-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Kiznaiver |OT| Trigger's Wounds Will Not Heal
- Thread starter Jarmel
- Start date
- Status
Cornbread78
Member
Well, that was something. I guess we have the setup for a nice love triangle now. I think we have to know Mori is the girl from all of his flashbacks at this point, but I wonder when we will get the full picture of what happened with feeling pain... Overall, this was a pretty funny episode, but I wonder what the councilor is doing with those boys, lol.
Kiznaiver 04
Relatively uneventful episode but time still flew by. I think it says a lot how much I enjoy character interactions and humor in this show.I think the one thing that bothers me about it is how easily they all bend to the whims of blue haired psycho, well Honoka aside but her whining too is unproductive. Why not try to call police or media or your parents or whoever. I know the answer is, "it's an anime dude." but having a scene where they try to notify authorities, only to, say, find out said authorities are in Kiznaiver committee or in cahoots with it would go long way towards satisfying me on that issue.
Nico is a miracle of the universe and the purest of angels.
Relatively uneventful episode but time still flew by. I think it says a lot how much I enjoy character interactions and humor in this show.I think the one thing that bothers me about it is how easily they all bend to the whims of blue haired psycho, well Honoka aside but her whining too is unproductive. Why not try to call police or media or your parents or whoever. I know the answer is, "it's an anime dude." but having a scene where they try to notify authorities, only to, say, find out said authorities are in Kiznaiver committee or in cahoots with it would go long way towards satisfying me on that issue.
Kiznaiver-5
. Yuta's eyes were more open this episode as well which is probably reflective of the audience seeing the honest side of him rather than his public persona.
. It's noteworthy for a few reasons. The first being that this is the first time we've really seen Tenga be outclassed in fighting in the show. A lot of this episode was about reversing the power dynamics of characters and so we know now that Tenga can't just punch his way out of everything. Since so much of this episode was about bullying, I wonder if Tenga was bullied when he was younger and so learned how to fight as a result. The dog fear and scar (most likely from a dog biting him or scratching him) are probably related to the bullying as well. It also raises the question about the background of the homeroom teacher.
. So far it helps to dial things down while still hitting most of the emotional points. The surreal situations have been pretty entertaining to watch and they're animated in a fun cartoony sort of way and it works well with the heightened character drama. There was some good use of color this episode as well as a cool transition between two characters' faces. This episode was also the first time I was really impressed with the soundtrack, it reminded me of the more dramatic tracks in Haikyuu. I thought Hayashi did a really good job with the song during Chidori's breakdown in particular.
We'll see how the show progresses but this is the first time where I feel I have a grasp on what the show wants to do and how it'll get there. This episode probably gave the most character background and depth out of all the episodes. As I mentioned earlier, the show seems to be about bullying and the coping mechanisms people tend to deploy as a response. A good chunk of this episode was showing the damage bullying causes in different forms as well as what happens when a per.
For example we see that Yuta has to actually work hard at maintaining his figure. He takes pills instead of eating and is pretty much always on a constant diet. The show hasn't directly brought this up, although I imagine it will, but it's probably due to people laughing at him and bullying him about his weight when he was younger. As a response he tries everything to fit in, whether it's being slim or flirting. That was the other aspect revealed about his character in that he seems to flirt more as a way of pretending to be just like everybody else rather than an actual enjoyment of the process or wanting to get laid.
That's an A+ look of disgust!
I thought Maki reversing the dichotomy between the two was a fantastic scene. I was expecting something like Maki beginning to trust him and sleeps with him and him throwing her aside but instead it looks to be rather she might end up having the control in the relationship dynamics
In regards to Maki, it's clear that she has some sort of complex in regards to her body. I'm also thinking that she was bullied possibly due to having large breasts and so never really fit in. She was that perfect person that Nico didn't want to be and as a result, she was turned into an outcast. It's also making me wonder whether that line last episode refuting Nico's attempts at being friends is due to a prior incident when somebody pretended to be friends with her. You can tell though that she's a ticking time bomb.
There wasn't much insight into Sonozaki, Nico, Hisomu, and Tenga. However I did think it was kinda interesting when
Tenga tried to assault the homeroom teacher and got wrecked
Chidori's stuff this episode was an expansion of episode 2. Her breakdown isn't really that interesting on its own but I do like how it delves into the side effects of bullying in that a bullying isn't just harming an individual but also the people that care about the victim. There's a ripple effect to actions like these. Seeing somebody you care about getting demeaned, wears on you as well. In addition, the whole strong emotions being connected too is something I'm sure will be exploited later. I'm now curious as to whether Katsuhira in the beginning actually did mind being bullied but had learned to just accept it as a way of life. I still don't think Katsuhira is that engaging of a protagonist but this episode did mark some development on his front. It's just that we're also almost half of the way through the show's run. I see what they're trying to do but I think he would have been a better fit for a two-cour run.
I think what I said earlier about the direction still holds true. The comedy is helping to offset the dramatic moments such as the
homeroom teacher intruding on the tryst or the group overhearing Chidori bitching about Sonozaki
Overall, this was an outstanding episode.
Cornbread78
Member
Really interesting episode as they now have a physical and emotional bond growing between them. I'm actually enjoying the characters more than I thought I would and their personalities are starting to get more interesting as we go. Chidori does need to chill though and realize she the childhood friend...
She's a regular cute girl-next-door, why the hate?
@Jarmel, another great write-up, keep 'em coming.
Cornbread78
Member
That was pretty damn good stuff. That Katsuhira x Sono convo was short on words, but very impactful. I guess he was further pointing out how she is separating herself more and more by pulling hurtful games with Hono's past. Interested to see what really happened with Ruru next week...
Kiznaiver-6
. The distinction might not matter to most people but for her, that difference was the world. This reminds me of OreGaIru and Hachiman wanting something genuine. Do they care about her because they actually want to be her friends or is it only because of the Kiznaiver system? I suppose that's where Nico comes into play. I appreciated the cast knew they fucked up and why, without a big diatribe on someone's part. Hayashi's score flared up during the scene and he definitely delivered. That track in conjunction with the body language helped to convey the feelings of the characters with minimal dialogue.
. By using repetition, we can assume not only Sonozaki's reaction but the severity of her reaction. The other thing is the way Katsuhira is drawn. While his face might look similar to his normal downtrodden look, it's actually distinctly different which reflects his pissed off mood.
This was really well directed. It doesn't have the visual flair that the previous episode had but this was still done really well especially near the end. The episode used basic stuff such as shadows and physical distance to represent emotional distance. For example above, Maki is the only one in shadow and is physically isolated from everybody else.
There was also these two shots too even inside the group that show via the off-centered frames that Chidori and Tenga are kinda on opposite wavelengths. This is almost certainly setting up the Tenga/Chidori pairing. I can already see the fallout from this a mile away.
There was a lot of emphasis on body language and position this episode. While the side shots of the characters were ugly, they did convey the feelings of both parties pretty accurately. I'm kinda surprised in regards to Yuta, going into the show I expected him to be more of a morally black character but instead he seems like a generally nice guy. This episode also confirmed that Yuta's eyes will be 'open' when he's being honest or heartfelt. In recent episodes he's also being animated more often that way which might indicate his personality is shifting. I thought it was fitting that the person who does the most to hide his inner self is lecturing Maki on being honest. Of the entire cast, these two (besides maybe Sonozaki) put up fronts to the rest of the world. However it's for polar opposite reasons in that Yuta is pretending for shallow reasons while Maki has deep emotional trust issues stemming from Ruru. Yuta is the type who will pretend to be your friend when he isn't lonely while Maki won't pretend to be your friend even when she is lonely.
I guess Yuta is the type of guy who falls for the first girl to treat him like shit.
I really liked this climax not just for the visual direction, which was great, but also the things left unstated. Nobody says it but the reason Maki is so heartbroken is because
Cool shot due to how imposing the camera lens is.
she thought these people were acting like her friends when instead they treated her like a mission
I thought the leadup to this scene and the actual scene itself was extremely impressive for a number of reasons. The first being they used
Maki's twitch to foreshadow Sonozaki's twitch. In the first case, it's extremely obvious to the audience as to what Maki is feeling. In the later case however, the only body language used for most of the scene is Sonozaki's twitch
His mouth at the end is drawn almost as a straight line, while normally his mouth has a sort of upside down U shape to it. I wonder if Katsuhira has a similar standing animation order as to Kirei Kotomine in Fate/Zero, in which the animators went to extreme pains not to animate expression on Kotomine's face. Just as in Fate/Zero, that burst of emotion is all the more powerful due to how generally expression-less the character is. Another aspect of the direction in the scene is how the audience isn't shown Sonozaki's face until the very end of the scene. It's a very surprising level of restraint and general trust in the audience in that the director is depriving the audience of the money shot (being the character's face in this case) and letting us imagine how she's reacting. A similar technique was used in the ending of one of Mr.Robot's episodes in that we see a character reacting but not what they're reacting to and so the audience fills in the gaps using the body language of the character. It's impressive how understated the scene is, both visually and dialogue-based, despite the high emotional level of the characters involved.
What's truly amazing is how this show is both very much Okada and Trigger, and yet works masterfully well so far. This whole episode is just pure Okada fuckery but unlike so many of her prior shows, it actually works. Then on the direction side, the show definitely feels like a Trigger production but it's not drowning in the comedy and showing a striking amount of self-control. Both seem to be elevating (or making tolerable) the other side into a work that knows it's stupid and crazy yet still able to emotionally engage the audience.
I haven't watched more than the first episode of this still. I think Luluco will give me the Trigger fix I wanted in nice, bite-sized chunks.
Pardon me. Let me rephrase: The characters and plot of this show seem kind of shitty and generic to me, personally, in my humble opinion.
Hellwarden
Member
hosannainexcelsis
Member
It's certainly true that if you want Imaishi's Trigger, Kiznaiver will not satisfy you.
OniBarubary
Banned
This is a really good show. I actually enjoy the MC and Sonozaki's monotone delivery and often unemotional reactions because it 1. plays very well off of the very emotional other characters and 2. in scenes with just the two of them you see how much they need to empathize with other people and what they're lacking and how differently, even in their similar emotional states, they are approaching this. MC has no choice, he is forced to feel and understand other's pain. Sonozaki does so by observation and emotional detachment. This latest episode drives home just how effective one is over the other.
Cornbread78
Member
Pretty good resolution to the Maki issues and a great show of solidarity by the crew. I'm surprised Okada didn't go full yuri with Maki andvRuru's relationship. I mean, Maki did sound like she would have been good to go with it.
pancakesandsex
Member
Not wanting to get hurt by getting intimate with someone terminal was the whole reason for the arc though.
OniBarubary
Banned
Show continues to be quite good.
Ruru and Maki's relationship was handled with a deftness I wasn't expecting considering where it went. Does make me wonder if Maki is either
. So funny that Okada's work can be so inconsistent; really really good here and atrocious for Mayoiga.
This season has a surprising amount of great shows.
Ruru and Maki's relationship was handled with a deftness I wasn't expecting considering where it went. Does make me wonder if Maki is either
gay or bi
This season has a surprising amount of great shows.
The Illiterati
Member
I haven't connected with this show at all, but I really liked this episode. Maybe because it contained very little of the dead zone of a main character and his crush, Sonozaki.
It was quite clear that had circumstances been quite different they would have been a couple.
Cornbread78
Member
This is a better way to explain what I meant. It was a really good characterization of how she didn't want to hurt herself with the relationship, but I was expecting Okada to script it differently.
OniBarubary
Banned
Oh I know, I meant moreso which of the two she was not
"oh man, I wonder if she's not straight????"
CornBurrito
Member
The Loli chick almost made me drop the show in Episode 1 but I'm glad I gave it more of a chance.
A question with perhaps more verisimilitude given how much Nico reminded Maki of things.
OniBarubary
Banned
Truth.
CornBurrito
Member
They're really dragging out the Sonozaki/KizunaCompany thing out.
I'm also kind of upset because since this episode was focused on the actually good characters, next episode is bound to be focused on Sonozaki/KizunaCompany. Which sucks because Sonozaki is like the worst character on the show besides the two fucking teachers.
I'm also kind of upset because since this episode was focused on the actually good characters, next episode is bound to be focused on Sonozaki/KizunaCompany. Which sucks because Sonozaki is like the worst character on the show besides the two fucking teachers.
Next episode is focused on Tenga.
Sonozaki/Kizuna is clearly end game stuff.
Ep 7 was great by the way and I say that as someone who wasn't overly fond of Maki.
CornBurrito
Member
Oh thank god. Hopefully Sonozaki can be left off screen for as long as possible.
Cornbread78
Member
Hey at least the anime streak of childhood friends getting screwed out of relationships will continue with Chidori..
Poor her..
Poor her..
Cornbread78
Member
Everything is pointing to Tenga x Chidori. Not sure what's your point here
I'm ok with this, but s part of me wants a surprising "cucked" moment towards the end when Tenga steals Sono from right under his nose then Tenga cgers a harem with Sono, Chidori and the runt...
Cornbread78
Member
Harsh..LOL
Chidori is a childhood friend and was only created so we can feel bad for her suffering.
with that in mind, yeah,
Nico x Tenga
Maki x Yuta (they will finish what Maki started)
Katsu x Nori
Chidori x Alone, suffering as a childhood friend always does
Hiso x Alone amusing himself through the other's painful experiences; the ultimate masochist...
Kiznaiver-7
was a good way of visually indicating what had happened without any sort of dialogue confirmation. The red being used in this case as an indication of
. The contrast serves to make for a visually interesting shot in that there is just one vibrant color so it really emphasizes that one color and directs the viewer's attention. The umbrella is also used at the end when Maki drops it, as a way of signaling that she's letting go of
. I thought that was somewhat clever to tie in the same umbrella and that the ending isn't just the symbolism of Maki washing away her guilt.
This episode was further confirmation that the direction is helping to offset much of the melodramatic side. For example in the above scene, this should have been a very serious moment in the show but the huge ass pictures give a comedic element to the scene due to the audience viewer wondering how egotistical either Ruru was or how insane her parents are. It also serves as a visual motif to remind the viewer as to how Ruru's presence is looming over the entire group, literally in this case. This wasn't likely something done in the writing phase but rather during storyboarding. The episode directors/storyboarders have been using the surreal elements to highlight the absurdity of the situation but not to the extent where the whole thing becomes comedic like Mayoiga.
This episode wasn't subtle, unlike the prior episode. The physical distance in shots being symbolic for the emotional distance between Maki and Ruru is pretty dead obvious. However it works just as well due to the severity of the emotions involved. It serves as a good indicator of Maki's mental state in how she tried to isolate herself from Ruru, and was currently doing so with her fellow Kiznaivers.
I really liked this scene because on first glance you would think the framing would indicate the closeness of Maki and Ruru due to how they're placed close together, in that they're both close in their individual frames to an imaginary center line. However the dead space on both sides of their separate frames indicates an absence, in this case of each other. Prior scenes had them sharing equal space on the sides of a frame, such as when they're meeting the publisher or having their picture taken, but here there's nothing on either side of their body.
I also liked the contrast in lighting which helped to reflect Maki's mood in that in the earlier scene she's happy and so the bright lights reflect her mood and similarly after the bedroom fiasco, she's much more sullen and the red could indicate her desire to end her relationship with Ruru.
The use of red in the show also seems to indicate a delusion so it might be hinting that this part of the scene actually didn't happen and instead it's Maki's own delusions and insecurity talking rather than actual reflection of reality.
kashira? kashira?
Speaking of color, I thought the muted colors on everything besides the umbrella when
Ruru died
death
Ruru's death
Something I liked about the ending was how they put a reintroduction for the characters in, despite being seven episodes into the show. In this case it serves to highlight how the group are becoming friends due to their informality. It works to not only bookmark the episode in that Maki now has a group of friends but the show as a whole to this point as well. Despite being all separate people with vastly different personalities, they're also developing as friends. In addition, there's some really good bokeh in the shots of the city in the background.
The soundtrack was especially good this episode such as during the rain montage and when the group is playing in the river. I feel like this is the better Hayashi score this season as he's not just rehashing his earlier stuff, such as with MHA and GBF. The character animation was pretty good as well such as Tenga's speech or Yuta's hilarious running animation. Overall this was a surprisingly good ending for Maki's arc and the staff dodged a lot of the pitfalls I was expecting them to fall into. The show surprised me in that I was expecting this to be about bullying but they twisted it into a relatively compelling story about guilt and self-forgiveness.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Y'know the lighting in this show is really something else. KyoAni finally has some competition.
Ragnorok64
Member
Anyone got a gif of that Yuta slide up?
Ragnorok64
Member
Thanks.
Cornbread78
Member
Poor Chidori, she just got rekt in that episode. I mean, she should expect it as the true childhood friend archetype, but damn, that was rough. Katsuhira was like a hero here, but what was up with Nori's neck.... That tease just wasn't right.... Looks like the breakthrough cones next week now
OniBarubary
Banned
The Nico shit came outta left field and I didn't like it at all. There was literally 0 indication she liked Tenga so it feels really bullshit. I did however quite like Hisomu's very subtle defensiveness and lashing out at Maki as well as the out of focus shading and eye design for her when Yuta caught up to her. Chidori getting treated like she deserves, fucking ignored. Though that whole scene was really well directed with her being in the background constantly talking and emoting with no audio while the kid stuff happened in the foreground.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It's weird that you say there was no indication of it but I saw people discussing it repeatedly over the last few episodes.
- Status