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Kotaku Rumor: PlayStation 4 codenamed 'Orbis', 2013, AMD CPU, SI GPU, Anti-Used Games
- Thread starter LiK
- Start date
Conciliator
Banned
Don't care about used games, but if that prevents me from playing rentals than I'm out. Don't plan to buy one anywhere near release anyway, but you know.
games are written in C/C++ which typically involve a bit of hardware interaction. 360 still had a "PC Like" architecture even though it was POWER. I think if the Cell architecture wasn't a complicated debacle, you would see it used in more than 1 application.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
LOL @ Trophies, I couldn't care less... wait a second
toddhunter
Member
You are still making a fundamental error in your argument. You are stating that the PS4 will be a major console (we are talking about next-next gen remember?). What I am saying is if the 'big games' are not on the console, and publishers certainly have this power if Sony will not play along (there are not that many publishers these days) it will not be a major console at all.
Hence they are not necessarily cutting out any of their audience. Gamers buy a console for games. No games? No console.
Think it can't happen? The PS3 was certainly cutting it close in the early days. A lot has changed in the competitive landscape since then and not for the better for Sony.
iceatcs
Junior Member
I think it could happen. Kind of happened with Wii against PS3/360. Some games come later on Wii or not at all. That is because of the system limitation problem, even thought Wii was winning on sale most of time.
I dunno if publisher will completely withdraw on non anti-used system because you can still on digital only. They sort of done before with retail multi-platform titles on this gen.
We really don't know if PSN titles would be included. I'd wager most would be doable via emulation (assuming any of this is true).
They don't have one? If anything, they've done the most with it. If a viable architecture prevents it though, how can they be blamed? Should they tank the division for you?
The theory is this would actually help non-AAA titles.
That said, there's nothing written thus far that would make this objectively 'anti used games'.
First, I wouldn't expect the 4k thing to be about games ... it's for movies, other than maybe some simply arcade games. Second, let's say they actually did go for 4k games. Why would they need AA?
You honestly think Apple would release something that's more open than the competition? lol
Obviously ... but it's a pretty popular model here.
Moreover, PC's have been 'anti used games' in general for a long time. Activation codes, etc. galore. I just find it weird people are saying they'd prefer to go PC when these sorts of ideas actually came from the PC and are quite prevalent.
Lion Heart
Banned
I need a powerful console. I mean, I won't miss GT6 but I don't want a PS2 situation again where I wish everything on the system was on the Xbox because it would look so much better. Thats my main priority.
Perhaps you need to start looking into PC gaming? lol
Assuming you meant "isn't," yes, renting is illegal. But I said nothing about renting in my post.
Xbox live. They made you pay for your dlc again if you wanted it on your 360. That's assuming the game worked on 360 in the first place.
Lion Heart
Banned
I'm PC/PS but there are a lot of games that are only on consoles, not to mention PS first party. I also don't want a lowest common denominator to screw up the graphics ceiling for PC and consoles (whether its PS4 or the next xbox) which is another issue altogether.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
I don't care about BC, and I don't see why people care so much... I keep my old consoles, and you can probably get older consoles for cheap when the next gen happens anyways. It also just makes the console more expensive.
Then anti-used games, I'd be happy if that made this industry less shitty, but I'm scared nothing would change :/
Then anti-used games, I'd be happy if that made this industry less shitty, but I'm scared nothing would change :/
It's a wild fantasy, but to be honest the fact they care so much can indicate for some of them that it's a desperation tactic. I don't think EA's actually BEEN turning a profit for example, and budgets keep getting ridiculously high. Combine that with how this generation has been on publishers/developers, and unless the console launches coincide with an amazing economic recovery I do think we're going to see casualties, and at least not AS much benefit from killing used sales as they'd like.
MrCunningham
Member
Isn't the Wii U's processor based on an updated version of Xenon with a large eDRAM cache? And with the GPU being based on R700 architecture... It sounds like it's going to be an XBox 360 on steroids to me. It will still probably end up being the weakest of the three consoles in terms of raw horsepower, but still acceptable enough for Nintendo's needs. (and hopefully third party developers too)
I wonder which one will get lucky and walk away without crabs this time? :S
digita1alchemy
Member
So if Microsoft and Sony's next gen consoles are BOTH anti-used games, does that mean Wii U wins by default?
No, it's an out-of-order architecture - different than what's out in consoles now. Not based on Xenon, though there were a couple rumours that the first kits had that. The first kits, on those same rumours, apparently had off-the-shelf 4830s. Whatever ends up in the Wii U will be different/customized. Will be out of order, have triple the cache, and have some kind of EDRam according to IBM's press release.
AMD Southern Islands GPU ?
Isn't same series rumored to be in 720?
Yes it is
"system's GPU will indeed begin by the end of 2012 but will not, however, be based on AMD's 7000 series Southern Islands GPU. Instead, the processor will be derived from the 6000 series, which was introduced last year. More specifically, it will be akin to the Radeon HD 6670, which offers support for DirectX11, multidisplay output, 3D and 1080p HD output. The chip currently has a market price of upwards of $79.99."
Isn't same series rumored to be in 720?
Yes it is
"system's GPU will indeed begin by the end of 2012 but will not, however, be based on AMD's 7000 series Southern Islands GPU. Instead, the processor will be derived from the 6000 series, which was introduced last year. More specifically, it will be akin to the Radeon HD 6670, which offers support for DirectX11, multidisplay output, 3D and 1080p HD output. The chip currently has a market price of upwards of $79.99."
It's not like devs just learned the architecture this year, they've been pushing the system for years now. Cell is the main reason games are at parity right now.
Points can be made for either company going high or low on the performance scale. IMO it's safest to assume both will shoot for high end while hoping the other doesn't trump them in any significant way.
Want to bet that everyone sucks it up and moves on?
MrCunningham
Member
Iwata: [Laughs]
...Lets just hope that Nintendo doesn't follow this trend. :S
Ah, thanks. I haven't been following Wii U development at all. The last rumors I've read were half a year ago...
It does in my eyes. I'm buying the platform that is least anti-consumer. If its none of them then I'm going back to PC gaming where games are cheaper and I'll definitely be able to play them in 10 years time. Fuck this anti-consumer bullshit and any company that supports it.
6670 is not GCN, it is VLIW. 7670 is also still Turks.
What Microsoft is (now) targeting is more akin to what Sony is targeting and will depend on release timing as to what the final silicon will be.
IGN has been pretty good with their rumour accuracy, so the only way I can see that one coming true is if the Turks GPU will end up in the Xbox Lite that keeps popping up in rumour circles.
Wii U has an NFC reader. You don't think that's there for a reason outside of scanning figurines?
What Microsoft is (now) targeting is more akin to what Sony is targeting and will depend on release timing as to what the final silicon will be.
IGN has been pretty good with their rumour accuracy, so the only way I can see that one coming true is if the Turks GPU will end up in the Xbox Lite that keeps popping up in rumour circles.
Wii U has an NFC reader. You don't think that's there for a reason outside of scanning figurines?
Xplatformer
Member
day 1 regardless...unless it ships with a DS3 like controller.
If they do it they lose out too. I've been a console gamer for 23 years and I won't be any longer. I will not be supporting this behaviour in the console environment.
While the broadcast isn't 1080p, the content itself is 1080p for most broadcasts (Disney owned and Fox networks notwithstanding). That's the magic of deinterlacing for content at 24 and 30 fps. You are receiving and displaying progressive content - it just uses interlacing as a type of compression.
That said, no ... don't expect 4k games. It's for BD 4k mostly.
x86 isn't magically more hackable than other architectures. It's hackability is dependent on the OS and security measures running on top of it.
Plenty. Either external units, or built into receivers and dedicated video processors.
Knee jerk reaction by people reading more into it than what's actually being presented ... and all for info that we can't currently gauge reliabilityGemüsepizza;36436790 said:
Sony could still use something with visual tracking similar to Move and still dramatically reduce the size of the sphere. Its size was dictated by the low resolution of the camera. Increase the resolution, and you decrease the required size of the tracked object.
Good luck emulating CELL.
I've maybe bought 2 this gen?
The problem is Gamestop's pricing is many times only $5-10 better ... so most of the time I'd rather go new. Hell, many times you can actually find the game new for the same price or cheaper if you search around, at least for older games.
Actually I expect the pricing will be pretty good on 4k during next gen. There is going to be a ton of competition from CE's, and they're moving forward with physical media for it.
That said, it won't be for games (maybe a few simple ones). It's for BD and passive/auto-stereoscopic 3D (1080p)
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
That's exactly what people said about 3DTVs and look how poorly those are selling. It took people years to upgrade to regular HDTVs. Now that they've finally done that, you honestly think they're going to jump at the chance at 4K resolution, something that will take a decade or more to get reasonable support for?
The 4K is there for output support (as with the newer HDMI port standards). i.e. 4K blurays will be playable at full 4K on the PS4, unlike the hacked-up solution they devised on the PS3.
720p and 1080p (and everything in between, judging by this gen) will be the default rendering solutions next gen, depending on the game.
4K is about a decade away from any kind of meaningful home penetration.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
Well fucking said.
You think Joe Sixpack who probably JUST upgraded to HD is going to go and buy some 4k bullshit he wouldn't even begin to understand the benefits of? HA.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I understand that point, I just disagree with those who think that 3D in 1080p will get anybody to actually buy the system.
shinra-bansho
Member
Sounds somewhat legitimate.
If the CPU and GPU architectures are too different to make BC compatible then that part would make sense.
While tying games to accounts to prevent used games makes sense in the broader rumor picture. If the next XBOX does it then the next PS will, and vice versa; otherwise they risk losing publisher support to the competition.
As for Orbis, it fits with Vita. And as probably already mentioned the number 4 has negative connotations in Japanese culture.
As for the 4K; I'm assuming that would be for media rather than games.
Can the more technical among us elaborate on whether this rumor points to a $599 situation?
If the CPU and GPU architectures are too different to make BC compatible then that part would make sense.
While tying games to accounts to prevent used games makes sense in the broader rumor picture. If the next XBOX does it then the next PS will, and vice versa; otherwise they risk losing publisher support to the competition.
As for Orbis, it fits with Vita. And as probably already mentioned the number 4 has negative connotations in Japanese culture.
As for the 4K; I'm assuming that would be for media rather than games.
Can the more technical among us elaborate on whether this rumor points to a $599 situation?
Sony isn't going to be making that mistake again. The rumoured hardware would corroborate that opinion.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I'm not in the 'more technical' group but in the more commonsensical group I have to believe that there is absolutely no chance that happens again.
LowEndTorque
Member
GT6 as a launch title = Day 1 successful launch.
If SCE really want this new platform to start off strong, then they should pour whatever resources it takes into making this happen.
If SCE really want this new platform to start off strong, then they should pour whatever resources it takes into making this happen.
I lol'd
iceatcs
Junior Member
I think it'll high likely match the Wii U launch price.
Surely a heady mix of the PS3's slow start owing to it's high price and Sony's precarious financial situation means that this system won't be another high end, premium priced item.
Manmademan
Member
And not even that- Joe Sixpack can't even tell when he's watching HD, and when he isn't.
http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20091014/study-shows-people-difference-hd/
unless you're literally sitting them side by side, the average consumer can't distinguish between 480p, 720p, and 1080p, and there's been resounding indifference to 3D content- Even in theatres! (Avatar Aside.)
4K isn't a selling point. At all. To anyone. The only people who would remotely give a damn (hardcore gamers and gadget nuts) are likely buying the console ANYWAY for different reasons.
Yeah, $599 isn't happening- and since there really isn't an HD-DVD/Blu-Ray type war looming, there's no reason to pack the PS4 with bleeding edge tech. You can look at the Vita as an indication of what Sony might do- It's impressive hardware with some neat innovations, but still managed to be price competitive at launch.
If that's the case, it's not anti-used game. It's a way for Sony and partners to take a cut from pre-owned sales. The buyers may still pay less than the new game.
shinra-bansho
Member
Should probably elaborate. I'm not asking so much whether they're going to go with $599 and take a $200 loss per unit, but whether components of the rumored technical power (4K resolutions, 1080P 3D etc.) be expensive.
Is it looking like either:
I imagine the highest acceptable price for a new console these days is $399.
Is it looking like either:
- It will need to be priced higher to avoid too much of a loss
- They will need to take a significant loss to keep a low price
I imagine the highest acceptable price for a new console these days is $399.
no shit that they will be expensive. Don't expect anything bellow 449
About the BC, every console manufacturer is mad, if they don't allow you access to the titles you've already bought from their respective onlive services. It's a very important step towards consumer lock-in to an ecosystem. I doubt any of them are gonna give up on that.
I think it's a big problem if consoles go in that direction. I like to be able to borrow games to and from my friends, not to mention the larger problem that this is yet another devaluation of our rights* as consumers. How long before we don't own our games at all?
*I know they're not universal rights we are entitled to, but that doesn't mean I wanna give them up.
I think it's a big problem if consoles go in that direction. I like to be able to borrow games to and from my friends, not to mention the larger problem that this is yet another devaluation of our rights* as consumers. How long before we don't own our games at all?
*I know they're not universal rights we are entitled to, but that doesn't mean I wanna give them up.
herzogzwei1989
Banned
Alright so PS4 is going to use an AMD Southern Islands GPU. Assuming it's still a custom GPU, which one within the SI family is the most likely?