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Kiznaiver |OT| Trigger's Wounds Will Not Heal

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Puruzi

Banned
Nico was clearly shown to like tenga

she was jealous of how much tenga was paying attention to chidori, got mad when tenga kept on yelling about making sure chidori was safe, saved tenga when that dude was about to sneak attack him etc etc

like damn, it doesn't need to be explicitly spelled out.
 
It was too abrupt. The indications were minute relative to other relationships and so it makes it the Nico -> Tenga thing feel a bit more contrived.
 

Jarmel

Banned
Kiznaiver-8
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Holy fuck
So this is getting pretty meta. It's like I'm watching shipping wars on the internet inside an actual show. All we need now is for the characters to have a shipping chart, oh. All the interconnectivity between pairings is definitely reminding me of True Tears. It's probably going to end in the same amount of actual tears too. I'm not sure if I like this general direction for the narrative because that's when drama gets the heaviest and I think I would have liked more backgrounds for the other Kiznaivers and delving into them before getting to this point. Hisomu in particular feels really shallow and serves primarily as the monkey in the wrench. This is where I think it might have been better if the show was two-cour as we could have gotten more time and lead-up to this.
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Lighting game still strong despite the occasional misstep.
This is somehow rivaling JoJo as the best looking show this season and it's actually improving visually. Is this Trigger? The lighting being this good is really aiding the drama as it's reflecting the darkness in the characters and showing the complexity of what each character is feeling. It seems the show is delving into the troubled history regarding the Kiznaiver experiments and the storm is great at not only creating locked room scenarios but also visually reflecting the turmoil in all the characters. It's thematically fitting that Katsuhira rushes into the storm when he possibly gets his memories back and is confronting Noriko.
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Working hard to retain her title as Best Girl.
Let me just say that the ending was flat out amazing. It's not just that Chidori gets blown the fuck out in the most humiliating way possible. It's a really well directed scene on an audio-visual front. The zoom-in when he opens the door was a great character moment for Katsuhira as it seems like he's reverting back to what he was and reflects his current intensity. I wonder if Katsuhira's monotone speaking style will drop soon, representing his return to 'normality'.
The music was on point. Based Hayashi delivering. I can't rave enough about that last track. The sound direction should be applauded too for example the bass kicks in just when Katsuhira gets his memories so the audience knows it's a dramatic moment.
 

m4st4

Member
Episodes 8-9 were a huge payoff for anyone patient enough to stick around and watch this slow-burn anime, really good stuff and I'm more than curious about the final three episodes now.
 
There was...I hesitate to use the word subtle because it was obvious what they were doing, but a very well-directed bit where he was having his flashbacks to all the younger Kiznaivers saying it hurts and they can't breathe and when it cut back to Nori and him he was hugging her in that REALLY long held shot, where it stayed on them for just a bit too long and made it almost uncomfortable to watch and then she said "I can't breathe" and it just...matched up so perfectly with everything.

The direction in this show is on point so much.
 

Cornbread78

Member
Holy fuck balls it hurts.. Pretty intense ending, but at least everything (their feelings) is out in the open now. I still want to know why Katsuhira is an empty she'll still and I'm guessing that is what the last couple episodes has to focus on; making him whole again as Sono promised to him as a child. Oh and that kick to sensei's jewels was great and she is right, they are all extremely broken at this point, but let's see if they can fix it now that "the rains gone"
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
Gotta say I really don't give two shits about the lead(Katsuhira) at all and it's made it hard to care about everything related to the Kizna experiment in the past and his connection to it, same with Sonozaki. The main hook for me anyway besides the fancy intro and nice visuals has been Tenga, Hinoka and Chidori as they're the ones who feel fleshed out, relatable, likeable, etc. So at least that's almost half the Kiznaivers and that's a positive I guess.
 

Giolon

Member
Oh shit Trigger is doing a proper anime show now.


Oh shit it's nine episodes in?!

Kill La Kill was more than a proper anime. It saved anime. For me anyway.

Kiznaiver is a bit of a slow burn, but once it gets going, get ready for feels.
 
Against all odds this show really succeeds in a great way. Trigger + Okada should = bad but its actually great? Also the best looking show of the season in a season with the fantastic Diamond is Unbreakable? This is the good side of the Okada melodrama coin, because I actually give a shit about the characters and feel bad for them. They aren't ridiculous caricatures, they may be based on them like the hyper genki girl or the over aggressive yankee but I feel for them.

It's a shame this isn't getting the kind of attention that a Trigger show would if it was made by Imaishi. The Kill la Kill OT shot past 100 pages when it was airing and this will struggle to make it past 5 when it's a far superior show. Guess it'll be time for it to shine and be pushed come AOTY.
 
Against all odds this show really succeeds in a great way. Trigger + Okada should = bad but its actually great? Also the best looking show of the season in a season with the fantastic Diamond is Unbreakable? This is the good side of the Okada melodrama coin, because I actually give a shit about the characters and feel bad for them. They aren't ridiculous caricatures, they may be based on them like the hyper genki girl or the over aggressive yankee but I feel for them.

It's a shame this isn't getting the kind of attention that a Trigger show would if it was made by Imaishi. The Kill la Kill OT shot past 100 pages when it was airing and this will struggle to make it past 5 when it's a far superior show. Guess it'll be time for it to shine and be pushed come AOTY.

Kiznaiver would probably be a lot more popular (but worse) if it had stuck with Okada's original action show draft
 

XAL

Member
When I watched the first episode I thought this was going to be lame as hell. But you get to really like and care for the characters.

The last few episodes have been pretty dark and real tear jerkers.

Episode 10 though :(
 

Moaradin

Member
I expect this show to shit the bed every time a new episode comes out, but somehow it has avoided that. Other popular shows this season like Kabaneri have been getting less and less appealing as it goes on, but this show has stayed strong.
 

Cornbread78

Member
Damn, my man is even more broken now; wtf you sick bastards. I'm surprised Tenga did just pop sensei in the facenter after that stunt. He's a piece of shit through and through.
 

m4st4

Member
Thank god they stopped the episode cause that finale (nearly) wrecked me. I don't watch many anime shows, before this I watched Kill la Kill and some of OP (switched to manga only thankfully). By my standards Kiznaiver is a pretty strong, emotionally investing entry.
 
The direction in this episode was superb and honestly this show keeps surprising me because like everyone else I'm waiting for that other Okada shoe to drop and ruin some aspect of this show but this might be her most emotionally consistent and deftly handled writing to date and the direction it follows with the framing and composition of shots remains super well done.

Small things like Nico's little shaking before grabbing Katsuhira's hand, the eye focus on shots with the Mayor, Nori and Katushira gaining small bits of emotion.

I actually think that the male Sensei is such an asshole cause as you can see from the shots of the past Kizna experiment he got really close to the kids and to see them wind up like they did and Nori like she did...I think it broke him. I think he keeps pushing and pushing this experiment because he's so desperate for it to work. Maybe he just wants them to be normal kids again.

The voice acting for this show is also pretty top tier. Even if Chidori a basic bitch there was a strong undercurrent of anger to her yelling at Tenga and you could almost feel the heat there simmering. And fucking Katushira's cry in the last seconds of the episode was absolutely fucking brutal how it raised in pitch and broke and got throaty and just...jesus christ there was so much pain in it. The VA did a tremendous job with that.

I was not prepared for that ending. Those deadpan expressions, Katushira getting more and more emotional and then that black and white flashback to Nori as she turns around and the colors bloom and her face is just so full of life and emotion and happy despite taking on 19 people's worth of pain. And I know we often point out examples of this and it's sorta become a "thing" in anime lately but Katsuhira's face as it just turned into this mess of crying was beautifully animated with such a strong progression to him just breaking down so hard.

I liked Hisomu and Nico being Katushira's sidekicks this episode, mostly because I just enjoy the idea of them being his sidekicks, but I feel they added a lot of levity to an episode that would have otherwise been oppressively heavy and the ending would have lost a lot of emotional impact if we were ruined from the start. I also enjoy that we probably won't learn anything about Hisomu because there's honestly probably not that much to learn about him; his comment to Mako about "Does everyone need to have some trauma like you?" has really grown on me over time because it's just a really good way to frame how he is. It brings me a lot of amusement that the character that is specifically in love with the idea of feeling pain is the most level-headed, well-adjusted and in tune with who he is as a person. It's great that after all the shit from last episode he pretty much didn't change and was still sitting there at Katsuhira's apartment.

What an absolutely great show.
 

Jarmel

Banned
Kiznaiver- 10
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If Nico's happy then I'm happy.
Well that was depressing. It's kinda hard to comment on the show as there isn't that much thematic depth to it and instead it's being driven almost purely by the character interactions and drama. It's a good thing then that those elements are fairly interesting and riveting. This episode serves as a sort of cooldown episode after all the pain from last week and, surprisingly enough, jumps past the summer. I thought they would make a big event about losing the Kiznaiver connection and instead they jump past it.
I loved this sequence for a number of reasons. One being the lack of background as it helps make the characters stand out more and emphasizes the space between them due to there not being any physical objects or really anything there. The bright colors serve as a contrast to the dark color palette in the past few episodes. You could say the dark colors were a reflection of the inner turmoil and strong emotions boiled up in the cast but here, there's an apathetic response to each other and the colors are kinda plain in response.
The audience can also see just from the body language, with the slumped shoulders, as to the mental state of the cast. That along with the use of the cell phones again reaffirms the mental separation between the characters. Use of text messages is viewed as being detached from the other party, so I thought it was fitting that the director used it here as a way of showing the character relationships breaking apart. Not to mention the characters aren't facing each other or Kazuhira and so the audience nor Katsuhira can see what they're thinking. I think that is particularly effective in Kiznaiver's case as so much emotion is depicted in the eyes and it's fairly easy to read what a character is thinking when the audience can see a person's face.
For example look at the above shot, you can see from the smirk and eyes that the teacher is mocking Chidori with the intent to emotionally hurt her. He's a real piece of shit by the way. He knows exactly what he's doing and what the response will be. It's not just him though but also the mayor, with the closeup on the eyes at the end that signify that he's being serious with Urushii and that he's also giving her an implication as well. It adds a lot to a show like this when reading a facial expression or body language tells you something about their mindset.
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Urushii looking sideways is both a sign of regret and embarrassment.
The character art in general has been really nice due in combination of the detailed closeups but also a strong emphasis on the lighting. There's been a lot of effort put into the layouts and framing and as a result, this is easily Trigger's best looking show despite the lack of insane sakuga. It's kinda funny watching this will all the emotive eyework after reading that animator's complaint about spending so much time on the eyes.
The ending was another great finish, continuing the show's current streak. Direction-wise, there's a strong use of color that aids the emotional impact of the moment. Seeing how lively these kids were in black and white and then how 'dead' they are in color, is an oxymoronical use of color. I also thought the shift at the end was a good way of connecting the past to the present and emphasizing the tragedy that has occurred. I have no clue how all the people who ran this aren't in jail. Katsuhira crying at the end was pretty brutal not only in how it was visually shown but also Yuki Kaiji putting in some of the best work of his life. It's a really ugly cry/scream on the audio side and in moments like that, the ugliness helps reflect the humanity in the character.
 

m4st4

Member
Based on Episode 11, finale will either immensely deliver or this show goes out with a whimper, I don't see it being in the middle like most of the episodes so far.
 

Totakeke

Member
I've enjoyed this series so far. The initial concept was a bit hard to like and the characters appeared to be too one-note at the beginning but eventually it just settled down to pretty good character drama. It has a core theme it wants to convey and it's doing a pretty good job at it and sticking to it.

Looking forward to seeing how this wraps up.
 

Cornbread78

Member
going to try and mass connect everyone to her through the Kizna system? That is so gigantic leap in the number of people dumping all their pain and emotions to her... How is that going to help her friends? I'm really not sure how they will adequately close this show out next week.
 

Puruzi

Banned
going to try and mass connect everyone to her through the Kizna system? That is so gigantic leap in the number of people dumping all their pain and emotions to her... How is that going to help her friends? I'm really not sure how they will adequately close this show out next week.

maybe she wants everyone to become apathetic so they're all the same, thus world peace
 
ahahahaha
THIS SHOW MAKES ME HURT INSIDE
It doesn't do everything well and there's a ton of tropes and such but it uses them in a way that I honestly would have never expected. On my top 20 for sure.
 

dpunk3

Member
OK, I really need the OST for this. Anyone hear of a release date?

Edit: Apparently the 1st volume of the OST is due to release alongside the second DVD on July 6th. Source.
 

Jarmel

Banned
Kiznaiver-fin
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Great use of red as a way of depicting Sonozaki as villainous.
I'm sorta mixed on the final episode as writing-wise, I find Sonozaki to be the worst of the main cast and even in the finale she continues that role to a large extent. Both her and Katsuhira are very flat characters so they don't play off each other that well. Now I think this concept might have worked better in a longer series where we see Katsuhira become normal and drag Sonozaki out of her shell but even in the finale he's still somewhat monotone and flat in a number of scenes. I suppose that's being true to the character, in that there's a sense of continuity and consequence as you can't just wipe out who you are as a person in a span of a few months. That said, even certain scenes such as the hospital one at the end come off as slightly unintentionally comedic due to how flat the two characters are and how little chemistry they have together. However the direction, storyboarding, music, visuals, and other characters make up for the writing issues. The music in particular really elevated this episode from being mediocre into being great. The piece when Katsuhira is climbing the bridge isn't new but it's still a fantastic track and worked really well. The full ED was really nice and I especially like the orchestral intro and thought the placement in the episode was impeccable.
There was a lot of subtle work put into the animation of the episode such as the above in that Tenga's face is animated a bit softer, around the eyes, which reflects his inner turmoil. While the show didn't have a lot of sakuga, there was a ton of work put into the character art and as a result even though the show doesn't 'move' a lot, it still looks gorgeous as a result. That's in large parts due to the strong effort put into the lighting resulting in some outstanding visual scenes. I wouldn't say it's the best looking show this season as it had some hard competition from JoJo Part 4 but in no ways was this a visually ugly, hell even a mediocre, show.
I expected Trigger to screw up on the production side but instead the show seemingly got better looking as it went along. A practice pretty much unheard of in this industry. Otsuka and staff at Trigger had mentioned how hellish the production of Kill La Kill was and how they were determined to plan better to prevent that sort of crunch and while I can't confidently determine that from the show itself, by all accounts it looks to have a smooth production. They seem to have done some internal adjustments in the past year or so, and the results are visually better and more consistent shows. The true test will be Little Witch Academia with Yoshinari the Perfectionist as I imagine animators will be dying at Trigger rather soon. Hopefully though they can maintain this sort of consistency to their future productions.
I'm not sure I'm a huge fan of the last arc as it feels like the dialogue lost all tangible connection relation to reality. Now I was able to follow it but it felt a bit wonkier than earlier episodes and more conceptual in nature. I preferred the internal drama of the group rather than the somewhat external issues in the Kiznaiver system. That said, I do think the writing did a rather decent job tying the two elements together and so things flowed somewhat well into each other. I don't think this is a case where the ending elevates a show but it certainly didn't sink the prior character work either. This final arc, and the preceding one to an extent, could have worked better at the end of a two cour with more character work but it is what it is.
Kiznaiver is a rather unique work that only Okada and Trigger could have created. It utilizes both of their strengths and comes up with a combination that is whacky, melodramatic, insane but also heartfelt, sincere, and funny. The show doesn't appeal to any particular demographic or audience, which is probably why it's bombing in Japan and not likely to be popular in the USA, but that nonsensical concoction is exactly why it stands out. It balances all these disparate elements so well and avoid a number of pitfalls as a result. It doesn't have the thematic depth I would have liked but it's just so well directed that I really enjoyed the show anyway. This was a great starting point for Hiroshi Kobayashi's directing career and I hope he helms more shows in the future.
 

Odrion

Banned
Finished it.

Pretty good overall! I didn't like how the characters felt archetypal in the beginning but they do get fleshed out into something a lot more compelling, and the revelations were pretty well done and satisfying. Also yeah, the presentation and animation were top notch.

That said, it felt like it took more than a couple of episodes for the show to become compelling and this was a 12 episode story. And I'm still feeling a little "?!?!?!?!?!?!" behind the motives of the Kiznaiver Project, Sonozaki, and the scientists.

But yeah, good show. Trigger's best show yet and it brought back my faith for the studio.
 

Cornbread78

Member
That bridge scene was pretty dope with the following the water scene being even more powerful. I like the ending, since it was completely my style but it was very contrived and sudden (probably should have made it a 40 min episode). They really played out all of the ships at the end as well, which was great to see, and that Sono one liner about being pushed to the ground was actually pretty funny, with Chidori's reaction being funnier, lol.

Good stuff overall. At least Okada didn't screw this show up..
 

Mossybrew

Member
I said it after the third episode and I'm glad it held up throughout - best anime I've seen in years. It doesn't even need another season, it told a complete story. Damn, the feels.
 

m4st4

Member
Based on Episode 11, finale will either immensely deliver or this show goes out with a whimper, I don't see it being in the middle like most of the episodes so far.

well-there-it-is.gif


Really happy with how things turned out in the end. Editing and music especially sealed the deal. Certainly one of my favorites anime now and I'll continue to support Trigger by purchasing a blu-ray collection.
 

Astral

Member
I didn't know this show existed till yesterday so I binge watched the whole thing today. I loved it. I really felt connected to all the characters. Some of the story arcs were so brutal that I couldn't help but tear up. Honoka's story was sad but episode 9 killed me. The only thing I don't feel particularly happy about is Nori's motive. I thought she was trying to give people their pain back, specifically the kids from the first experiment, by absorbing as many people's pain as possible and then jumping which I assumed she thought would cause so much pain that even her apathetic friends would feel it. But then she starts saying how she's afraid that if she gives back the pain she would lose her friends. So then why jump? Why not just hold it all in? I really didn't understand her.
Besides that I think it's probably my favorite Trigger anime. Maybe. TTGL is hard to top but I know I definitely preferred this to the craziness of KLK even though I liked that too.

Also, fuck Chidori. I like her but Nico is clearly best girl. It was so sad watching her get hurt. Tengo was my boy until he chose the wrong girl.
 
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