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[OmegaDL50]

wow, those characters look pretty last-gen. snk should have stuck with 2d sprites cause now this looks like a low rent sfiv.

SNK nearly bankrupted themselves for the costs involved creating the characters in KOFXI / XIII.

I'm sure if you read the on going debate about this, you'd see the entire situation for what it is.

I feel like a line needs to be drawn to ask the question for those who are interested in this game because it's KOF as opposed to those that don't really care otherwise but appreciate the games because of some visual spectacle.

From what we've gleaned from interviews with Oda. This is the first KOF game in a long time that is assembling most of the old guard from SNK R&D1 which were heavily involved in games like Garou, Real Bout, AOF, and the much earlier KOF titles.

The promise of a good playing KOF game is there considering the staff involved. Is this enough for some? Or is the aesthetics of the game more important than this.

I understand the lack of 2D sprites is a sore point for some, but if it comes at the cost of never having another KOF game again because of the costs involved. I don't think that is something for anyone who is truly vested in this series would willingly accept.

 

[TheSpoiler]

I'm willing to bet the majority of the people still harping on about the graphics weren't going to buy KOF in the first place, sprites or no. They just want to sit on the sidelines and complain about the last thing most fighting games need to worry about.

The biggest hint comes from people saying the game is "falling from grace from the looks of it". Like really? Besides the fact that the gameplay has been confirmed by many hands on players and pro players alike as great, and that some even like it better than the previous entry? Besides the fact that there aren't glaring flaws in the new systems?

Could pretty graphics help bring in more people? It's possible a few sales are lost over someone picking up SFV because shiny graphics are more important to them. But let's be real - they certainly aren't going to keep people around, or turn opinions en masse. So it's nothing more than concern trolling to suggest this game is a dud based on how it looks from a graphical standpoint.

 

[CrispyBoar]

OmegaDL50 & TheSpoiler: If posters such as TheMan, abstract alien, & TheYanger were running SNK Playmore, the company would be six feet under within 6 months to a year.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Hmm? Not sure. Maybe something between engine changes, like in 2K3 or Neowave?

or maybe it was a different game, like NGBC, but like I said it could just be my eyes

 

[Het_Nkik]

or maybe it was a different game, like NGBC, but like I said it could just be my eyes

Not a framerate cut, but I think I remember reading back in the day that KOFXI had less frames of animation per character since all 6 characters needed to be in RAM to tag in.

I read this a very long time ago so... I don't know if that's actually true or not.

 

[Mesoian]

Obligatory.

Excellent.

 

[orioto]

wow, those characters look pretty last-gen. snk should have stuck with 2d sprites cause now this looks like a low rent sfiv.

You can say whatever you want about art direction or models having horrible faces.. But i'm sick of hearing it's "last gen". Those models have polys and they are damn sharp. Look at captures of PS3 fighters at 720p..

 

[darkhunger]

You can say whatever you want about art direction or models having horrible faces.. But i'm sick of hearing it's "last gen". Those models have polys and they are damn sharp. Look at captures of PS3 fighters at 720p..

It's not art direction. It's the primitive lighting and shader technology, as well as the lack of mocap that makes everything look dated.

 

[Whompa02]

The only time SNK got remotely close to Third Strikes animation was in KOF13. That's a fact. It wasn't even a competition, and even then I still think there's a lot of stiff animations in KOF13.

 

[darkhunger]

The only time SNK got remotely close to Third Strikes animation was in KOF13. That's a fact. It wasn't even a competition, and even then I still think there's a lot of stiff animations in KOF13.

Quite frankly, the markets KOF traditionally appeal to (Latin America, China/HK, Southeast Asia, etc) tend not to care too much about cutting edge tech anyway. For example China's still heavily into games like Warcraft III and WOW and those are from two or three gens ago.

 

[grendelrt]

The only time SNK got remotely close to Third Strikes animation was in KOF13. That's a fact. It wasn't even a competition, and even then I still think there's a lot of stiff animations in KOF13.

Garou's animation was pretty damn good and you are comparing a multi generational hardware leap (CPS3) to MVS. KOF13 was obviously a hardware leap but it was also rendering the sprites at 480p not 240p. I have all the CPS2 and Neo Geo fighting games, and I consistently find cooler details in the SNK sprites. I think overall SNK just put out way more impressive stuff especially considering the hardware.

 

[Choppasmith]

The only time SNK got remotely close to Third Strikes animation was in KOF13. That's a fact. It wasn't even a competition, and even then I still think there's a lot of stiff animations in KOF13.

Art of Fighting 3 says hi.

Garou and Last Blade can hold their own to SF3 considering the inferior hardware as well.

 

[qcf x2]

Garou's animation was pretty damn good and you are comparing a multi generational hardware leap (CPS3) to MVS. KOF13 was obviously a hardware leap but it was also rendering the sprites at 480p not 240p. I have all the CPS2 and Neo Geo fighting games, and I consistently find cooler details in the SNK sprites. I think overall SNK just put out way more impressive stuff especially considering the hardware.

That's not the point, nobody is dogging the borderline miraculous work that SNK did with the MVS hardware. The point is that TheYanger said "Snk fighters were beautiful from the mid 90s on. They've had sf3 quality animation from like 94," which is false due to the year provided if nothing else.

That SNK was even able to make visually competitive games compared to the CPS3 is insane, so in that sense TheYanger was right. And certainly, he said SF3, not 3rd Strike specifically, so there ARE some late-MVS SNK games that are in that ball park (Garou, LB2, arguably AoF3, etc).

 

[grendelrt]

That's not the point, nobody is dogging the borderline miraculous work that SNK did with the MVS hardware. The point is that TheYanger said "Snk fighters were beautiful from the mid 90s on. They've had sf3 quality animation from like 94," which is false due to the year provided if nothing else.

That SNK was even able to make visually competitive games compared to the CPS3 is insane, so in that sense TheYanger was right. And certainly, he said SF3, not 3rd Strike specifically, so there ARE some late-MVS SNK games that are in that ball park (Garou, LB2, arguably AoF3, etc).

Gotcha sorry I only saw that last comment. I agree with you, prob not in 94 but the later stuff is definitely up there. Also another way to look at it is with KOF games you have 40-50 characters all with good animation (some with excellent animation like bosses) so on a single character level they may not be as impressive but on the whole the amount of work put into animation in a KOF game is pretty substantial. I think this game is going to end up looking really nice in the end, it may not be up to SFV levels but then again SFV doesnt have 50 characters.

 

[Zetta]

Obligatory.

Awww this brings me back, still so damn good. I can't wait for this game to come out, hell I'd settle for a release date right now.

 

[qcf x2]

Gotcha sorry I only saw that last comment. I agree with you, prob not in 94 but the later stuff is definitely up there. Also another way to look at it is with KOF games you have 40-50 characters all with good animation (some with excellent animation like bosses) so on a single character level they may not be as impressive but on the whole the amount of work put into animation in a KOF game is pretty substantial. I think this game is going to end up looking really nice in the end, it may not be up to SFV levels but then again SFV doesnt have 50 characters.

I agree. I think in some ways it will look better than SFV, even if not from an objective standpoint. Character designs are always in SNK's favor (though I think Capcom is doing great work with the new characters in SFV), the backgrounds already look better than some of the SFV stages, and KoF has the extra flashy attacks/supers as well. So stylistically it may very well end up more appealing, but I don't think it's necessarily either or. I know I hope to enjoy both games for a very long time. Much like a hot blonde and a hot brunette, I can appreciate two different things for being what they are

 

[grendelrt]

I agree. I think in some ways it will look better than SFV, even if not from an objective standpoint. Character designs are always in SNK's favor (though I think Capcom is doing great work with the new characters in SFV), the backgrounds already look better than some of the SFV stages, and KoF has the extra flashy attacks/supers as well. So stylistically it may very well end up more appealing, but I don't think it's necessarily either or. I know I hope to enjoy both games for a very long time. Much like a hot blonde and a hot brunette, I can appreciate two different things for being what they are

Totally agree, I am just pleased we are getting something that looks this good at this point. I was not excited on the first trailer and its only gone up from there. If SNK could come back to releasing console games on a regular basis that would make me very happy.

 

[Sayad]

Yep, that's how I look at it as well.


Seriously, when did this 'KOF games looked bad for their times' become a thing?
I remember '94's graphics being criticized, back then, compared to other SNK fighting games, but then praised again from '95 on to 2000. And I'd personally never say KOF'97 didn't look good - even great - for its time (I must confess I lost the plot a bit, from 2000 to XII, so I'm not counting 2001/2003/Neowave and XI in).

Ah, so you're not counting most of the games release in the time span I mentioned! Probably why you don't agree.

By late 90s early 2000s KoF was a 2D games during the rise of 3D graphic when they looked at 2D sprites as outdated, and even then, they didn't look good next to Capcom 2D games from that era. That was the case until XII came out. I'II try to dig some of my old gaming magazine and scan some KoF reviews from that era tomorrow(assuming I still have those).

Those KoF reviews is what made me not put much faith in reviews, they reviewed badly mostly for looking like mid 90s games.

 

[grendelrt]

Ah, so you're not counting most of the games release in the time span I mentioned! Probably why you don't agree.

By late 90s early 2000s KoF was a 2D games during the rise of 3D graphic when they looked at 2D sprites as outdated, and even then, they didn't look good next to Capcom 2D games from that era. That was the case until XII came out. I'II try to dig some of my old gaming magazine and scan some KoF reviews from that era tomorrow(assuming I still have those).

KoF reviews from that time is what made me not put much faith in reviews, they reviewed badly mostly for looking like mid 90s games.

What I find amazing is how much change there is in KOF 94-2003. When I started getting MVS games I was planning on getting like 98, 2000, and 2003 because I knew they all were pretty different from each other. I ended up with 94-2003 because each time I got a new one (KOF games are pretty cheap as well!) I realized how much they would change each year.

 

[Sayad]

What I find amazing is how much change there is in KOF 94-2003. When I started getting MVS games I was planning on getting like 98, 2000, and 2003 because I knew they all were pretty different from each other. I ended up with 94-2003 because each time I got a new one (KOF games are pretty cheap as well!) I realized how much they would change each year.

They still change them a lot, XI plays nothing like XII, and XIII is nothing like XII(thank god, lol). While this one looks different too, I wish they did something to change the team format, maybe bring back XI's character switch thing.

 

[grendelrt]

They still change them a lot, XI plays nothing like XII, and XIII is nothing like XII(thank god, lol). While this one looks different too, I wish they did something to change the team format, maybe bring back XI's character switch thing.

I know a lot of people hate it, but I loved the striker system.

 

[Het_Nkik]

as well as the lack of mocap that makes everything look dated.

What the hell are they going to motion capture? This isn't Virtua Fighter. "Yo, alright, Terry actor, corkscrew spin upside down now. Really launch into the air there." You think Street Fighter V and Guilty Gear Xrd are motion captured?

 

[RedAssedApe]

dunno if i'm a fan of every stage being a circular fighting arena

 

[Het_Nkik]

dunno if i'm a fan of every stage being a circular fighting arena

And the whale stage that doesn't have any official art anywhere.

 

[TreIII]

They still change them a lot, XI plays nothing like XII, and XIII is nothing like XII(thank god, lol). While this one looks different too, I wish they did something to change the team format, maybe bring back XI's character switch thing.

I'd have to disagree, there. Save that kind of thing for the NeoGeo Battle Colosseum sequel, if it ever happens (and definitely would be something I'd like to see after Samurai Spirits and MOTW get their due).

But KOF should do more to stay in its lane. Part of the reason they likely felt led to "experiment" so much was because they were formerly pumping out sequels on a yearly basis and had to do their best to avoid "Mega Man syndrome". Now that we're likely going to be sticking with "one KOF game" for possibly the rest of this generation, perhaps that will give SNKP more time to experiment with other games, instead of trying to force everything into KOF.

 

[Whompa02]

Quite frankly, the markets KOF traditionally appeal to (Latin America, China/HK, Southeast Asia, etc) tend not to care too much about cutting edge tech anyway. For example China's still heavily into games like Warcraft III and WOW and those are from two or three gens ago.

it wasn't about tech, at all. It was knowing how to animate within their limitations.

Garou's animation was pretty damn good and you are comparing a multi generational hardware leap (CPS3) to MVS. KOF13 was obviously a hardware leap but it was also rendering the sprites at 480p not 240p. I have all the CPS2 and Neo Geo fighting games, and I consistently find cooler details in the SNK sprites. I think overall SNK just put out way more impressive stuff especially considering the hardware.

I agree with Garou, but for the entire package, Third Strike takes it big time. Nothing came close. I don't even think it was rendering sprites. Like I said in response to darkhunger, it was just a team of better animators. You can stuff as many sprites as you want onto an image, but the flow/energy/movement is what comes from the artist, not the technology.

Art of Fighting 3 says hi.

Garou and Last Blade can hold their own to SF3 considering the inferior hardware as well.

Garou and Last Blade were good. Great even. Third Strike great though, I think is debatable.

 

[darkhunger]

What the hell are they going to motion capture? This isn't Virtua Fighter. "Yo, alright, Terry actor, corkscrew spin upside down now. Really launch into the air there." You think Street Fighter V and Guilty Gear Xrd are motion captured?

Uh, the same way they motion capture stunts in 99% of action movies and video games out there?

Street Fighter and Guilty Gear aren't the pinnacle of video game animation either. But Mocap is basically a standard of AAA games this gen so it is practically part of what makes current gen current gen.

That's not to say I think SNK should do it, but the rigid and uncanny valley-ish animation (especially with the face) can be partly attributed to that.

 

[Het_Nkik]

Uh, the same way they motion capture stunts in 99% of action movies and video games out there?

Street Fighter and Guilty Gear aren't the pinnacle of video game animation either. But Mocap is basically a standard of AAA games this gen so it is practically part of what makes current gen current gen.

That's not to say I think SNK should do it, but the rigid and uncanny valley-ish animation (especially with the face) can be partly attributed to that.

I don't think you want what most people want out of King of Fighters animation.

Oh, you edited.

But still, you need to lower some expectations. KOF isn't a AAA game and they don't have AAA money.

 

[GrayFoxPL]

What the hell are they going to motion capture? This isn't Virtua Fighter. "Yo, alright, Terry actor, corkscrew spin upside down now. Really launch into the air there." You think Street Fighter V and Guilty Gear Xrd are motion captured?

 

[DiipuSurotu]

"Yo, alright, Terry actor, corkscrew spin upside down now. Really launch into the air there."

 

[Tizoc]

What the hell are they going to motion capture? This isn't Virtua Fighter. "Yo, alright, Terry actor, corkscrew spin upside down now. Really launch into the air there." You think Street Fighter V and Guilty Gear Xrd are motion captured?

My sides.

 

[Razzorn34]

What the hell are they going to motion capture? This isn't Virtua Fighter. "Yo, alright, Terry actor, corkscrew spin upside down now. Really launch into the air there." You think Street Fighter V and Guilty Gear Xrd are motion captured?

 

[Loona]

What the hell are they going to motion capture? This isn't Virtua Fighter. "Yo, alright, Terry actor, corkscrew spin upside down now. Really launch into the air there." You think Street Fighter V and Guilty Gear Xrd are motion captured?

I wouldn't be surprised if most of Alice's specials consisted of repurposed failed attempts at doing Rising Tackles...

 

[TreIII]

I wouldn't be surprised if most of Alice's specials consisted of repurposed failed attempts at doing Rising Tackles...

I'd hope at least her past as being a (ex?) student of Kim's would still shine in some way. Maybe more kick-oriented moves compared to Terry's punching/basketball-based stuff?

 

[Holy Order Sol]

I wouldn't be surprised if most of Alice's specials consisted of repurposed failed attempts at doing Rising Tackles...

The game could use a surprisingly effective goofball in the absence of Shingo.

 

[Galdelico]

Ah, so you're not counting most of the games release in the time span I mentioned! Probably why you don't agree.

By late 90s early 2000s KoF was a 2D games during the rise of 3D graphic when they looked at 2D sprites as outdated, and even then, they didn't look good next to Capcom 2D games from that era. That was the case until XII came out. I'II try to dig some of my old gaming magazine and scan some KoF reviews from that era tomorrow(assuming I still have those).

Those KoF reviews is what made me not put much faith in reviews, they reviewed badly mostly for looking like mid 90s games.

Well, to be fair, you didn't mention any specific time span, in the post I quoted, and I assumed you were talking about KOF series in general.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

I'd hope at least her past as being a (ex?) student of Kim's would still shine in some way. Maybe more kick-oriented moves compared to Terry's punching/basketball-based stuff?

Kim's student was Alice Chrysler. This character is Alice Garnet Nakata.

 

[Sayad]

Well, to be fair, you didn't mention any specific time span, in the post I quoted, and I assumed you were talking about KOF series in general.

Huh! From the post you quoted:

... KoFXIII(and XII I guess) was the only time a main KoF game looked good for its time in the past 17 or so years!

 

[Galdelico]

Huh! From the post you quoted:

Holy shit man, you're right... My brain still can't handle that 'the past 17 years' only cover the post-2000 KOF. I assumed you were talking about the whole series.
*facepalms and suddenly feels so old*