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[Neptonic]

It will be easy to do external saves through the mobile app on your smartphone device!

the darkest timeline

 

[unrenowned]

Surely Nintendo has it covered with cloud saves and a hardware-agnostic account system.

 

[War Raichu]

I will be shocked when Pokémon Switch won't be limited at 1 save.

As long as each user account has its own save files (and it should, but this is Nintendo), multiple save files for Pokemon seems entirely possible. Just create a dummy account and launch the game with it.

 

[RampagingSoul]

No.

Saves being on the cartridge has been a standard with cartridge based systems since... Forever.

This is an unprecedented move.

Most, if not all, of the Vita's games require you to have a memory card for saves.

The original Vita had no internal storage as well, so you were forced to buy a memory card if you bought a game like Persona 4 Golden for example. That's why they had required memory card space pictures on Vita game boxes.

 

[D.Lo]

Most, if not all, of the Vita's games require you to have a memory card for saves.

The original Vita had no internal storage as well, so you were forced to buy a memory card if you bought a game like Persona 4 Golden for example. That's why they had required memory card space pictures on Vita game boxes.

Same 20 years ago with the N64. Half of 3rd party games needed the memory card. The switch at least has built in memory unlike N64 and Vita.

 

[RampagingSoul]

Same 20 years ago with the N64. Half of 3rd party games needed the memory card. The switch at least has built in memory unlike N64 and Vita.

Yeah, I remember that about the N64 now that I think about it.

Still would have liked a lot more built in memory than 32 GB though, but I'll get a Micro SD at some point for it whenever I get the system.

 

[ggx2ac]

Same 20 years ago with the N64. Half of 3rd party games needed the memory card. The switch at least has built in memory unlike N64 and Vita.

Also, people seem to forget password saves on NES/Sega Master System. It's not using any rewritable memory, it's just changing variables to the RAM to load what stage you are at and what items you are carrying.

 

[Dark Ninja]

I will be shocked when Pokémon Switch won't be limited at 1 save.

They will find a way. Like how games like Smash Bros Brawl didn't allow you to copy its data off the console to back it up. I bet they limit it to one account can only have the save and no external saving devices supported for that specific game.

 

[Screamapillar]

Cheaper, yes. But strategically, Nintendo will likely want cloud saves for Switch titles, so saving to system storage will facilitate that. Game card-specific save files wouldnt make sense if theyre going to implement cloud saving.

This really isnt a big deal. Anyone used to console gaming since the PS1 era wont even know any differently.

 

[robotrock]

If they decide to lock cloud saves behind a paywall I'm sure there'll be a grace period (like in Pokémon Bank for example) before it gets removed. But I wouldn't say it's already granted that this'll be the case. Making their online paid doesn't mean all aspects of it will be paid. Other than that you can obviously still save your game on the internal memory of the Switch.

What's the grace period in Pokemon Bank?

 

[SinCityAssassin]

What's the grace period in Pokemon Bank?

Around a month.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Around a month.

I've seen people say around 4 months. The official site FAQ doesn't explicitly say

 

[SystemUser]

The second quote...

The Switch Game Cards have a serial interface rather than a parallel one like on the DS/3DS. Because they don't need to save games on cart, the serial interface can read games faster than what the parallel interface did and it's cheaper as well because they don't need to reserve pins on the interface to write save data.

My mistake, I mean to say it's cheaper to go with a higher bandwidth serial interface than parallel for read only.

Edit: Posted more below.

From the second quote there was added info if you go back to his original post.



And again, the Switch Game Cards are using a serial interface for reference whereas DS/3DS had a parallel interface which is a matter of cost.

I guess it makes sense that having more pins and a dedicated one way interface would increase speed. I was thinking of there not being speed gains between a cart with and without some writable storage. I didn't think about how it would change the platform.

 

[Dryk]

As long as the save data isn't locked down to the system due to piracy fears again I don't really care what they do. The Wii U's save system is an abomination.

 

[family_guy]

Good, I hate having save files locked to a specific cart.

But what if it's locked to the hardware?

 

[D.Lo]

Also, people seem to forget password saves on NES/Sega Master System. It's not using any rewritable memory, it's just changing variables to the RAM to load what stage you are at and what items you are carrying.

That's true actually, all the say through 16-bit as well. And GB, GB Colour, Game Gear, PC Engine, GBA. Typically only first party games and RPGs had on cart saving. Longer action games had passwords, and many games had no saving at all.

The memory card (or onboard saving like Saturn/PCE CD etc) allowed all games to have saving at no extra hardware cost to the publishers, and that's pretty much when game saving became standard, essentially because publishers were cheapskates.

 

[Pokemaniac]

The main thing that worries me is if there'll be a significant speed difference between the carts and the microSD card. I'm very inclined to go all digital and willing to spend a bit of extra money to get a high end card, but if games are optimized for very high speeds that could not go so well. I guess I'll just have to wait to see how this plays out.

Saves only to internal memory should be a non-issue so long as Nintendo actually rolls out the cloud save features of My Nintendo to the system.

 

[D.Lo]

But what if it's locked to the hardware?

Saves locked to hardware are fine unless you want to share save files with friends (or on the internet). Which you could not do if saves were on the cart anyway.

And saves tied to hardware definitely make piracy harder, as they prevent game exploits from being easily shared. Region free and all solid state memory mean there's much less argument for homebrew use, the only real use of exploits would be piracy.

 

[Zaventem]

It will be easy to do external saves through the mobile app on your smartphone device!

Seriously if they don't allow cloud saves it will be inexcusable.

lol. Having backup saves is important in this day and age, don't even care if it's only tied to nintendo's account service( if they go ahead with that scenario)

 

[Bjoern the Smexy]

This is actually not as big a problem as I would've thought.
Makes reselling the physical game and switching to digital easier.

You also don't lose your saves when you sell and later rebuy the game.
Let's just hope that saves won't be 300MB or more in size.

 

[Tanoooki]

I don't know how much a game save takes up but it seems like a smart move if they take up a lot of room... Maybe it lets developers maximize how much they can fit on a card if they don't need to worry about save space..... or maybe it's just a way for Nintendo to sell storage? I'm not sure since they aren't using proprietary memory cards.

 

[LiK]

I'll miss those days of finding people's saves on their carts.

 

[KHlover]

That's good...IF they have cloud saves

I'll miss those days of finding people's saves on their carts.

I just bought Bravely Second used and there was 200 hours worth of savegames on the card. Thank god the game has three slots, didn't have to delete them.

 

[Makeda]

I guess because I always upgrade my handhelds when new ones are announced by selling my old one to finance the upgrade. If I need my device to transfer my saves this becomes much harder. Being able to keep my Pokémon saves without having to keep the device is something I have relied on since the Game Boy games. I mean, I still have my original Pokémon Blue cartridge, and I haven't had a device that could play it since 2000.

Ah but with the way the switch saves data (i.e. to internal storage or memory cards) you WILL be able to keep your Pokemon game save data.
Not only that, but providing there is no lock-out regarding save data to the system and specific versions of the game, in theory you could even sell off the system AND the physical game then re-buy it later and still keep your data as long as you didn't sell the Micro SD card the save data is on.

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

I actually genuinely prefer this, as I'm less concerned about what happens to the cartridge and can (theoretically, assuming Nintendo doesn't pull something stupid) back up my saves for even my physical games. Though I get why other would have an issue with it.

That's good...IF they have cloud saves

Nintendo announced them ages back, though they haven't talked about them since...

 

[PtM]

So, in theory, if I were to own a cartridge Switch game and somehow later acquired the digital version, I could probably use my save across either?

It works on the U.

 

[CDX]

Good!

I hated having saves tied to the cartridge on the 3DS. One of the things I hated about cartridges, that saves lived and died and stayed forever on the cartridge. Remember battery saves? Ughh.

Hopefully cartridge game saves and digital download saves are compatible with each other. So if you borrow a game then later buy it digitally the same save will work.

Also a way to back saves up to the SD card and then keep them backed up on the PC would be a huge plus, but not as necessary if the Switch has cloud saving and backups.

 

[chrisPjelly]

Oh, that's a shame. One of the coolest aspects of the 3ds and the carts of old. I guess it can be sacrificed if it means better manufacturing costs and card longevity.

 

[LiK]

I just bought Bravely Second used and there was 200 hours worth of savegames on the card. Thank god the game has three slots, didn't have to delete them.

wow, that guy really played the shit outta of it lol

 

[Avixph]

So that means that an Action Replay device for the Switch is out of the question?

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

So that means that an Action Replay device for the Switch is out of the question?

Yep. Unless they find a new way.

In a sense 3ds games had the ability to prevent it, provided it saved to extdata only. Granted a large amount aren't set that way.

 

[funkystudent]

Wonder if you can backup saves or will they be locked down to the system.

 

[Avixph]

Yep. Unless they find a new way.

In a sense 3ds games had the ability to prevent it, provided it saved to extdata only. Granted a large amount aren't set that way.

Ah that's too bad.

 

[hamauzu kaito]

I don't remember hearing anything about mega patches for Nintendo games, so I doubt you'll ever see enough patches to fill that memory.

Though Skyrim has me worried.

If needed they could do something like that pokemon store patch kiosk they did before. That seemed to work pretty well.

 

[family_guy]

Saves locked to hardware are fine unless you want to share save files with friends (or on the internet). Which you could not do if saves were on the cart anyway.

And saves tied to hardware definitely make piracy harder, as they prevent game exploits from being easily shared. Region free and all solid state memory mean there's much less argument for homebrew use, the only real use of exploits would be piracy.

I'm speaking in the case that something happens to your system. How do you recover from that? We haven't heard of any cloud saving.

 

[FyreWulff]

This doesn't sit right with me. This sounds more like a gut reaction to increase security instead of providing a decent way for players to manage there save data. I would much prefer to have my saves on a personal SD card and backed up offline in a computer file in case of problems.

This is actually technically worse for security as if a game has an exploit, Nintendo can't patch any of the copies in the wild by sending out an update and reducing the exploit cart count, the only thing they could do is recall and reprint.

 

[ATXAlchemy]

You are quoting a source before it was even call Vita. There are 2 types of Vita game, one with space for game save, and other that would not work if you don't have a memory card.

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/play...mes-that-do-not-require-a-memory-ca-29023562/

Yes, and that source is Sony itself. Developers are allowed to develop games for Vita before it was called Vita.

The thread you listed just says where the game developer has decided to put their saves and patches on memory card or game card. It does not say whether the game cards itself still has reserved memory or not. They're not mutually exclusive. But if you do have a 'newer' source where it says that game cards no longer has reserved spaces for saves and patches, please do post.

Because most games seems to have stopped at 3.3GB, which is a few hundred MBs below than what you would expect of a '4GB Vita Game Card' (it should be around 3.7GB when using non-marketing terms) and sounds about right the limit when you consider that 10% is reserved for save/patch. Dangan Ronpa V3, released just a few weeks ago, stops at 3.3GB and has an ~900MB audio quality upgrade patch.

Games that have significant patches usually surpass that 5~10% reserved game cart memory, so they end up putting the patch on the memory card anyways.

Regardless, Switch Game cards not doing what Sony did with Vita cards is good. Also, I do think that Vita having a 4GB card limit is also not good planning from Sony (might be a technical limitation, but not good regardless), considering that PSP already had games using 2 UMDs.

 

[CertifiedFP]

I don't remember hearing anything about mega patches for Nintendo games, so I doubt you'll ever see enough patches to fill that memory.

Though Skyrim has me worried.

It's a 10GB game... AFTER DLCs and major updates.

The remastered version bumped it up to about 11GB.

 

[Pokemaniac]

This is actually technically worse for security as if a game has an exploit, Nintendo can't patch any of the copies in the wild by sending out an update and reducing the exploit cart count, the only thing they could do is recall and reprint.

Patches never got saved to carts and never will because that's a disaster waiting to happen for a variety of reasons, including security.

 

[xzeldax3]

This is great because I hate when some Vita games store save files on the cart because I can't back them up with PS+.

 

[FyreWulff]

Patches never got saved to carts and never will because that's a disaster waiting to happen for a variety of reasons, including security.

I know, I'm just saying why it's technically worse, because any mistakes are forever.

It also makes sense that saves will be on storage anyway, even regular game saves are getting larger as games are demanded to become more complex and therefore saving the state of the game grows.

 

[FyreWulff]

As a player id be interested to know what that means for third party games where sizeable day one updates are now the norm. Does this mean staggered release dates?

I'd almost assume Switch digital first and then a print run of cards. There was a statistic Nintendo presented at GDC where 97% of Wii Us were online. I legit think most of Switch's sales are going to be digital.

 

[Pokemaniac]

Yes, and that source is Sony itself. Developers are allowed to develop games for Vita before it was called Vita.

The thread you listed just says where the game developer has decided to put their saves and patches on memory card or game card. It does not say whether the game cards itself still has reserved memory or not. They're not mutually exclusive. But if you do have a 'newer' source where it says that game cards no longer has reserved spaces for saves and patches, please do post.

Because most games seems to have stopped at 3.3GB, which is a few hundred MBs below than what you would expect of a '4GB Vita Game Card' (it should be around 3.7GB when using non-marketing terms) and sounds about right the limit when you consider that 10% is reserved for save/patch. Dangan Ronpa V3, released just a few weeks ago, stops at 3.3GB and has an ~900MB audio quality upgrade patch.

Games that have significant patches usually surpass that 5~10% reserved game cart memory, so they end up putting the patch on the memory card anyways.

Regardless, Switch Game cards not doing what Sony did with Vita cards is good. Also, I do think that Vita having a 4GB card limit is also not good planning from Sony (might be a technical limitation, but not good regardless), considering that PSP already had games using 2 UMDs.

The discrepancy in available space is most likely due to a system update partition (I'm just going to assume Sony has those, too, because it'd be kind of insane if they didn't) rather than storing patches. The rewritable space on a cartridge usually isn't even included when talking about the size of the things, because, unless the entire carts were flash (unlikely) because it's usually a separate bank of memory.

 

[Pokemaniac]

As a player id be interested to know what that means for third party games where sizeable day one updates are now the norm. Does this mean staggered release dates?

It probably means exactly the same thing as every single other console that supports patches and uses a non-re-writable storage medium (read: basically all of them). I'm not sure why you'd think the Switch would be any different in this regard.

 

[Chronospherics]

Isn't this better so that the carts don't die with age? (thus losing save data).

 

[Seloth]

Seems like it's gonna be a month of Nintendo bashing. Raising issues such as voice chat etc is all good but this feels like jumping on the hate train for clicks.

 

[hirokazu]

Seems fine?

32gb onboard is still too small, but I think we've been over that... where you at, 1TB sd cards?

I think it's fine if you're only the OS storing game saves on it. If you're not using an SD card to store other stuff, then yeah, it's a bit shit.

But hey, Apple still sells phones with only 32GB storage. XD

Isn't this better so that the carts don't die with age? (thus losing save data).

I don't think think carts do that anymore.

 

[XandBosch]

As long as I can save my game I don't really give a shit how it's done lol. Cloud saving or not, if I lose my system my saved game isn't my biggest worry lol

 

[Refyref]

The discrepancy in available space is most likely due to a system update partition (I'm just going to assume Sony has those, too, because it'd be kind of insane if they didn't) rather than storing patches. The rewritable space on a cartridge usually isn't even included when talking about the size of the things, because, unless the entire carts were flash (unlikely) because it's usually a separate bank of memory.

In fact, Vita cards are entirely NAND. That's the cause of plenty of their weirdness.

 

[Dreavus]

That's good...IF they have cloud saves



I just bought Bravely Second used and there was 200 hours worth of savegames on the card. Thank god the game has three slots, didn't have to delete them.

Nice. Reminds me of renting cart-based games as a kid. Sometimes we'd go back the next week and hope we'd get the same SNES/N64 cart with our save still on it.