Ganzlinger
Member
A disastrous economic policy is what fuck the poor people, which is exactly what PT is doing. Anyway thinking that PT cares more about the poor is ridiculous. They are just demagogic.
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Large protests occurring in Brazil. Calling for President Rousseff to resign
- Thread starter ShinRPGamer
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PastorOfMuppets
Banned
My knowledge of Brazil is rooted in the many Brazilians I've run into through my training in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and almost without fail every single one of them has nothing but bad things to say of their government. I figure it's gotta be bad when you're willing to leave a country with weather like a Brazil to come to a country with weather like Canada.
A Brazilian friend of mine recently got his Engineering degree here and was looking for a job for over a year before he found something. I asked if he considered going back to Brazil and his response was "Why? My country sucks."
A Brazilian friend of mine recently got his Engineering degree here and was looking for a job for over a year before he found something. I asked if he considered going back to Brazil and his response was "Why? My country sucks."
I voted for her last election (well, it was between her and Aecio, can't be faulted on that).
I'm worried about the power vacuum that will be created if/when she is impeached. Seems like the PMDB will just seize even more power, which can only be bad for the country. I believe it is necessary for her to be ousted, but everyone should embrace for the political debate to become a lot more heated. The PT can play the opposition game like no one else in Brazil. I don't see a way out of this political storm in the next ~5 years, at least.
I'm worried about the power vacuum that will be created if/when she is impeached. Seems like the PMDB will just seize even more power, which can only be bad for the country. I believe it is necessary for her to be ousted, but everyone should embrace for the political debate to become a lot more heated. The PT can play the opposition game like no one else in Brazil. I don't see a way out of this political storm in the next ~5 years, at least.
Hope things change for the better for them.
What the hell is that duck doing there? It's really amusing that I seem to see that duck everywhere now:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_Duck_(sculpture)
What the hell is that duck doing there? It's really amusing that I seem to see that duck everywhere now:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber_Duck_(sculpture)
The Hermit
Member
Lol this is the best IMG in this thread.
But yeah, the political discussion here is a mess and both sides are grey AF. Dilma staying or leaving won't solve half the problems.
In the meantime, everyone is losing money and the country is getting poorer.
What country is that, if you don't mind?
Everything that is happening is pretty new in Brazil and I have a brother with the same rhetoric as Platy.
I really like this kind of discussion, because until recently very few people actually cared about politics in our country.
It's rough and too passionate, but it's a beggining to a better country.
Here is a very interesting article ( in Portuguese) about what's going on :
http://brasil.elpais.com/m/brasil/2016/03/09/opinion/1457530962_847993.html
It's from one of the industry organizations in São Paulo. There's an expression in Brazil that says "eu não vou pagar o pato" (literally translating, "I won't pay for the duck" lol). It means that we won't pay for a screw up of someone else, and the organization is using to tell that we won't pay to fix the government issues caused by corruption, as one of the government measures to "improve" our economy is raising the taxes.
Indeed. With Dilma's impeachment, congress' opposition would settle down, at least in the short term, and whoever takes office would probably have an easier time trying to set the economy back on track. However, I'd imagine that this scenario could severely wane the protests, since they are fueled, almost entirely, by middle-class people dissatisfied with the economic recession. And if Dilma stays... well, nothing's changed (a priori, at least).
Either way, Brazil's major problems (health care, education, social inequality, violence, etc) would remain unaddressed.
I've read something earlier about "biased posts" on this thread. Well, check one of BBC's takes on it.
Audience grows and São Paulo-based protest gets abadás*, a VIP area and Bon Jovi cover band
According to this article, people were complaining that only foreign cover songs were being played. The organizer says: "DROP THE NATIONAL ANTHEM, DJ!". Google Translate it for more laughs.
A protest with a VIP area? It's kinda hard to defend that, to be quite honest.
* oh, yeah: abadás are themed t-shirts people get when they pay for access to some goodies during Carnaval. Thnk of those as VIP area wristbands.
Audience grows and São Paulo-based protest gets abadás*, a VIP area and Bon Jovi cover band
According to this article, people were complaining that only foreign cover songs were being played. The organizer says: "DROP THE NATIONAL ANTHEM, DJ!". Google Translate it for more laughs.
A protest with a VIP area? It's kinda hard to defend that, to be quite honest.
* oh, yeah: abadás are themed t-shirts people get when they pay for access to some goodies during Carnaval. Thnk of those as VIP area wristbands.
This has been my impression, which is why you see some really odd things, but I think they do come from the novelty of it all, it really seems its the first time you have ever protested.
I remember back in the 2013 protests, which I think were bigger, many of my friends posting facebook selfies with hashtags, but they were just posing in the protest, like if it was some random party, it felt just very odd to me. Same with stuff like the "panelazos", making noise with cooking pots is about protesting because "you are hungry" so to speak, it's about protesting against inequality or poverty, but here it's done when you don't like that the president is talking on TV.
I'm not surprised about things like that VIP area or the giant duck, but I don't think you can dismiss the discontent just because of those. My impression is that the Left has monopolized protests and political activism until now, with the same recycled discourse that the rest of Latinamerica's left has, and that it has made a complete mess in several countries. So of course they now are kind of dumbfounded, in some people's mind is like if you are not poor yo cannot protest, for some reason.
Maintenance
Member
This friday (18th) the pro-government groups will make their protests. I wonder how much they'll pay for people to go this time.
you have no idea what you're talking about, please shut up.
Yet.
Well, I've also seen reports of this thing happening on the opposition side last year, so let's avoid calling the pot kettle black here.
I've seen, personally, lots of people from these pro-government protests going to the avenue for just a few minutes and then proceeding to the closest bar to drink beer all afternoon. They still wear the "CUT" jackets even while just getting drunk, I'm not sure they come from a faraway city or location just to spend a few minutes there and get drunk during the rest of the time.
And what of the people bringing bottles of bubbly? Seriously: it's always good to put things in perspective.
Might not be TOTALY rich people because it is a huge amount of people (still less than gay parade and look how much our country loves gays =P) but it was a lot of rich people (for reference lots of people call this newspaper "foxlha")
for example :
more than 63% won more than 5 minimum wage salary (mimum wage being R$880), which means a salary of R$4400
And of 63%, 37% have more than 10 minimum wage salary, which means R$8800.
For reference I live in a 3 rooms apartment with other 2 people in a good place in one of the richest cities on the São Paulo state and all my monthly expenses (not considering food since it changes wildly) is R$627
Also, the same link says that 500000 people were on the São Paulo city street that day ..
It is not THAT much =P
Also, FUCKING GAY PARADE has more people and where is Lei João Nery and the law criminalizing homophobia ?
for example :
more than 63% won more than 5 minimum wage salary (mimum wage being R$880), which means a salary of R$4400
And of 63%, 37% have more than 10 minimum wage salary, which means R$8800.
For reference I live in a 3 rooms apartment with other 2 people in a good place in one of the richest cities on the São Paulo state and all my monthly expenses (not considering food since it changes wildly) is R$627
Also, the same link says that 500000 people were on the São Paulo city street that day ..
It is not THAT much =P
Also, FUCKING GAY PARADE has more people and where is Lei João Nery and the law criminalizing homophobia ?
Maintenance
Member
If you have proof of people being paid to be on those other protests feel free to share, no one is prohibiting that.
While I never said anyone was being paid, the girl taking care of the kids was totaly being paid and you know it ;D
Might not be TOTALY rich people because it is a huge amount of people (still less than gay parade and look how much our country loves gays =P) but it was a lot of rich people (for reference lots of people call this newspaper "foxlha")
for example :
more than 63% won more than 5 minimum wage salary (mimum wage being R$880), which means a salary of R$4400
And of 63%, 37% have more than 10 minimum wage salary, which means R$8800.
For reference I live in a 3 rooms apartment with other 2 people in a good place in one of the richest cities on the São Paulo state and all my monthly expenses (not considering food since it changes wildly) is R$627
Also, the same link says that 500000 people were on the São Paulo city street that day ..
It is not THAT much =P
Also, FUCKING GAY PARADE has more people and where is Lei João Nery and the law criminalizing homophobia ?
LOTS of people make fun of Folha being recently biased to the government, I have never seen anyone calling it Foxlha lmao. Actually, I've seen a lot of people calling it "Foice (sickle) de São Paulo". Anyway, Datafolha always lower the numbers for the anti-government protesters, a group hired an international company to track IP addresses of people there and there was 1 and a half million there according to this company tracking, quite similar to the police counting.
And yes, in Sao Paulo you're going to get a lot of people that earns more than the minimum wage, as you have a really higher living costs there, even higher than other cities in the same state.
And it's interesting that your montlhy costs are smaller than what I pay for rent in a neighbouring city (R$750,00, that already really cheap compared to what people use to pay around here). You can't rent anything decent in São Paulo for less than a R$1.000,00 come on. You only pay less because you share it with 3 other people.
WTF ?
Most of the ridiculous amount of "apesar da crise " meme (headlines saying that some industry goes well "despite the economic crysis" ... which gets kinda weird when EVERYTHING goes well "despite the economic crysis") was on Folha !
Enter their homepage you see the main headline about the Lula investigations, "dilma will be run over" ... FUCKING KIM "I am the boss of the psdb youth" KATAGUIRI is a Folha weekly writer !
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/colunas/kim-kataguiri/
And lots of other writers ... maybe not Duvivier but he got his place for being a comedian =P
Regarding the "despite the crysis", it's the stupidiest thing ever when hundreds of factories are closing and unemployment rises everyday. I feel bad for friends that are let go from companies and have to read people dismissing the crysis.
I think that people exagerate when they call Folha pro-government, but calling it a right wing media is also ridiculous. Just showing that in different groups there are different opinions about media sites than others
. The writers there are pretty balanced (just taking a quick look, there's Juca Kfouri, Gregorio Duvivier and Guilherme Boulos). There's hardly anything there that are not facts, and they tend to present things in way less aggressive stances than other journals.And Katagiri is an idiot.
You are talking about a country who never arrested ANYONE for violation of human rights or anything like that after the 20+ years of military dictatorship FULL of censorship and torture.
We don't need operation condor to have violence and political opression here =P
Maintenance
Member
Calling Folha right wing is the same as saying that Bernie Sanders is a Republican.
Keep digging though =P
Keep digging though =P
That was true for a lot of South America, though. The bargain at the end of the dictatorships was largely "you don't have to fight a civil war to get democracy back, but we get immunity from prosecution," whether that was a bargain explicitly established or it just sort of fell out that way (like Pinochet pardoning himself), it traded full justice for peace, similar to resolutions in South Africa and Liberia.
The trouble is, not having gone to jail, that these people are still around.
I find it bizarre that, while the insane right tries to discredit Trump protests in the US, an increasingly small part of the left tries to discredit significantly larger, peaceful, varied protests in Brazil.
It's not a good look. It's not a good look at all. And no amount of "=P" changes the misleading shit I'm seeing in this thread.
It's not a good look. It's not a good look at all. And no amount of "=P" changes the misleading shit I'm seeing in this thread.
Anyway, I'll just agree to disagree with people that discredit the protests. I believe it was a great thing and I hope for better things for us in the future. I won't change my mind, pro government people or concerned with the results won't change theirs, so let me just drop this video from John Oliver where he explains a little bit about what's happening here (and the video is quite outdated, lots of people were arrested after it, more evidence was found and the economy is even worse):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crSTOmBdmNo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crSTOmBdmNo
Maintenance
Member
I said that would happen in the first page. In the end, just shrug and move on.
I agree with the reasoning that takes people to the streets (unsatisfied with the current President, fed up with corruption and similar scandals), but I don't buy incoherence.
I simply cannot stand the double-standard of ignoring people asking for military intervention, championing other politicians and parties (some of them with huge representation on Congress, btw) that are as dirty as the target of the current protest and stuff like that.
Sure, yesterday's event had some of them booed off, but it took a hell of a long time for a part of that people to understand these incoherences.
There are small minorities asking for insane stuff in every side.
EDIT: More info regarding the huge duck: There's even a site related to this duck thing, saying how much taxes we pay for every product here. Take a look: http://www.naovoupagaropato.com.br/imposto-por-produto/
Even if true, the more reason to drive them off your parade (metaphorically speaking), right? If people did that with politicians, why not with the "bring back military rule" jerks? Ignoring them while having the chance of driving them off - even because incitation to civil vs. military unrest is a crime - says" conivence"...
Or, worse, "agreement". Even if you don't. Do you want these freaks by your side?
Jean Valjean
Member
Last picture, promisse
#Team Capitain America
#Stark Out
Well, they're right.
I laughed.
We wish it was. Could have even won
perfect timing for the olympics
Come to protest with us. Honestly, I have my doubts about the olympics since, as far as I know, they haven't finished a lot of things for the event and you can't delay the whole event. Add the bad economy and it's one big mess that's brewing.
You are putting a ridiculous onus on a protest with millions of people.
Policing whatever fringe wings comes from a gathering of millions of people is not anyone's responsibility during the protest.
By the way, connivence does not mean what you think it means in English. And no, it does not say that.
You are doing precisely what is ALWAYS done across the world to diminish and dismiss protests. From the US civil rights, to 20 centavos in 2013, to Chicago last week and all around Brazil yesterday: Laser focus on the bad apples, ignore the context of the good, and assume the protest is made null and void by the convenient straw man setup. It won't work -- and it won't work on this particular case even moreso, because the data overwhelmingly does not support the narrative. People are unhappy and fed up across the country, across income levels, and across political leanings.
I would agree with you if there any considerable amount of people asking for militar intervention there.
First off, one of the meanings of "to connive" is "to give assent or encouragement". I meant to say "consent", way to try to discredit me for using the word you didn't want.
Second, if you consider that huge of an effort saying "dude, your agenda isn't at stake here, leave" (if it works or not is totally beside the point) to someone carrying a sign that goes against the protest's focus, you're consenting to that by omission, no two ways around it. Cut the double-standard: if someone feels responsible for going out and protesting, why not go the whole way and call out the bad apples on their bullshit?
And I did not discredit anything at all, everyone's free to do whatever they want - from defending good causes to promoting bad agendas - I am pointing out the inadequacies and incoherence that happened so far (and some of those are stopping, gladly).
Maintenance
Member
C'mon people, you're being unfair. It is not like there are people pro-government that said they should bring out the guns against those that were anti-government. It is not like the leaders of pro-government movements said that they should beat people. It is not like there are people pro-government said that "now it is war".
Nah, they obviously know how to remove people like that.
If you refuse to protest corruption because there are other fringe views present, are you then consenting by omission to corruption? Your logic is absurd.
You absolutely are trying to discredit the protest. By saying that they are consenting to a return to a dictatorship, you are obviously dismissing the protest as anti-democracy. It's a clear, simple implication of your "consent by omission" logic.
If by reading what I wrote all you understood was "refusing to protest" (which I didn't) and assuming that highlighting the absurdity of not rooting out the bad apples AUTOMATICALLY EQUALS the whole protest of being anti-democracy, I think I'm done discussing this with you.
Or participating in this thread, for that matter. Cheers.
Jesus, do you not understand the concept of showing the absurdity of an argument by pointing out its logical implications?
This is all I did. I did not impute in you a refusal to protest. Read again.
You clearly and directly said that not kicking out people with opposing views from a protest resulted in consent by omission. The logical implication of your statement IS that the whole protest is anti-democracy, by definition, since anti-democracy people were not kicked out, and therefore the other millions of protestors consented by omission to the return of the military.
You are done discussing this with me because I clearly and concisely pointed out that your argument was not logical.
And one of our presidencial candidates (although a pretty insignificant one) also didn't claim that, to the conservatives, "a good wall, a good gun, a good bullet, a good shovel and a good grave".
No, he didn't.
AcademicSaucer
Member
I sincerely hope Brazil can get rid of the XXI century left, that poison has corrupted our countries for too long now.
Which demands? Cut all aid for the poor? End "communism"? Give the keys of the country to Bolsonaro or the military? Or take away the labor rights of household maids so they get cheaper again?
lol, this weak-ass straw man won't work here, friend.
Put it in a low resolution jpg and post on Facebook.
lol
I lean left and I say you are ignoring a lot of valid criticisms and demands. Please think a little more thoroughly before posting this kind of incendiary bullshit.
Politicians are expecting Dilma impeachment cools the Lava Jato operation so they don't get to the big fish
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