for it are foolish unless you add the cost of buying a 360 as well

i don't think he/she meant without buying/owning a 360 first. even so, people bought a Wii and Wii-Fit because it's what they wanted. a lot of those people didn't have a Wii beforehand. maybe people will also buy a 360 and Kinect if they see that experience and want it. it'll even have it's own collection of software up front beyond the game that interested them in the first place. with pretty purple covers!

now if you wanted to say price could sink MS then i agree. or bad word of mouth. or the fact that people looking for that type of experience are already enjoying the Wii and see no reason to switch.

especially since the 360 is largely a Core owned console that scores of core gamers have washed their hands of already.

you means as in hardcore gamers are abandoning the 360 left and right? when did this happen? serious question, i've been out of the loop it seems. was it some kind of backlash after E3?

 

[BattleMonkey]

This makes no sense. People should stop saying it.

Wii Fit was one game. The Balance board wasn't a whole subsystem that gamers needed to play an entire library of titles, it was entirely optional. Even the Wii Fit Plus Booster pack that didn't come with a balance board was priced accordingly. It wasn't even mandatory for the 3rd party games that used it.
Kinect is a console subsystem, meaning you will need a console to play it. Any mentions of buying Kinect as a dedicated platform and enjoying the games made for it are foolish unless you add the cost of buying a 360 as well, especially since the 360 is largely a Core owned console that scores of core gamers have washed their hands of already.

You needed to have a Wii console to use Wiifit, you couldn't play Wiifit without buying the balance board package for 100 bucks. Not really any different from Kinect outside Kinect will have far more uses than the balance board. I'm talking about people who already owned Wii's or have 360's already. Don't expect Kinect to have people rush out and buy new 360's for it, but they have already 40 million 360's out there so I don't see how it could'nt potentially succeed. I don't really want it to succeed or like it, but I can see it being a surprise success.

The point is that people were willing to shell out 100 bucks for a peripheral and one game, then people won't be willing to spend 50 bucks more for a package that offers far more? I just don't see price being that much of a hurdle as people are making out, there was people acting like "lol wiifit, who will pay that much for that"

 

[Mael]

You needed to have a Wii console to use Wiifit, you couldn't play Wiifit without buying the balance board package for 100 bucks. Not really any different from Kinect outside Kinect will have far more uses than the balance board.

The point is that people were willing to shell out 100 bucks for a peripheral and one game, that people won't be willing to spend 50 bucks more for a package that offers far more?

I guess ths ps3 was really priced right, I mean for just a few bucks more you had a BLURAY player, amirite?

 

[BattleMonkey]

I guess ths ps3 was really priced right, I mean for just a few bucks more you had a BLURAY player, amirite?

Did people want a blu ray player for 600? Sales seem to say no. If people want it, they will buy it.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

i don't think he/she meant without buying/owning a 360 first. even so, people bought a Wii and Wii-Fit because it's what they wanted. a lot of those people didn't have a Wii beforehand. maybe people will also buy a 360 and Kinect if they see that experience and want it. it'll even have it's own collection of software up front beyond the game that interested them in the first place. with pretty purple covers!

now if you wanted to say price could sink MS then i agree. or bad word of mouth. or the fact that people looking for that type of experience are already enjoying the Wii and see no reason to switch.

I agree completely. Still, the Wii Fit comparison makes little sense, considering the Balance board wasn't necessary for anything else but Wii Fit (at the time). Not to mention that the Board came with a game; 100 bucks with game is much easier to swallow than 150 + game price. Anybody who wants the Kinect library Must buy a 360 AND Kinect first - those who wanted Wii Fit only needed a Wii.

you means as in hardcore gamers are abandoning the 360 left and right? when did this happen? serious question, i've been out of the loop it seems. was it some kind of backlash after E3?

No, I mean that if the core backlash is as intense as it has been (OFF the internet) MS isn't going to be able to rely on leveraging the core 360 fanbase to buoy Kinect. (Read: the people who mainly comprise that 40 million userbase.)