-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Lara Croft can't swim in the reboot? The hell? + Regen health - 12/15 hr SP
- Thread starter NotTheGuyYouKill
- Start date
Escalation
Member
Tomb Raider isn't the same if I can't panic as I run out of air lost in some underwater cave.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
I don't know how the other versions are, but I finished the PS3 version of Anniversary last week, and I found it to be pretty bad compared to Legend and Underworld due to the sloppy controls, wonky camera and awful input lag.
Still not as bad as AoD though.
Mr. B Natural
Member
I'm tired of master-of-none games. There are way too many of them and the excuses required to give them a pass in the year 2012 are getting harder and harder to swallow. So, getting rid of swimming is fine. Regen health...meh, it depends on how its approached and how the game's pace and design works with it. However, I have no hope for a "real and serious" Tomb Raider game. Talk about missing what little point the series had.
And, yes, now a goofy Tomb Raider will never fly, which is a great indication to give the series a rest, not recreate it completely from scratch with the name thrown in for good measure.
And, yes, now a goofy Tomb Raider will never fly, which is a great indication to give the series a rest, not recreate it completely from scratch with the name thrown in for good measure.
NullPointer
Member
I'm starting to feel old when I want a Tomb Raider game where you're in isolation almost the entire time, with no fixed objectives, and only a pistol/shotgun to be used when you royally fucked up and pissed off a cougar or something. Just as I dream of an Assassin's Creed game where you only kill your contracted targets, and not entire armies at a time.
These are the games I'd want to play anyway.
well epic mickey 2 had added underwater sections
Nabs
Member
That would be amazing.
MulderWasTaken
Member
So people are also pissed that it has a magical health regeneration. So, what part of using a med-kit to heal a bullet wound is not magical? What is in that med-kit that can heal a cracked rib in seconds? In the other games you had plenty of med-kits and while in fight and being damaged you could heal with a med-kit instantly, kind of cheating a little bit. I don't get what's all the fuzz about.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
This makes me want to protect Laura by keeping her away from that awful boat!
If I don't recover my health the natural way, like how finding a rib roast in a trash can cures my gunshot wounds, my immersion in the game is destroyed.
lightchris
Member
People don't like regenerative health because of what it means for gameplay and immersion (not so much because it's unrealistic). The differences in gameplay have already been discussed. And I find it more immersive too if you have to care about your wounds to at least some degree and are discouraged to waste your health.
Yeah, that's why in a survival based game it should take a little while to heal yourself, during which you are defenseless. Many games do (or did) this.
Net_Wrecker
Member
Talk about missing the point. Regenerating health makes for a complete change in the way a game is designed and played, especially when this was supposed to be a "survival" game. Where's the tension in "surviving" when you can just hide behind the next chest high wall and get better?
Ugh, it's not about being "magical" or "realistic". It's about gameplay mechanics. With med-kits your healing "abilities" are limited and you have to seek for new med-kits and manage your resources. Health regeneration allows you to simply duck behind a cover whenever you want and wait for full recovery.
Also, as others mentioned before, it allows lazy design. With health regeneration game designers don't have to take into account whether or not player has enough health at this moment; because he will always have full health, or will always be able to simply stay for a while and heal.
DAM that sounds awesomeYes and before that concept art and details were released when it was originally going to be a very different project. It was originally about lara marooned on a Japenese island that she could explore. The island was inhabitad by strange creatures from japenese folklore. It was open world with metroidvania elements and it would have had a survival horror slant.
Then somewhere along the way they decided to just make an uncharted clone
s_mirage
Member
It seems as if people who don't get what the fuss is about are trying to paint the objection to regenerating health as one regarding realism. Realism isn't the problem, immersion and character vunerability are. If the game is supposed to heavily play on the idea of survival, having the character simply being able to recover by kneeling behind a wall for a few seconds breaks the feeling of vunerability, and the need to be precise and careful in dangerous situations, far more than having to find a med pack does. Why play to survive in a survival game if you can act as a bullet sponge yet suffer no consequences?
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
We did not play the same game.
Boaty McBoatface
Member
why the hell, didn't we get this O.O
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
You are getting it. Probably.
Like Uncharted, Lara will face some out-of-nowhere plot twist that will have monsters similar to those. Words my mark.
maquiladora
Member
.
Laura? Is that the WiiU version?
encephalon
Member
Regen health was used in SIREN for PS2 and that game can be pretty brutal. It was absolutely a "survival" game. Just sayin'.
Glass Rebel
Member
No, Wii U has a railshooter featuring Tara Croft, Lara's long lost twin.
j0hnny_385
Member
The first time I saw this game (Game Informer's reveal) I was so psyhced but after all this time...I couldn't care less. Seems that Squenix/Crystal Dynamics are all about marketing hype and Internet omnipresence with little or no show show of the actual gameplay and design process.
I just don't care anymore...
I just don't care anymore...
Haha, reminds me of this quote: "I'm not immortal. Though, since I'm still alive, that's just a theory at this point."
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
No, that's LiiUra Craft.
Not following the game. But if they do it like that, they are doing it right.
I found the Nirolak post about potential multiplayer for this game. The health regen mechanic could be argued to fit such a direction:
Seemingly has multiplayer.
Source: http://www.gamasutra.com/jobs/
Source: http://jobs.gamasutra.com/jobseekerx/viewjobrss.asp?cjid=24628&accountno=61772
Source: http://jobs.gamasutra.com/jobseekerx/viewjobrss.asp?cjid=24630&accountno=61772
Glass Rebel
Member
I remember how close to the PR material Brütal Legend was.
Not an example, which helps your case.
Yes, the marketing of Brutal Legend is an incredibly common case on how video game marketing actually works.
Glass Rebel
Member
Deus Ex: Human Revolution had people freaking out before the beta leaked. Incidentally, it's from the same pub.
Corleth the Fey
Member
And this is your argument? I know lets list all those publishers that have released great games and terrible games - ohh - like Square Enix remember Mindjack on the 360, or even Pony Friends 2 which is permanently glued into my DS slot. Wait I'm talking rubbish!
The marketing for this game so far and the short demo I played of it at Eurogamer should have anyone wanting a real Tomb Raider game running for the hills. If it's Uncharted with a girl you want then it's looking good.
Unless you know anymore about this game than what we've been shown already - then spill the beans. Cause if not - you can in no way shape or form continue your argument that it's going to be all right really can you? If it's really something else, then it's about time they stepped up and proved it.
I love how serious the stick figure face is in the other panel, like he's really explaining an important fact. lol
It's still important to note that I don't think as far as I'm concerned I'm judging whether the game will be "shit." We're judging that the game is not even remotely like past TR games, that it might as well be in a different franchise it is so little related to the series strengths. That's what is disappointing to me, because there is no other game on the market that plays even close to the traditional TR formula. And this is absolutely something you can judge from interviews, gameplay videos and a NYCC 2012 demo.
Tomb Raider series still needed a few more fixes to return to glory, and they were almost there again with Underworld (camera problems, combat problems remain), but now we've become Uncharted Tomb Raider with "survival elements" and it's a little just disappointing for those of us who loved the series for being what it was
Glass Rebel
Member
No, I'm just saying that PR material, especially when they've been saying that they haven't shown everything, isn't a great indicator for the quality or direction of a game.
Corleth the Fey
Member
Of course, so why not show the Tomb Raider the Tomb Raider fans want? No one else is listening right now. Sure pretend it's an action cinematic gun fest a week before launch when they need Jonny Mainstream to think about buying it. Instead they're just pissing off anyone who actually gives a damn. And they've got history in doing this with their other games. What is wrong with them?
Maybe they think it's working - but it seems to me that their games are barely selling enough copies. Absolutely everything Square Enix has released recently has been price slashed to oblivion within weeks of release. This is pretty good evidence of them expecting mega sales, making far too much inventory, then having to give it away when they don't hit the targets.
You can't deny that every little slip of information that comes our way looks bad. When is that flow going to reverse? When are Square Enix's incredible brand managers going to start showing us the good stuff? At what point do we stop believing that it's going to be all right and start worrying? You're not there yet, obliviously. But this no swimming news - it's hit me hard. I've stopped believing, my hopes have faded. And even if they turn this around, it's left me with a bad taste in my mouth and a heavy heart. Is that what Square Enix wants? Because if they've got someone telling them this is all right, then they are listening to the wrong people.
That's true... if you only get your information from TV ads.
Previews have always talked about its strategy elements and they even released multiplayer tutorial videos that were entirely about stage battles.
Glass Rebel
Member
Yeah, it's not exactly a secret that the Square-Enix Europe marketing department is rather... odd for lack of a better euphemism. I already said it earlier in the thread but I think they painted very different pictures of Deus Ex and Hitman before release. I'm not saying Tomb Raider will be the best game ever or even close to classic Tomb Raider in anything but name but I don't think it's sensible to make wide assumptions about a game based on controlled PR material.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for judging trailers and interviews but from my point of view they rarely show how the whole game will pan out, whether it's better than shown or actually worse.
I think that pretty common with game PR. Fans of a series (like Tomb Raider) will buy the game anyway, so the advertising is mostly aimed at non-fans.
Actually I could because that's just an opinion.
Though to be fair I was never imagining the game to be S.T.A.L.K.E.R. or anything, I think they were always aiming more for something like Batman: Arkham Asylum.
I just think this is more of a case of bad advertising than a bad game.
This.
I'm as worried as anyone about the gameplay but some of the hyperbole and jumping to conclusion is hilarious.
how about taking a relaxed attitute untill we have seen substantial parts of the game and not just the beginning and some PR speak?
we can talk about what we don't like of what we've seen without making definitive statements about the final quality of the game.
SolidSnakex
Member
People will look at this game the same way that they did with Deus Ex. The news on that for a while sounded bad, but they eventually showed stuff and convinced people that there wasn't anything to worry about. If CD can do that with this game then people will change their views. But right now they aren't doing that. And it's going to be hard to get fans to accept regen health and no swimming in a TR game.
denshuu
Member
It's not coming out for Wii U. At least, they're not developing it for Wii U right now. Maybe it'll get a port job somewhere down the line or something.
Corleth the Fey
Member
Yes, your argument this entire thread has been that marketing is pointless. In this case, I agree. A pointless money wasting exercise for Square Enix.
Instead of having Tomb Raider fans great word of mouth and trickle down effect, they'll have the twisted lies of paid up shills like Wainwright, inaccurate major gaming website 'previews' and brand managers back pedalling like crazy - whilst desperately trying to keep the truth about what the game is really like away from their 'valued' customers eyes.
Because that what marketing is isn't it - lies. Square Enix are paying to have someone lie to us. Bully for them.
NullPointer
Member
Dear God no.
If true, millions of dollars spent to develop a multiplayer element that will keep people playing for three more days. And due to budget costs, things like swimming get left out!
Similar threads
- Locked