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TheVerge: I don’t think Meta knows it’s a game company

https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/4/23623081/meta-quest-3-ps3-xbox-one-video-games-yikes
Meta changed its name because it wanted you to forever associate it with the nascent metaverse. The hardware it produces is meant to be our window into that metaverse. When you pick up a Meta Quest 2 headset and slip it over your head, you’re meant to gasp and softly wonder at this new virtual world. But I put on my Meta Quest 2 to play Beat Saber or Tetris or maybe Pistol Whip. It’s not a terminal into the metaverse — it’s a game console. And I don’t think Meta realizes that.

Earlier this week, my extremely well-named colleague Alex Heath reported on Meta’s VR and AR headset road map. There are smart glasses that sound virtually identical to those made by North back in 2019, only Meta’s will be controlled via neural interface when they launch in two years. There’s a tremendously ambitious AR headset codenamed Orion that will apparently “project high-quality holograms of avatars onto the real world” and launch in 2027. These projects are expensive big swings for Meta and its pivot to the metaverse, and that should be exciting. Only late last year, we got Meta’s first big metaverse swing, the then-$1,499 Meta Quest Pro. The product was an absolute boondoggle of a device. Its accompanying software, Horizon World, is so bad that even the people who make it don’t want to use it. That software is supposed to be the gateway to the metaverse. If it sucks, Meta’s take on the metaverse is pretty stuck in the water.

But as bad as Meta is at the metaverse thus far, the company is really, really good at VR. VR is, of course, supposed to be a component of the metaverse, but judging by its existing lineup of products, that’s not the part Meta is good at. It’s good at making a console people want to play games on.
So if you look at the Quest 2, which most people use for playing games, as a game console, it’s done reasonably well. And I think we do need to look at it as a gaming console. Meta might have big ambitions for VR headsets and their place in the metaverse, but the reality is that the top software on the Quest 2 are all games. VR early adopters in the consumer space buy headsets to play games. Devices like the Oculus Rift, HTC Vive, and the PSVR (which sold around 5 million headsets by 2020) were adopted by consumers to play video games, not dick around in a barely built metaverse.
And the push for the Quest 2 to be a metaverse device hasn’t especially resonated with consumers. Rabkin told staff that “sadly, the newer cohorts that are coming in, the people who bought it this last Christmas, they’re just not as into it” as the early adopters. Those early adopters were eager to play games, and that’s what they saw when they slipped the headset on. New users are seeing ads for stuff like Horizon Worlds, which, again, is such a mess even the people who make it don’t want to play it.

The article goes into some strange territory here, but the article writer said he believes, and is arguing, that the Quest 2 is a gaming console. But I find this funny because it doesn't have the investment for one, and it has games that are tech demos or similar to the type of software you would find on mobile and tablet.

We don't know the fully number of Quest 2's sold, but it and Quest 1 combined are close to 20 million, and when Beat Saber which came out in 2019 has maybe sold around ~5 million units is the biggest game and among the highest software sales of any game or app on Quest devices, with many others far behind, a of which software and ahrdware losing billions, that is one of the most unsustainable gaming consoles I've ever seen if you were to agree with this argument. Especially at the rate of the losses alng with the amounts.

He says Meta is good at making a console people want to play games on. Which is the opposite criticism most people have toward Zuckers vision. While I agree the writer has a point that games are selling points for VR, to call the Quest 2 a console is silly, as games are still not moving much software or hardware in the VR market overall, not just on Quest. Especially not console numbers.

Now heading toward 4 years later, VR gaming is still represented by Beat Saber in 2023, that's a pretty big problem imo, to view Quest 2 as a gaming console.
 
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diffusionx

Gold Member
I agree with the article, I don't see how Meta is any different from Nintendo or Sony. And when Oculus came out originally, they acted like it, but then invested more and more into Metaverse and stopped funding as many titles for their platform.
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
Breaking News! They are not a gaming company games just help to sell their VR Headset
They're as much of a gaming company as Sony or Microsoft, not like Nintendo because their main revenue source is another but gaming is definitely an important part of their business
 

Kumomeme

Member
lot of 'innovative, revolutionary' stuff these 'metaverse' company claim is something already done ages ago in videogame. particularly MMO.
they trying to claim it as a new things but the fact is, they just very late to the party and being clueless all these time.
"Most of the people who are talking about metaverse have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. And they've apparently never played an MMO. They're like, 'Oh, you'll have this customizable avatar.' And it's like, well... go into La Noscea in Final Fantasy 14 and tell me that this isn't a solved problem from a decade ago, not some fabulous thing that you're, you know, inventing." - Gabe Newell
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Games sell vr, not metaverse.
Agreed.

All the VR headset makers are using games as the selling point. But in the background, you got some like Meta and MS trying to build all the social media and corporate VR stuff asap.

They are hoping when all that non-gaming stuff gets built up, it's good enough to keep all the VR gamers around as they'll have both gaming and non-gaming apps to use. Games are easy to understand, non-gaming isnt.

But non-gaming is where the money really is. Meta alone makes $20B profit per year. And that bakes in their -$10B loss on VR labs. So really they make $30B profit per year from social media. That's more than all the big gaming companies combined. If VR can even achieve a fraction of their social media profits, and get maybe $5B worth from tons of sales of headsets, software cuts, VR integrated ads etc.... it's worth pursuing I guess. They've already sunk a shit load of money into VR Labs and not giving up, so something in their board room slides shows VR is a pot of gold at some point in the future.

If MS at some point can make VR work life giant, it might become one of their productivity product lines making billions of profit too. Add with all the bandwidth needed it likely hooks into Azure servers too which is even more money.
 
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Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
Their hybrid style is good though. Game company but with a lot of apps, web browser, and work application. Switch doesn't have a web browser or apps.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Exactly what models of the Xbox one featured a coax line-in so it could be used as a cable box? Sounds like it could have shifted some units getting rented out by the cable co's. Model I had just had an hdmi-in, a lot less interesting. :messenger_beaming:
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Exactly what models of the Xbox one featured a coax line-in so it could be used as a cable box? Sounds like it could have shifted some units getting rented out by the cable co's. Model I had just had an hdmi-in, a lot less interesting. :messenger_beaming:
HDMI-In in those old Xbox units was awesome. After one of their updates you could even adjust the sound mix between the game and TV feed.

I played a lot of game time playing a game while watching a baseball or hockey game in the picture in picture feed.
 
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Three

Member
Exactly what models of the Xbox one featured a coax line-in so it could be used as a cable box? Sounds like it could have shifted some units getting rented out by the cable co's. Model I had just had an hdmi-in, a lot less interesting. :messenger_beaming:
s-l400.jpg

-1407420254501.jpg
 
What they want by their own admission is to have people wearing this device – that essentially controls their perception of reality – for much of the day. That's why they're sinking money into it and that's why they're using gaming as a kind of trojan horse.

My opinion is that they want to sell businesses on the idea of using these as a means to control & surveil their employees. And they want everyone in on this ecosystem so they can sell services, ads and data while also having an unprecedented amount of control over people's perceived realities.

Whether or not it's practical or will work is another matter. Not like they're grafted to your face. But if you're okay with the idea of Meta having this kind of control then holy shit dude
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
What they want by their own admission is to have people wearing this device – that essentially controls their perception of reality – for much of the day. That's why they're sinking money into it and that's why they're using gaming as a kind of trojan horse.

My opinion is that they want to sell businesses on the idea of using these as a means to control & surveil their employees. And they want everyone in on this ecosystem so they can sell services, ads and data while also having an unprecedented amount of control over people's perceived realities.

Whether or not it's practical or will work is another matter. Not like they're grafted to your face. But if you're okay with the idea of Meta having this kind of control then holy shit dude
Meta and MS better hurry up on their focus on VR office life because more and more companies are making workers return to office. The more a company makes people come back, the less need for VR virtual board rooms.

I think just about every office worker is used to Zoom or Teams meetings. So whatever VR office app they got planned better be groundbreaking in order for companies to buy VR sets, license VR software and workers accepting putting these on at home.
 

Three

Member
What they want by their own admission is to have people wearing this device – that essentially controls their perception of reality – for much of the day. That's why they're sinking money into it and that's why they're using gaming as a kind of trojan horse.

My opinion is that they want to sell businesses on the idea of using these as a means to control & surveil their employees. And they want everyone in on this ecosystem so they can sell services, ads and data while also having an unprecedented amount of control over people's perceived realities.

Whether or not it's practical or will work is another matter. Not like they're grafted to your face. But if you're okay with the idea of Meta having this kind of control then holy shit dude
While I don't have doubts that they will mine data I'd argue they have these already with your phone and laptops. I think it's more that these companies investment in things like google glass, Quest, Hololens, etc because they believe that it could eventually be the device that replaces all devices.

If the technology is advanced enough a mixed reality headset could replace your phone, laptop, console and TV.
 
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Ozriel

M$FT
The article goes into some strange territory here, but the article writer said he believes, and is arguing, that the Quest 2 is a gaming console. But I find this funny because it doesn't have the investment for one, and it has games that are tech demos or similar to the type of software you would find on mobile and tablet.

this is incorrect. There are full fledged games on the Quest store, several made by Meta themselves. Who do you think funded the Resident evil 4 VR port? Or made Echo VR?


We don't know the fully number of Quest 2's sold, but it and Quest 1 combined are close to 20 million, and when Beat Saber which came out in 2019 has maybe sold around ~5 million units is the biggest game and among the highest software sales of any game or app on Quest devices, with many others far behind, a of which software and ahrdware losing billions, that is one of the most unsustainable gaming consoles I've ever seen if you were to agree with this argument. Especially at the rate of the losses alng with the amounts.

The article cites estimates of 15 milllion Quest 2 sold, and selling 5 million units on a 20 million install base is very very good…few console games manage that.


Quest 2 + gaming software isn’t losing Meta billions. Those losses stem from Zuck’s aimless Metaverse investments. That’s the crux of the article…Meta can have a successful gaming headset but they keep getting distracted into wild and grand Metaverse dreams that are destined for doom.
 
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Drizzlehell

Banned
To assume that VR is meant for anything other than playing games or watching porn is misguided and it will run this company into the ground. They're desperate to make it into an ad dispenser and a virtual shopping machine but that's not what people want at all, and it's baffling that they're just keep swimming against the current with retarded determination.
 

Buggy Loop

Member
Have they ever made... a game?

They've bought 9 studios since late 2019. FTC even tried to stop some acquisitions but it failed.

They own
  • Beat games : Beat Saber, might have heard of it
  • Sanzaru Games : Asgard's Wrath
  • Ready at Dawn : Lone Echo 1 & 2
  • Downpour Interactive : Onward
  • BigBox : Population : one
  • Within : Supernatural (fitness)
  • Twisted Pixel games : Wilson's heart, Defector, Path of the Warrior
  • Armature Studio : RE 4 VR
  • Camouflaj : Iron Man VR
Asgard's Wrath and Lone echo being absolutely must plays full fledge games.

Asgard's Wrath was pretty much seen as VR's most ambitious game when it released in 2019







 
they ain't a game company. they are an advertising company pretending to be a social network and gaming company.

why do you think they are desperate to get you to wear a headset? lots more data to harvest off you especially when headsets become mixed reality and people start wearing them outside.

they didn't just change their entire focus and name around to sell games lol. they are betting hard on the meta verse.
 
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Wonko_C

Member
During its lifetime the Wii U sold a bit more than half what Quest 2 has sold in its two years. Even with those numbers nobody disputed Wii U isn't a console.
 
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Games sell vr, not metaverse.

Does it? The numbers don't link wit that outside of more niche headsets primarily focused on it.

During its lifetime the Wii U sold a bit more than half what Quest 2 has sold in its two years. Even with those numbers nobody disputed Wii U isn't a console.

Wii u shipped 13 million, Quest 2 was over 15 million last year. But Wii U has 400 mountains times the software sales related to games.

Don't they make games for their VR set? They just bought a VR dev not long ago

Facebook has brought at least 6 devs and hasn't released a game from a single one. The other dev they brought already released Beat Saber before they brought them.

It may be all those are for Quest Ventura/Quest3.

Have they ever made... a game?

They have not released a single new game since acquiring any studio so far. So technically no.

To assume that VR is meant for anything other than playing games or watching porn is misguided and it will run this company into the ground. They're desperate to

The article writer believes this, not Zucker.

this is incorrect. There are full fledged games on the Quest store, several made by Meta themselves. Who do you think funded the Resident evil 4 VR port? Or made Echo VR?

It's not incorrect you didn't even read what you quoted, which was talking about the majority of games on the Quest store, which are games typically not considered real console games, despite the journalist arguing that Quest 2 is a game console.

The article cites estimates of 15 milllion Quest 2 sold, and selling 5 million units on a 20 million install base is very very good…few console games manage that.

No it's not good. It's a worse version of the N64 argument you are making. it took 2 years to sell 4 million with no official numbers since over a year later, and even if we assume it's at 5, it would do it mostly frontloaded, wit no competition because VR software sales are horrible. Among the best selling VR games most of which were from earlier. Beat saber from 2019 until Among Us VR which is a recent release, was selling by itself.

This is not a healthy ecossytem, which explains why FB won't give software sales even for non games, and are now DCing retention issues they were denying before because people started leaking stuff. Not just for hardware, but also stuff like Horizon Worlds etc.

It's only impressive with no context and looking at absolute figures which would make it easy to argue attach rate, but the attach rate isn't actually real when all the pieces are together.

Quest 2 + gaming software isn’t losing Meta billions. Those losses stem from Zuck’s aimless Metaverse investments.

Except both of those were big reasons for the loss, and not just for last year, but also in 2021, and in 2020. Also, they expect to lose more money in 2023, everything involved with RL loses money. IF Quest 2 and gaming were breaking even or profitable they would have said it. When you have Pico losing tons chasing after Meta without the metaverse stuff, cutting back production, cutting forecasts by 50 percent, and laying off tons of people, I think it's safe to say VR isn't sustainable hardware/games/store not just the metaverse. Also Tencent cancelled their headset, cut off people, and said nope and walked out the room, and they have the money to jump in and then some.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
https://www.theverge.com/2023/3/4/23623081/meta-quest-3-ps3-xbox-one-video-games-yikes



The article goes into some strange territory here, but the article writer said he believes, and is arguing, that the Quest 2 is a gaming console. But I find this funny because it doesn't have the investment for one, and it has games that are tech demos or similar to the type of software you would find on mobile and tablet.

We don't know the fully number of Quest 2's sold, but it and Quest 1 combined are close to 20 million, and when Beat Saber which came out in 2019 has maybe sold around ~5 million units is the biggest game and among the highest software sales of any game or app on Quest devices, with many others far behind, a of which software and ahrdware losing billions, that is one of the most unsustainable gaming consoles I've ever seen if you were to agree with this argument. Especially at the rate of the losses alng with the amounts.

He says Meta is good at making a console people want to play games on. Which is the opposite criticism most people have toward Zuckers vision. While I agree the writer has a point that games are selling points for VR, to call the Quest 2 a console is silly, as games are still not moving much software or hardware in the VR market overall, not just on Quest. Especially not console numbers.

Now heading toward 4 years later, VR gaming is still represented by Beat Saber in 2023, that's a pretty big problem imo, to view Quest 2 as a gaming console.

People like you need to stop throwing around the word "tech demos" so easily. Just because something isn't a 50-hour RPG, doesn't mean it's a tech demo. But yes, the MetaQuest 2 is a gaming console first that does other things. Like the PS4, Xbox One, etc. To say it's not a gaming console is just you or anybody else just lying to themselves.
 
But yes, the MetaQuest 2 is a gaming console first that does other things. Like the PS4, Xbox One, etc. To say it's not a gaming console is just you or anybody else just lying to themselves.

You should tell Zucker that then because he doesn't and he thinks the Future is Horizon worlds, and most recent updates have little to do with gaming as well.

Just because Quest 2 plays games doesn't mean it's a games console. At least with Valve you know the primary intention is gaming.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
You should tell Zucker that then because he doesn't and he thinks the Future is Horizon worlds, and most recent updates have little to do with gaming as well.

Just because Quest 2 plays games doesn't mean it's a games console. At least with Valve you know the primary intention is gaming.

The bolded just shows how much Zucker is screwing up the MetaQuest and everything it can be. It 100% is a gaming console. Microsoft kinda went in this direction with the Xbox One and TV TV TV. Gamers helped reel them back in though. But I still don't think MS has fully recovered since then.

The difference is MS has alot better leadership that knows what it's doing. Now it just comes to execution. Zucker doesn't have a clue what he's doing with the Meta Quest line.
 
Microsoft kinda went in this direction with the Xbox One and TV TV TV.

Didn't happen, they simply moved the games to E3 and that's what they actually said.

Microsoft wasn't changing direction in Xbox One being a game console outside adding more features and DRM that was rolled back before launch.

Zucker however from the start never had any vision of Quest as a game machine, in fact, Zucker never took that seriously outside of expanding the Quest software library.

He has acquired several gaming related studios, and he has yet to release ONE new game from ANY of them. I assume this is either because of wanting to launch with some of them for the Quest 3, and the rest probably working on more Horizon World tier projects.

The bolded just shows how much Zucker is screwing up the MetaQuest and everything it can be.

Is he? Yes for his vision maybe but i don't know if I would extent that to the Quest itself.

Software is generally bad, Beat Saber sold 4M in 2021, it's clearly sold more than that since but when you have ~18 Quest 2's out there, even if we double that number, no other VR software comes close (outside of Gorilla VR Tag with 5 million "players") so what are those ~18 million Quest 2's selling on?

If it was a game console the answer would be games, but the software situation doesn't really back that up to well. The cheap price and the experience across the board (no matter how badly executed) was probably where the sales come from. Users getting the headset cheap, trying out audio, trying out movies, trying out social, experience apps, maybe even some productivity which Zucker has also pushed, gaming, and other.

This would explain outside those who might be interested in one area for the time, the headset has a low retention rate of average 6 months, some may be even less. That's assuming Zucker isn't fudging the numbers.

That's not the retention of a game console.

Although it does look like Among Us VR is doing exceptionally well right now and it'll be interesting to see what it does in the long term. That would only be maybe the 3rd decent selling game, on a product with almost 20 million in sales.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Didn't happen, they simply moved the games to E3 and that's what they actually said.

Microsoft wasn't changing direction in Xbox One being a game console outside adding more features and DRM that was rolled back before launch.

Zucker however from the start never had any vision of Quest as a game machine, in fact, Zucker never took that seriously outside of expanding the Quest software library.

He has acquired several gaming related studios, and he has yet to release ONE new game from ANY of them. I assume this is either because of wanting to launch with some of them for the Quest 3, and the rest probably working on more Horizon World tier projects.



Is he? Yes for his vision maybe but i don't know if I would extent that to the Quest itself.

Software is generally bad, Beat Saber sold 4M in 2021, it's clearly sold more than that since but when you have ~18 Quest 2's out there, even if we double that number, no other VR software comes close (outside of Gorilla VR Tag with 5 million "players") so what are those ~18 million Quest 2's selling on?

If it was a game console the answer would be games, but the software situation doesn't really back that up to well. The cheap price and the experience across the board (no matter how badly executed) was probably where the sales come from. Users getting the headset cheap, trying out audio, trying out movies, trying out social, experience apps, maybe even some productivity which Zucker has also pushed, gaming, and other.

This would explain outside those who might be interested in one area for the time, the headset has a low retention rate of average 6 months, some may be even less. That's assuming Zucker isn't fudging the numbers.

That's not the retention of a game console.

Although it does look like Among Us VR is doing exceptionally well right now and it'll be interesting to see what it does in the long term. That would only be maybe the 3rd decent selling game, on a product with almost 20 million in sales.
To me, it doesn't even matter if Quest has 1M users, 10M users or 50M users. When Meta stated half of their users quit using VR after 6 months just last year in an October 2022 article, you know the content is bad. No gamer is buying a VR set for $500 or whatever the various Quest models cost expecting to bail ship after half a year. If its good it should be used for years until the next upgrade. No different than console upgrades, or a PC gamer upgrading parts. The hardware changes, but the gaming continues. Even the worst gaming gadget out there (maybe Virtual boy at 800k users) probably had users dicking around with it for more than half a year.

So when you got a bunch of money spent on the headset (which you'd think they'd support due to just getting their moneys worth), tons of games available, dirt cheap game prices (it's not like VR games are $70 US), probably tons of free demos to live off, and VR is supposed to be some grandiose gaming experience that is so much more immersive than standard gamepad or m/kb gaming staring at a TV or monitor, yet half the gamers are bailing, it proves the games and whatever experience they have shooting or grabbing stuff in VR worlds are crap.

If it was so good, nobody would be bailing after half a year and they'd have endless backlogs of $20 games they loaded up.
 
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sloppyjoe_gamer

Gold Member
Suckyberg has no clue what he's doing with the gaming aspect and should stick to what he is best at......having an army of bluehairs "moderating" his left wing social media platform.
 

Keihart

Member
big difference between a Quest 2 and a Playstation 5 even with VR is that, well, you probably wont use the PS5 to watch porn if it ever gets support. The quest 2 on the other hand....
VR porn seems to be a big thing, there are 2 sites that i know off that operate with Netflix like business models and they havents stopped getting more and more videos, they update daily, some producers post videos 2 times a weeks.
I mean, if people bought the PS2 for dvd playback for a time, this is not that far off.

Edit: Also, lets consider that i dont think most people with a VR capable PC are playing using the Oculus store, i bet most people just use steam, games like VRchat have a stupid high population of active players on steam, sitting at around 15K active players at any moment of the day and peaks of 25k, which i assume its a mix of 2D, other headsets and Quest2 players.
 
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Keihart

Member
They've bought 9 studios since late 2019. FTC even tried to stop some acquisitions but it failed.

They own
  • Beat games : Beat Saber, might have heard of it
  • Sanzaru Games : Asgard's Wrath
  • Ready at Dawn : Lone Echo 1 & 2
  • Downpour Interactive : Onward
  • BigBox : Population : one
  • Within : Supernatural (fitness)
  • Twisted Pixel games : Wilson's heart, Defector, Path of the Warrior
  • Armature Studio : RE 4 VR
  • Camouflaj : Iron Man VR
Asgard's Wrath and Lone echo being absolutely must plays full fledge games.

Asgard's Wrath was pretty much seen as VR's most ambitious game when it released in 2019








i had no idea of these accquisitions, some of those are literally indie devs that made the biggest hits on VR, interesting.
 
To me, it doesn't even matter if Quest has 1M users, 10M users or 50M users. When Meta stated half of their users quit using VR after 6 months, you know the content is bad. No gamer is buying a VR set for $500 or whatever the various Quest models cost expecting to bail ship after half a year. If its good it should be used for years until the next upgrade. No different than console upgrades, or a PC gamer upgrading parts. The hardware changes, but the gaming continues. Even the worst gaming gadget out there (maybe Virtual boy at 800k users) probably had users dicking around with it for more than half a year.

So when you got a bunch of money spent on the headset (which you'd think they'd support due to just getting their moneys worth), tons of games available, dirt cheap game prices (it's not like VR games are $70 US), probably tons of free demos to live off, and VR is supposed to be some grandiose gaming experience that is so much more immersive than standard gamepad or m/kb gaming staring at a TV or monitor, yet half the gamers are bailing, it proves the games and whatever experience they have shooting or grabbing stuff in VR worlds are crap.

If it was so good, nobody would be bailing after half a year and they'd have endless backlogs of $20 games they loaded up.

This is why Zucker from the start pushed the social angle and conceptualized productivity implementation from the start.

In his concept pitch video around the time of the name change, Zucker talked about how gaming would be a key part of the meta verse, and said maybe you want to play chess with someone in the park without a physical chessboard, talking about mixed reality AR in real life. Or Horizon Worlds having some gaming elements on it, or Population one being the closest to gaming that people here on this site view when they hear the term.

People are playing games, watching movies, using various apps in other categories, and then putting their headsets in the closet. People weren't doing that for the Gamecube and Wii U, they at least played some games for a year or 2 even if they would prefer to game elsewhere, before giving it to Gamestop for $2 so they could flip it and resell it used at $400. Or put it in storage.

I wouldn't be surprised in some cases people brought the Quest 2 from stores with 30-90day returns and returned it in the refund period because they basically already tried everything they wanted.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
This is why Zucker from the start pushed the social angle and conceptualized productivity implementation from the start.

In his concept pitch video around the time of the name change, Zucker talked about how gaming would be a key part of the meta verse, and said maybe you want to play chess with someone in the park without a physical chessboard, talking about mixed reality AR in real life. Or Horizon Worlds having some gaming elements on it, or Population one being the closest to gaming that people here on this site view when they hear the term.

People are playing games, watching movies, using various apps in other categories, and then putting their headsets in the closet. People weren't doing that for the Gamecube and Wii U, they at least played some games for a year or 2 even if they would prefer to game elsewhere, before giving it to Gamestop for $2 so they could flip it and resell it used at $400. Or put it in storage.

I wouldn't be surprised in some cases people brought the Quest 2 from stores with 30-90day returns and returned it in the refund period because they basically already tried everything they wanted.
I can understand that long run Zuck has to do something because FB and Instagram wont last forever. Although who the hell knew (excluding VR Labs) Meta makes about $30B profit/yr. Squeezed down to $20B after the giant losses VR does to them.

I find it amazing that instead of trying to find the next social media craze like something as simple as Tik Tok, he went ape shit assuming people will buy VR headsets for $500 and putting them on their head for hours and hours doing social media. At least with traditional social media and gaming, you can do it from many devices, social media is free, and anyone can surf from anywhere without needing goggles strapped to their head.

Zucks got too much money. And like a lot of people or companies, once you get giant the next steps are bigger and more costly assuming everyone will bite.
 
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I can understand that long run Zuck has to do something because FB and Instagram wont last forever.

He could start with actually supporting Facebook instead of making it a clunky draconian DRM censorship app/site.

But his vision was never consistent. He probably remembered some old book or movie he experienced and figures yeah, that's what VR is, and renamed the company to capitalize on what HE expected to be thing blowing up everywhere, 100 million users in Horizon worlds, tens of millions in gaming and movie apps, millions of professionals using it for meetings or productivity.

He literally stood in front of a screen that said 1 billion VR devices back in 2017! He clearly believed he was ahead of the game and VR would take off 100% and I bet you he STILL believes that despite the current state.

He literally pushed Horizon Worlds to be the start of a new internet with the world interacting on it. He expected that to happen when it launched fast, back then when it was in a poor state Heck, HW is still in a dire state now, though I heard they are finally adding legs soon. He spend too much on it, he's not going to cancel or replace it.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
He could start with actually supporting Facebook instead of making it a clunky draconian DRM censorship app/site.

But his vision was never consistent. He probably remembered some old book or movie he experienced and figures yeah, that's what VR is, and renamed the company to capitalize on what HE expected to be thing blowing up everywhere, 100 million users in Horizon worlds, tens of millions in gaming and movie apps, millions of professionals using it for meetings or productivity.

He literally stood in front of a screen that said 1 billion VR devices back in 2017! He clearly believed he was ahead of the game and VR would take off 100% and I bet you he STILL believes that despite the current state.

He literally pushed Horizon Worlds to be the start of a new internet with the world interacting on it. He expected that to happen when it launched fast, back then when it was in a poor state Heck, HW is still in a dire state now, though I heard they are finally adding legs soon. He spend too much on it, he's not going to cancel or replace it.
The thing about VR is that it requires someone to pay up a gadget price (strike 1), sit there with a helmet on their head (strike 2), and all this VR immersion stuff takes longer time to do (strike 3). The world is getting faster and ADD. Thats why Tik Tok probably took off. People get their jollies in 10 second or 1 minute clips.

It's like this example. News.

1. Old days of grabbing a paper from the paper delivery boy and reading the crunchy newsprint in your hands

2. The modern day internet where you skim pages and links fast on a cell phone or PC

3. Put on VR goggles and pretend to hold a newspaper like #1 and flip pages and sections like the old days

I'm pretty sure most people arent going to give a shit about #3, even though it's technically more immersive than #2. Same with VR chat. Some people might do it. But most people would rather skip the theatrics and just chat with random people on Twitter or phone/text friends and fam. There is no way I see myself or anyone I know buying a headset and saying to each other.... "Hey, lets all put our VR goggles on and meet up in a VR room to hang out"
 
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Keihart

Member
The thing about VR is that it requires someone to pay up a gadget price (strike 1), sit there with a helmet on their head (strike 2), and all this VR immersion stuff takes longer time to do (strike 3). The world is getting faster and ADD. Thats why Tik Tok probably took off. People get their jollies in 10 second or 1 minute clips.

It's like this example. News.

1. Old days of grabbing a paper from the paper delivery boy and reading the crunchy newsprint in your hands

2. The modern day internet where you skim pages and links fast on a cell phone or PC

3. Put on VR goggles and pretend to hold a newspaper like #1 and flip pages and sections like the old days

I'm pretty sure most people arent going to give a shit about #3, even though it's technically more immersive than #2. Same with VR chat. Some people might do it. But most people would rather skip the theatrics and just chat with random people on Twitter or phone/text friends and fam. There is no way I see myself or anyone I know buying a headset and saying to each other.... "Hey, lets all put our VR goggles on and meet up in a VR room to hang out"
by the amount of kids playing multiplayer games on VR, you got another thing coming if you think VR is never taking off.
 

Techies

Member
by the amount of kids playing multiplayer games on VR, you got another thing coming if you think VR is never taking off.
Kids have indeed taken over most of the multiplayer titles. It seems those unused Quest2's soon find use again when they are passed down.
 
by the amount of kids playing multiplayer games on VR, you got another thing coming if you think VR is never taking off.

VR itself isn't in ample amounts the software more so, so what amount are you referring too? Nowhere near Roblox and whatever kids are playing today outside of VR surely.

The thing about VR is that it requires someone to pay up a gadget price (strike 1), sit there with a helmet on their head (strike 2), and all this VR immersion stuff takes longer time to do (strike 3). The world is getting faster and ADD. Thats why Tik Tok probably took off. People get their jollies in 10 second or 1 minute clips.

It's like this example. News.

1. Old days of grabbing a paper from the paper delivery boy and reading the crunchy newsprint in your hands

2. The modern day internet where you skim pages and links fast on a cell phone or PC

3. Put on VR goggles and pretend to hold a newspaper like #1 and flip pages and sections like the old days

I'm pretty sure most people arent going to give a shit about #3, even though it's technically more immersive than #2. Same with VR chat. Some people might do it. But most people would rather skip the theatrics and just chat with random people on Twitter or phone/text friends and fam. There is no way I see myself or anyone I know buying a headset and saying to each other.... "Hey, lets all put our VR goggles on and meet up in a VR room to hang out"

Yes, just like the having a theatrical experience reading your Emails and having an in-air keyboard, along with being able to have an extra 4-5 steps for communication or chat.

It's like what we saw in early depictions of "the future" involving some form of VR in old games or movies. The idea is cool, and may be presented in a way that seems appealing, until you realize everything is being dragged out for the experience.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Didn't happen, they simply moved the games to E3 and that's what they actually said.

Microsoft wasn't changing direction in Xbox One being a game console outside adding more features and DRM that was rolled back before launch.

Zucker however from the start never had any vision of Quest as a game machine, in fact, Zucker never took that seriously outside of expanding the Quest software library.

He has acquired several gaming related studios, and he has yet to release ONE new game from ANY of them. I assume this is either because of wanting to launch with some of them for the Quest 3, and the rest probably working on more Horizon World tier projects.



Is he? Yes for his vision maybe but i don't know if I would extent that to the Quest itself.

Software is generally bad, Beat Saber sold 4M in 2021, it's clearly sold more than that since but when you have ~18 Quest 2's out there, even if we double that number, no other VR software comes close (outside of Gorilla VR Tag with 5 million "players") so what are those ~18 million Quest 2's selling on?

If it was a game console the answer would be games, but the software situation doesn't really back that up to well. The cheap price and the experience across the board (no matter how badly executed) was probably where the sales come from. Users getting the headset cheap, trying out audio, trying out movies, trying out social, experience apps, maybe even some productivity which Zucker has also pushed, gaming, and other.

This would explain outside those who might be interested in one area for the time, the headset has a low retention rate of average 6 months, some may be even less. That's assuming Zucker isn't fudging the numbers.

That's not the retention of a game console.

Although it does look like Among Us VR is doing exceptionally well right now and it'll be interesting to see what it does in the long term. That would only be maybe the 3rd decent selling game, on a product with almost 20 million in sales.

MS was 100% ready to move in a different direction that fit MS better with Xbox during the beginning of the Xbox One era. It didn't work because gamers hated it. So they were smart and went back more traditional. Zucker is too stupid to understand that and doesn't seem to get how using games to get to his true agenda can work. He can't pull it off.

MS did it the right way. Their "REAL" money comes from Microsoft Office products and Azure. Xbox is being used probably within the Azure framework to make them more money. But MS didn't do that until Azure 100% worked well first. But they were and are still making games with the Xbox brand.

Zucker jumped out of the game making stuff too fast and doesn't have the "other stuff" working yet at all. He doesn't know what he's doing.
 
MS was 100% ready to move in a different direction that fit MS better with Xbox during the beginning of the Xbox One era. It didn't work because gamers hated it.

Nothing change about their direction other than reversing DRM. You are imagining a direction they were not taken. We still got the TV compatibility, we still got Kinect language conversion causing Xbox to only release in 13 countries, we still got Smart Glass, we still got everything except Kinect required to be on, 24 hour check-in, and the other DRM policies, including the authorized used game retailer stuff.

You are completely misremembering here,

https://www.wired.com/2013/06/xbox-...lar online check-ins or,games on the Xbox One.
XBOX ONE WILL not require regular online check-ins or place restrictions on game-lending "as a result of feedback from the Xbox community," Microsoft announced today.

The announcement is a complete reversal of the company's previously announced DRM policy for games on the Xbox One.

"After a one-time system set-up with a new Xbox One," Xbox executive Don Mattrick wrote in a blog post, "you can play any disc based game without ever connecting online again. There is no 24 hour connection requirement and you can take your Xbox One anywhere you want and play your games, just like on Xbox 360." Mattrick added that Xbox One would be region-free; any Xbox One disc would function in any Xbox One console.


Additionally, Mattrick wrote, players will be able to "trade-in, lend, resell, gift, and rent disc based games just like you do today. There will be no limitations to using and sharing games, it will work just as it does today on Xbox 360."

This will come at a small cost -- despite previous announcements, Xbox One will require that discs remain in the tray in order to play games, and players will be unable to share downloaded games. In other words, it'll work exactly like the Xbox 360 -- for better and for worse.

Absolutely nothing else was different. You still had everything at the core of their road map in places as was revealed(leaked) and somewhat vaguely hinted at in previous public interviews and elsewhere. They didn't cancel one thing. So if you view the Xbox as a game console at launch, then it was a game console before launch and always going in that direction outside of DRM, some of which those policies are now currently accepted.

Zucker is too stupid to understand that and doesn't seem to get how using games to get to his true agenda can work. He can't pull it off.

Zucker jumped out of the game making stuff too fast and doesn't have the "other stuff" working yet at all. He doesn't know what he's doing.

Zucker was NEVER in the game making stuff, he NEVER understood what gaming is, here was his pitch when he changed the company regarding gaming,



Zucker never had any vision of his VR stuff being about games, Oculus before the buyout was already in it and then FB changed the direction and failed multiple times to leave. Quest was launched on promises from Quest 1 (and really late rift before that) to Quest 2, that had nothing to do with gaming, trying to convince the consumer to jump in for things that were not gaming related.

Horizon Worlds itself is technically a game, or rather a social hub with some game elements in it, but he hasn't really pushed any real games outside of Beat Saber which he brought the company, and only because he saw the headset moving potential as well as sales potential.

He made a bunch of game acquisitions and he has not put out ONE single major game in the 2-4 years since those buyouts from those companies that didn't already exist before he brought them out.
 

Drew1440

Member
Exactly what models of the Xbox one featured a coax line-in so it could be used as a cable box? Sounds like it could have shifted some units getting rented out by the cable co's. Model I had just had an hdmi-in, a lot less interesting. :messenger_beaming:
This would have been a waste of time since many cable companies are moving to SDV (Switched Digital Video) to deliver their channels which requires a return path. Plus the guide data varies with each cable operator with some still using the Prevue/Motorola guide or Scientific Atlanta SARA) Microsoft tried this back in the 2000s with Windows Media Center and UltimateTV and failed.
Also, the FFC has recently scrapped the CableCard requirement which is needed to descramble the channels themselves. Many have already dropped support for third-party DVR's like Tivo. This also locks out using TV to descramble the signals, requiring a set-top box to be used.
 
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