Fox Mulder
Member
Lol, what fantasy land do you live in.
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LAT: California faces a looming teacher shortage, and the problem is getting worse
- Thread starter Tripon
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Lol, what fantasy land do you live in.
Did you read my comment properly? There's no fantasy there.
Karsticles
Member
I had 27 once and it felt like a madhouse. All low level and ELL students, too. 47? Hahahaha, I think I would just walk out the door. That's not even a classroom at that point.
Forerunner
Member
Yeah, teachers have one of the hardest professions in the US. They are underpaid, have too many students, and not enough resources. Thats one job I would never want, at least not in America.
timetokill
Banned
I'd be a teacher if there wasn't so much bullshit involved.
Livingskeletons
If I pulled that off, would you die?
I was thinking about becoming a teacher a couple years back.
Decided going into a trade was probably more lucrative and less stressful.
Decided going into a trade was probably more lucrative and less stressful.
Lazy vs Crazy
Member
Starting teacher pay in California is north of 40k for 9 months of work with excellent benefits. It is not a bad paying job.
Team Alucard
Banned
If you work for a public school.
Teachers at charter and private schools make on average 20% less and have none of the benefits and job security.
I work for a charter school. Starting out, the pay is similar to public school districts (the biggest district we compare to is Los Angeles Unified School District), its after around year 5-6 that the pay differences become obvious. I have really good health benefits, dental and vision, and I don't pay any of it.
It's true I don't have tenure, but I also work in a high need area so I know I won't get fired unless I totally fuck up.
BTW, Charters schools are public schools. Our funds come directly from the state, charter schools in (California, at least) have to be under the umbrella of either the local school district, The county, or the state of California. We're under their regulations, and we have to follow their rules. We still have to teach California standards, and we have to follow the rules and regulations that are demanded by the state of California.
Charters are basically independent contractors instead of running directly under a school district. But that doesn't mean charter schools are private entities.
Most of California is expensive as hell. A dollar is not a dollar is very large portions of the state - 40K is not a living wage.
Just imagine teaching 75 students in one classroom with certain kids being almost my age (26). The joys of teaching in rural South Africa.
I love the education field, but I'm going down school psychology for my career rather than teaching. Harsh life.
Little Green Yoda
Member
I usually do supply/casual relief teaching but I accepted a 6 and half week contract and I've already had enough of it. The kids, for the most part, are fine and the class size is reasonable at 23. However, the planning is maddening; all our allocated planning time is wasted by the anal deputy headteachers lecturing us about new requirements and we're literally teaching to the test in literacy and maths despite the SATS being in May! We are also constantly monitored, I feel like I have no agency even though I am responsible for for planning, teaching and assessing in my classroom. Christmas can't come sooner.
I've been preparing to head into the world of teaching in LA. The bureaucracy, politics, and pressures of standardized testing seem like the most daunting elements, more than handling students. I really hope I don't dive in and then become one of those statistics that feels the need to bail after a couple years.
It's a statement on values. IE: education is more important than it's valued at by society and athleticism is less important than it is valued at.
ReadingRambo
Member
It's basically what we do now except we (the teachers) are the video and the "quiz" is their state mandated test.
ReadingRambo
Member
9 months of work eh?
Bootstraps.
Risible
Member
I would never encourage someone to go into teaching.
Every motherfucker on the planet has an opinion on teachers and rarely is it good. I can't tell you how many times I've heard FROM MY OWN FAMILY how easy teachers have it and how teachers are overpaid.
In N.Y. you need a Masters in teaching as well as a 4 year degree to teach. All to get a job that people look down on and you get shit on from every angle.
Best decision I ever made was to leave teaching high school.
Every motherfucker on the planet has an opinion on teachers and rarely is it good. I can't tell you how many times I've heard FROM MY OWN FAMILY how easy teachers have it and how teachers are overpaid.
In N.Y. you need a Masters in teaching as well as a 4 year degree to teach. All to get a job that people look down on and you get shit on from every angle.
Best decision I ever made was to leave teaching high school.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I've been teaching for over a decade, and I tell all of my students and my own children:
Don't become a teacher. It isn't worth it.
Not just because of pay. As others have stated, the attitude toward teachers in this country has turned toxic. Every single thing is blamed on teachers by parents. Republicans are in control of the country and apparently think public education is the worst thing ever, so it's only going to get worse.
I'm now left scrambling to figure out what job I could get outside of this profession because I know it's going to be terrible over the next decade.
Don't become a teacher. It isn't worth it.
Not just because of pay. As others have stated, the attitude toward teachers in this country has turned toxic. Every single thing is blamed on teachers by parents. Republicans are in control of the country and apparently think public education is the worst thing ever, so it's only going to get worse.
I'm now left scrambling to figure out what job I could get outside of this profession because I know it's going to be terrible over the next decade.
SoRuffShoNuff
Member
It has nothing to do with values and everything about supply and demand.
modernlifeisANDY
Member
Haha okay. Anyone that says teachers are paid enough for "9 months of work" has never taught.
I majored in Education until I reached my student teaching and realized it was not the profession for me. I hated many of the aspects of it that most of you have already reported.
What is funny about this though is that I made a career change to HR, and after just 2 years of experience I am making as much money a year as most teachers in Florida make after 15 years on the job.
What is funny about this though is that I made a career change to HR, and after just 2 years of experience I am making as much money a year as most teachers in Florida make after 15 years on the job.
quackamole
Member
In this case it is basically the same thing. People don't care about the edication of children so nobody wants to pay for it, thus lowering its demand.
This is completely opposite from some other places like Asia where every parent want good education for their children and demand them do good at school. And their teachers are paid like super stars.
Went through student teaching twice, which I rather not divulge, but reached the same understanding for teaching. I did not hate teaching, however, but I did not share the same passion that allowed other teachers to do their profession everyday. I attempted to discover or grow that passion to teach kids, but it never reached fruition.
While the conditions teachers face were secondary for my decision, I still have the utmost respect for those still in the profession. A few years subbing in Santa Ana will influence that decision. Despite my career change, I will support teachers through covering their classes when given the opportunity.
I'm on my fifth year of teaching, have one more on this contact. Then I have to decide to either find a new place to teach (I teach overseas) or find a new profession all together. Despite my school not suffering many of the issues found in schools in the US (we are an IB world school that doesn't teach to a test), it's still an incredibly stressful job that makes me feel like I'm losing my fucking mind sometimes. There are times when I feel completely backed into a corner and without support as everyone does their best to undermine or attack me. Other times I feel like I have my shit together and we are one big family and I'm changing the world by educating our future.
And that's the thing. I spend more time with these kids than their parents do. I am responsible not just for boring shit like teaching them how to do fractions. I spend much more time teaching them how to resolve conflict, speak respectfully, work with others, trust people, prioritize, have pride in their work and themselves, be confident, be kind, love each other, and just be decent human beings in general. With that much responsibility placed on us, why are you packing our classrooms with more students than I could possibly hope to help, while paying me shit and telling me I don't deserve to complain because you think a long summer break makes up for it all?
All these issues start at the top, with people from a different generation who haven't seen a classroom in 40 years making decisions for children who won't ever touch a pencil when they grow into adults because technology is moving so quickly. People who are more interested in getting into bed with educational companies who try to sell useless generic overpriced workbooks and resources. Instead of spending it on actual hands on, useful, everyday items that could make a classroom a place of exploration and inquiry. People like the new Secretary of education who thinks of education as a business and not the most vital fucking institution in the nation that can make or break a civilization.
And that's the thing. I spend more time with these kids than their parents do. I am responsible not just for boring shit like teaching them how to do fractions. I spend much more time teaching them how to resolve conflict, speak respectfully, work with others, trust people, prioritize, have pride in their work and themselves, be confident, be kind, love each other, and just be decent human beings in general. With that much responsibility placed on us, why are you packing our classrooms with more students than I could possibly hope to help, while paying me shit and telling me I don't deserve to complain because you think a long summer break makes up for it all?
All these issues start at the top, with people from a different generation who haven't seen a classroom in 40 years making decisions for children who won't ever touch a pencil when they grow into adults because technology is moving so quickly. People who are more interested in getting into bed with educational companies who try to sell useless generic overpriced workbooks and resources. Instead of spending it on actual hands on, useful, everyday items that could make a classroom a place of exploration and inquiry. People like the new Secretary of education who thinks of education as a business and not the most vital fucking institution in the nation that can make or break a civilization.
New York state had a program where people with specialized skills but without education degrees could become teachers.
It's been a while since I investigated the program, so I couldn't give you any specifics. And I'm sure this isn't unique to New York.
Oh, a quick search revealed this: http://www.highered.nysed.gov/ocue/spr/AlternativeTeacherCertificationProgram.htm
yep fucking kindergarden teachers get 90K a year
Can Crusher
Banned
Somebody come up with a big TV hit show about professors stat.
I've wanted to become a teacher, but I've always been daunted by the costs to become one and the stress that the world places on them. I'm a bit too thin-skinned, I fear. And it's difficult to get into a decent school district, and the rest don't seem to be worth the trouble. My options are to drop serious money for an education degree or go to the public school super district where they just need warm bodies, but I live in Memphis, TN, so I dont think I can handle that.
Pay them more, but as stated, parents need to be more involved. Growing up, my parents had no involvement in what went on in school for me. They showed up for parent/teacher conferences and disciplined me around report card/progress report time, but never did they bother to engage in my studies or helped coach me. They always claimed it was the teachers job to teach and my job to learn, end of story.
Growing up this way, I absolutely hated it and want better for my kids. My daughter is going to private kinder so I can make sure she gets a great jump start and we're going to decide if we want to keep her in private school or public after she finishes. At least 2-3 times a week, I discuss her progress with her teacher and ask what we can do to continue the education at home. This is one of the things parents forget to do, they make sure homework is done, but don't enforce the teachings applied at school. Since I've aligned with the teacher, my daughter has a more consistent behavior pattern and doesn't go through confusion as to why it's ok to do things in one environment and not the other.
Growing up this way, I absolutely hated it and want better for my kids. My daughter is going to private kinder so I can make sure she gets a great jump start and we're going to decide if we want to keep her in private school or public after she finishes. At least 2-3 times a week, I discuss her progress with her teacher and ask what we can do to continue the education at home. This is one of the things parents forget to do, they make sure homework is done, but don't enforce the teachings applied at school. Since I've aligned with the teacher, my daughter has a more consistent behavior pattern and doesn't go through confusion as to why it's ok to do things in one environment and not the other.
Lazy vs Crazy
Member
Well, I din't say they were paid enough, I said it isn't a bad paying job, those are different things. Teachers get about two months off int he summer (yeah yeah lesson planning, after you've been at it a few years you just have to tweak). Then you get three one week vacations during the school year and more holidays than most workers get.
Should teachers be paid more? Sure, but we can't pretend a 40k starting salary with more time off than most other jobs offer is bad. There are huge wage issues across a lot if industries in this country, and lots of people are underpaid, it isn't just teachers. Teachers are better off than a lot of people. Of the people I know that went to college, teachers are the profession most likely to actually own a home and have kids. Most people just can't afford that lifestyle either due to financial or time constraints.
The plus side of Teach for America is if you can survive it, you've probably confronted the worst the education system will throw at you. Probably.
Team Alucard
Banned
68% of Public School teachers belong to a union.
7% of Charter School teachers do.
The entire purpose of Charter Schools is to bust unions. Its transparent as hell.
Thanks Bill Gates!
It's hardly limited to California, it's true in basically the entire country. Our education system is collapsing around us and we barely are even noticing.
If there's one thing the most recent election should tell us, it's that unions are dead in this country.
If there's one thing the most recent election should tell us, it's that unions are dead in this country.
echoshifting
Banned
I don't want to distract too much from the OP and the very serious, systemic problems this discussion is about. I just wanted to say your local schools are probably places where you can make a very big difference with a very small volunteering commitment. Some volunteering positions only require a couple of hours a month, and you could end up doing something like bringing a monthly art class to a classroom with no art classes, or with a weekly commitment of an hour you could grade the homework for a whole classroom for a teacher who simply doesn't have the time to do it, or keep the library open for two classes of students who otherwise would not get library time.
You don't need experience, or credentials (you will have to pass a background check), you don't need to have a kid in the school (at least not in my experience, perhaps it's different in some places), it doesn't take much time and it's very rewarding, even if you end up doing something super mundane like putting stamps on first grade math homework. Worth looking into if you want to volunteer somewhere and you don't have much time or you can't travel far. I only have experience at the elementary level so far but I look forward to it every week.
Edit: also, for those who want to be teachers: you might want to check and see if state law or local teaching certification programs require experience with classroom environments and a recommendation from the school. In the places I have lived, I have been told that volunteering for an hour a week for one school year should satisfy this requirement.
You don't need experience, or credentials (you will have to pass a background check), you don't need to have a kid in the school (at least not in my experience, perhaps it's different in some places), it doesn't take much time and it's very rewarding, even if you end up doing something super mundane like putting stamps on first grade math homework. Worth looking into if you want to volunteer somewhere and you don't have much time or you can't travel far. I only have experience at the elementary level so far but I look forward to it every week.
Edit: also, for those who want to be teachers: you might want to check and see if state law or local teaching certification programs require experience with classroom environments and a recommendation from the school. In the places I have lived, I have been told that volunteering for an hour a week for one school year should satisfy this requirement.
TheLaughingStock
Member
Lol you think folks in charge are smart enough to solve a labor shortage with higher wages? Please.
Dylan Sexbang
Banned
I actually want to go back to school to become qualified to teach and hopefully end up back in California, preferably in my home town. Is this at all feasible for a 23 year old? Hopefully by the time I got out of education, maybe the education system could see some reform?
Leeroy3101
Banned
Neither party seems interested in addressing the needs, and would rather farm everything out to charter "choice" ideas.
Who do they consult to do this? People who lack any sort of knowledge about educating children. Obama's just as guilty of this as Trump will be.
Dr. Zoidberg
Member
My wife teaches elementary age kids, and she can't wait to retire. In fact, every teacher friend of hers I know is zeroed-in on that retirement date and doesn't want to work a day past it. Some of them change jobs before they get there. It's not so much about pay (the cost of living is fairly low here) but all of the bullshit they have to put up with. All the changing standards, the politics, the parents that are either non-caring or overprotective, the kids who spout the worst things imaginable because they have unfiltered access to media and the Internet and yet think they are God's gift to creation, etc. Not to mention the threats of violence. My wife loves her kids, and tries to do right by them, but it's a tough job. It takes a special kind of person to stay in that stressful environment or want to go there.
My point is that there is a cultural problem here, and it's not JUST money.
My point is that there is a cultural problem here, and it's not JUST money.
I really feel for teachers. Everything is their fault. All the responsibility shifts solely on them even though that thought-process is not rooted in reality. They have stupidly high expectations to meet and with little to no support from any fucking thing. Oh, and the pay sucks.
I am very empathetic to them. They wonder why no-one wants to do it.
I am very empathetic to them. They wonder why no-one wants to do it.
The Albatross
Member
I do have to take issue with the repeated mantra in this thread about how "the pay sucks." The average teacher salary in California is almost $70,000/year. Now, that's not the starting salary (just over $40,000/year), but that's a competitive salary, especially for a position that -- yes -- has more paid time off than any other full time positions. If you average out the extra 60 or so days a year that the average teacher is not at work, that would bump up to over $80,000/year, which I think most would consider is a fairly competitive salary. We're lucky, we live in the second highest teacher salary in the country ($72,000), but it also makes the demand for the positions particularly high.
There is some fantasy there, it's incredibly expensive and difficult in low-income areas. Most education revenue comes from local real estate taxes, and for schools that primarily serve in areas with high public housing and low real estate prices, revenue is difficult to raise for schools adequate to the number of students.
The federal government has stepped in with funding, but both with Pres. Obama and Pres. Bush, that funding is typically tied to something like No Child Left Behind and Common Core, federal education programs that try to implement a standard in curriculum and implement some element of testing to measure results. Teachers advocacy groups, in general, have been strongly against "the stick" in those programs, but do need the money that goes along with them.
My wife is a teacher at an inner city high school in Massachusetts, which is probably the most friendly state in the country for teachers. High pay, good benefits, good work/life balance, large but not too large classrooms. Naturally, the result is that we have too many teachers and not enough jobs to employ them.
Depends on the state but usually, yes. If you need certification/licensure you can usually get those at your local state or community college, if you have a bachelor's degree already. Many districts (dependign on the state) allow you to be a long-term sub or take some other role while getting your certification paid for. My wife is in a Masters program with the state pays for, though she's had her initial licensure.
There is some fantasy there, it's incredibly expensive and difficult in low-income areas. Most education revenue comes from local real estate taxes, and for schools that primarily serve in areas with high public housing and low real estate prices, revenue is difficult to raise for schools adequate to the number of students.
The federal government has stepped in with funding, but both with Pres. Obama and Pres. Bush, that funding is typically tied to something like No Child Left Behind and Common Core, federal education programs that try to implement a standard in curriculum and implement some element of testing to measure results. Teachers advocacy groups, in general, have been strongly against "the stick" in those programs, but do need the money that goes along with them.
My wife is a teacher at an inner city high school in Massachusetts, which is probably the most friendly state in the country for teachers. High pay, good benefits, good work/life balance, large but not too large classrooms. Naturally, the result is that we have too many teachers and not enough jobs to employ them.
Depends on the state but usually, yes. If you need certification/licensure you can usually get those at your local state or community college, if you have a bachelor's degree already. Many districts (dependign on the state) allow you to be a long-term sub or take some other role while getting your certification paid for. My wife is in a Masters program with the state pays for, though she's had her initial licensure.
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