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[KingSnake]

Zhuge's numbers make sense.

The actual third party costs on a serviced packaged (from stamp to ship) is going to be in the neighborhood of 9-12$. The costs of a serviced packaged for a 32GB card being ~60% put you on the upper bound of ~7-8$ added already just from that linear increase.

Because retail cut is also based on a flat percentage, not a flat number, the increased cost of the package at retail (say, marked up to 45-48$ from BRDVD $40), results in a ~1-4$ markup added for retailer cut.

$40+8+2 ~= 50$USD

I'm actually surprised that the 32GB Masked ROM is actually that cheap, or that the 8GB is flat with BRDVD stamping + serviced package costs. Nintendo has to be eating some losses on these ROMs to make that lower end 8GB parity make sense.

Yeah, this makes sense.

 

[Pancake Mix]

..and it will hold its resale value better.

Don't think that's really the case for most multi-platform third-party releases on Nintendo platforms.

 

[Various Artists]

Fuck all this talk about cart costs

LA Noire was a fucking terrible game and I sincerely hope nobody buys it on switch.

Hmmm. Compelling and thought provoking. I for one am glad that you went out of your way to share your thoughts with us here and I can't wait to see what other gems you have in store for us during that time after dinner but before bedtime that your mom lets you use her iPad mini. (But only if your arithmetic homework is done!)

 

[Fiendcode]

Why were Vita carts cheaper than PS3 versions?

Whoever said Nintendo should be subsidising the costs is correct. But we're talking about Nintendo here. This is why third parties dont give a shit about Nintendo, because Nintendo doesnt give a shit about them. .

Because publishers ate the cost difference on Vita cards. LRG said it costs them more to produce a $40 Vita game than it does a $40 PS4 game.

 

[paragonpro]

Its like the n64 all over again

 

[Fiendcode]

Its like the n64 all over again

Yeah, except this time Final Fantasy might be returning to Nintendo consoles.

 

[HotHamBoy]

20 years on and the Nintendo cartridge tax is still a thing

Yeah, and just like the 64 and the GC they once again opted for a storage format that restricts the size of games.

Fortunately devs can have users download additional data but it definitely makes the internal storage that much more of an issue.

..and it will hold its resale value better.

Lol.

 

[DeuceGamer]

Simple:
devs and editors are not our friends, they just want to take the biggest profit so they don't take risks and depending on their sales projections they fix a price. You can see that they are really really making money on the MSRP because this can be cut 50% and sometimes more just a few months after release.

I've learned not to think gaming industry as a magical world. Games are magical (some at least) but business is business and sadly (big) devs and editors are all dirty bastards !!!
None of them would make a sacrifice in its profits for its audience. Never !

I agree, but that's kinda the point. Some are saying the increase makes sense and is necessary. It may be necessary at 32 GB's but I've yet to see anything that shows it's necessary at 8 GB's and maybe not 16 GB's.

 

[Lonely1]

Because publishers ate the cost difference on Vita cards. LRG said it costs them more to produce a $40 Vita game than it does a $40 PS4 game.

And Vita games never used the 8GB cards, presumably because it wasn't cost effective. Now, the 32GB are that spot for Switch games.

I agree, but that's kinda the point. Some are saying the increase makes sense and is necessary. It may be necessary at 32 GB's but I've yet to see anything that shows it's necessary at 8 GB's and maybe not 16 GB's.

It probably depends on volume too.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Is this really a big problem though ? There are always plenty of deals around, as retailers fight for our money.

I've not paid full retail price yet for a Switch game, that's including Zelda and Mario Kart, both cost me £42 on day 1, even though the RRP was £60 over here. It's just a case of shopping around.

 

[Neoxon]

Yeah, and just like the 64 and the GC they once again opted for a storage format that restricts the size of games.

Fortunately devs can have users download additional data but it definitely makes the internal storage that much more of an issue.



Lol.

Nintendo didn't really have a choice here since the Switch is a hybrid console.

 

[TyMiles2012]

But what about portability tax???? /s

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

Honestly, I'd be fine paying a more premium price for decent storage mediums. I have nothing against blu rays, but I really like carts.

 

[th4tguy]

As long as the digital version is $10 cheaper, I'm good.

 

[coughlanio]

At least we know why most of Nintendo's games come in under 8GB.

 

[Oregano]

I agree, but that's kinda the point. Some are saying the increase makes sense and is necessary. It may be necessary at 32 GB's but I've yet to see anything that shows it's necessary at 8 GB's and maybe not 16 GB's.

Zhuge evens says on twitter that he's aware of some publishers/games where they're charging more simply because they can.

 

[Ridley327]

At least we know why most of Nintendo's games come in under 8GB.

Funny enough, I think that two of their upcoming releases (Fire Emblem Warriors and Xenoblade 2) are going to use 16GB cards at a minimum. SMO will probably have no issues fitting onto an 8GB card, though.

 

[JDH]

Maybe it's time game companies work on better ways to optimize their games. For digital folk, internet speeds aren't vastly improving year over year, but game sizes are. Obviously cost of manufacturing certain types of media (like Switch cartridges) are increasing.

I'm honestly sick of some of these ridiculously sized games these days.

 

[Jubenhimer]

Sony overpriced memory cards. Nintendo overpriced literally every other accessory (hello $100 controllers and docks)




New management? In case you didnt notice Nintendo has increasingly been on some fuckboi shenanigans. Switch being a breakout success further emboldened them.

Much of what Nintendo is doing now has been started by Iwata. Not much would really change if he was still around. And Switch controllers aren't overpriced. Expensive? Yes, but not overpriced considering the functionality.

 

[TsunamiOfSwagger]

Fuck all this talk about cart costs

LA Noire was a fucking terrible game and I sincerely hope nobody buys it on switch.

 

[AzaK]

Yeah we've been over this already with this game and others. @ZhugeEx even went into it the other day.

What’s 60% more? 50c? $10? Blurays must be cheap as fuck.

 

[DeuceGamer]

Zhuge evens says on twitter that he's aware of some publishers/games where they're charging more simply because they can.

Yep, but some people overlooked that part. That remains my issue with it.

Is this really a big problem though ? There are always plenty of deals around, as retailers fight for our money.

I've not paid full retail price yet for a Switch game, that's including Zelda and Mario Kart, both cost me £42 on day 1, even though the RRP was £60 over here. It's just a case of shopping around.

I don't think it will have a large effect on LA Noire. It seems like Switch fans are interested in the game and I could see it doing well on Switch. On the other hand the PS4/X1 crowd have a lot of similar options and seem less interested. Will be interesting so see each platforms sales.

 

[DxD]

I really wish cartridge will get cheaper later on since disc sucks.
I hate hearing the mechanical spinning noise when installing or loading up.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

I really wish cartridge will get cheaper later on since disc sucks.
I hate hearing the mechanical spinning noise when installing or loading up.

Yeah, the less moving parts, the better chance of the system lasting a lot longer too. I've always been a cartridge / card fanboy. Next best thing to digital imo.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Don't you bring reason into this!

To be fair thanks to Nintendo generosity and how tiny the packages would be (physical Switch game boxes are huge compared to the carts they hold), the common wisdom seemed to be that Nintendo would eat the additional cost and that the cost difference versus super cheap plastic discs would be really really small... and there is still not a lot of data on minimum orders and turnaround time for Switch carts vs optical discs...

 

[SprachBrooks]

That flavouring they put on the cartridges themselves really adds to the costs as well.

A perfect metaphor to the bitter taste that paying more compared to others leaves in your mouth.

 

[Rellik]

What’s 60% more? 50c? $10? Blurays must be cheap as fuck.

There's a good post here about it

Zhuge's numbers make sense.

The actual third party costs on a serviced packaged (from stamp to ship) is going to be in the neighborhood of 9-12$. The costs of a serviced packaged for a 32GB card being ~60% put you on the upper bound of ~7-8$ added already just from that linear increase.

Because retail cut is also based on a flat percentage, not a flat number, the increased cost of the package at retail (say, marked up to 45-48$ from BRDVD $40), results in a ~1-4$ markup added for retailer cut.

$40+8+2 ~= 50$USD

I'm actually surprised that the 32GB Masked ROM is actually that cheap, or that the 8GB is flat with BRDVD stamping + serviced package costs. Nintendo has to be eating some losses on these ROMs to make that lower end 8GB parity make sense.

 

[NOTaStalk3r]

yet another reason to go all digital

 

[Diablohead]

Is this really a big problem though ? There are always plenty of deals around, as retailers fight for our money.

I've not paid full retail price yet for a Switch game, that's including Zelda and Mario Kart, both cost me £42 on day 1, even though the RRP was £60 over here. It's just a case of shopping around.

The £60 RRP is bullshit, any switch game over £40 is a full priced game.

 

[Fiendcode]

To be fair thanks to Nintendo generosity and how tiny the packages would be (physical Switch game boxes are huge compared to the carts they hold), the common wisdom seemed to be that Nintendo would eat the additional cost and that the cost difference versus super cheap plastic discs would be really really small... and there is still not a lot of data on minimum orders and turnaround time for Switch carts vs optical discs...

Nintendo is already eating costs if they're charging the same for an 8GB card as Sony and MS do a BRD.

I doubt minimum orders are much of an issue either given they weren't on 3DS and tiny boutique retail publishers like Nicalis, Nighthawk, Badland, Greybox, Dispatch, PM Studios, Inticreates and others are already publishing on Switch.

 

[CaptainofIndustry]

Interesting topic. Personally, I'll opt for the Switch physical version if it runs well enough. I'll pay the extra $10 to play this in portable mode. I know I can download it cheaper, but I'll get a discount from Best Buy and I like having a physical copy if possible. If anything, I'm appreciative of publishers bringing games like this to the Switch.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

When is somebody going to have the balls and price digital lower without worrying about retailers so much?

 

[Ridley327]

When is somebody going to have the balls and price digital lower without worrying about retailers so much?

This is what's happening with this game. It's going to be $40 digitally on all systems.

And it's already happened on the Switch with Puyo Puyo Tetris and is going to happen again with Rime.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

This is what's happening with this game. It's going to be $40 digitally on all systems.

And it's already happened on the Switch with Puyo Puyo Tetris and is going to happen again with Rime.

That's good, it was confusing after reading the tweets here though,

https://twitter.com/ZhugeEX/status/906053345206566912

 

[jorgejjvr]

Can't find the game anywhere to pre order on Amazon yet, and it already has a release date

 

[web_slinger_62]

Can't find the game anywhere to pre order on Amazon yet, and it already has a release date

https://www.rockstarwarehouse.com/s...k2rstar&productID=5132672400&themeID=38225800

It's weird that Amazon.ca has it but not Amazon.com

 

[KojiKnight]

As long as they keep the price different for digital and physical i don't see too much problem. Though it'd be better if devs are the cost or added some extras to the package.

 

[jorgejjvr]

https://www.rockstarwarehouse.com/s...k2rstar&productID=5132672400&themeID=38225800

It's weird that Amazon.ca has it but not Amazon.com

Straight through them? Thats different

Guess I'll keep waiting till hopefully appears on Amazon US

 

[foltzie1]

I'm curious if Nintendo is taking steps to respond to this, either by offering optimization services or considering pricing the cart manufacturing a bit more aggressively given the success they are seeing with the Switch.

Go for market penetration and not as much margin.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with this.

In fact, kudos to Rockstar for going this route instead or making physical buyers download most of the game or some stupid crap like that.

 

[The Giant]

Switch Tax doesn't exist in Australia. LA Norie is $90 for all consoles.

 

[coughlanio]

Funny enough, I think that two of their upcoming releases (Fire Emblem Warriors and Xenoblade 2) are going to use 16GB cards at a minimum. SMO will probably have no issues fitting onto an 8GB card, though.

Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if both of those games come in at 16GB or higher, and understandably so.

I'm super interested in what size DOOM and Wolfenstein II are going to come in at. I could see both easily using 32GB cards.

 

[Ridley327]

Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if both of those games come in at 16GB or higher, and understandably so.

I'm super interested in what size DOOM and Wolfenstein II are going to come in at. I could see both easily using 32GB cards.

Doom is already making you download the multiplayer separately, so I imagine that they will have found a way to get it down to 16GB. However, Wolfenstein II does not seem like it has an easy solution available.

 

[Fiendcode]

Funny enough, I think that two of their upcoming releases (Fire Emblem Warriors and Xenoblade 2) are going to use 16GB cards at a minimum. SMO will probably have no issues fitting onto an 8GB card, though.

Odyssey is only 5.7GB so you're right on the money. I also expect FEW at 16GB and XBC2 at 16GB or even 32GB.

Currently there's only 7 games known that are above 8GB: six at 16GB (Zelda BOTW, Just Dance 2017, Monster Hunter XX, One Piece UWR, Dragon Quest X, RE Revelations) and one at 32GB (DQ Heroes I & II).

I'm curious if Nintendo is taking steps to respond to this, either by offering optimization services or considering pricing the cart manufacturing a bit more aggressively given the success they are seeing with the Switch.

Go for market penetration and not as much margin.

I'm repeating myself here but Nintendo is already doing this. They're subsidizing rom prices by taking lower margins than PS and Xbox do. What's really going to drive down component prices are volumes, so hopefully Nintendo and 3rd parties start using bigger cards for their bigger sellers.

 

[Icarus]

Apparently the prices on Switch and PS4/X1 are basically the same if using an 8GB card.

This is true on $50/$60 releases. On lower cost releases ($29.99/$19.99), Sony and MS have royalty breaks that bring the COGs a bit lower (price banding). Nintendo has no similar flexibility. And the price scaling from 8 to 16 to 32 hurts. Big time. You won't see games on carts larger than 8GB for less than $60SRP I would predict. That said, I'm embracing my digital future for convenience sake as a player. Better experience for me and better for devs/pubs.

 

[UberTag]

Switch Tax doesn't exist in Australia. LA Norie is $90 for all consoles.

Switch tax doesn't exist in Canada, either... provided you order the game through VideoGamesPlus.ca.
Switch version of L.A. Noire is $49.99 CDN here... same as its PS4 and Xbox One counterparts.

 

[Ridley327]

Odyssey is only 5.7GB so you're right on the money. I also expect FEW at 16GB and XBC2 at 16GB or even 32GB.

Currently there's only 7 games known that are above 8GB: six at 16GB (Zelda BOTW, Just Dance 2017, Monster Hunter XX, One Piece UWR, Dragon Quest X, RE Revelations) and one at 32GB (DQ Heroes I & II).


I'm repeating myself here but Nintendo is already doing this. They're subsidizing rom prices by taking lower margins than PS and Xbox do. What's really going to drive down component prices are volumes, so hopefully Nintendo and 3rd parties start using bigger cards for their bigger sellers.

As we just found out yesterday on the European eShop, FEW is weighing in at 13.1 GB, so we have our second Nintendo game shipping on a 16GB card.

 

[YuriLowell]

So shouldn't the digital version be $10 dollars cheaper?

 

[UberTag]

As we just found out yesterday on the European eShop, FEW is weighing in at 13.1 GB, so we have our second Nintendo game shipping on a 16GB card.

That's surprisingly beefy given how economical Nintendo has been with most of their other published offerings outside of Breath of the Wild.
Makes me wonder what size Xenoblade Chronicles 2 will come in at.

 

[Fiendcode]

This is true on $50/$60 releases. On lower cost releases ($29.99/$19.99), Sony and MS have royalty breaks that bring the COGs a bit lower (price banding). Nintendo has no similar flexibility. And the price scaling from 8 to 16 to 32 hurts. Big time. You won't see games on carts larger than 8GB for less than $60SRP I would predict. That said, I'm embracing my digital future for convenience sake as a player. Better experience for me and better for devs/pubs.

There are already 8GB card releases at lower prices though like Lego City ($49.99) or Troll & I ($29.99!). RE Revelations Collection is also a 16GB card game at $39.99 so there may be more flexibility here than we've been led to believe. And on the other end of the spectrum using 1-2GB cards (likely equivalent to budget pricing on PS/XB) hasn't stopped games like Puyo Puyo Tetris, Cave Story+ or Axiom Verge from charging premiums on Switch anyway. Clearly we're not getting the full picture here.

That said yes from what we know, like DS and 3DS before it, Switch per unit media price is set by capacity and volume, where as disc based platforms are set by MSRP and volume.

As we just found out yesterday on the European eShop, FEW is weighing in at 13.1 GB, so we have our second Nintendo game shipping on a 16GB card.

Also notable in that this is a 3rd party game in Japan.