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[ShockingAlberto]

Couldn't fit it in the thread title, but the story also reveals Eternal Darkness 2 was in development.

http://kotaku.com/5955223/what-went-wrong-with-silicon-knights-x+men-destiny

This is a really good piece of game journalism on Kotaku's part that confirms much of what I have heard (and relayed) about Silicon Knights in the last two years. Read the whole article, but here's some choice quotes.

But the former employees I spoke with painted a very different picture: an environment in which one man wields absolute power over everything that went on within the studio's four walls. One source described SK president Denis Dyack as a man who has "repeatedly stated to the company that artists are ‘a dime a dozen' and can be replaced." The same source described Dyack as a man who "proudly smiles in staff meetings and describes his role as a ‘benevolent dictatorship.'... Dyack is SK; SK is Dyack. They are one and the same — a single unchanging entity."

"I distinctly remember a theater review of the ‘Chinatown' level, which was so broken that it was completely unnavigable, even by the lead designer playing it," a source says. "Dyack's only note was that the ‘lights should be more red.' In another instance, he thought the final boss fight should be interrupted by ‘a challenge room'—his favourite thing from Too Human."

This command structure wasn't always such a fatal flaw, former employees said. Before Silicon Knights cut ties with Japanese powerhouse Nintendo following the 2004 release of Twin Snakes, the studio had crucial outside help for game quality, design and process. "This is the reason for the extremely high quality games that SK built a reputation on," says one source. "Nintendo was going to put their name on the game, so it had to be 'Nintendo quality.'"

Silicon Knights' post-Nintendo releases certainly took a dive in quality, based on the low Metacritic scores for Too Human and X-Men: Destiny, so this theory seems plausible. "Once [Nintendo] were out of the picture, SK could do whatever they wanted," a source says. "Denis believed that SK was finally out from under the oppressive nature of Nintendo as a publisher. Once Denis was given more freedom, things started to fall apart."

Next, according to sources, comes the request from SK that it requires additional time to complete the project. "We aren't talking a couple of months of full production here," the same source says. "We are talking six to 12 months; almost always 12 months. This basically blows out the budget for the game by an additional 35 percent or so. You can imagine the reaction this got from the financial guys doing projections over at Activision."

For some former employees, it became "a bit of a sick game" to come into work each Monday and see how many more people had resigned. "At one point there was a collection of name plates in the art department that were taped to a drawing of a tree," recalls one. "It was growing with every resignation. Denis was extremely pissed when he saw it after a few weeks, but most people saw it as a remembrance of colleagues who had moved on and would be missed. We were losing people like crazy. The first people to go were some of the strongest, longest-standing employees at SK." These are people with "lead" and "director" in their titles.

The answer is far more exciting: Eternal Darkness 2, which Kotaku can reveal that SK was working on in parallel to the Activision contract.

"SK didn't take the development of XMD seriously the entire time I was there," a source says. "They were working on an Eternal Darkness 2 demo that they could take to publishers. While I was there, they were even siphoning off staff from my [XMD] team to work on it." Sources allege that many of SK's programmers, artists and designers were not contributing to the final quality of XMD at all—at least, not in the first year of the game's development. "I was always complaining to the producers about this, as the numbers never worked out," the same source says. "Denis is not an X-Men fan either, so he didn't care much for the license. To him, it seemed more like a job to get us by, until ED2 could be developed and sold to a publisher—which never happened."

Yet despite this reportedly split effort, the ED2 demo also failed to come together in a satisfying way, sources said. "The farthest they got with it when I left SK was, literally, one two-level church interior," says one former employee. "It was really bad, as I recall. It took the side-team a long time to even get that far. Bad tech, combined with a team composed of people who had not shipped a title since Metal Gear really hurt that demo. Other than that, I can't explain why things went so poorly for them [except that] a lot of key people responsible for the original Eternal Darkness are long gone."

Fascinating stuff and kudos to Kotaku on the article.

 

[Kyou]

This was a really good read, also...

This is a really good piece of game journalism on Kotaku's part

!

 

[Denzar]

GODDAMMIT

They were making Eternal Darkness 2.


Good read.

 

[StuBurns]

SK couldn't make a Nintendo quality game? SHOCKING NEWS

 

[YuriLowell]

So SK is officially gone?

 

[frankie_baby]

Seems like a great use of resources to put developers on a game they don't even own the rights to a shop it around

 

[ElFly]

Man, that's some quality journalism.

Congrats to kotaku and Andrew McMillen.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

So SK is officially gone?

They're hanging on by their fingers but the Epic trial and the fact that no publisher will make a deal with them means they're going to have to drastically downsize even more.

 

[Patryn]

GODDAMMIT

They were making Eternal Darkness 2.


Good read.

I guarantee that any Eternal Darkness the modern SK would produce would not come close to the quality of the original.

They clearly lost the plot when it came time to start current gen development. They never had the knowledge or the skill to create a truly polished modern game.

They're hanging on by their fingers but the Epic trial and the fact that no publisher will make a deal with them means they're going to have to drastically downsize even more.

If this article is correct, they have 5 employees. There isn't really that much further down they can go before they officially cease to exist (which will probably happen in the next year or two).

 

[Kyou]

They're hanging on by their fingers but the Epic trial and the fact that no publisher will make a deal with them means they're going to have to drastically downsize even more.

Are they still getting that sweet, sweet Canadian government money?

 

[Baroni9]

Several sources report that the company today exists as a shell of its former self, employing less than five staff—including Denis Dyack.

Whoa.

 

[YuriLowell]

Sounds like its time for iOS games and a kickstarter.

 

[Criminal Upper]

"They were working on an Eternal Darkness 2 demo that they could take to publishers.

THIS MAKES NO SENSE.

 

[firehawk12]

All dat public funding.

Although I guess they didn't get all the money in the end.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Yet despite this reportedly split effort, the ED2 demo also failed to come together in a satisfying way, sources said. "The farthest they got with it when I left SK was, literally, one two-level church interior," says one former employee. "It was really bad, as I recall. It took the side-team a long time to even get that far. Bad tech, combined with a team composed of people who had not shipped a title since Metal Gear really hurt that demo. Other than that, I can't explain why things went so poorly for them [except that] a lot of key people responsible for the original Eternal Darkness are long gone."

zetsubou

 

[deadhorse32]

[In his mind] you're either for him, or against him

lol

 

[Kifimbo]

THIS MAKES NO SENSE.

They would have change the title.

 

[Vampirolol]

Even Eternal Darkness was dated in many mechanincs.

 

[Patryn]

I'm actually kind of surprised that they never talked about Dyack's meltdown on GAF. That was definitely an event bigger than just this forum for both him and the company.

 

[Sojgat]

lol

"He sets examples of those who offend him. He is incapable of celebrating others' successes. He is irrationally competitive to a fault; for example, he has to sue Epic Games and gloat about it online . [In his mind] you're either for him, or against him."

This reminds me of those "close friends/confidential sources" quotes from gossip mags. It does sound about right though.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

lol

It all comes together.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Kickstarter! For or Against?!

 

[Kyou]

This command structure wasn't always such a fatal flaw, former employees said. Before Silicon Knights cut ties with Japanese powerhouse Nintendo following the 2004 release of Twin Snakes, the studio had crucial outside help for game quality, design and process. "This is the reason for the extremely high quality games that SK built a reputation on," says one source. "Nintendo was going to put their name on the game, so it had to be 'Nintendo quality.'"

Silicon Knights' post-Nintendo releases certainly took a dive in quality, based on the low Metacritic scores for Too Human and X-Men: Destiny, so this theory seems plausible. "Once [Nintendo] were out of the picture, SK could do whatever they wanted," a source says.

This was particularly interesting. I can think of a few more cases of Nintendo taking a western dev under their wing only for them to nose dive as soon as Nintendo splits. I wonder if it was similar "Thank god those assholes are gone, now we can really shine!!" attitudes.

 

[mattp]

shopping ed2 to publishers? does that mean sk owns the rights to eternal darkness? i was always under the impression nintendo did

 

[EviLore]

Against.

As Confucius once said, “the photoshop cat juggles a ball of yarn, and unravels it all over his face.” You are Baldur, Denis. You’re the poorly animated bald Norse technogod, the Übermensch with a thousand pointless book references misunderstood by the dirty proles who aren’t worthy enough to judge you.

Your favorite Nietzsche quote, "he who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster," is one you’ve fallen victim to yourself, if your opinion of this site is to be taken to heart. In these pitiable confrontations with us you've proven to be the monster of gaming development, a sore on the industry and a squanderer of your subordinates' time and effort. Through all this, through this self-inflicted PR nightmare, you’ve conquered vast new frontiers of unwarranted hyperbole and desperate pseudo-intellectual grasping. Buy an unaccredited doctorate, change your given name to Derek, and take up the reins; Derek Smart would eagerly defer to the greatness of Dr. Dyack.

What is an appropriate action to take in response to the man who continues to post here? I won't be tolerating a second retconned "social experiment," a second call for NeoGAF's closing, or a second "worst forum" insult. You decided to ignore the option for real terms for your pointless tag bet, so with the majority of reviews condemning your magnum opus to mediocrity I'll claim a suitable prize by telling you to get the hell off NeoGAF.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

shopping ed2 to publishers? does that mean sk owns the rights to eternal darkness? i was always under the impression nintendo did

I am relatively sure they do.

But maybe they were just internally calling the project Eternal Darkness 2 and, if and when they got a publisher, would change the name to something else.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Sucks for all the people at SK who were pulled under by a shitty leader. Though, if Too Human is any indicator, fuck their animators also.

You’re the poorly animated bald Norse technogod.

So good...

 

[Grief.exe]

I really did enjoy Too Human, probably for the same reason that I enjoy Dark/Demon Souls. The difficulty was there, the combat was great, and the RPG elements were good.

Once you understood how the combat worked out it was pretty fluid and skill based. Not to the extent of Dark Souls, but it was pretty good. Once you understood how to properly outfit your character with the right runes and what the caps were, it opened up a whole new level of depth.

There were a ton of flaws though, and I can see why people didn't enjoy the game. The pacing was pretty bad and you just kind of ran up against a difficulty wall in the second level if you didn't quickly grasp some of the concepts.

Hopefully someone picks up the IP and brings TH2 to PC.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

"I distinctly remember a theater review of the ‘Chinatown' level, which was so broken that it was completely unnavigable, even by the lead designer playing it," a source says. "Dyack's only note was that the ‘lights should be more red.' In another instance, he thought the final boss fight should be interrupted by ‘a challenge room'—his favourite thing from Too Human."

Another source recounts an anecdote from a different theater review. "The game was an unplayable disaster [in the review], but he got fixated on a static mesh of a non-interactive grey truck in the background. He gave the company a 20 minute lecture on the fact that he'd never buy a grey truck; he wanted it painted red." Accordingly, some SK employees sniggered behind their backs at Dyack: "We jokingly coined the phrase ‘paint the truck!' for other ridiculous, off-the-hip ‘executive orders' that sprang forth from Denis' mouth," says the same source. "Incidentally, I played the game after release... the truck is still grey."

Now I can't help but imagine Dyack insisting that there should be a giant spider boss in each game.

 

[U n i o n 0015]

It blows my mind that a studio could think of any game as a placeholder to "get by" when it's failure could mean no revenue coming in the door. Maybe if you can crank out hits in your sleep. SK was definitely not that kind of studio.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

I really did enjoy Too Human, probably for the same reason that I enjoy Dark/Demon Souls. The difficulty was there, the combat was great, and the RPG elements were good.

It was? I plowed through that game no problem, and I kind of suck at video games.

 

[ChosenPredator]

could of swore he flip at teamxbox too but i can't remember if that was the case. (when the site was really popular)

 

[Jackpot]

So Denis is more of an egomaniacal scumbag than anyone thought and cost all those people their jobs.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

THIS MAKES NO SENSE.

It does. If Nintendo rejected Eternal Darkness 2, it becomes "Forever Grayness", the spiritual successor published by SEGA or something. Just like Demon Souls became Dark Souls.

 

[Kevtones]

Depressing situation. Dyack needed/needs therapy.

 

[TheOddOne]

Hey Bish, unban the Dyack for just a week. I want to hear his response, could be gold.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Love this kind of insight. Great stuff.

Management is so fucking vital to this industry. Its the only way some of these studios can turn out impressive games every 20 months.

 

[JDSN]

I'm actually kind of surprised that they never talked about Dyack's meltdown on GAF. That was definitely an event bigger than just this forum for both him and the company.

Its probably business as usual for them at this point,

Now I can't help but imagine Dyack insisting that there should be a giant spider boss in each game.

A red steampunk spider.

In August 2010, Activision sent us a list of issues they had with the game." According to a source, this list requested SK's plans to complete the game, and how they would, in the source's words, "attempt to make it fun at all." Activision's list also noted that they were "unsatisfied with Silicon Knights' failures to ever address their notes over the course of development," recalls the same source.

Damn.

 

[Neiteio]

Huh, I thought Nintendo still owned the Eternal Darkness franchise, but apparently SK was developing ED2 for any publisher who would take it.

 

[Jackpot]

"Leaving the staff's name off credits is consistent with Denis' attitude towards former SK employees. If you leave SK, you are a ‘traitor,' and he will do whatever he can to fuck you by denying you the validation of a finished game credit. This includes bad-mouthing employees with upwards of 10 years' experience the day they are out the door."

daym.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Huh, I thought Nintendo still owned the Eternal Darkness franchise, but apparently SK was developing ED2 for any publisher who would take it.

Eternal Demon'sness

 

[To Far Away Times]

Makes me wonder how much input Nintendo had on Eternal Darkness. Eternal Darkness was pretty clunky, even for the time, but it had a lot of great ideas. Too Human was just flat out garbage with no redeeming qualities.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Now I can't help but imagine Dyack insisting that there should be a giant spider boss in each game.

Damn he sounds nuts and ultra-neurotic

 

[IdreamofHIME]

It was obvious at the time they were using this game as a stop-gap to fund something else, early trailers were super ugly.

Funny thing is, I thought it was alright. Not as bad as some have said

 

[TheOddOne]

Was the other game that they speak of that was cancelled "Too Human 2"? I remember that they signed with Microsoft for a trilogy.

Edit: Kept reading, guess it wasn't?

 

[Qurupeke]

Hey Bish, unban the Dyack for just a week. I want to hear his response, could be gold.

Hahaha. Great post.

 

[mjc]

I'm not really surprised by this after what happened four years ago. The dude had a meltdown and he's been spiraling downwards ever since.

 

[Takao]

Was the other game that they speak of that was cancelled "Too Human 2"? I remember that they signed with Microsoft for a trilogy.

Probably The Box/The Ritualyst for SEGA.

 

[Elginer]

In a way, I'm glad this Eternal Darkness 2 never came to light. I'd rather have my memories of the amazing original than have them ruined by a half-ass follow up that doesn't even come close to the genius of the first games. Denis it seems is a madman, which most of Gaf already knows from the whole "for or against" debacle.

An Eternal Darkness developed by a Modern SK would be terrible, the talent simply isn't there. Such a shame that studio that was one of my favs has gone this way, even more since they created the Legact of Kain series, one of favourite franchises of all time.

 

[TheOddOne]

Probably The Box/The Ritualyst for SEGA.

Yeah, sounds like it reading a bit further.