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Late Night Wars - Conan's last Tonight Show was TONIGHT a long time ago

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Sanjuro Tsubaki said:
Because the number one network for prime time programing would NEVER think find a solution to synchronize the news broadcasts in order to deliver more FOX branded programming?
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Fox does not control the affiliates, and many fox affiliates jumped to Fox in the 90s BECAUSE Fox only had 2 hours of programming a day. Syndicated shows/local programming are extremely profitable for the affiliates.

Jay Leno isn't on at 9:00 anymore because it was hurting the affiliates local news. I.E. where the money is for affiliates.

Ceres said:
According to Kevin Reilly, Fox has it in the contracts with the affiliates that they're allowed to add a talk show. He also stated that they have to consider the tough year that the affiliates have had though.
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As I said earlier in this thread, Fox may have put this in their contracts which would be a good solution. However, the affiliates will still kick and scream about it.

Even if they get over those hurdles, Conan would have an issue with having no steady lead in. If you think Leno is a bad lead in, imagine a hodge podge of local news, Simpsons reruns or whatever else is carried across the country on Fox.
 
quadriplegicjon said:
:lol you seriously think his manager hid it from Leno? Leno playing oblivious to all this shit is just garbage at this point.
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Thats according to the news reporter. So if you think that part of the story is not credible, then none of it is credible.
 
Also, this is bullshit. I want some guest to go on the Jay Leno show and have the stones to say "Jay why are you breaking your word"?
Will not watch Leno ever again. Even if Buckethead is on with Scarlett Johansson stripping in the foreground.

PS: Fox sucks. I'd rather see him go to Comedy Central than that black hole of creativity.
 
Undeux said:
I agree. I feel much worse for his crew and the people behind the scenes than I do for Conan. He's gonna make it out of this fine.
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Yeah. I watch Conan; not much of a Leno fan (with the exception of the car stuff). But ultimately don't care.

It's the crews who may suffer for all of Zucker's shenanigans. If I'm going to spare any emotion to this, it would be to them and their families.
 
Gamer @ Heart said:
I keep hearing it mention, the most recent being on stern. Did conan really demand the tonight show from nbc?
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From what I have read (can't find links at the moment) around 2004NBC's contract with Conan was about to expire and they didn't want to lose him to another network, so they promised The Tonight Show to him in 2009, figuring they could push Leno out. Leno agreed then, but changed his mind last year and so NBC created the Leno Show (because they didn't want to lose him either).
 
StoOgE said:
Fox does not control the affiliates, and many fox affiliates jumped to Fox in the 90s BECAUSE Fox only had 2 hours of programming a day. Syndicated shows/local programming are extremely profitable for the affiliates.

Jay Leno isn't on at 9:00 anymore because it was hurting the affiliates local news. I.E. where the money is for affiliates.
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You are acting like it isn't a possibility. This isn't FOX in the 90's and they do have control on their affiliates. FOX branded programing around the clock is something they have been wanting for some time now. They have an opportunity to seriously explore options now. In the end it could be a gamble, but it makes the brand as a whole look much more professional.

They may not be happy, but FOX is going to do what they need to do to ensure the affiliates meet their standard. Simple as that.
 
I haven't seen the info posted but are any of the other networks in L.A. ?

That may sway Conans decision IF he were offered a few deals.
 
el jacko said:
From what I have read (can't find links at the moment) around 2004NBC's contract with Conan was about to expire and they didn't want to lose him to another network, so they promised The Tonight Show to him in 2009, figuring they could push Leno out. Leno agreed then, but changed his mind last year and so NBC created the Leno Show (because they didn't want to lose him either).
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ABC was going hard for Conan and Letterman at that point in time and were willing to end Nightline and start running one of those two at 10:30.
 
Darkhorse (not basing this on any fact just throwing it out there): CBS (and maybe Letterman's company) hires Conan to do a Saturday Night sketch show to take on SNL and maybe to keep Conan in the fold to eventually take over for Dave.
 
I don't see how this is Leno's fault. NBC breached his contract, and obviously they are more likely to appease him over Conan since his contract is worth a lot more. You guys make this sound like it's a conspiracy or something. Leno wants a show, NBC wants to keep him, that doesn't mean he should retire. Leno's show isn't much different than it used to be, so the fact that it bombed when an hour later it would be number 1 was probably due to NBC's incompetence and marketing.

NBC thinks that they can magically fix this by restoring Leno, and pushing Conan (or whose ever last in line) out. They figure it'll propagate down the line and everything will be like it was. I doubt that will work, but I don't think Jay wanted his new show canceled after only 4 months just to go back to his old job. He may get the better deal in the end but that's because he has the strongest negotiating leverage.

He's not gunning for Conan's job. NBC wants to put him there and I don't blame him for not walking out when he has good contracts regardless of whether I like Conan more or this he is more deserving. These are huge business deals with 10s of millions of dollars at stake, not the arena for a few internet idealists.
 
Somnid said:
I don't see how this is Leno's fault.

These are huge business deals with 10s of millions of dollars at stake, not the arena for a few internet idealists.
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JOEL.jpg
 
Kronotech said:
I haven't seen the info posted but are any of the other networks in L.A. ?

That may sway Conans decision IF he were offered a few deals.
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All the networks are in LA. It's Hollywood, dude. Everything TV/movie-based has some stuff in LA.

Plus, NBC built the Tonight Show studio just for Conan. It wouldn't be entirely impossible for another network to build him a studio again, if they'd have to.
 
Somnid said:
I don't see how this is Leno's fault.
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It's not completely his fault, but he's not innocent. He stole it from Letterman, he never allows guest hosts, and he chose to do a really bland show at 10:00 which takes away lots of popular guests and kills the ratings that a lead in popular prime time show would have for local news and Conan.
 
Somnid said:
I don't see how this is Leno's fault. NBC breached his contract, and obviously they are more likely to appease him over Conan since his contract is worth a lot more. You guys make this sound like it's a conspiracy or something. Leno wants a show, NBC wants to keep him, that doesn't mean he should retire. Leno's show isn't much different than it used to be, so the fact that it bombed when an hour later it would be number 1 was probably due to NBC's incompetence and marketing.

NBC thinks that they can magically fix this by restoring Leno, and pushing Conan (or whose ever last in line) out. They figure it'll propagate down the line and everything will be like it was. I doubt that will work, but I don't think Jay wanted his new show canceled after only 4 months just to go back to his old job. He may get the better deal in the end but that's because he has the strongest negotiating leverage.

He's not gunning for Conan's job. NBC wants to put him there and I don't blame him for not walking out when he has good contracts regardless of whether I like Conan more or this he is more deserving. These are huge business deals with 10s of millions of dollars at stake, not the arena for a few internet idealists.
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Leno agreed to retire when Conan got his new contract. Then he changed his mind and wanted to keep the Tonight Show. Now he is running Conan off.

He did the same thing in 1992 and stole the show from Letterman who had a contract ensuring he had the tonight show.
 
Blader5489 said:
Listening to old Stern shows on youtube, I didn't know he hated Carson too :lol
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He always felt Carson was a jerk. Especially that if-you-do-well-then-you-can-sit-on-my-couch thing.
 
Sorry to say, but all this "I'm not gonna watch NBC except for my favorite shows" is such a bunch of hoopla. You are basically saying you aren't changing your viewing habits at all.

Also, if you do decide to boycott NBC by not watching shows you actually like, you might help get those shows canceled which would put (next to Conan) other people you appreciate out of their jobs.

And lastly: a boycott won't work anyway. Only a small fraction of the public are even aware of this whole issue, and only a part of that small fraction would really boycott NBC over their decisions. After two months, when Leno is back in seat and Conan does his thing somewhere else there's absolutely no-one who'll keep thinking rat-bastards-I'm-not-gonna-watch when they hear the word NBC. If NBC's rating remain in the gutter, it'll simply be because their shows suck, not because of this whole ordeal still being in the back of people's minds.
 
I'm no fan of Leno and Conan is clearly getting screwed here but I don't see where all the rage is coming from. Better shows have been cancelled for less. TV is a business. Sure the NBC execs are probably making a bad decision but I don't feel bad for Conan. He's had a national TV show for over 15 years. I'm sure he'll do good things in the future too. People wanting to boycott all of NBC and kill Leno? Yikes.
 
Ninja Scooter said:
Darkhorse (not basing this on any fact just throwing it out there): CBS (and maybe Letterman's company) hires Conan to do a Saturday Night sketch show to take on SNL and maybe to keep Conan in the fold to eventually take over for Dave.
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Conan has a history and a tight connection to SNL. No way Conan would do anything to hurt them, or anyone else on NBC cept for the people doing this.
 
Somnid said:
I don't see how this is Leno's fault.
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There's a thing called "passing the torch".

Leno's pride is the only thing keeping him on TV. Does anyone want Leno?
Not really. It's just holding on and dragging the show down with him. He should just go back to standup and get some respect back.

But instead of saying "no...fuck you...it's Conan's now" I guarantee he had a hand in getting Conan out and himself back in. His drama with Letterman back in the day hardly inspires anyone to give him the benefit of the doubt.
 
Agent Unknown said:
Of course Conan is worried about them too. It's no doubt what he meant when he said "I have a family to feed."
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Yeah, I have no doubt about that. I think the writer's strike showed that he'll do what he can. But still, they're the ones who are really at risk when they lose this job.
 
I would hate NBC more if not for 30 Rock, Parks etc...the station was my fav with their old and current Thursday lineups. This Zucker character seems like an idiot though.
 
I wonder how NBC will be able to prevent Leno's future Tonight Show audiences from turning on him. Some Conan supporters will obviously make their way into tapings and either boo or something worse.
 
Undeux said:
Yeah, I have no doubt about that. I think the writer's strike showed that he'll do what he can. But still, they're the ones who are really at risk when they lose this job.
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Absolutely. And that's partly why Conan said "nobody should feel sympathy for me/I'm incredibly lucky" in his statement.
 
Why does everyone hate Leno? Isn't this decision by NBC? He was simply hosting his show and NBC didn't like Conan's Ratings, so they are moving Leno back. I don't see where the Leno hate is coming from in terms of him trying to steal conan's show. Like or don't like his jokes, I don't care, but this hate based on that he is stabbing Conan in the back? Blame NBC.
 
I don't agree with a previous poster that cable would be a step down for Conan. Landing at Comedy Central or FX would be a great fit, IMO. (And you think Stewart or Colbert are complaining or wating to go network at this point?) He may not have the same budget as the Tonight Show, but he could probably make that work - hell, he did it on Late Night for years.

That said, if any network goes after him, it will be Fox over ABC. Even during all this late-night mess, ABC still has a total viewers lead with Nightline (helped no doubt by the earthquake in Haiti). It will just be a matter of Fox getting an acceptable number of affiliates clearing a Conan show at 11/10c.

Maybe that's why a stop at FX would be good at first: keeps Conan on the air, and in the Fox group, so the network has enough time to get the affilates in line.

If that doesn't work out, what's to say Letterman doesn't pull a Carson (Johnny that is) and have Conan guest host Friday nights, with the possibility down the road of taking over the Late Show? (That entails that Letterman still does 4 shows a week, which he used to.)
 
criesofthepast said:
I'm kind of surprised a lot of people are mentioning FOX as if it's so much better than NBC. Arrested Development, GAF. NEVER FORGET!!
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Believe it or not, Fox treated Arrested Development better than most networks would (especially Fox :lol ).
 
Its horrible that his staff, who moved across the country to help produce a show many of us love might be jobless now. NBC better give some sort of severance package to the crew.

I remember I was ecstatic when he first came to LA, knowing I could finally go to a taping of his show.

Luckily I got in, it was only the 3rd or 4th week since he moved here and I had a blast. It's too bad I might not get another chance to go.
 
ShOcKwAvE said:
I wonder how NBC will be able to prevent Leno's future Tonight Show audiences from turning on him. Some Conan supporters will obviously make their way into tapings and either boo or something worse.
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I can think of worse ways to spend an afternoon in LA. (Booing, I mean. I'm not going to Gilooly the dude.)
 
Synth_floyd said:
Better shows have been cancelled for less.
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Like this:
Wikipedia said:
ABC announced the cancellation of Police Squad! after four of its six episodes had aired in March 1982. The final two episodes were aired that summer. According to then-ABC entertainment president Tony Thomopoulos (on Entertainment Tonight), "Police Squad! was cancelled because the viewer had to watch it in order to appreciate it."[citation needed] What Thomopoulos meant was that the viewer had to actually pay close attention to the show in order to get much of the humor, while most other TV shows did not demand as much effort from the viewer.[original research?] In its annual "Cheers and Jeers" issue, TV Guide magazine called the explanation for the cancellation "the most stupid reason a network ever gave for ending a series."[citation needed]
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_Squad!
 
Aesius said:
I think Conan will be fine. If anything, he will be tapped as Letterman's replacement in 5-10 years. In the meantime, he'll find a place on television. Maybe not late night, but a place nonetheless.
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Agreed. I've been saying it since last week this should happen. I have my concerns about a jump to Fox if it is even possible as most negotiation seem to center around Conan being on a hiring freeze which I think is fine since it may coincide with Letterman retiring.

However, Conan would have to chill during that time which may not be that long. Letterman also could not promise him the job to avoid the same issues that are going on now. Conan would have to go on faith with Letterman since I don't see him as a planner.
 
quadriplegicjon said:
You are understanding it wrong. The Tonight Show under Johnny Carson had guest host every Monday since forever. Joan Rivers was a 'permanent' guest host till she got fired for accepting a competing show on Fox. Hell, Jay Leno was also a 'permanent' guest host.... Rosie was hired as a guest host as well... but Leno decided to put a stop to that. I think it's quite clear that he was incredibly paranoid that the shenanigans he pulled on Johnny Carson, might be pulled on himself.. No more guest host allowed!
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That was Johnny's prerogative to have weekly guest hosts. No other modern late night talk show host has ever did the same. She felt like it was her right to host. To top it off she admits Leno called her back to apologize & make amends when he fond out how she felt, but she just snapped back at him.

Not a surprising attitude from her considering all the bad things her staff, friends & employees said about here after her daytime show ended.


StoOgE said:
Fox and ABC have real problems controlling their affiliates.

ABC doesn't have Kimmel on in all markets at reasonable hours (he is on against Carson Daley here). Plus, Nightline is a long standing program. It's the reason Letterman stayed with CBS. He didn't want to screw Ted Koppel over. Conan would be unlikely to do the same thing to two other people (Koppel and Kimmel).
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:lol Koppel has been off the air for years now! The current host (I think) is that douchebag who did that Michale Jackson special a few years back. Where they intentionally edited clips to make Jackson look bad for the ratings.

In fact even when Koppel was on, ABC had no qualms canceling his show for a new Late Night show. I think it was right before Kimmel was on, there was a huge controversy about this & Koppel was pretty pissed at ABC for it.
 
I wonder if Conan knew about Leno's deal yesterday. He seemed to went for both NBC and Leno whereas the other nights were all about NBC.
 
Kibbles said:
Why does everyone hate Leno? Isn't this decision by NBC? He was simply hosting his show and NBC didn't like Conan's Ratings, so they are moving Leno back. I don't see where the Leno hate is coming from in terms of him trying to steal conan's show. Like or don't like his jokes, I don't care, but this hate based on that he is stabbing Conan in the back? Blame NBC.
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It was Leno who had the bad ratings. That's why they wanted to move him to 11:35pm and bump TTS to 12:05am. All Leno had to do was say that he didn't want to do his show at that time and fuck Conan around and all would be apples. Now it looks like Conan is finished with NBC and Leno will get TTS back.

Hell, I'm in Australia and I know what's going on.
 
SpectreFire said:
Why can't Comcast step in and fire Zucker's fat dumbass ass?
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They don't own the company yet, but it's coming. I think GE (The current owners) would have fired him anyway. They were just waiting for Leno as his last hope.

It's also not unusual to hold onto staff until the new guys come in to avoid any stir-ups...which is exactkly what this is, so he can't even do that right :lol .
 
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