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Kotaku: Facebooks VR division lost over $13.72 billion in 2022. $4 billion loss just in Q4 2022.

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
No, there was a recent interview or investor meeting where Zuckercuck copped to their actual software spend, which would only include Horizons in your example. Pro and their pie in the sky future tech stuff would be lumped in with R&D and hardware development, which dwarfs the 4 or 5 billion for software Zuck quoted "over the past 2 or 3 years". The R&D umbrella would account for the additional 30+ billion spent over that same span. They've been spending over 10 billion on VR every year for like the past 5 years. As I said, he has mentioned software was "only" 1.5 - 2 billion of that every year.
I meant the software for Quest pro and the software part of the face recreation. I bet they spent several hundred million on the latest quest 2 update that brings avatars to the menu screen a couple hundred million of that on meetings about whether to have male and female body options.
 

Skifi28

Member
I want to live in the Metaverse!
L0Msmrx.jpg
 
It can't run shit on its weak hardware. All the big games were released for pc vr.

This isn't much different for most of PSVR1 and Gear etc, when most of the best games were on expensive high-end PCVR.

The new headsets coming out in the next few months will have maybe 1.5-2 years as viable before falling behind the top of the line just like before. The most accessible software will be on entry-level VR also just as before,
 
No they didn't. If PCVR were a viable platform, the addition of 20 million extra Quest 2 headsets that can connect to a PC should have been extra incentive for developers, but...the interest still isn't there.
Wrong, they shifted the production of AAA games to make cheap profitable games and make more money.
 
This isn't much different for most of PSVR1 and Gear etc, when most of the best games were on expensive high-end PCVR.

The new headsets coming out in the next few months will have maybe 1.5-2 years as viable before falling behind the top of the line just like before. The most accessible software will be on entry-level VR also just as before,
Screw accessible, vr is niche and I want high end vr, not shovelware and shallow experiences for the masses
 
I haven't looked into meta's earning but it's moving

hEfSG2c.jpg
They announced "better than expected" revenue during their earnings report, which a lot of analysts didn't see coming. The big Investors really Loved that news, even in the face of those massive losses from their metaverse segment.

My cousin had call's on them from nearly a year out, his call's were 3400% last week. I told him to GTFO as his exp date is 2/17. He's still up, but likely much lower than 3400% lol
 

mckmas8808

Banned
It's still mind-blowing to me that Facebook is losing over $1 Billion a month on their VR division. Yet, I'm supposed to be shocked and excited that they sold 20 million MetaQuest 2 headsets in 2 years. It's a lot easier to do when you are selling the devices for $150 under the BOM. And this was in 2020. No idea what they BOM is today with increased cost for supplies.

 

Gorgyles

Banned
I've been in the VR world for several years now.
It's not ready. Slightly updated hardware doesn't fix the big problem.

The big problem is that there's only 3 truly compelling games.
One is a traditional platformer stuck in an old VR ecosystem.
One is stuck on high end hardware.
The last is a music game that I'm sick of playing.

First Person Locomotion sucks
Triggers as fingers sucks (thanks, Jank Lab)
And VR Porn is a hellscape that makes me feel horrible about myself.

I'm a huge gamer and I love tech and I couldn't think of any reasons not to ditch my Quest 2.
Imagine trying to win over the casuals at this price point.

God bless!
 
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ResurrectedContrarian

Suffers with mild autism
Quest didn't ruin high-end PC VR, if anything it has helped to keep that barely viable market alive (and I love PC VR, don't get me wrong).

Every single person I know personally who plays PC VR--which is only about 3 guys--first got into PC VR after picking up a Quest2. It was suddenly an affordable proposition if you already had a PC, instead of something like Valve's $1,000 setup. And it takes up way less space & complication than the competition, thanks to the easy barrier-scan system. After Quest launched, any PC VR setup that requires multiple cables and external cameras suddenly became obsolete and a bit ridiculous to consider.
 
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It's still mind-blowing to me that Facebook is losing over $1 Billion a month on their VR division. Yet, I'm supposed to be shocked and excited that they sold 20 million MetaQuest 2 headsets in 2 years. It's a lot easier to do when you are selling the devices for $150 under the BOM. And this was in 2020. No idea what they BOM is today with increased cost for supplies.


Most likely, like the Wii effect, half of these devices were used for a few weeks or months then put away after the honey moon phase and the lack of good quality games...
 

NickFire

Member
It's still mind-blowing to me that Facebook is losing over $1 Billion a month on their VR division. Yet, I'm supposed to be shocked and excited that they sold 20 million MetaQuest 2 headsets in 2 years. It's a lot easier to do when you are selling the devices for $150 under the BOM. And this was in 2020. No idea what they BOM is today with increased cost for supplies.


I don’t understand how it’s even possible to lose that much in a year. It’s kind of impressive determination by whoever says keep going. And is anyone checking that guys expense slips?
 
Quest didn't ruin high-end PC VR, if anything it has helped to keep that barely viable market alive (and I love PC VR, don't get me wrong).

Every single person I know personally who plays PC VR--which is only about 3 guys--first got into PC VR after picking up a Quest2. It was suddenly an affordable proposition if you already had a PC, instead of something like Valve's $1,000 setup. And it takes up way less space & complication than the competition, thanks to the easy barrier-scan system. After Quest launched, any PC VR setup that requires multiple cables and external cameras suddenly became obsolete and a bit ridiculous to consider.
The focus on quest 2 did screw AAA vr gaming, or do you think that publishers wouldn't see that success and shift development to a profitable mobile hardware? Why would they commit to pcvr AAA titles when most people buying the quest 2 are casuals that play beat saber and don't have a powerful pc?
Also, where are the big AAA vr games now? The hope is for psvr 2 now, cause Facebook only cares about the Meta verse and their social media agenda
 
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mckmas8808

Banned
I don’t understand how it’s even possible to lose that much in a year. It’s kind of impressive determination by whoever says keep going. And is anyone checking that guys expense slips?

And here's the worse part.......it's getting worst literally EVERY year!

Meta’s AR and VR ambitions come with a significant price tag: Meta’s Reality Labs unit lost $10.2 billion last year, the company revealed as part of its Q4 2021 earnings report Wednesday. In 2020, the unit lost around $6.6 billion.


So we have.....

2020: -$6.6 Billion lost
2021: -$10.2 Billion lost
2022: -$13.7 Billion lost


How is this sustainable for Facebook? That's $30 Billion worth of loses in 3 years total!!! The Meta Quest 2 came out in 2020. Looking deeper into it, it's starting to make me get worried about the overall VR market if people think "Meta" is supposed to be the market leaders.

With loses like that, how can they be considered the global VR market leaders?
 
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NickFire

Member
And here's the worse part.......it's getting worst literally EVERY year!


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So we have.....

2020: -$6.6 Billion lost
2021: -$10.2 Billion lost
2022: -$13.7 Billion lost


How is this sustainable for Facebook? That's $30 Billion worth of loses in 3 years total!!! The Meta Quest 2 came out in 2020. Looking deeper into it, it's starting to make me get worried about the overall VR market if people think "Meta" is supposed to be the market leaders.

With loses like that, how can they be considered the global VR market leaders?
That’s 30 Billion dollars they ain’t ever getting back. How though? I just don’t get it.

But no need to fret over VR IMO. I would have about a week or two ago and all times prior. GT7 has changed my opinion. Truly didn’t think the tech was there for ease of use VR yet before seeing those vids. Those 30 Billion in losses have made VR fairly mainstream. The plan worked in that respect. It’s just not the company who lost it that will enjoy the return on investment I suspect.
 
Screw accessible, vr is niche and I want high end vr, not shovelware and shallow experiences for the masses

The problem is they need those sales, otherwise as we've seen investment dries up and then sales and support stagnate.

I feel like anyone involved in VR are taking losses. Who’s buying it? And is it as sustainable long term as tried and true controller, kbm gaming? I highly doubt it.

There was talk in past about whether any of the first wave of headsets, even on the MobileVR end before that collapsed, were actually making money back in 2018-2019.

It's looking rather questionable, Facebook had a cheap headset (Quest 3) off another cheap headset (Quest) and lost a ton at entry-level without that much investment in high calibur games, and they produced the best selling VR game in the industry across all headsets, so how much is everyone else losing?
 

wolywood

Member
Until entering the metaverse is as easy and painless as putting on and taking off a pair of sunglasses (no headsets, no wires) it's never going to achieve anything close to mainstream adoption. And even then I have serious doubts how much time people will actually want to spend in these rudimentary virtual worlds.
 

ResurrectedContrarian

Suffers with mild autism
Also, where are the big AAA vr games now? The hope is for psvr 2 now, cause Facebook only cares about the Meta verse and their social media agenda

Only one company--Valve--has ever released a "AAA" VR game.

But who cares about those categories? There's a ton of content in VR that I enjoy on Steam. It doesn't have to be a $60 full-length game to be fantastic.
 

Haint

Member
That’s 30 Billion dollars they ain’t ever getting back. How though? I just don’t get it.

But no need to fret over VR IMO. I would have about a week or two ago and all times prior. GT7 has changed my opinion. Truly didn’t think the tech was there for ease of use VR yet before seeing those vids. Those 30 Billion in losses have made VR fairly mainstream. The plan worked in that respect. It’s just not the company who lost it that will enjoy the return on investment I suspect.

They recognize Facebook is on the downward Myspace/AOL/Yahoo death spiral and are making the bet/prediction that VR/AR will ultimately replace your phone, computer, and TV.
 
Only one company--Valve--has ever released a "AAA" VR game.

But who cares about those categories? There's a ton of content in VR that I enjoy on Steam. It doesn't have to be a $60 full-length game to be fantastic.
Wrong, there s Asgard's Wrath, and a few other AAA vr titles on pcvr. Who cares? Not casuals obviously
 
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mckmas8808

Banned
Until entering the metaverse is as easy and painless as putting on and taking off a pair of sunglasses (no headsets, no wires) it's never going to achieve anything close to mainstream adoption. And even then I have serious doubts how much time people will actually want to spend in these rudimentary virtual worlds.

You sound like a grandpa betting against social media in the 90s and thinking nobody would want to stare at a phone for more than 20 minutes a day lol.


Only one company--Valve--has ever released a "AAA" VR game.

But who cares about those categories? There's a ton of content in VR that I enjoy on Steam. It doesn't have to be a $60 full-length game to be fantastic.

Not true at all. The following are AAA VR games.

tumblr_okpliklZ3e1vm2ftdo3_r1_540.gif

1*2Of-8UsiIkgS882jr0cYOQ.jpeg




giphy.gif

hzi23pnwtpgiyenf4xgh-1024x576.jpg
 

ResurrectedContrarian

Suffers with mild autism
You sound like a grandpa betting against social media in the 90s and thinking nobody would want to stare at a phone for more than 20 minutes a day lol.




Not true at all. The following are AAA VR games.

tumblr_okpliklZ3e1vm2ftdo3_r1_540.gif

1*2Of-8UsiIkgS882jr0cYOQ.jpeg


giphy.gif

hzi23pnwtpgiyenf4xgh-1024x576.jpg

RE7 doesn't really qualify because it still uses the gamepad for everything and has very little VR immersion of space and movement beyond your head. RE4 on the Quest2 is a much more worthy addition to VR, for what it's worth, because it's not just a 3D mode on a controller game and actually uses free motion extremely well.

I own Lone Echo and it's a very cool game, but... I don't know if it qualifies for some high AAA status. Outside of VR, the game would have been a $20 light 5-hour puzzle adventure on steam with "mostly positive" reviews. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy it, but it's not even on the same map as something like Alyx. BoneWorks/Lab is much closer in fact.
 
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wolywood

Member
You sound like a grandpa betting against social media in the 90s and thinking nobody would want to stare at a phone for more than 20 minutes a day lol.
That’s cool. VR proponents sound like those cult leaders who promise their followers that the Rapture is coming any day now and have to keep pushing back the date when it doesn’t actually happen.
 

Crayon

Member
That’s cool. VR proponents sound like those cult leaders who promise their followers that the Rapture is coming any day now and have to keep pushing back the date when it doesn’t actually happen.

Most recent post that sounds like that? Surely somewhere in this thread? Or one of the several others floating around?
 

SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
What's shocking to me is that in all that spending they haven't produced any real marquee first party titles in over two years.

They got so up their ass with this Metaverse idea that they forgot that people play games not abstract concepts for interaction paradigms. Their Metaverse has nothing of interest on it and their first party lineup is barren. Some talented third party devs have still been pumping out some games but Meta just hasn't.
 
I think this was due to the Metaverse failing. You can only money hat so many people, but if the concept fails you’re up shits creek.

VR is great but needs more triple A titles. A game like Zelda or Mario would be great in VR where one would have to maneuver around the player. And the player would have to interact with objects or find things to help their character. There aren’t many games like that.

RTS or City Builders would also be a welcome addition.
 
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poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
What's shocking to me is that in all that spending they haven't produced any real marquee first party titles in over two years.

They got so up their ass with this Metaverse idea that they forgot that people play games not abstract concepts for interaction paradigms. Their Metaverse has nothing of interest on it and their first party lineup is barren. Some talented third party devs have still been pumping out some games but Meta just hasn't.
Meta isn't in this for games, we have a thread trumpeting Sony's best ever Q3 with 9 billion revenue and 800 million profit. In 2022 Meta had 27.2 billion in q3 revenue from advertising, and had 4 billion in net income and that was a shitty q3 for them. They don't give 2 shits about gaming - its high risk, low reward - they want to be on the ground floor for the next evolution of the internet and social media, games are just the thin edge of the wedge
 

Crayon

Member
There's no hope for VR without some huge huge improvement or maybe just a complete rethink

Just needs more. More games, better/cheaperr headsets. Plenty of people are interested from afay but nowhere nearr able to justify the high costs AND limited libraries.

...

I still think it was a bad move to go after casuals with quest. They gave away millions of the things presumably in preparation forr the metaverse rollout but too many of those people have moved on to their new bike or new tv or whatever. Their quest was like 10 impulse buys ago.
 
What's shocking to me is that in all that spending they haven't produced any real marquee first party titles in over two years.

They got so up their ass with this Metaverse idea that they forgot that people play games not abstract concepts for interaction paradigms. Their Metaverse has nothing of interest on it and their first party lineup is barren. Some talented third party devs have still been pumping out some games but Meta just hasn't.
That's what pissed me off the most. The games are just a step ladder for their master plan of metaverse and world domination. They don't really care about games. Worst thing ever for vr was Facebook buying oculus
 
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SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
That's what pissed me off the most. The games are just a step ladder for their master plan of metaverse and world domination. They don't really care about games. Worst thing ever for vr was Facebook buying oculus
Look, even if that was the case at least it would be building to something, but the problem is that that step ladder is missing a few rungs.

Like they've put a bunch of white boards on the wall and now they're wondering why no one is coming to their art museum. You gotta bring some content yourself you can't expect everyone to just show up and do it for you.
 
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SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Meta isn't in this for games, we have a thread trumpeting Sony's best ever Q3 with 9 billion revenue and 800 million profit. In 2022 Meta had 27.2 billion in q3 revenue from advertising, and had 4 billion in net income and that was a shitty q3 for them. They don't give 2 shits about gaming - its high risk, low reward - they want to be on the ground floor for the next evolution of the internet and social media, games are just the thin edge of the wedge
I know but their customers are in for game at least right now. There isn't an actual viable "Metaverse" yet just a barebones framework where one could be. They need games and they need to build actual shit to do in their Metaverse. They can't just expect users to build everything for them.
 

iHaunter

Member
Are they actually losing that much due to VR? Or are they losing stock worth that much because of a shitty product and lack of confidence from shareholders? How can it be possible to lose that much just from VR?
 

Crayon

Member
Someone is going to get this corporate second life thing eventually.

I wasn't paying too close attention so maybe I got info on the metaverse more like normies. My impression was that people were confused over what the metaverse was or why they would want it. Then I saw some hideous images that made me laugh.

Even when a corp manages to get one off the ground, it won't be the same. Those online virtual spaces are fun because all the shady shit that goes on.
 
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