And then use that system to kill him?
Clever.
The best system has already been used to defeat him anyway.
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(Lack of) General Consensus: Best JRPG battle system ever?
- Thread starter redfox088
- Start date
Clever.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
Really didn't expect to see such an overwhelming show of support for Beyond the Beyond, but what can be said that hasn't been said already?
You must be reading the wrong thread.
Clearly we've all agreed that Hydlide NES's system is the absolute pinnacle of the genre.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Turn-based:
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Cosmic Star Heroine
Kiseki games
Action:
Souls games (if they count)
Dragon's Dogma (ditto)
Ys
In-between:
None, these systems are an abomination
Panzer Dragoon Saga
Cosmic Star Heroine
Kiseki games
Action:
Souls games (if they count)
Dragon's Dogma (ditto)
Ys
In-between:
None, these systems are an abomination
Well I don't know how everyone else feels about these choices, but I found these the most engaging and rewarding:
Legend of Dragoon (perfect timing of hits to get damage so you are always on your toes)
Chrono Cross (Especially when you get the cross or the final fight to get the elements to play correctly to defeat the boss for the true ending)
Chrono Trigger (Simple and flawless)
Super Mario RPG (Often overlooked, but a lot of clever gameplay exists in this gem)
Valkyira Chronicles(Only SRPG I have completed and enjoyed)
Those are probably the 5 best I have touched, and that's with Persona 4 and Persona 5 being completed by me. P4/P5 once you figure out the flow of elmental roulette, knock down, gang up, etc it is fairly stale. Granted P5 mixed that up with more options thankfully, but even then it isn't anywhere near as compelling or engaging for dozens of hours like the others I mentioned were for me.
Legend of Dragoon (perfect timing of hits to get damage so you are always on your toes)
Chrono Cross (Especially when you get the cross or the final fight to get the elements to play correctly to defeat the boss for the true ending)
Chrono Trigger (Simple and flawless)
Super Mario RPG (Often overlooked, but a lot of clever gameplay exists in this gem)
Valkyira Chronicles(Only SRPG I have completed and enjoyed)
Those are probably the 5 best I have touched, and that's with Persona 4 and Persona 5 being completed by me. P4/P5 once you figure out the flow of elmental roulette, knock down, gang up, etc it is fairly stale. Granted P5 mixed that up with more options thankfully, but even then it isn't anywhere near as compelling or engaging for dozens of hours like the others I mentioned were for me.
Is this a new level of sarcasm?
Super Sayarcasm Level 5 Blue & Black?
True story: Beyond the Beyond was the first game I ever took back to Electronics Boutique and asked to get a full refund for.
OuterLimits
Member
Shadow Hearts 2 really is a damn good game. Crazy plot, awesome music and fun battle system. The only negative is the game lacks much of a challenge.
In terms of turn based systems. I'll have to give it to Final Fantasy X-2, it perfected the already fantastic system present in FFX to fucking perfection, whilst I enjoyed the lack of an ATB bar in FFX, I thought that the inclusion of it in FFX-2 rectified the lack of variety during FFXs endgame where everything devolved into attack, attack, and more attacks.
I don't think you get what pokemon does at all. Almost all of your complaints also serve for smt games too and yet you compare both series.
To Far Away Times
Member
Bravely Default has got a great battle system.
AmaterasuOkami076
Member
Tales of Graces F by a fair distance in my opinion. Say what you want about the game, but that battle system was fucking slick and so customisable. Perfection.
Lights and Waves
Member
X-2 and Lightning Returns
Hibiki Kurosawa
Member
From what I can remember off the top of my head, my votes would have to be Press Turn and Resonance of Fates battle system. I also love FFXII's gambit system. Being a programmer it feels like I'm half-programming my party members myself.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Bravely Default combat system together with the way the job system works is just
Matrix XII
Member
FFX
FFXII
SMT IV
Tales of Vesperia
FFXII
SMT IV
Tales of Vesperia
Karsticles
Member
Chrono Trigger x Final Fantasy Tactics x Shadow Hearts x Grandia would be the ultimate battle system. People seem to like Press Turn for some reason, so you could throw that in.
yanipheonu
Member
That Persona 5 Battle System tho. So snappy and stylish. My personal favorite.
FFX and Bravely Default are also pretty awesome.
Baten Kaitos Origins' Relay Combo system was hugely underrated. Way too fun to play.
FFX and Bravely Default are also pretty awesome.
Baten Kaitos Origins' Relay Combo system was hugely underrated. Way too fun to play.
Turn-Based: SMT games (especially DDS), bonus points if there's a rush/auto attack option
Semi-Action: Final Fantasy (Gambits ftw)
Action Based: Star Ocean 2 (stupid but fun)
Card-based: Lost Kingdoms 2
I bet it's easier to fully understand quantum theory: Vagrant Story
SRPG: Disgaea (so.much.fun)
I most enjoy obtuse battle system where you have to (or atleast are rewarded when you do) really invest some time in learning them, like the afore mentioned Vagrant Story, Xenosaga 2 or Valkyrie Profile 2. The worst are slow, turn based ones without a rush option.
Semi-Action: Final Fantasy (Gambits ftw)
Action Based: Star Ocean 2 (stupid but fun)
Card-based: Lost Kingdoms 2
I bet it's easier to fully understand quantum theory: Vagrant Story
SRPG: Disgaea (so.much.fun)
I most enjoy obtuse battle system where you have to (or atleast are rewarded when you do) really invest some time in learning them, like the afore mentioned Vagrant Story, Xenosaga 2 or Valkyrie Profile 2. The worst are slow, turn based ones without a rush option.
Psychoward
Banned
In between as in stuff like real time with pause? Cause that's throwing a lot of amazing games under the bus (admittedly most of which are wrpgs)
StrategyFan
Member
i find my enjoyment of a jrpg battle system has more to do with the difficulty/balance and how little i have to grind levels and less to do with what the exact mechanics are like
I have Dragon Quarter so I should probably give that game a go soon. Does it require any previous knowledge of the Breath of Fire series?
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Until you get to the hard bosses and is about buff the fuck out of Lightning and debuff the fuck out of enemies, just like in the past games.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Yup. Can't stand RTwP systems whatsoever. Menu-based "action" games are also pretty horrible.
Nope, actually it's better not having played any other BOF before.
Green Mamba
Member
Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
Numbers are small, non-randomized, and effect each other in linear and logical ways--an attack of "2" hitting an enemy with a defense of "1" will make the attack do "1" damage--causing every single number of health, attack, and defense have actual real meaning. Enemies have considerable variation in how they act and how they react to your attacks. Everything is fast and snappy and no battle overstays its welcome. The Badge system grants Mario complete and total customization allowing the player to come up with a myriad of strategies to get through the game. The partners are all pretty well balanced adding to the player's versatility in battle. Tying the audience into the Star power (super meter, essentially) gives the battles an extra edge, making it just as much about wowing an audience as it is about defeating opponents, the hidden "Stylish" action commands granting further control to the player in this field. The audience themselves are even more than just a simple visual feedback for your super meter--each member of the audience has their own quirks and personalities, giving each battle a distinct character unto itself.
And that's all really just scratching the surface. The Thousand Year Door's battle system hits on all fronts and it's a shame it was completely abandoned since.
hydrophilic attack
Member
souls
I'm confused by this.
What is particularly random about Press Turn?
You get a bonus if you critical hit. You get a penalty if you miss. You are penalized if the enemy critical, benefited if the enemy misses. This is the same for any game that allows you to miss and to critical.
Now the rewards and the penalties are steeper, in that you lose and gain turns. You in no way need to rely on critical to gain turns and you can't have more than eight turns so the rewards are bounded. Similarly, the miss rate is not ridiculously high and you can only lose four turns.
Unless you mean something else, I think you are massively overstating this "flaw." It isn't an RNG-fest.
Especially considering that the main way to get extra turns is to find and attack weaknesses, which is something the player does control.
Or is this meant to be about demon conversations? In a lot of SMT games, the demon's do have minimally variable personalities and you can figure them out from personality cues.
...
But probing for weaknesses, figuring them out, and exploiting them is bad combat? Running into trouble because you try something that doesn't work first is bad combat? This sounds like good combat to me.
I'm having trouble figuring out where your memorization complaint comes in. Is it that with the right approach things are much, much easier and potentially trivial if you ferret out all the tools the game offers, i.e. that the good case is too good?
I understand that complaint with respect to, say, playing Persona past the point where you know that, to which every enemy in a room is weak. The thing is, Persona tends to be fairly ruthlessly paced in terms of leveling up and moving on to new enemy sets. It is a lot staler and a lot more rote on, say, a new game + run, especially in Persona 5 where ambushing is ridiculously easy and you no longer have the demon conversation wrench to throw into the works.
But I really don't understand this sort of complaint leveled at Press Turn proper. It isn't as easy to completely wipe out the enemy in one turn without an enemy attack, at least if we are not talking low-level trash encounters, which I don't know why we would be. You don't have as many potential turns. You don't have all-out attacks. You don't have money-begging as an easy out (unless you currently own all the enemy demons).
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
WaterAstro
Member
Grandia 2, as already mentioned.
DreamedLint
Member
Grandia for sure. Of the Press Turn SMT systems, Digital Devil Saga (especially 2) has the most depth. Allowing you to not only exploit enemy weaknesses, but also take away their turns with defensive moves if you can predict their patterns.
All the Pokemon posts are baffling. Pokemon has one of the most rudimentary and tedious turn based combat systems I've ever played. Trying to go back to them renders me nearly comatose.
All the Pokemon posts are baffling. Pokemon has one of the most rudimentary and tedious turn based combat systems I've ever played. Trying to go back to them renders me nearly comatose.
Kingdom Hearts 2 easily then or Nier Automata.
They have cool combat that i would gladly have in future JRPG's if classic turn based is going away.
I do like turn based but it think it's slowly being phased out by the looks of it so that's why i am hopin for KH or platinum/souls games combat.
A shame FFXV just did not copy KH2 or 3's development combat hopefully FFXVI does sort of but in a Final Fantasy way.
They have cool combat that i would gladly have in future JRPG's if classic turn based is going away.
I do like turn based but it think it's slowly being phased out by the looks of it so that's why i am hopin for KH or platinum/souls games combat.
A shame FFXV just did not copy KH2 or 3's development combat hopefully FFXVI does sort of but in a Final Fantasy way.
yanipheonu
Member
As someone who's dabbled in competitive Pokemon, the phrase "complexity in simplicity" comes to mind.
Being forced to choose only one move out of four actually leads to some tricky manuevring of who to switch out and when.
phantasmic_glaive
Member
Yup. I pretty much played every RPG out there and till this day, no RPG combat system comes close to potential of Legend of Legaia's fighting system.
So, you have: up (high attack), down (low attack), left and right (punch). You go through the game in old school jrpg fashion finding secret scrolls that contain super moves.
Starting off you, in combat you can input up, down, up(for example). He'll do high, low, high attacks until you find a scroll that has those inputs for a super combo. After that, up, down, up will execute a different combo ending in a super move.
Early on your combo meter is small, but as you level up it gets bigger. You also don't NEED scrolls to find different combos. You can also experiment to find hyper combos.
It also has a mechanic similar to Pokémon, where your magic armlet can capture monsters and use them as summons. Dope ass summon moves too!
Ahh... this is one of my favorite games of all time, like top 10 for me. This needs a revival bad, or re-release.
https://youtu.be/jfi9SjEz3Gw
You should play the first one if you haven't, same good battle system, but not (as) bogged down by a mediocre plot and characters. Legend of Legaia is legit one of my favorite games, I would kill for another entry that's closer to the first.
Aaronrules380
Member
try playing competitively on Pokemon Showdown and then come back to me
phantasmic_glaive
Member
Yeeessss!!
This is a fight of one of the hardest bosses in the game, crap quality but it can give people an idea of how it works.
https://youtu.be/CLuyIPfNGKk
DreamedLint
Member
Just curious, how does Legend og Legaia's combat system compare to Xenogears'? I've only played the latter, and I liked the button combos but it really just boiled down to a dps race with some stylish animations. (The gear fights were a bit better) Is Legaia's combat more purposeful, or is it closer to what I experienced with Xenogears?
Neoleo2143
Member
We're not necessarily talking about the Single Player Game's depth and exploration of said depth but the multiplayer and the rabbit hole goes pretty deep in both the metagame and the in battle execution where mind games, setting up combos and defenses, chipping down foes, using status effects, managing strengths, weaknesses and health, numerous environment and weather conditions and so on and on are all often viable strategies that are made incredibly dynamic through the presence of another player who is almost always aiming to beat you.