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[Wazzim]

I'm on a beach in Hawaii reading Neogaf. TECHNOLOGY

Random brag post.

 

[paskowitz]

I looked in my magic ball and this is what I saw:

- No BC for disc based PS3 games but a good number (~60%) will filter onto the PSN
- Anti used games o'matic will require games to be activated over the internet. Locked to a single PSN but not a single console.
- If a constant internet connection is required their will be mass riots
- Multiple PSN signs in will be possible on one console
- NextBox and PS# will have roughly similar HW specs (seriously why do people think they will be worlds apart? Sony is not making that mistake again, and MS is not going to try to outspend them)
- It will still make blu rays
- Big hard drive
- A relatively normal control that splits apart + Kinect-esk PSEYE
- If there is a touch screen it will be like the rear touch of the Vita slapped onto the back of the DS4

 

[Nilaul]

If it happens at all both Sony and MS will be doing it.

Then Nintendo could just go viral marketing against the other two. Either way sooner or later this horrible feature would be noticed by the general public.

 

[Wandering Leopard]

Sorry I'm late to the thread, but my most concerning question is: will I need to get three jobs to buy a PS4?

I doubt it, I'm sure the birth of the PS3 still hurts Sony to this day and will continue to hurt for some time. I think they've learnt.

 

[Durante]

I looked in my magic ball and this is what I saw:

What does your magic ball say about region locking?

 

[McHuj]

Then enlighten me as to why the whole computing industry moved to 64 bit processing hardware and software.

Address space. The physical address space of a 32-bit machine is limited to 4GB, going to 64-bit addressing increases that significantly and increases the hardware complexity.

Chances are a console CPU will only be processing 16/32 bit data types as well. No need for native 64-bit double precision types, so you can save that hardware.

Since the next gen of consoles will have less than (or equal to) 4GB's and gaming processing is very likely to be done on 32-bit floats or ints, there's no need to waste transistors on native support for that.

 

[Nilaul]

I looked in my magic ball and this is what I saw:

- No BC for disc based PS3 games but a good number (~60%) will filter onto the PSN
- Anti used games o'matic will require games to be activated over the internet. Locked to a single PSN but not a single console.
- If a constant internet connection is required their will be mass riots
- Multiple PSN signs in will be possible on one console
- NextBox and PS# will have roughly similar HW specs (seriously why do people think they will be worlds apart? Sony is not making that mistake again, and MS is not going to try to outspend them)
- It will still make blu rays
- Big hard drive
- A relatively normal control that splits apart + Kinect-esk PSEYE
- If there is a touch screen it will be like the rear touch of the Vita slapped onto the back of the DS4

Or you can drop out the hard drive. Im sure consumers would prefer to buy there own unofficial sony usb hardrives and get the console cheaper.

 

[Globox_82]

Any idea how much ram this thing is going to have.

What do you guys think of rumored spec? Impressive or not?

 

[iceatcs]

Then Nintendo could just go viral marketing against the other two. Either way sooner or later this horrible feature would be noticed by the general public.

Then 3rd party developers bailout from WiiU.

 

[Jburton]

If all this anti used games nonsense turns out to be true, I'm going PC only. Most used games I pick up are on Gamefly for way less than what Gamestop or any used retailer offers them. So I'd probably just pick up a lot of stuff on sale from Steam.

PC Only!

PC market has been anti used for years, enter in the serial key and the game is useless on the used market.

This is what is going to happen.

Gamers all weep when studios close, well buying used and not new hurts developers as much as not buying the game at all.


Anywho, I am liking the sound of the PC based architecture ...... the SI based GPU is the most powerful rumoured chip yet.

 

[Neuromancer]

I'm on a beach in Hawaii reading Neogaf. TECHNOLOGY

If you go swimming make sure a jellyfish doesn't get wrapped around your dingus

 

[Nilaul]

Sorry I'm late to the thread, but my most concerning question is: will I need to get three jobs to buy a PS4?

No three jobs; this time you'll need to rob a bank. xD

 

[Nilaul]

Then 3rd party developers bailout from WiiU.

Really? I think nintendo is just fine selling Mario's Sooner or later the news of feature will hit the general public even if Nintendo stays put. Word of speech, then random newspapers articles, and magazine articles mentioning that feature.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Then Nintendo could just go viral marketing against the other two. Either way sooner or later this horrible feature would be noticed by the general public.

Unlikely. This feature is something the publishers want. If Sony and Microsoft implement such a feature, and Nintendo not, publishers won't support the Wii U.

Edit: too slow ^^

 

[Eusis]

If it's because of third parties then combine this with how much party they want out of the next consoles, and to me it sounds like what they REALLY want to do is develop PC games without the piracy stigma. Frankly, they really should just fucking do that if it's going to result in inane bullshit like this.

 

[Alex]

PC Only!

PC market has been anti used for years, enter in the serial key and the game is useless on the used market.

This is what is going to happen.

Gamers all weep when studios close, well buying used and not new hurts developers as much as not buying the game at all.


Anywho, I am liking the sound of the PC based architecture ...... the SI based GPU is the most powerful rumoured chip yet.

PC has a mature and open DD market that is properly curated. it compensates for the lack of resales in many a way, if not moreso.

We will need to see where this goes, but if it's just a straight up disable of resale of discs with no other boons or adjustments then the fallout should be amusing. I know I'd withdrawal all support from that for certain and I don't even buy used that often.

 

[iceatcs]

Really? I think nintendo is just fine selling Mario's Sooner or later the news of feature will hit the general public even if Nintendo stays put. Word of speech, then random newspapers articles, and magazine articles mentioning that feature.

Oh trust me. I'm very positive if there is only one system can do used games. Developers with no publisher control won't bother do it, no matter how much it sell. (Sort example to Wii vs PS3/360 with different power limitation problem, rare multi-platform for all 3 systems even Wii sale more than 360/PS3 combine)

 

[Jburton]

Unlikely. This feature is something the publishers want. If Sony and Microsoft implement such a feature, and Nintendo not, publishers won't support the Wii U.

Bingo, the games industry want the used market tackled.

Nintendo have very little sway with third parties, especially in the home console space.

 

[Mithos]

PC market has been anti used for years, enter in the serial key and the game is useless on the used market.

That's why you don't enter more then 1 game per account, moahahahaha.

 

[Mr Swine]

I hope your right. I'm going to go with the more powerful PC however much I love ps3 this gen.

fixed for you

I think it doesn't matter anymore what kind of CPU the consoles are using since GPU's are pretty much taking over more and more stuff from CPU

 

[Jacksonlee]

,.....sad, yet confused.


what am i going to do with my dying ps3 and bunch of games

 

[Averon]

Do you think they will launch the vita without a memory card?

Touche. However, I just can't imagine Sony limiting PSN by the PS4 not having a hard drive. They'll be giving up market share to XBL. I do believe there will be proprietary hard drives and a hard driveless SKU. Regardless of the Vita, find it hard to imagine the main PS4 SKU not having a hard drive.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Bingo, the games industry want the used market tackled.

Nintendo have very little sway with third parties, especially in the home console space.

What if Nintendo gets consumers on their side? A console with a weak used game market is going to be a hard sell in Japan especially, and Nintendo is basically launching DQX. Can MS and Sony afford to alienate an entire market?

Also, given the recent 7xxx rumors for both the PS4 and 720, is the 2GB 7850 the most realistic card we can hope for given cost and wattage?

 

[Jburton]

PC has a mature and open DD market that is properly curated. it compensates for the lack of resales in many a way, if not moreso.

We will need to see where this goes, but if it's just a straight up disable of resale of discs with no other boons or adjustments then the fallout should be amusing. I know I'd withdrawal all support from that for certain and I don't even buy used that often.

In what way is the PC market curated?

By whom?

In what way are gamers compensated for the lack of resale when it comes to physical purchases?

Open market? .... no way, Steam owns that market (I like Steam) it is in no way an open or healthy market in terms of competition.

 

[Eusis]

I actually would be fascinated if those publishers successfully destroy themselves over wanting to kill used gaming. It'd be amazing.

 

[Nilaul]

Unlikely. This feature is something the publishers want. If Sony and Microsoft implement such a feature, and Nintendo not, publishers won't support the Wii U.

Edit: too slow ^^

Oh well, If thats the senario I might have to stick to PC. Atleast even if they have some annoying DRM there always easily cracked.

 

[Alex]

In what way is the PC market curated?

By whom?

In what way are gamers compensated for the lack of resale when it comes to physical purchases?

Open market? .... no way, Steam owns that market (I like Steam) it is in no way an open or healthy market in terms of competition.

Curated by dd platforms, publishers, etc, there's tons of shit going on sale every week whereas sales on consoles are rare, random and almost always mediocre.

The market is open, I buy off of steam, origin, amazon, gog, and others. Steam is the corner stone but I'm not locked to steam like I am to PSN although that wouldn't be so bad if Sony or Microsoft actually gave a fuck about the services like Valve does.

 

[Massa]

In what way is the PC market curated?

By whom?

In what way are gamers compensated for the lack of resale when it comes to physical purchases?

Open market? .... no way, Steam owns that market (I like Steam) it is in no way an open or healthy market in terms of competition.

On PC, game prices vary from $60 at release to $2.5 or even less. The publisher/developer makes money while reaching to every possible audience interested in the game, whether it's the super hard core fan that wants it day 1 or the very casual buyer that will buy it if it's cheap enough.

The console market is not working like that. Retailers are taking the most money with the sales of used games while publishers are only profiting from day 1 sales to the very small and hardcore audience. In most cases anyway.

It's already had a very negative impact on the kinds of games that get made anymore, but people seem to ignore that.

 

[Jburton]

What if Nintendo gets consumers on their side? A console with a weak used game market is going to be a hard sell in Japan especially, and Nintendo is basically launching DQX. Can MS and Sony afford to alienate an entire market?

Also, given the recent 7xxx rumors for both the PS4 and 720, is the 2GB 7850 the most realistic card we can hope for given cost and wattage?

In terms of the HD home console market, Japan does not matter and has not mattered for quite sometime.

Nintendo already owns Japan, but as a territory its home console market seems to have shrunk over the past generation.

US, UK, Europe are the main territories for the home console space, it has been where the biggest developers of the past generation have been based.

Publishers want the used market gone and they will get behind MS and Sony if they add measures to counter it, big time.

The concerns of the Japanese market wont mean shit to them, its not like EA, Activision etc make meaningful sales in that market anyway.

 

[Wandering Leopard]

Then Nintendo could just go viral marketing against the other two. Either way sooner or later this horrible feature would be noticed by the general public.

I think you slightly overestimate the importance of BC.
Sony launched the PS3 after arguably the best console to date; the PS2. And the lack of BC was the least of its many and well known problems. I understand the market is different now with Sony not being able to offer what their competitors can but like always, in the long term at least, next gen will be decided with a reasonable launch price and compelling titles throughout the consoles life.

 

[paskowitz]

What does your magic ball say about region locking?

The future is unclear.

 

[iceatcs]

I think you slightly overestimate the importance of BC.
Sony launched the PS3 after arguably the best console to date; the PS2. And the lack of BC was the last of it's many and well known problems. I understand the market is different now with Sony not being able to offer what their competitors can but like always, in the long term at least, next gen will be decided with a reasonable launch price and compelling titles throughout the consoles life.

The quote was talking about anti-used games, not BC. Nintendo might be only one allow used game in next gen.

That's why I said no way cos can you imagine what publisher or developer will feel when there is TV campaign from Nintendo showing you can sell and buy old game .

 

[sp3000]

It's obvious that the PS3 will not have bc, simply because the exotic Cell CPU is next to impossible to emulate with AMD hardware. Sony probably is regretting choosing Cell for the PS3 about now.

Used games are almost surely eliminated on both systems. There is huge amounts of pressure from the major developers and publishers to have them eliminated. Anyone who has friends in the industry or works in it will know why this is the case. I would say that developers would rather see used games eliminated over any hardware increase. For them, it's perceived as the single biggest threat to their jobs and publishers see it as profit lost.

I actually would be fascinated if those publishers successfully destroy themselves over wanting to kill used gaming. It'd be amazing.

Keep deluding yourself with that fantasy. If anything, their profit margins would increase. The majority of profit from games is made at launch from new game sales.

 

[Jburton]

On PC, game prices vary from $60 at release to $2.5 or even less. The publisher/developer makes money while reaching to every possible audience interested in the game, whether it's the super hard core fan that wants it day 1 or the very casual buyer that will buy it if it's cheap enough.

The console market is not working like that. Retailers are taking the most money with the sales of used games while publishers are only profiting from day 1 sales to the very small and hardcore audience. In most cases anyway.

It's already had a very negative impact on the kinds of games that get made anymore, but people seem to ignore that.

So tackling the used market would benefit console publishers, they have to keep inital prices high because they will be undercut by the used market when it comes to a price reduction further down the line so they need to make all the money upfront.

No used market means that when console publishers reduce prices later after launch they wont be competing with the used market, they will make money at all stages, launch to reduced price later down the line.

PC publishers make money right down the timeline from high launch price to sale price because they are not competing with used game market that provides zero revenue for the publisher.

 

[StevieP]

Nah, I'll buy a Wii U. There is no way in hell that Nintendo would be crazy enough to pull this shit.

Well, Nintendo's console has NFC built in. What do you think NFC tags do? They scan into a system with a reader that has a unique identifier. Don't look at Nintendo as your savior here.

This rumour is total bullshit imho.

If Sony were really into sticking PC-innards into a box and calling it the "next" Playstation, they'd be launching it THIS year.

There is nothing to be gained from going x86 when PPC remains the standard for its competitors/port-mates; There's no need for that sort of general purpose CPU architecture in a games/multimedia machine, and as for abandoning BC... again, if this was the case they'd be pushing it out the door sooner so as not to be wasting resources propping up a service with minimal contribution to the value-proposition of their flasghip device.

This rumour is based entirely on what's in the dev kits.

Good luck on getting decent-looking games at 4k resolution. 2560x1600 is considered high end in the PC market of gaming, and that is pretty costly in terms of GPU power. 4k? On a Southern Islands GPU?

The console will support 4K output. Doesn't mean games will be rendered at 4k (the power simply isn't there for that in any modern GPUs)

I think it could pull off a few games at 4k with some modifications and a MLAA derivative over MSAA. AA and highrez textures at that rez are what really kills performance. I think a solid 7970 can handle 4k games pretty good with MLAA though I might be off base. You definitely have to sacrifice quality somewhere though.

A 7970 isn't going into a console, sorry. You'll be fortunate to get something with as much grunt as a 7850. It's likely just a bit below that.

The Pastebin post and Kotaku article conflict each other. You don't go southern islands for the GPU and target 4K resolution if your system is going to be underpowered. So someone is wrong.

As I mentioned, 4K is a supported resolution, not a target. Even the Wii U GPU can do resolutions over 2K, but there's no way in hell you'll see any 2K Wii U games.

4096x2160.. sigh...

Just give me rock-solid 1080p/60fps.

720p is still going to be a common resolution next gen. "Sub1080p" will become the new SubHD, and 1080p/60 games will be few and far between for any of the types of games that GAF plays at least.

No BC is pretty lame. How much is it to ask for companies to stick with just one architecture? Seems they switch between them every chance they get, making BC difficult or impossible.

If they go x86, then BC will never be a problem again. Win-win for the future.

The rumour is spot on.

Kotaku's next gen sources are very good, yes.

I can't believe everyone in this thread just glanced over this and continued to be pissed off at the inevitable game-locking system all future consoles will have. Here, brain_stew is revealing the exact architecture of the PS4 CPU, and nobody picked up on it? For shame, GAF.

 

[Globox_82]

IS there some way to look into pastebin post if it was edited?

Do you guys remember Gamesblow and how he did it on his crappy site vgtilt? Stealth edit about Uncharted 2.

This pastebin guy sounds like him tbh

 

[Digital-Hero]

It's obvious that the PS3 will not have bc, simply because the exotic Cell CPU is next to impossible to emulate with AMD hardware. Sony probably is regretting choosing Cell for the PS3 about now.

Yup, I called that a few months back. Unless PS4 contains the Cell+RSX combo, it won't happen. Imagine the costs if it did. $499-599 PS4 anyone?

 

[alr1ght]

Used games are almost surely eliminated on both systems.[/B] There is huge amounts of pressure from the major developers and publishers to have them eliminated. Anyone who has friends in the industry or works in it will know why this is the case. I would say that developers would rather see used games eliminated over any hardware increase. For them, it's perceived as the single biggest threat to their jobs and publishers see it as profit lost.

And I will say they can't see the forest for the trees. It's like equating a pirated copy to a lost sale.

 

[Theonik]

Orbis eh?

This whole anti-used BS might end up driving me to stick with WiiU next gen if true, though Sony's proposed implementation doesn't sound too bad, Stream like.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

summary
-no BC with Ps3
- http://orbis.scedev.net/ exists
-AMD 2012 GPU with up to 4k resolution for games. AMD Southern Islands GPU http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Islands_(GPU_family)
-AMD x64 CPU
- anti used game system like PC games with always online DRM.

"If you buy the disc, it must be locked to a single PSN account, after which you can play the game, save the whole thing to your HDD, or peg it as "downloaded" in your account history and be free to download it at a later date."
"it's believed used games will be limited to a trial mode or some other form of content restriction, with consumers having to pay a fee to unlock/register the full game."

I actually like this, reminds me of what I do on my PC, and I love pc gaming because I don't need the disks.

 

[Jacksonlee]

well, BC is a loss, but after reflection , hey, i'm okay with this. let's see how the industry goes from here, with no used games .

 

[Pistolero]

Kotaku's next gen sources are very good, yes.

Hum, although I expect Microsoft to launch a slightly beefier system -bigger budget-, I find it hard to believe that the difference would be that significant...but who knows...

 

[saunderez]

If all this anti-used games stuff is true I'm going back to PC gaming and I don't even buy used games or trade in my own games. If they're going to remove my right to resell I no longer see the point in paying the price premium for console games. Whoever doesn't do this shit is going to get my money.

 

[Plinko]

It's obvious that the PS3 will not have bc, simply because the exotic Cell CPU is next to impossible to emulate with AMD hardware. Sony probably is regretting choosing Cell for the PS3 about now.

Used games are almost surely eliminated on both systems. There is huge amounts of pressure from the major developers and publishers to have them eliminated. Anyone who has friends in the industry or works in it will know why this is the case. I would say that developers would rather see used games eliminated over any hardware increase. For them, it's perceived as the single biggest threat to their jobs and publishers see it as profit lost.





Keep deluding yourself with that fantasy. If anything, their profit margins would increase. The majority of profit from games is made at launch from new game sales.

Tell your friends in the industry to start making some games that are fun and worth $60.

Until that point, they need to stop crying. Businesses succed when they adapt to the consumer's needs.

 

[Plinko]

Hum, although I expect Microsoft to launch a slightly beefier system -bigger budget-, I find it hard to believe that the difference would be that significant...but who knows...

If these rumors are true, the gap between next gen's systems will be much less, no? I'm assuming we won't be seeing another gap like we did between the Wii and the PS3/Xbox 360.

 

[Card Boy]

Anti-used + No PS3 BC = Me never touching this POS system.

I will go Xbox 720 next gen, i always wanted to play Halo.

 

[Plinko]

Anti-used + No PS3 BC = Me never touching this POS system.

I will go Xbox 720 next gen, i always wanted to play Halo.

Rumors are that MS is going this way, too.

 

[Azure J]

Kotaku's next gen sources are very good, yes.
[...]
I can't believe everyone in this thread just glanced over this and continued to be pissed off at the inevitable game-locking system all future consoles will have. Here, brain_stew is revealing the exact architecture of the PS4 CPU, and nobody picked up on it? For shame, GAF.

Oh I caught on.

BTW brain_stew knows his shit guys.

 

[likedamaster]

I don't buy the resolution. After all, they promised a 120fps playstation 3 (lulz).

 

[Infinite Justice]

Anti-used + No PS3 BC = Me never touching this POS system.

I will go Xbox 720 next gen, i always wanted to play Halo.

You do realize 720 is rumored to go anti-used as well right so unless your getting it for the possible(?) 360 library.